I do miss the days when you signed a class and kept them for four years.
Mann, Locke, Glover Gone - Who's Next?
- Thread starter ocalaman
- Start date
Appleby is the closest thing we have to a true PG and he’s not a true PG. In a Mike White offense he’s going to be a TO machine. We really could use a true PG but not sure we are going to get one
Always, it's out of both sides of the mouth for the entitled fans.
We want a fast-action running offense (Mann-Appleby).
We want a slow-down high Ast to T-O offense (Nembhard).
Wait, I'm ENTITLED, I demand to have both at the same time
....
Do you want guys that are 6-11+ but glued to the floor, or do you want guys that are 6-5 to 6-7 that can jump 41+ and come down with the rebound? --- Both of course....
Do you want a consistently solid winning HC and person, with all of the coaching intangibles, or do you just want championships along with the NCAA investigators and eventual sanctions?
Entitled Fans -- I WANT WHAT I WANT AND I'LL STOMP MY FEET AND HOLD MY BREATH UNTIL YOU GIVE ME EVERYTHING THAT I WANT!
We want a fast-action running offense (Mann-Appleby).
We want a slow-down high Ast to T-O offense (Nembhard).
Wait, I'm ENTITLED, I demand to have both at the same time
Do you want guys that are 6-11+ but glued to the floor, or do you want guys that are 6-5 to 6-7 that can jump 41+ and come down with the rebound? --- Both of course....
Do you want a consistently solid winning HC and person, with all of the coaching intangibles, or do you just want championships along with the NCAA investigators and eventual sanctions?
Entitled Fans -- I WANT WHAT I WANT AND I'LL STOMP MY FEET AND HOLD MY BREATH UNTIL YOU GIVE ME EVERYTHING THAT I WANT!
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Constant off-season reftain -- White's team won't make a post season tourney.
WRONG, 6 seasons in a row, but still sniveling and whining.
Anyone with a B-Ball brain knows that your finish in the Tourney (on the court) is what counts.
It's not where the Fake News media-moron's Poll voters decide to put you on their opinion list.
=====
Chicken Little - UF/White are doomed due to all of the post season player losses:
Gonzo Gards = Mann - Locke - Lewis
Xfer-In Guards = Jones - McKissic - Fleming, plus HS recruit Reeves.
Looks more like addition by subtraction to me....
CG Phiandrous Fleming Jr 6-4 210 - CharSo xfer Grad-xfer
20.1 PPG, 7.4 Rbs, 2.3 Ast, 1.8 Stl. -- 78% FT's
He is the Big South Conf. Def. PoY and 2X BigSo 1st Team.
His other main xfer offers - Ark, aTm, Va, NCSt.
Fleming's Coach - “Phlan’s infectious personality, incredible energy, passion, unselfishness, and work ethic, have made him an absolute joy to coach." (AMF SL)
PF's Gonzo - Omar Payne - Osayi Osifo
PF xfer-in - CJ Fleder 6-7 230 - 9.7 PPG, 5.9 Rbs, FG's 46% - BC Grad-xfer
PF returner - Anthony Duruji 6-7 220 Sr
More addition by subtraction....
Florida Gators Basketball Projected Roster 2021-22, so far:
Ht-Wt - Player -- Only one (6-1) under 6-3, with 8 at 6-5+ with 2 at 6-11.
6-1 170 - PG Tyree Appleby
6-3 195 - SG Brandon McKissic
6-3 180 - CG Myreon Jones
6-4 210 - CG Phlandrous Fleming Jr.
6-5 206 - CG/SF Niels Lane
6-6 170 - CG/SF Kowacie Reeves
6-5 229 - SF/PF Keyontae Johnson
6-7 192 - SF Samson Ruzhentsev
6-7 220 - PF Anthony Duruji
6-7 231 - PF CJ Felder
6-11 285 - C Jason Jitoboh
6-11 220 - C Colin Castleton
IF KJ returns, Mike has 1 more ship to use or to save, 2 if KJ doesn't return.
Plus two solid quality W-O depth players that could be starters at smaller schools.
