Proprietary COVID-19 and Vaccine thread

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

It's a tweet. I think some sense of proportionality is in order. Let's see how it plays out before accusing.

It's played out. They asked for more information (which Vandy has), Vandy said nope.

This isn't as hard as you're making it.

Either incompetence or nefarious intent are the only logical culprits for why Vandy would not give data and context that it has access to.

Either one is disqualifying to me when considering if they are a credible source of information on covid cases and results. YMMV

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

I'm not offended at all. And yes, people can be hornswoggled by intentional or negligent reporting of data. I did look at the tweets, but I think you and I consume information through a different lens. Absent of any evidence of wrongdoing or malicious intent to deceive, I withhold judgment, and that is what I am doing here with Vandy. You are attributing their tweets to some nefarious intent. Could it be nefarious? Sure. But there could be a lot of other reasons as well. I give them the benefit of the doubt until proof exists that I shouldn't.

Do they have access to basic information about the covid patients such as age, shot status, and underlying health conditions?

Yes.

They provided none of the information on age. They were asked to provide it. They said they had provided all they would.

They DID claim that the 'majority' of the 'vaccinated' have underlying conditions that compromised their immune systems.

That's an insanely vague claim, but why didn't they clarify if the same held true for those that weren't 'vaccinated'? Because we know if they had the data for the 'vaccinated', they had it for those that hadn't received some or all of their shots yet.

Is the goal to get accurate and complete data, or just enough to help support our favorite narrative?

 

[SORT14]

It's played out. They asked for more information (which Vandy has), Vandy said nope.

This isn't as hard as you're making it.

I disagree.
It isn't as simple as you're making it.
But the one thing that is simple, is that unvaccinated are having a worse outcome than vaccinated and the Vandy data is consistent with what we are seeing elsewhere.

 

[SORT14]

Do they have access to basic information about the covid patients such as age, shot status, and underlying health conditions?

Yes.

They provided none of the information on age. They were asked to provide it. They said they had provided all they would.

They DID claim that the 'majority' of the 'vaccinated' have underlying conditions that compromised their immune systems.

That's an insanely vague claim, but why didn't they clarify if the same held true for those that weren't 'vaccinated'? Because we know if they had the data for the 'vaccinated', they had it for those that hadn't received some or all of their shots yet.

Is the goal to get accurate and complete data, or just enough to help support our favorite narrative?

And you think that because they didn't tweet all that information that this means there is a conspiracy (in which Vandy is a part of) to mislead you?

 

[gator1776]

Ghost is basically a character from the Crucible. If he lived in the 17th century he would have had countless “witches” burned at the stake with his diabolical recriminations.

Me to @SORT14 when he begs me to recant my beliefs in vaccination before I am hung by the Salem magistrate @GhostOfMatchesMalone from Boston., “….BECAUSE IT IS MY NAME!!!!!!”

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

And you think that because they didn't tweet all that information that this means there is a conspiracy (in which Vandy is a part of) to mislead you?

It's not that they didn't tweet the information. It's that they didn't tweet the information (that they have), and were asked to supply it, and they said nope.

Again, this isn't as hard as you are making it.

What if Vandy reported that 99% of covid patients at its hospitals are fully vaxxed? You'd be shocked and demand more information.

What if Vandy refused to provide that information? What would you think?

Again, this isn't as hard as you are making it.

 

[gator1776]

Man, I never realize Vanderbilt was out to get us too.

 

[SORT14]

It's not that they didn't tweet the information. It's that they didn't tweet the information (that they have), and were asked to supply it, and they said nope.

Again, this isn't as hard as you are making it.

What if Vandy reported that 99% of covid patients at its hospitals are fully vaxxed? You'd be shocked and demand more information.

What if Vandy refused to provide that information? What would you think?

Again, this isn't as hard as you are making it.

A lot of what if. I think you are actually making it harder than it is. You are inferring intent based upon a twitter exchange. It is a stretch to conclude there is a conspiracy or nefarious intent based upon such a small amount of information.
If you really want the Vandy data, contact them and ask for it.
But I will restate my question to you in order to get on common ground for a meaningful discussion. Do you think Vandy is part of a larger conspiracy to mislead you about COVID numbers?

