I wasn't sure he was going to bury us when he was hired...but I damn sure knew we were in serious trouble after his bump class.
We got another commitment today
- Thread starter Gator22222
- Start date
You guys have some very, very highly regarded recruiters on this staff....but they don't seem to carry the energy to Florida that they had in their previous stops.
Florida got absolutely annihilated in the I4 corridor (Brooksville to Sarasota along i 4 to St Augustine to Palm Bay)...that is their bread and butter, and has made the bulk of their classes since I have been following recruiting. Historically, Florida has had the pick of the litter in these areas and everyone else got the leftovers with a few exceptions here and there. They let other schools rape and pillage this area last year. I have never Florida beaten this bad in this area, even when Florida was struggling..end of story...look no further.
Yea, but you said that the Meyer offense got better and the Mac offense did not. It was almost as if you did not consider the change at QB
Obviously. Again who is arguing they're remotely the same caliber? You guys have the weirdest habit of arguing things nobody is attempting to argue.
The first point was my thought too. We have never seen Harris in a read option. What makes us think he was capable, when he could not make good decisions in the pass offense.
Plus, Harris could not complete passes against ir.
Nope. I said Meyer's team got better and highlighted how they won 4 of the last 5, you guys brought up the offense initially. One of the underrated aspects of Meyer was his attention to detail on special teams and defense, the special teams he coached himself. Even giving Mac a pass for the offense the other areas of the team regressed just as much. I feel like we at least have a credible kicker now, but I wanna see how all our other special teams units improve as well. Same with some of our alignment issues on defense (mostly a Collins issue against the run).
Harris was an above average runner his freshman year. 3rd leading rusher on the team IIRC with more than a few big runs.
One thing to keep in mind is Mac stated publicly that they limited called runs for Harris and told him to stay in the pocket for fear of him getting injured running because of the backup situation. So idk if all that indecisiveness is on the QB. If ordinarily you'd run but the coach is telling you stay in the pocket then what? All natural instinct goes away. Harris became a head case and didn't know whether to run, pass, or hang in the pocket by the end. I'd say that's part indecisiveness, part o-line, and part coaches orders.
Nope, you did not. Read your own quote.
Here is one;
"Meyer's team got better and better as the year went along, while Mac's team regressed tremendously."
That completely misses the change of QBs that Mac had to face. Hence my question about how Meyer's offense (and by extension team) would have done had Leak went down. I imagine his team would have "regressed" tremendously.
Well, I guess it is the off season, so we will continue to flog this horse. But do you think that Mac had a point regarding injury? In fact, had he put Harris in a position to run more, and had Harris gone down, I suspect most of you guys would be flogging him for that decision. This is what we do.
I submit that even had Mac gone to a more run oriented offense using the legs of the QB, and had Harris stayed healthy, the rest of the season would have probably ended in three losses. We might have looked better. But we still lose to those three teams. Or at least the first two of them.
But this then cycles back to the point that looking so inept on three nationally televised games could have very well contributed to the Mac bump class being what it was, or better yet, what it wasn't.
I have watched two consecutive Saban-ites put 'their system' as a priority to winning/competing. Now I will not suggest that Mac is headed toward a Chump like tenure, but it is concerning to even see similarities.
You nailed it! Yes Meyer's team improved as the year went on but he also didn't have to change QBs mid year or start 3 true freshmen on the Oline either. I will add that in the 10th of Meyer's first season we lost to a bad South Carolina team. Meyer didn't finish the season with as tough as a schedule that Mac had to deal with. FSU of this year was much much better than FSU of 2005. Then Mac played the #1 team in the country in Bama and Michigan was better than that 2005 Iowa team.
I would venture to guess that if Mac had Leak at QB with Caldwell, Chad Jackson, Cornelius Ingram & Dallas Baker at WR then he would have had a much better offense and would have done better than 10-4 as well.
This is going in cycles. Nowhere in that quote did I mention the offense. You yourself admitted you asked the question about Leak, and then the conversation ventured off from there.
Look, obviously missing a starting QB hurts a team. But this again goes back to the argument that one coach would have changed the offense for whatever QB he had. Why are you purposefully ignoring the fact that one of the reasons the offense, and by extension the team, regressed as bad as it did is because Mac made the conscious choice not to make an adjustment for the one viable QB he had? It isn't just about the QB not being there. Why? Because Meyer's team would have regressed with a HEALTHY Leak also had he not decided to make a change.