6-4 175 - PG Jack May
6-4 185 - SG Alex Klatsky
~~ So much for the dooms day Chicken Littles....
WRONG, 6 seasons in a row, but still sniveling and whining.
Anyone with a B-Ball brain knows that your finish in the Tourney (on the court) is what counts.
It's not where the Fake News media-moron's Poll voters decide to put you on their opinion list.
=====
Chicken Little - UF/White are doomed due to all of the post season player losses:
Gonzo Gards = Mann - Locke - Lewis
Xfer-In Guards = Jones - McKissic - Fleming, plus HS recruit Reeves.
Looks more like addition by subtraction to me....
CG Phiandrous Fleming Jr 6-4 210 - CharSo xfer Grad-xfer
20.1 PPG, 7.4 Rbs, 2.3 Ast, 1.8 Stl. -- 78% FT's
He is the Big South Conf. Def. PoY and 2X BigSo 1st Team.
His other main xfer offers - Ark, aTm, Va, NCSt.
Fleming's Coach - “Phlan’s infectious personality, incredible energy, passion, unselfishness, and work ethic, have made him an absolute joy to coach." (AMF SL)
PF's Gonzo - Omar Payne - Osayi Osifo
PF xfer-in - CJ Fleder 6-7 230 - 9.7 PPG, 5.9 Rbs, FG's 46% - BC Grad-xfer
PF returner - Anthony Duruji 6-7 220 Sr
More addition by subtraction....
Florida Gators Basketball Projected Roster 2021-22, so far:
Ht-Wt - Player -- Only one (6-1) under 6-3, with 8 at 6-5+ with 2 at 6-11.
6-1 170 - PG Tyree Appleby
6-3 195 - SG Brandon McKissic
6-3 180 - CG Myreon Jones
6-4 210 - CG Phlandrous Fleming Jr.
6-5 206 - CG/SF Niels Lane
6-6 170 - CG/SF Kowacie Reeves
6-5 229 - SF/PF Keyontae Johnson
6-7 192 - SF Samson Ruzhentsev
6-7 220 - PF Anthony Duruji
6-7 231 - PF CJ Felder
6-11 285 - C Jason Jitoboh
6-11 220 - C Colin Castleton
IF KJ returns, Mike has 1 more ship to use or to save, 2 if KJ doesn't return.
Plus two solid quality W-O depth players that could be starters at smaller schools.
6-4 175 - PG Jack May
6-4 185 - SG Alex Klatsky
~~ So much for the dooms day Chicken Littles....
Always, it's out of both sides of the mouth for the entitled fans.
We want a fast-action running offense (Mann-Appleby).
We want a slow-down high Ast to T-O offense (Nembhard).
Wait, I'm ENTITLED, I demand to have both at the same time....
Do you want guys that are 6-11+ but glued to the floor, or do you want guys that are 6-5 to 6-7 that can jump 41+ and come down with the rebound? --- Both of course....
Do you want a consistently solid winning HC and person, with all of the coaching intangibles, or do you just want championships along with the NCAA investigators and eventual sanctions?
Entitled Fans -- I WANT WHAT I WANT AND I'LL STOMP MY FEET AND HOLD MY BREATH UNTIL YOU GIVE ME EVERYTHING THAT I WANT!
As far as the point guard situation I am not really sure what they ran at those other teams but looking at the stats it appears the guard transfer from Penn State may at least have average protecting the ball skills. McKissic had a lot better ratio to turnovers the prior season.
I just want a coach that doesn't go to slow down mode in big games with a ton of time left after we got that nice lead by moving especially when the other team is playing guys more minutes than we have.
Is that too much to ask Coach White? To stop mess like that after 6 years and all the losses it has cost us.
Also is it too much to ask White to finally do something like winning the conference, winning the SEC tournament or making a Final Four like the coaches prior to him?
Always, it's out of both sides of the mouth for the entitled fans.
We want a fast-action running offense (Mann-Appleby).
We want a slow-down high Ast to T-O offense (Nembhard).
Wait, I'm ENTITLED, I demand to have both at the same time....