 

[SORT14]

Man, I never realize Vanderbilt was how to get us too.

In my previous research on conspiracy theorists (CT), I found, according to the literature, that it is typical of a CT to a) make claims that aren't falsifiable and b)widen the conspiracy when convenient. There are several other tactics to keep the conspiracy going, but these two are very common.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

A lot of what if. I think you are actually making it harder than it is. You are inferring intent based upon a twitter exchange. It is a stretch to conclude there is a conspiracy or nefarious intent based upon such a small amount of information.
If you really want the Vandy data, contact them and ask for it.
But I will restate my question to you in order to get on common ground for a meaningful discussion. Do you think Vandy is part of a larger conspiracy to mislead you about COVID numbers?

Vandy has the data. Vandy did not give the data. Vandy was asked for the data, which Vandy has.

Vandy said no.

So Vandy is purposely withholding information.

Maybe it's due to incompetence.

Maybe it's due to nefarious intent.

Or maybe the people in charge of that data at Vandy are simply activists. Maybe they truly believe that shots are the best alternative to stopping covid.

Maybe they think they are smarter than us and we aren't smart enough to decide for ourselves what form of treatment is best.

Why do you ask about conspiracy theories? Do I think @gator1776 has a vested interest in misleading people here? Of course I do, because he has, and because he's admitted it privately. I'm sure in his mind he truly believes his actions are right and just.

Do I think he's part of some vast conspiracy network along with Vandy? Of course not. You don't have to be part of a network to act nefariously, now you are just being silly beyond belief.

Vandy has data. Vandy is purposely omitting data and giving an incomplete picture of reality.

People asked Vandy to provide the data, and Vandy said no.

You are hung up on intent. I am hung up on what happened.

This isn't as hard as you are making it.

 

[gator1776]

Vandy has the data. Vandy did not give the data. Vandy was asked for the data, which Vandy has.

Vandy said no.

So Vandy is purposely withholding information.

Maybe it's due to incompetence.

Maybe it's due to nefarious intent.

Or maybe the people in charge of that data at Vandy are simply activists. Maybe they truly believe that shots are the best alternative to stopping covid.

Maybe they think they are smarter than us and we aren't smart enough to decide for ourselves what form of treatment is best.

Why do you ask about conspiracy theories? Do I think @gator1776 has a vested interest in misleading people here? Of course I do, because he has, and because he's admitted it privately. I'm sure in his mind he truly believes his actions are right and just.

Do I think he's part of some vast conspiracy network along with Vandy? Of course not. You don't have to be part of a network to act nefariously, now you are just being silly beyond belief.

Vandy has data. Vandy is purposely omitting data and giving an incomplete picture of reality.

People asked Vandy to provide the data, and Vandy said no.

You are hung up on intent. I am hung up on what happened.

This isn't as hard as you are making it.

Admitted what privately, you lost me on that?I’ve never admitted anything to you privately. And what was it that I supposedly to miss lead people on?

to my knowledge I have never spoken to you outside of this board so I can I do anything privately to you?

 

[SORT14]

Vandy has the data. Vandy did not give the data. Vandy was asked for the data, which Vandy has.

Vandy said no.

So Vandy is purposely withholding information.

Maybe it's due to incompetence.

Maybe it's due to nefarious intent.

Or maybe the people in charge of that data at Vandy are simply activists. Maybe they truly believe that shots are the best alternative to stopping covid.

Maybe they think they are smarter than us and we aren't smart enough to decide for ourselves what form of treatment is best.

Why do you ask about conspiracy theories? Do I think @gator1776 has a vested interest in misleading people here? Of course I do, because he has, and because he's admitted it privately. I'm sure in his mind he truly believes his actions are right and just.

Do I think he's part of some vast conspiracy network along with Vandy? Of course not. You don't have to be part of a network to act nefariously, now you are just being silly beyond belief.

Vandy has data. Vandy is purposely omitting data and giving an incomplete picture of reality.

People asked Vandy to provide the data, and Vandy said no.

You are hung up on intent. I am hung up on what happened.

This isn't as hard as you are making it.