Why would anyone kill him for doing what it takes to win? Nobody would expect to win with a 3rd string QB. He absolutely had a point about injury, but the funny part about it is QB's actually get more serious injuries standing in the pocket than outside of it. Because they're usually blindsided in the pocket as opposed to being on the perimeter where they can see tacklers coming and protect themselves. If Harris gets hurt while we're emptying the chamber so be it. That bears sitting in a press conference and telling everyone the offense isn't changing and doing the same failed thing week after week. What's the alternative? Be shitty on offense doing something we KNOW won't work just to protect him? Oh wait...
You play to win the games. Saying "well, we probably won't win anyway" as an excuse to not even try to look better is defeatist. I really can't believe people seem to be ok with that or even use it as a reason to justify what we saw. I wouldn't care if we lost by 30 every one of those games if we were making an effort to try something different and by extension trying to win. Plus if we were more competitive in those games putting a better visual product on the field maybe we do better down the stretch in recruiting.
Speculation is endless.
One year is not enough time to draw any kind of conclusions. But I will say this; Mac is nothing like Muschamp. Hell, when he talks, Muschamp makes me cringe even though he is coaching another team.
I agree with that. I have criticized Mac on multiple occasions for not changing the offense.
Whatevers dude. You are making a point that does not change the analysis. Regardless whether you were talking about the offense or the whole team, it is pretty damn clear that you give the 2005 version of Meyer credit for improvment but criticize Mac for not improving. All without considering that the circumstances with the personnel between the two were completely different.
Last edited:
I am not drawing any conclusions. I made a true statement that we have hired two Saban-ites (Chump and Mac) and when circumstances necessitated in their first season both OPENLY declared they would stick with their 'system' as opposed to making whatever adjustments could be made to be the most competitive.
Does anybody really think we would have been any better changing the system to a read option offense with Treon Harris that would have allowed us to win any of the last 3 games? At some point you still have to complete a pass. Harris has always been a very very inaccurate passer. He's at about 50%. That's awful at the college level. He can't throw the ball into the ocean. But I'm not surprised at all. I wasn't a fan of recruiring him as a QB out of high school. Another poor QB recruiting effort by Muschamp.
In the words of Mac, Harris could not complete a pass against air.
Hell, I sat through the whole SECCG and watched him miss open receiver after open receiver. It got to the point where Alabama would not even cover them tight.
Hell, I sat through the whole SECCG and watched him miss open receiver after open receiver. It got to the point where Alabama would not even cover them tight.
Lol, I know most is a few Gators talking in circles and two or three Noles trying to direct how our coaches should recruit....but has a no star JUCO DT ever got to 5 pages for his commitment?
Treon Harris running the read option as a true freshman went into Doak and almost beat a FSU team that broke the NFL draft record, all the while completing less than 50% of his passes. Why? Because the run opens up everything else. Harris was just as bad as a true freshman and yet looked more competent in Roper's offense. The system was the difference. Easier reads, easier passing windows. Who knows if we would have won or not. Both FSU and Bama were one score games for the majority of the game.
Now my point isn't that he'd be some great QB, just that his weaknesses would be minimized in it a lot. There are plenty of QB's playing in similar systems who can't hit the side of a barn. We were a spread team last year anyway, the least we could have done is incorporated some tempo and option elements when we were clearly struggling to throw the ball.
Last edited:
But you are making it only about the QB, which makes no sense. Why did you ignore my point that Meyer's team would have also regressed with a healthy QB if he didn't make a change? His offense was getting worse by the week also. Leak's health wouldn't have made a difference if he continued to do what wasn't working, which is what Mac chose to do health of the QB notwithstanding.
No we aren't. Your paying no attention. The oline and WRs have been brought up numerous times as well about both teams. Did You miss the part about McElwain having to start 3 true freshmen olineman in Ivey, Johnson and Jordan that we have also brought up? Between that and the difference at QB between Leak and Harris is monumental. Oh yea Leak had Chad Jackson, Andre Caldwell, Cornelius Ingram and Dallas Baker to throw the ball too.
The comparisons between the two offensive personnel is not even in the same ball park.
And that same personnel struggled until the coach made a change, you guys keep dancing around that issue. Wonder why?
BTW, you guys serverely overrate the offensive talent Meyer was left with. More than half the starters went undrafted. After year 1, Chad Jackson was the only guy drafted. Our putrid offense from last year alone had 2 guys drafted.