Do you want guys that are 6-11+ but glued to the floor, or do you want guys that are 6-5 to 6-7 that can jump 41+ and come down with the rebound? --- Both of course....
Do you want a consistently solid winning HC and person, with all of the coaching intangibles, or do you just want championships along with the NCAA investigators and eventual sanctions?
Entitled Fans -- I WANT WHAT I WANT AND I'LL STOMP MY FEET AND HOLD MY BREATH UNTIL YOU GIVE ME EVERYTHING THAT I WANT!
that's wild.
your understanding of basketball is dumbfounding.
I don't even know how to address your opinions on offense.
Also, nice attempt at equating winning championships with cheating.
but yeah....man....you don't understand basketball at all.
like....when you watch a game, are you able to identify what offense is being run? Or what defense is being utilized?
Can you watch a Duke and Kentucky game and tell which one is running the PnR out of the motion and which is running the dribble drive?
like, do you hear things like "3 quarter court press" and actually know what that means or do you just assume it's the same as a 1-3-1 because that's also a phrase you've heard?
Billy ran the Hi-Low. Do you know what that looks like? I mean....you've watched a lot of basketball, you know what it looks like, right?
man just trying to understand how you come up with the basketball logic that you have.
Yeah, it's not an either or with a slowdown and high assist/turnover ratio versus fast break offense and low assist to turnover ratio. Gonzaga and Baylor both were high scoring, up tempo teams and yet had great assist to turnover ratios. Really good teams do that. Coaching dictates the style of play and coaching can mandate taking care of the ball or you sit on the bench. Who knows how these new players will work out? Jones, to me, has the best upside because he played really well in the Big 10, an excellent basketball conference. McKissic played for a small school in a mid-level conference. Who knows how he will do against big time competition? Phlandrous was the best player on a terrible team (3-18). Maybe he'll be good, maybe not. Nobody really knows. All I do know is that Mike White hasn't won a championship of any kind in 6 years and has only been in contention 1 year. His teams have finished #20 1 time and every other year has not finished ranked in spite of being pre-season ranked 3 years. He's not living up to the standards of Florida Gator athletics and any honest fan will admit this FACT.
Anybody can say whatever they want about the situation, but all sadgator knows for sure is that “Phlandrous” is a bad ass name...
can’t wait to root for that guy...
can’t wait to root for that guy...
Florida basketball has backed itself into a corner at the point guard position
Florida Gators head coach Mike White was in an unenviable position when the team’s lengthy offseason process began. Given the hand he was dealt, it’s hard to argue that he could have do…
gatorswire.usatoday.com
No true PG on the roster in a Mike White offense is trouble IMO. Lots of TOs are on the horizon.Florida basketball has backed itself into a corner at the point guard position
Florida Gators head coach Mike White was in an unenviable position when the team’s lengthy offseason process began. Given the hand he was dealt, it’s hard to argue that he could have do…
CJ Felder 6-7 230 Jr - Sumter, SC - BC xfer-in
2020-21 - 9.7 Pts - 5.9 Rbs - 2.2 Blk
He went double-double (17 Pts 14 Rbs) vs Wake.
He had 6 blocked shots vs Miami.
He runs the floor hard in transition and has advanced ball handling skills for a power forward. >> Looks to me like he was more productive on the court than Payne & Osifo combined.
PG Phlandrous Fleming Jr 6-4 210 Sr - Athens, Ga - CharSo Xfer-in
2020-21 - 20.1 Pts - 7.4 Rbs - 80% FT's
He's a 2X Big South Defensive PoY and 1sr-team all-conference honoree.
As good as Mann was, Fleming looks (on paper at least) to be even better.
On film, he looks like a true ball handling PG.
SG Myreon Jones 6-3 180 Sr
2020-21 - 15.3 Pts
He has 12 career 20-point games, and he's accomplished 20+ Pts 3 times vs top-25 opponents, including a career-best 29 vs Neb.
As good as SG Locke is, this kid was more productive last season.