No, I am not making this hard at all. I'm making it easy by stating there isn't any evidence in this twitter exchange to indicate a reason to not believe the statistics Vandy provided.
But in the tweet exchange, the person providing the tweet (who may just simply be a social media account manager) stated they would pass along that request, which indicates the tweeter didn't know the answer. When I stated to let it play out, this was why. Perhaps there is someone who will provide that data. Perhaps not - let it play out.
Ok, so we are on the same page, you do not believe that Vandy or anyone else is out to mislead you regarding COVID data, but your general complain is data reporting inconsistencies. If this is the case, then great, now we can work on the logical issues.
If you don't agree with this, just let me know.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

In my previous research on conspiracy theorists (CT), I found, according to the literature, that it is typical of a CT to a) make claims that aren't falsifiable and b)widen the conspiracy when convenient. There are several other tactics to keep the conspiracy going, but these two are very common.

Do you believe any medical information presented about covid by any medical professional?

You keep mentioning the findings are 'consistent' with what you've seen elsewhere regarding covid. Is that your main criteria for whether or not you question data? If it's consistent you accept, if it isn't, you question?

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Ok, so we are on the same page, you do not believe that Vandy or anyone else is out to mislead you regarding COVID data,

How in the world did you conclude that from me rejecting your question about Vandy being part of a conspiracy theory?

?

 

[SORT14]

How in the world did you conclude that from me rejecting your question about Vandy being part of a conspiracy theory?

?

Answering a question with a question is a way to avoid answering.

So we can level set, just answer the question yes or no - do you think there is a conspiracy to mislead you about COVID numbers?

Then we can move forward from there.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

No, I am not making this hard at all. I'm making it easy by stating there isn't any evidence in this twitter exchange to indicate a reason to not believe the statistics Vandy provided

No one is questioning the data presented. People are questioning why some data was omitted.

Vandy said they've given all they plan on giving.

I, and others, have pointed out there is additional data Vandy could be providing, but they choose not to. I question why, and as a result question the validity of the data as presented because it could potentially give us an incomplete picture of what the data is telling us.

Your stance seems to be the picture Vandy is painting with the data is consistent with what you've seen elsewhere, so all good to you.

Ok then.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Answering a question with a question is a way to avoid answering

I answered your question. Then you turned around and claimed that my answer meant I was actually saying something completely different.

That is a tactic a child uses when they are losing an argument.

Do you blindly believe any medical data on covid as long as the conclusion is one you like?

 

[SORT14]

No one is questioning the data presented. People are questioning why some data was omitted.

Vandy said they've given all they plan on giving.

I, and others, have pointed out there is additional data Vandy could be providing, but they choose not to. I question why, and as a result question the validity of the data as presented because it could potentially give us an incomplete picture of what the data is telling us.

Your stance seems to be the picture Vandy is painting with the data is consistent with what you've seen elsewhere, so all good to you.

Ok then.

I answered your question. Then you turned around and claimed that my answer meant I was actually saying something completely different.

That is a tactic a child uses when they are losing an argument.

Do you blindly believe any medical data on covid as long as the conclusion is one you like?

Consolidating.
So, instead of getting angry and calling names, let's try to start from square one.
Do you believe there is a conspiracy to mislead you on COVID data?
Just provide a one word answer, yes or no. Then we can move on from there.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Consolidating.
So, instead of getting angry and calling names, let's try to start from square one.
Do you believe there is a conspiracy to mislead you on COVID data?
Just provide a one word answer, yes or no. Then we can move on from there.

Actually we can't, because you apparently don't understand the definition of the word 'conspiracy'.

A conspiracy means a group of people are acting together for nefarious intent. You asked me if I believed Vandy was part of a conspiracy to present misleading info about covid.

I said no. You then claimed that meant I was saying that NO ONE was attempting to mislead ANYONE about covid.

That proves you either don't understand what a conspiracy is, or you do and you are intentionally claiming I said something I did not.


Asking again: Do you blindly believe any medical data on covid as long as the conclusion is one you like?

 

[SORT14]

Actually we can't, because you apparently don't understand the definition of the word 'conspiracy'.

