It’s not an either or. You need high level talent to develop. You’re actually making his point whether you realize it or not. I agree that Mullen is great at player development yet he never came close to winning his division and had a losing record against the likes of Les Miles and other West teams. Why? They had more talent than him. So despite his great player development he didn’t win anything because he couldn’t match them man for man.
2019 recruiting class pointing to major recruiting problems?
- Thread starter Gator Fever
- Start date
It’s not an either or. You need high level talent to develop. You’re actually making his point whether you realize it or not. I agree that Mullen is great at player development yet he never came close to winning his division and had a losing record against the likes of Les Miles and other West teams. Why? They had more talent than him. So despite his great player development he didn’t win anything because he couldn’t match them man for man.
You're forgetting that they also had a much better brand and much better facilities. A better brand recruits itself, and he has that now at Florida. Better facilities accelerates player development. MSU's facilities were worse than many of the top HSes in Florida.
And as for needing high level talent to develop.....3-star Dak Prescott says hai. Mullen's 2014 class had a 2.79 star average, yet his 2014 team was #1 for a month. Muschamp signed much better classes, and got fired that same season.
Again, to win championships, you need:
Solid faciltiies
Solid player development
Solid coaching
Solid recruiting
Florida has solid facilities. Mullen has solid coaching and solid player development skills. Mullen is NOT a solid recruiter, but the Florida brand will help with that, and when he starts winning, that will help even more and the solid recruiting will follow.
Then, all the pieces will be in place to win championships. Nightmare scenario indeed.
Dak Prescott is one player. Besides that, Dak Prescott was only ranked where he was because he was relatively unproven as a QB, schools like LSU wanted him as an athlete. He wasn’t some nobody athlete. The overwhelming amount of evidence just doesn’t agree with you, period. You need a baseline of talent to develop or it doesn’t matter, they go hand in hand one isn’t more important than the other. There’s a reason teams with very good coaches, like Mullen was at MSU, have no rings despite their good coaching and development. It’s because they don’t have enough talent.
You keep trying to make it an either or which is just silly. Saban is great at player development right? Yet he won no titles at MSU...why? Urban is great at player development and he won no titles at Bowling Green? Why? The answer is obvious...not enough talent at either place. You need both. And whether you agree or not talent comes first. The best coaches couldn’t take you and turn you into a high caliber D1 player. There’s a reason schools spend millions to recruit the best athletes possible, you need talent and lots of it to win. Talent is the material. You need good material to build something lasting.
You keep trying to make it an either or which is just silly. Saban is great at player development right? Yet he won no titles at MSU...why? Urban is great at player development and he won no titles at Bowling Green? Why? The answer is obvious...not enough talent at either place. You need both. And whether you agree or not talent comes first. The best coaches couldn’t take you and turn you into a high caliber D1 player. There’s a reason schools spend millions to recruit the best athletes possible, you need talent and lots of it to win. Talent is the material. You need good material to build something lasting.
In the post you replied to I said that solid recruiting was one of the factors in competing for championships. Recruiting AND player development. You need BOTH, not either, BOTH.
Yep and even those schools like Utah and TCU found out they couldn't keep reeling off those great seasons year after year when they had to deal with the grind of a power 5 conference. Their recruiting wouldn't allow it.
Are you panicked?
Serious question.
I'm not sure you and I have really talked about it one-on-one.
Nope. Not yet. Mullen is the best coach we’ve had here since Meyer and truthfully he should have been the choice after Meyer but Foley’s dumb ass pride got in the way. I know we’ll get at a minimum above average QB play and the people we do get will develop. But he’s gonna need elite recruiting because as you know I think Mac’s recruiting as garbage. That’s where the concern should be. I think Mullen will be good recruiting in time, but will it be enough? If that fat clown had recruited worth a damn it would be, not so sure now. He put us in a deep hole.
That's pretty much how I feel.
Fever is way over the top on all of this.
Do you think if we have a good looking offense and have a nice year that it will be a significant boost going forward or does it not really matter in the scheme of things when it comes to recruiting?
Say what?
Arky? Are you sure?
I thought they and the Mississippi teams were content to poach all the talent out of Memphis since Arky and Mississippi are like next door and Knoxville might as well be in another country for the Memphis kids.( over 400 miles between the two cities)
You know a lot more than me.
I do know 2 things, however:
1. Winning in January is what counts, not winning in February.
2. If fans are calling for a coach to be fired, it scares away recruits, so calling for a coach to be fired because he isn't recruiting well is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
This guy gets it. Fever doesn't see that firing coaches after one season cause they didn't have enough commits in July means no one else will take the job.
Yep us fans scare away the recruits at UF while the fans have no affect at those other schools. It only causes bad recruiting classes with new coaches at UF.
Saban is constantly replacing coaches and many times tells them to move on with the standard thank you note. Quite a few have moved on after just a year on staff.