CG Brandon McKissic 6-3 195 Sr Grad-xfer
2020-21 - McKissic comes from Missouri-Kansas City, where he was the Summit League Defensive PoY and averaged 17.2 PPG last season, earning 2nd-team all-league honors. McKissic has 10 career 20-point games, including a career-best 29 vs. Neb-Omaha and a 24-point game at KSt.
He scored 15 points or more in 14 of his 18 appearances last season. CONSISTENCY
There is no real comparison with seldom used erratic Ast/TO Glover.
==========
Why is the Ast to T-O ratio not as important for the 3 incoming guards?
Fleming = 20.1 PPG
McKissic = 17.2 PPG
Jones = 15.3 PPG
Looks like they mostly assist themselves and just go ahead and score the ball.
However, they are all willing to share the ball when they get the chance.
2020-21 Comparison:
PG Andrew Nembhard - 4.4 Ast to 1.2 T-O's, with 9.2 PPG
CG Phlandrous Fleming - 2.3 Ast to 2.7 T-O's with 20.1 PPG
And then there's something that Fleming is, that Nemrod is never going to be IMO,
>>> 2X Big South Defensive PoY
Andrew has 2.1 more Ast's, 1.5 less TO's, but with 10.9 less PPG.
Now, the question is this; which gives your team a better chance to win?
Let the speculations and opinions begin....
SG's Comparison;
Locke - 10 PPG
Jones - 15 PPG
And any comparison of Glover vs McKissic would be a poor joke....
Assists fo Turn-Over Ratios + PPG:
CG Mann 83/68 = 1.22 Ast/TO -- PPG 16.0
-----
SG Jones 51/29 = 1.76 Ast/TO -- PPG 15.3
PG Appleby 82/72 = 1.14 Ast/TO -- PPG 11.3
-----
CG McKissic 59/54 = 1.09 Ast/TO -- PPG 17.2
Conf. Def PoY
PG Glover 13/20 = 0.65 Ast/TO -- PPP 2.5
-----
PG Fleming 41/49 = 0.84 Ast/TO -- PPG 20.1
Conf. 2X Def PoY with 7.4 Rbs/Gm
This certainly looks like an across the board upgrade in the back-court to me.
=====
Just like Felder looks like an upgrade over Payne/Osifo.
Felder plays much like Duruji, with a constantly running motor, plus he's a little better shooter and ball handler than those other 3 PF's.
IF Mike gets KJ and CC back, the front court will be rock solid.
I also expect 6-11 C Jitoboh to continue to lose weight and run the floor better.
He has B-Ball skills imo, that are currently being held back by his poor conditioning choices.
~~ He's appeared in 33 games over his first 2 UF seasons, but only averaging 1.5 PPG.
A rim protector with fantastic size with a good feel for the game.
Has a soft touch around the basket and is a solid passer in the post.
Prep: He averaged 10.1 Pts and 5.6 Rebs on the Nike EYBL circuit in the summer of 2018.
CG Mann 83/68 = 1.22 Ast/TO -- PPG 16.0
-----
SG Jones 51/29 = 1.76 Ast/TO -- PPG 15.3
PG Appleby 82/72 = 1.14 Ast/TO -- PPG 11.3
-----
CG McKissic 59/54 = 1.09 Ast/TO -- PPG 17.2
Conf. Def PoY
PG Glover 13/20 = 0.65 Ast/TO -- PPP 2.5
-----
PG Fleming 41/49 = 0.84 Ast/TO -- PPG 20.1
Conf. 2X Def PoY with 7.4 Rbs/Gm
This certainly looks like an across the board upgrade in the back-court to me.
=====
Just like Felder looks like an upgrade over Payne/Osifo.
Felder plays much like Duruji, with a constantly running motor, plus he's a little better shooter and ball handler than those other 3 PF's.
IF Mike gets KJ and CC back, the front court will be rock solid.
I also expect 6-11 C Jitoboh to continue to lose weight and run the floor better.
He has B-Ball skills imo, that are currently being held back by his poor conditioning choices.
~~ He's appeared in 33 games over his first 2 UF seasons, but only averaging 1.5 PPG.
A rim protector with fantastic size with a good feel for the game.
Has a soft touch around the basket and is a solid passer in the post.