BTW, you guys serverely overrate the offensive talent Meyer was left with. More than half the starters went undrafted. After year 1, Chad Jackson was the only guy drafted. Our putrid offense from last year alone had 2 guys drafted.
Chad Jackson was a far superior WR than Robinson.
And Taylor was much more of a featured back than what we had happen in 2005.
And Taylor was much more of a featured back than what we had happen in 2005.
Drafted is no part of a real or serious discussion on college talent levels. 
~ What a player does in college, means nothing concerning the NFL.
(at least that's what I've seen written here repeatedly)
~ McElwain was hired and is being paid millions to make the football decisions.
His detractors here are getting paid the amount that their criticisms are worth.
His recruiting classes quality depend on things that are internal to his team.
Left with a #90's (rivals) class, he improved to #23 (2 months).
He improved nine more spots to #14 (their opinions) in just over 1 year.
A similar improvement in his 3rd class would put it in the Top 5.
I believe that Top 10 classes (even by the consensus idiots) are good enough to win a NC. Year to year consistency of quality is more important than an occasional Top 3-5 class.
And it takes 4 to 5 years to completely turn over a roster to being the new HBC's team.
So while none of us here 'knows' exactly where they are going, or where they will end up, I'm liking Mc-staffs first 10 win season and the beginnings that they have made in building and forming an entirely new team.
And the best thing about all of this (to me) is that nothing that any of the trolls, haters, or the doom & gloomers whine and snivel about is going to make even the least bit of difference concerning Mc-staffs long term Gator success.
~ What a player does in college, means nothing concerning the NFL.
(at least that's what I've seen written here repeatedly)
~ McElwain was hired and is being paid millions to make the football decisions.
His detractors here are getting paid the amount that their criticisms are worth.
His recruiting classes quality depend on things that are internal to his team.
Left with a #90's (rivals) class, he improved to #23 (2 months).
He improved nine more spots to #14 (their opinions) in just over 1 year.
A similar improvement in his 3rd class would put it in the Top 5.
I believe that Top 10 classes (even by the consensus idiots) are good enough to win a NC. Year to year consistency of quality is more important than an occasional Top 3-5 class.
And it takes 4 to 5 years to completely turn over a roster to being the new HBC's team.
So while none of us here 'knows' exactly where they are going, or where they will end up, I'm liking Mc-staffs first 10 win season and the beginnings that they have made in building and forming an entirely new team.
And the best thing about all of this (to me) is that nothing that any of the trolls, haters, or the doom & gloomers whine and snivel about is going to make even the least bit of difference concerning Mc-staffs long term Gator success.
It's funny watching people try to have a conversation with Oozie.
He's just going to keep telling you that you're wrong until he wears you down. Even when speculating about what may have happened if circumstances were changed Oozie is the only one with a valid opinion.
He's just going to keep telling you that you're wrong until he wears you down. Even when speculating about what may have happened if circumstances were changed Oozie is the only one with a valid opinion.
K.
Please provide us with more brilliant commentary about how Meyer changed nothing to his offense. Can't wait to hear more about your vaunted 'eye test'. Yea when you've proven you have no idea what you're talking about, I'm not going to take your opinion seriously. I'm not gonna entertain people who use the 'eye test' as their basis for an argument on anything. Deal with it.
Please provide us with more brilliant commentary about how Meyer changed nothing to his offense. Can't wait to hear more about your vaunted 'eye test'. Yea when you've proven you have no idea what you're talking about, I'm not going to take your opinion seriously. I'm not gonna entertain people who use the 'eye test' as their basis for an argument on anything. Deal with it.
Last edited:
Agreed. My only point though is people act as f Meyer inherited a pro bowl roster or something. There wasn't a sizable gap in skill between the two rosters. Any advantages that roster had is also minimized by the fact that almost none of them fit the offense Meyer ran.
There sure as hell was a sizeable gap on the offensive side of the ball. I can't he believe you typed that?? Really? Chris Leak, Chad Jackson, Andre Caldwell, Dallas Baker, Cornelius Ingram vs what McElwain had this last season on offense. Not even worth comparing.
Drafted is no part of a real or serious discussion on college talent levels.
~ What a player does in college, means nothing concerning the NFL.
(at least that's what I've seen written here repeatedly)
~ McElwain was hired and is being paid millions to make the football decisions.
His detractors here are getting paid the amount that their criticisms are worth.
His recruiting classes quality depend on things that are internal to his team.
Left with a #90's (rivals) class, he improved to #23 (2 months).