A conspiracy means a group of people are acting together for nefarious intent. You asked me if I believed Vandy was part of a conspiracy to present misleading info about covid.

I said no. You then claimed that meant I was saying that NO ONE was attempting to mislead ANYONE about covid.

That proves you either don't understand what a conspiracy is, or you do and you are intentionally claiming I said something I did not.


Asking again: Do you blindly believe any medical data on covid as long as the conclusion is one you like?

I wasn't making a claim about you, I was stating my understanding and asking you if that was true.
Now we know - you do not think Vandy's tweet is conspiratorial. Super.

To your question: Asking again: Do you blindly believe any medical data on covid as long as the conclusion is one you like?

My answer is no.
Though you did try a fast one here - you stated the conclusion is one "I like". There is no conclusion that I prefer.

But let's break out your question as to address the unnecessary innuendos:
Q1: Do I blindly believe any medical data? Answer: No.
Q2: Do I like a certain conclusion over another as it relates to covid data/studies? No.

Now, to my second question:
Should we believe Vandy's statistics that they reported in the tweet support the notion that vaccinated individuals experience a superior COVID related outcome when compared to unvaccinated individuals (this can be yes or no)?
Edited for clarity.

 

[gator1776]

I wasn't making a claim about you, I was stating my understanding and asking you if that was true.
Now we know - you do not think Vandy's tweet is conspiratorial. Super.

To your question: Asking again: Do you blindly believe any medical data on covid as long as the conclusion is one you like?

My answer is no.
Though you did try a fast one here - you stated the conclusion is one "I like". There is no conclusion that I prefer.

But let's break out your question as to address the unnecessary innuendos:
Q1: Do I blindly believe any medical data? Answer: No.
Q2: Do I like a certain conclusion over another as it relates to covid data/studies? No.

Now, to my second question:
Should we believe Vandy's statistics that they reported in the tweet support the notion that vaccinated individuals experience a superior COVID related outcome when compared to unvaccinated individuals (this can be yes or no)?
Edited for clarity.

I’m still trying to figure out what I supposedly miss lead people about that I admitted to him in private when I’ve never talk to him in private.

🤣🤣

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Now, to my second question:
Should we believe Vandy's statistics that they reported in the tweet support the notion that vaccinated individuals experience a superior COVID related outcome when compared to unvaccinated individuals (this can be yes or no)?
Edited for clarity.

I think 'should we believe Vandy's statistics as presented?' is a far more interesting question.

When I read the tweet, I immediately noted the clarification that said that the majority of those counted as 'vaccinated' had underlying issues that compromised their immune systems.

I immediately had two questions:

1 - Why not just give us the percentage? A majority could be 99.9% or it could be 50.1%.
2 - Why not give the same level of clarity to the 'non-vaccinated'?

I do find it fascinating how we both looked at the same data and immediately drew far different conclusions.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

I wasn't making a claim about you, I was stating my understanding and asking you if that was true.
Now we know - you do not think Vandy's tweet is conspiratorial. Super.

Again, I am saying I don't think Vandy is part of an organized conspiracy to intentionally spread misleading data about covid.

They don't have to be working with anyone as part of a conspiracy in order to do that.

And they DID do that. They intentionally left out data that would have painted a more complete picture. They were asked to provide that additional data, and refused.

You can question their intent, but you cannot question what happened. It's all there for anyone to read.

 

[SORT14]

I think 'should we believe Vandy's statistics as presented?' is a far more interesting question.

When I read the tweet, I immediately noted the clarification that said that the majority of those counted as 'vaccinated' had underlying issues that compromised their immune systems.

I immediately had two questions:

1 - Why not just give us the percentage? A majority could be 99.9% or it could be 50.1%.
2 - Why not give the same level of clarity to the 'non-vaccinated'?

I do find it fascinating how we both looked at the same data and immediately drew far different conclusions.

I don't think we came to very different conclusions. I agree with your two questions and I think they are fair. I just didn't read any intent to mislead from a tweet.

Again, I am saying I don't think Vandy is part of an organized conspiracy to intentionally spread misleading data about covid.

They don't have to be working with anyone as part of a conspiracy in order to do that.