Prep: He averaged 10.1 Pts and 5.6 Rebs on the Nike EYBL circuit in the summer of 2018.
Recruiting has branched out recently with the xfer portal.
Everyone is still speculating on the good vs bad that this creates.
I'm of the opinion that Mike and Dan have both been good recruiters, but they have excelled in their many portal acquisitions, season after season.
Recruits -- You 'roll the dice' on their success vs bust potential at the college level.
Portals -- You can closely evaluate what they have already done at the college level.
Many recruits no longer stay for the entire 4 years before bailing out for a job.
That lessens the hit on taking portal xfers that have a reduced eligibility imo.
'Adapt and Overcome'
Everyone is still speculating on the good vs bad that this creates.
I'm of the opinion that Mike and Dan have both been good recruiters, but they have excelled in their many portal acquisitions, season after season.
Recruits -- You 'roll the dice' on their success vs bust potential at the college level.
Portals -- You can closely evaluate what they have already done at the college level.
Many recruits no longer stay for the entire 4 years before bailing out for a job.
That lessens the hit on taking portal xfers that have a reduced eligibility imo.
'Adapt and Overcome'
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How they get players isn't as important as what they do with them once they get here. Mike White has yet to win a championship of any kind, nor finish in the Top 15 at the end of the season. Dan Mullen has at least played in the SEC championship game and finished in the Top 10. Results are all that matters.
Our opinions differ. That's not a big deal imo.
What did BillyD really leave for Mike White?
A loser 16-17, 8-10 SEC team that hadn't had a single player drafted in his last 2 seasons. His Final-4 team lost to U-Conn by double digits. The program was in pretty good condition, but the actual team at that time was not.
Gone from that Final-4 roster when Mike arrived:
G Eli Carter Jr
G Scottie Wilbekin Sr
F Will Yeguete Sr
F Casey Prather Sr
C Patric Young Sr
C Jon Horford Grad-Sr
BillyD is a HoF coach, but he starred slow with 2 losing seasons, and he finished on a down turn losing season. -- And oh BTW, when some on here ragged on BillD early in his UF career and wanted him gone, I defended him too....
Where and how does the iG judge Gator B-Ball coaches on the tangibles?
1. Making the Big Dance - (the #1 yearly goal imo)
2. Making a Sweet-16
3. Winning the SEC Reg Season Championship
4. Winning the SEC Tourney
5. Having an over-all winning season.
6. Not having a losing record in the SEC.
These intangibles are very important for any Gator coach.
1. Success in the classroom -- STUDENT/athletes
2. Success and/or awards for citizenship off the court.
3. A clean police blotter.
4. Intangibles covers many other areas to maintain a positive overall program.
Mike White is a very good B-Ball coach, but he's an even better person, and that counts a lot to me.
Each to his own....
Another Gator BB coach leaving. https://247sports.com/college/flori...ols-tapped-for-head-job-at-Radford-164477913/
Keyontae Johnson not entering NBA draft. Focusing on returning to the court at UF. Not yet medically cleared. Great news. https://247sports.com/college/flori...A-Draft-focused-on-return-to-court-164489440/
And the reason the other 1,300 are leaving their schools? Uneducated comments abound about this topic!
Not only did half the team transfer, but also 100% of the assistant coaches. Both took HC jobs but at much smaller colleges. That says something about the state of the program.
4 Players xfer out of the 15 (13 ships), so that's 50% (half) of the team gone.
Just as smart and just as correct as I expect from Little Loopy Lizzy....
Four coaches, 2 leave for HC'ing jobs, so 100% of coaching staff are gone....
Little Loopy Lizzy is obviously a Rocket Scientist....
1. HC Mike White
2. Assoc. HC Al Pinkins -- Hired when May left.
3, Assist Coach Jordan Mincy - HC at Jacksonville
4. Assist Coach Darrius Nichols - HC at Radford
2 Leave for Head Coaching opportunity + a pay raise.
So obviously, they left because they hated working for incompetent Mike....
And that's why the AD/UAA gave Mike a raise and contract extension too.