Both? It can’t help but make recruiting easier. But at the same time a lot of blue chip guys are off the board already. So we’ll be depending on flips and those don’t always work out. That’s why I’d honestly be fine with rolling with Jones and whatever happens happens, at least you could sell hope to recruits that way. “We got a young star at QB come play with him.” Roll out Franks and Trask and have another mediocre offense and what do you have to sell? Come play with them?
I’m fully prepared to have a mediocre amen possibly even bad offense by the way and I don’t think it’ll be a reflection on the staff at all. Oline is still gonna be bad and the only QB that fits what they wanna do is a freshman. Love our backs and receivers but they’re dependent on the other two.
Saban's also won 5 of the last 9 NCs. When your coach does that, he can start punting coaches after a season, everyone else has to be a bit more reasonable than the average internet fan when it comes to hiring and firing.
So when should it be done. When the coach is already on the hot seat after a couple of crappy classes with the coaching candidates out there figuring the coach may be gone in a year or two because things aren't going well?
No you should tell the coach he has to win 10 games in the first season and if he doesn't, call all his staff in and fire them at the end of the season.
You know, to avoid creating a situation where the team has a couple of crappy classes and the coach ends up on the hotseat.
The coach will be creating the classes with his staff not any wins or losses in his first year on the field. We are pretty much a lock to be about 8-4 unless turnovers fall our way big time in some games so the dreams of the actual season creating recruiting buzz (which it doesn't anyway) is just a pipe dream.
You actually have a very manageable schedule. Georgia and FSU are the only truly tough games you have. Which 4 games do you, as a rational Florida fan, see Mullen losing in his first year?
We will lose @ Miss State, GA, LSU and @ FSU imo. We might possibly win one of those but I think it would be offset by a loss to one of these 3 teams if it happened - @Tenn, SC or KY. I think 7-5 would be a little more likely than 9-3. I just don't see Franks magically becoming a decent QB and Jones is a true freshman. We wont have the defense that Mac had to win all those games in 15 and 16 with offensive ineptitude. Defense will be good but not as good as those years.
So after downplaying the job Mullen did at Miss State, you think they will BEAT Florida?
And you don't think Mullen can beat Orgeron at Home? Ok then...
And FYI, Bama and Georgia played a pair of true freshmen QBs in the NC game. One of them threw the winning score.
Actually that is the game I give us the least chance to win despite most others saying it would be Georgia. With our history on the road there and that D line they have its going to be a long day for us I think. Unless they lose their starting QB prior to that game I have a hard time seeing us winning on their field. Their D line will probably be good enough to have Franks running for his life while also keeping our running game in check.
Bama and Georgia have enough talent to get away with that and we don't. Jones still might be our best option after a few games however considering how Franks has looked up to this point.
I actually think our defense will be top 15 caliber this year. I still think the talent sucks in some spots like LB, but Grantham’s style should be a huge benefit. He’s blitz heavy and loves to leave his corrners on an island which will be great with our corners. If our dline holds up and we play a nice mix of even fronts with all the odd fronts Grantham runs we’ll be pretty stout.
Its mostly LB and safety which give me my doubts about it being close to some of our better recent defenses. D line could be really good if some players step up like some think they will.
A lot of coaches had a losing record vs Les Miles...but I understand your point.
Nice! Betting we get a few more. That’s usually the case after FNL. That’s what a UF linebacker recruit is supposed to look like, none of those Shannon specials.
I'm still baffled by that horrendous hire. Swamp Donkey made Zook look like Saban.
Preface: Not super happy with this class THUS FAR
But, you are making this ‘fire the staff’ stuff too simplistic. That is because we are off to an wxcellent start for 2020 and headed for what could be a vwry special class that year. So do you hit the panic button and just scrap the guys who are building that class? Because at rhis point last year and next year both look to be excellent classes. So???
Yeah....odd that the continuing growth of the 2020 class isn't being discussed.
And word to see you taking a level headed response to a coach.
I'm not sure if it's because Foley didn't hire him, He's a Meyer disciple, or if it's because Fever is so over the top it makes you look sane.
All of the above to a degree. But more importantly no pro-style BS and the QB will be a legitimate run option on every play.
And, once life takes a shit on you it becomes much less important where a 17 year old goes to college. Just want to watch some entertaining football foe the first time since Mullen left for MSU
Pegged that clown from the first PC. Anybody who tries that hard is always a con man. Call it street smarts.
He could save himself with an actual really good 2020 class. My guess at this point is it will be pedestrian for a UF class outside the top 10 nationally and not in the top 4 classes in the SEC unless he makes some changes to get a good recruiter in here. As far as 2019 goes its a done deal we will have a substandard class imo - around 20th or so. I don't even think my former #14 Rivals ceiling prediction is in play anymore. #18 Rivals may be the best case scenario now.
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