And they DID do that. They intentionally left out data that would have painted a more complete picture. They were asked to provide that additional data, and refused.

You can question their intent, but you cannot question what happened. It's all there for anyone to read.

You think Vandy is intentionally spreading misinformation with that tweet?

I think it is reasonable to conclude that everything is not guaranteed to be "all there" in a tweet.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

You think Vandy is intentionally spreading misinformation with that tweet?

I think it is reasonable to conclude that everything is not guaranteed to be "all there" in a tweet.

Yes. They have additional information about the patients that they have stated they aren't going to share.

Let's say Bob says his sales at his diner are down 20% so far this week, and he concludes that it's due to pro-shot protestors outside his business.

You ask Bob if his diner was open Monday, since it was Labor Day.

Bob says he's given you all the information he's going to.

Do you think Bob is intentionally being misleading?

 

[SORT14]

Yes. They have additional information about the patients that they have stated they aren't going to share.

Let's say Bob says his sales at his diner are down 20% so far this week, and he concludes that it's due to pro-shot protestors outside his business.

You ask Bob if his diner was open Monday, since it was Labor Day.

Bob says he's given you all the information he's going to.

Do you think Bob is intentionally being misleading?

Why do you leave out that the request would get passed along?

Anyways, that is what I wanted to know. You are free to think what you like about the Vandy data. I read the Twitter thread, and I think Vandy could have done a better job of being transparent. I’d like to see a further breakdown of the data as well. But, IMO, their data is believable given that there is a) no reason to suspect them of lying and b) it is consistent with what is being reported at other hospitals.

 

[fatman76]

FVCK JOE BIDEN.

Biden Regime Drops Iron Fist on Private Sector: Will Require Vaccines or Weekly Covid Testing - Employers That Don't Comply will Face "Substantial Fines" | The Gateway Pundit | by Cristina Laila

The Biden Regime will be dropping the iron fist on the private sector by requiring all employees get jabbed or tested weekly for Covid… OR ELSE.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

That is all.

 

[gator1776]

SHOTS FIRED ON PHYSICIANS WHO ARE ANTI-VACCINE.
Threatens doctors that providing misinformation about COVID19 vaccine may lead to loss of medical license and/or board certification. These are the primary licensing and certifying agencies of physicians. They would NEVER make this statement without overwhelming medical evidence that the vaccine showed far more benefit than harm.

The Federation of State Medical Boards (FSMB), which supports its member state medical licensing boards, has recently issued a statement saying that providing misinformation about the COVID-19 vaccine contradicts physicians’ ethical and professional responsibilities, and therefore may subject a physician to disciplinary actions, including suspension or revocation of their medical license. We at the American Board of Family Medicine (ABFM), the American Board of Internal Medicine (ABIM), and the American Board of Pediatrics (ABP) support FSMB’s position. We also want all physicians certified by our Boards to know that such unethical or unprofessional conduct may prompt their respective Board to take action that could put their certification at risk. Expertise matters, and board-certified physicians have demonstrated that they have stayed current in their field. Spreading misinformation or falsehoods to the public during a time of a public health emergency goes against everything our Boards and our community of board-certified physicians stand for. The evidence that we have safe, effective and widely available vaccines against COVID-19 is overwhelming. We are particularly concerned about physicians who use their authority to denigrate vaccination at a time when vaccines continue to demonstrate excellent effectiveness against severe illness, hospitalization and death. We all look to board-certified physicians to provide outstanding care and guidance; providing misinformation about a lethal disease is unethical, unprofessional and dangerous. In times of medical emergency, the community of expert physicians committed to science and evidence collectively shares a responsibility for giving the public the most accurate and timely health information available, so they can make decisions that work best for themselves and their families. Warren Newton, MD, MPH President and CEO American Board of Family Medicine Richard J. Baron, MD President and CEO American Board of Internal Medicine David G. Nichols, MD, MBA President and CEO American Board of Pediatrics

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

FVCK JOE BIDEN.

Biden Regime Drops Iron Fist on Private Sector: Will Require Vaccines or Weekly Covid Testing - Employers That Don't Comply will Face "Substantial Fines" | The Gateway Pundit | by Cristina Laila

The Biden Regime will be dropping the iron fist on the private sector by requiring all employees get jabbed or tested weekly for Covid… OR ELSE.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

That is all.