>>> And don't forget, Dusty May also left for a HC'ing job at FAU, but he still sent his son to UF/Mike, proving how little respect he has for Mike....
Mike's long time assistant coaches progress to HC'ing jobs, so obviously Mike is a terrible coach because they didn't get jobs at top B-Ball schools... LLL
Support Staff: All Remain
Director of B-Ball Operations - Jonathan Blake
Special Assistant to HC - Dryce Douglas
Director of S & C - Preston Green
Assoc. AD, Sports Health - Dave Werner
Leaving for head coaching jobs is a step up even at smaller schools. Can’t fault them for that.
There are always those types of jobs available. That we lost both Assistant Coaches in the same offseason is telling. And I don't fault THEM.
it IS a little odd though. Taking the jobs they took has a bit of a sinking ship feel to it.
With Mike coaching them, I expect most Gator opponents to score less than 60 Pts in 2021-22.
I also expect them to lead the SEC in team Blocked Shots.
www.si.com
I also expect them to lead the SEC in team Blocked Shots.
Brandon McKissic Talks Transfer to Florida, 'This Can Be a Special Group'
The Florida Gators basketball program is undergoing a rebuilding process. Transfer guard Brandon McKissic appeared on a podcast to discuss his decision to go to Florida, and more.
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With Mike coaching them, I expect most Gator opponents to score less than 60 Pts in 2021-22.
I also expect them to lead the SEC in team Blocked Shots.
Brandon McKissic Talks Transfer to Florida, 'This Can Be a Special Group'
The Florida Gators basketball program is undergoing a rebuilding process. Transfer guard Brandon McKissic appeared on a podcast to discuss his decision to go to Florida, and more.
So we have a core group that haven't played together, and a coaching staff that has never coached together. That seems the perfect recipe for playing as a cohesive unit, I'm sure we'll have no difficulties at all. 😕
Hard to say. You would think we have a good balance if one of the new guards is a decent point guard. However other teams like Arkansas look to be pretty good this coming season and KY may get back to contending for the SEC also. It will be interesting to see what White does as this should be it if he doesn't produce something significant.
If he wasn't to make the Sweet 16 he better have won the SEC imo or be good enough to be like a 4/5 seed or better in the tourney.
Using the same (worthless imo) LLL logic, the Gator's 2021 secondary are hopeless.
Three Sr's gone, and both position coaches new, so there's no way they can be any good,,, right???
Especially since both teams 2021 season's games begin next week, leaving them no time at all to learn and prepare.
So fire the DC/DL coach because it's all his fault.
Then fire the HC because he hired and retained the DC/DL coach.
Then fire the AD because he hired and retained the HC.
Then disband the entire UAA because they are the circle of jerks in charge, and fish rot from the head.
After all that, firing Mike White and replacing him with a HoF coach should be a walk in the park....
Three Sr's gone, and both position coaches new, so there's no way they can be any good,,, right???
Especially since both teams 2021 season's games begin next week, leaving them no time at all to learn and prepare.
So fire the DC/DL coach because it's all his fault.
Then fire the HC because he hired and retained the DC/DL coach.
Then fire the AD because he hired and retained the HC.
Then disband the entire UAA because they are the circle of jerks in charge, and fish rot from the head.
After all that, firing Mike White and replacing him with a HoF coach should be a walk in the park....
You missed my point. We have a coaching staff with no experience working together and a team with no experience playing together, and no experience working with the coaches. Also, the players do not know the playbook, but that's ok, because with 2 new coaches we are probably going to be changing the playbook anyway. In the pros you can get away with it a bit, because so many players can isolate and go get a basket, but in college, they have to work as a unit, and they are far, far away from being a unit.
I think that shouldn't be much of an issue as long as they have good chemistry with each other. I do hope White cuts out the slow things down to let the other team catch up mess. He probably won't however.
Baylor and Gonzaga have used transfer players with a great deal of success. We are about to find out if White can do the same. Next season, depending on KJ, looking at 5 transfer starters.
well that's the problem, isn't it? Because the weird slow down offense IS his thing. He's done it his entire tenure here.