He improved nine more spots to #14 (their opinions) in just over 1 year.
A similar improvement in his 3rd class would put it in the Top 5.
I believe that Top 10 classes (even by the consensus idiots) are good enough to win a NC. Year to year consistency of quality is more important than an occasional Top 3-5 class.
And it takes 4 to 5 years to completely turn over a roster to being the new HBC's team.
So while none of us here 'knows' exactly where they are going, or where they will end up, I'm liking Mc-staffs first 10 win season and the beginnings that they have made in building and forming an entirely new team.
And the best thing about all of this (to me) is that nothing that any of the trolls, haters, or the doom & gloomers whine and snivel about is going to make even the least bit of difference concerning Mc-staffs long term Gator success.
LOL. This post is awesome on so many levels. The usual shitty logic complete with girl like use of emojis. You're like a malfunctioning bot. I could go back 3 years and find you posting this exact same thing about Mushamp. If I recall the same grade school level arguments and insulting of anyone who dared question the coaches is what got you banned then. 3 years later you're back posting the same thing, just substituting Mac's name for Muschamp's.
Your post in a nutshell reads "since you've never been president you can't criticize the president." I'm curious why you keep spamming the boards with your novel-length opinions then since no opinions other than the coaches matter?
This is revisionist garbage. The only guys you listed who had done anything remotely moteworhthy before Meyer got to UF was Leak and Jackson. Ingram was a damn backup QB before Meyer got to UF and had never seen the field and Baker had approximately 400 career receiving yards before Meyer. Robinson in one season had as many as Baker had in his first three at UF. Stop acting like we had a bunch of highly productive studs at the time Meyer got them. You're comparing what they did after the fact to guys on this roster who have yet to have a chance to do anything and then concluding that because they haven't done it yet they're not as talented.
There's no way to refute the fact that half the starters on that 05' offense went undrafted. Mac's first offense had more players drafted than Meyer's first offense and I'd be willing to bet that as guys like Calloway, the Jordan's, Lewis, Goolsby, etc mature you'll no longer think they don't stack up as all those guys are highly likely to be drafted. Grier is/was also more talented than Leak. He wasn't left a scrap heap no matter how much you guys try to make it seem so. The oline was/is bad but please go look up the starters on that 05' offensive line and get back to me. That 05' offense had one of the worst run games in the country too averaging only 3.9 ypc. There are way more similarities than you guys want to admit.
Last edited:
I was Gator when the Florida Trophy case was empty. Yet I enjoyed football season, even knowing going in that the trophy case would remain empty.
I'm going to attempt to get back to that mindset. Beer, football, Go Gators win or lose. Which is why I'm going to stop reading this thread. Just about everybody in here hates everything about college football, and everything about Gator football as well. I don't want to be part of everybody.
I'm going to attempt to get back to that mindset. Beer, football, Go Gators win or lose. Which is why I'm going to stop reading this thread. Just about everybody in here hates everything about college football, and everything about Gator football as well. I don't want to be part of everybody.
Seriously Oozie....work on the anger management dude.
"This is revisionist garbage."
"The usual shitty logic complete with girl like use of emojis."
"Please provide us with more brilliant commentary"
You are simply trying to bully others into believing your opinion is fact. It's ok for others to disagree with you. This forum isn't a contest. You make discussing sports a chore instead of fun.
Take a deep breath and relax.
"This is revisionist garbage."
"The usual shitty logic complete with girl like use of emojis."
"Please provide us with more brilliant commentary"
You are simply trying to bully others into believing your opinion is fact. It's ok for others to disagree with you. This forum isn't a contest. You make discussing sports a chore instead of fun.
Take a deep breath and relax.
I'm relaxed, downing some cobbler atm actually. It's a message board, man up. You sound like one of those whiny social justice warrior tards on college campuses that need a safe space. LOL@ bullying on a message board.
You also need to learn the difference between opinion and fact, there's been quite a bit of the latter that gets countered by 'eye test' nonsense. Sorry, my patience for that stupidity is nil.
LOL...you seriously replied with an insult, I'm right and everyone else is wrong and then an insult.
You are truly special.
All of this and still no mention of the 3 true freshmen olineman that McElwain had to start as well. I don't believe Meyer had to start any true freshmen on the oline in the 2005 season.
I'm no Oozie, but let me see if I can get his reply correct.
Random insult followed by you're wrong and I'm right and then another random insult.
Similar threads