Anyone here that still thinks this is about covid?

 

[gator1776]

Anyone here that still thinks this is about covid?

Me, although I do think Biden frequently uses Covid to change the topic, this still remains about Covid.

Why would making the condition of either getting the vaccine or required once a week testing in order to keep your federal job be about anything other than Covid? We all know that these sort of requirements have been upheld legally over and over again because putting a requirement upon work of this nature is not unreasonable per the law.

Why do you think this is about something other than Covid?

 

[SORT14]

Me, although I do think Biden frequently uses Covid to change the topic, this still remains about Covid.

Why would making the condition of either getting the vaccine or required once a week testing in order to keep your federal job be about anything other than Covid? We all know that these sort of requirements have been upheld legally over and over again because putting a requirement upon work of this nature is not unreasonable per the law.

Why do you think this is about something other than Covid?

Good point. I think COVID is about COVID and it isn’t surprising that politicians politicize it, since that is what they do. But mandating vaccines for federal employees is nothing new. I had a host of shots when I was active duty

 

[gator1776]

Good point. I think COVID is about COVID and it isn’t surprising that politicians politicize it, since that is what they do. But mandating vaccines for federal employees is nothing new. I had a host of shots when I was active duty

As did I

Not to mention they’re not even requiring that you get the vaccine there’s simply saying if you choose not to get the vaccine then you must be tested once a week for the time being to ensure that you do not have active Covid while you’re around other people exposing them.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

FVCK JOE BIDEN.

Biden Regime Drops Iron Fist on Private Sector: Will Require Vaccines or Weekly Covid Testing - Employers That Don't Comply will Face "Substantial Fines" | The Gateway Pundit | by Cristina Laila

The Biden Regime will be dropping the iron fist on the private sector by requiring all employees get jabbed or tested weekly for Covid… OR ELSE.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

That is all.

One step closer to copying China's Social Credit Score.

 

[fatman76]

View embedded media

One step closer to copying China's Social Credit Score.

Prediction:
This will have no effect on the pandemic.

We will come down the other side of delta like we would anyway and it’ll all start over with a new variant.

 

[jfegaly]

Me, although I do think Biden frequently uses Covid to change the topic, this still remains about Covid.

Why would making the condition of either getting the vaccine or required once a week testing in order to keep your federal job be about anything other than Covid? We all know that these sort of requirements have been upheld legally over and over again because putting a requirement upon work of this nature is not unreasonable per the law.

Why do you think this is about something other than Covid?

I think covid was created in a lab in wuhan and intentionally released at a perfect time to remove a president that scared the beejesus out of the powers that be. Covid was a tool that equates to change, power grabs and money.

Too many dots. Lots of circumstantial evidence.

 

[Gator Fever]

TV: 14 Israelis who got 3rd shot later infected with COVID-19

Limited data not enough to draw conclusions on booster's effectiveness; ministers said to fight over potential lockdown, restriction exemption for shuls

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Prediction:
This will have no effect on the pandemic.

We will come down the other side of delta like we would anyway and it’ll all start over with a new variant.

What typically happens when a virus such as coronavirus has a new variant?

The new variant typically is far more contagious, but it's not as deadly.

For the last few months, what has been the selling point for getting the shot?

Well you will still get covid, but if you do get sick, it likely won't be as bad.

Hmmmm.....what exactly is the shot doing?

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

I think covid was created in a lab in wuhan and intentionally released at a perfect time to remove a president that scared the beejesus out of the powers that be. Covid was a tool that equates to change, power grabs and money.

Too many dots. Lots of circumstantial evidence.

I agree. And if you are right, that raises a very scary question:

Did China do this alone, or with help from the dems?

But hey, I'm sure all this silliness about mandate this, lockdown that is all just politics!

We could ask the people of Australia what they think....no wait, we can't.

But hey, all good, as long as you've gotten the jab!

 

[gator1776]

Hmmmm.....what exactly is the shot doing?

Lowering your risk of dying

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Lowering your risk of dying

The delta variant does that by itself.

Try again.