Proprietary COVID-19 and Vaccine thread

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

This is an appeal to definition. I don't care if we call it a COVID treatment or vaccine. "Vaccine" is the universally used term even if it doesn't meet a strict definition. But what we call it doesn't have any impact on its efficacy. It's just a word

It doesn't impact the efficacy of the treatment, but it does impact how the treatment is viewed.

When people hear the word vaccine, they hear immunity. These shots don't give immunity to covid. Not even close.

Be honest about what the shots are, and what they aren't.

The irony is, I am giving you guys the playbook for getting more people to take the shots, and you guys won't accept it.

 

[SORT14]

It doesn't impact the efficacy of the treatment, but it does impact how the treatment is viewed.

When people hear the word vaccine, they hear immunity. These shots don't give immunity to covid. Not even close.

Be honest about what the shots are, and what they aren't.

The irony is, I am giving you guys the playbook for getting more people to take the shots, and you guys won't accept it.

You’re not really giving me anything. I don’t need a playbook either, as I have no okay here other than to let people discuss and make informed decisions.
So, if I say it isn’t technically a vaccine then you will run down and take the “treatment”?

 

[jfegaly]

You’re not really giving me anything. I don’t need a playbook either, as I have no okay here other than to let people discuss and make informed decisions.
So, if I say it isn’t technically a vaccine then you will run down and take the “treatment”?

I can see both sides on this. That being said, I get ghosts point, and I think part of it is…..we keep hearing these politicians (and yes I include fauci, the cdc etc as politicians because they are) using the word “misinformation” alot. That being said, they aren’t applying it evenly across the board. Only, when the argument goes against their narrative do they call things misinformation. Meanwhile, their own “misinformation” is what has caused alot of the hesitation to believe anything “they” say. We need to be “scientific”. “Follow the science” etc…..Well if that is the case, should we not be FACTUAL about everything?

The not going to bend, I am right no matter what mentality applies on both sides here. Pride is a bitch. For example. If you show me a horse, and call it a cow….we can’t just say….oh, it’s semantics, because someone’s pride gets in the way. It impacts the credibility of the person calling it a cow. Whether anyone acknowledges it or not is irrelevant. The result is the same.

Just my two cents.

There is a reason folks don’t want to listen to fauci anymore. It’s not because he has been wrong, it’s because of the way he has dealt with being wrong. Almost defiant.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

You’re not really giving me anything. I don’t need a playbook either, as I have no okay here other than to let people discuss and make informed decisions.
So, if I say it isn’t technically a vaccine then you will run down and take the “treatment”?

If everyone had been honest about what these shots are and aren't for the last 18 months, I would absolutely 100% be more open to taking them.

I simply do not trust the people pushing these shots, because they aren't telling me the full truth about them.

Tell me the full truth, be as wiling to discuss the negative as you are the positive, and you'll start to gain my trust, and my attention.

When I think I'm talking to someone that's being dishonest, I immediately tune out.

Just human nature. Be honest and open and people will listen. Some people make this a lot harder than it needs to be.

 

[SORT14]

I can see both sides on this. That being said, I get ghosts point, and I think part of it is…..we keep hearing these politicians (and yes I include fauci, the cdc etc as politicians because they are) using the word “misinformation” alot. That being said, they aren’t applying it evenly across the board. Only, when the argument goes against their narrative do they call things misinformation. Meanwhile, their own “misinformation” is what has caused alot of the hesitation to believe anything “they” say. We need to be “scientific”. “Follow the science” etc…..Well if that is the case, should we not be FACTUAL about everything?

The not going to bend, I am right no matter what mentality applies on both sides here. Pride is a bitch. For example. If you show me a horse, and call it a cow….we can’t just say….oh, it’s semantics, because someone’s pride gets in the way. It impacts the credibility of the person calling it a cow. Whether anyone acknowledges it or not is irrelevant. The result is the same.

Just my two cents.

There is a reason folks don’t want to listen to fauci anymore. It’s not because he has been wrong, it’s because of the way he has dealt with being wrong. Almost defiant.

There's nothing in there that I fundamentally disagree with. I will reiterate my general rule, it is that I don't discuss politics online (it's pointless). @GhostOfMatchesMalone may have a point to make, I'm just asking that he make it in a way that I can easily digest so we can try to get to the root of whatever issue there is /are.
Yes, we should be as factual as possible about everything while allowing for knowledge to evolve over time. If your beef is with one person (gonna take a stab and guess it is @gator1776 ), then hash that out with him. But don't let it undermine what is otherwise a fairly productive thread about an important issue (which I'm not accusing you of, but just offering my two cents there).
I don't listen to Fauci either. I listen to independent researchers and doctors and nurses who work directly in hospitals. They are the 'boots on the ground', not politicians IMO. They are the subject matter experts and they fuel my own research. And they are generally right much more often than they are wrong. I can't ignore that.

 

[jfegaly]

There's nothing in there that I fundamentally disagree with. I will reiterate my general rule, it is that I don't discuss politics online (it's pointless). @GhostOfMatchesMalone may have a point to make, I'm just asking that he make it in a way that I can easily digest so we can try to get to the root of whatever issue there is /are.
Yes, we should be as factual as possible about everything while allowing for knowledge to evolve over time. If your beef is with one person (gonna take a stab and guess it is @gator1776 ), then hash that out with him. But don't let it undermine what is otherwise a fairly productive thread about an important issue (which I'm not accusing you of, but just offering my two cents there).
I don't listen to Fauci either. I listen to independent researchers and doctors and nurses who work directly in hospitals. They are the 'boots on the ground', not politicians IMO. They are the subject matter experts and they fuel my own research. And they are generally right much more often than they are wrong. I can't ignore that.

It was not directed at any single person. It’s an umbrella, anyone who takes cover under it, apply it.

 

[SORT14]

If everyone had been honest about what these shots are and aren't for the last 18 months, I would absolutely 100% be more open to taking them.

I simply do not trust the people pushing these shots, because they aren't telling me the full truth about them.

Tell me the full truth, be as wiling to discuss the negative as you are the positive, and you'll start to gain my trust, and my attention.

When I think I'm talking to someone that's being dishonest, I immediately tune out.

Just human nature. Be honest and open and people will listen. Some people make this a lot harder than it needs to be.

I don't disagree with any of this. Other than letting my disagreement with a person at an individual level impact my willingness to engage in best practices as it pertains to health. I didn't want to get the vaccine at first because I despised some of the social pressures and the thought of conforming or 'bending the knee' to the woke mob was sickening. But that was pride. I am fortunate enough to have significant experience and training in the consumption of scientific literature and statistical methodologies, so I was able to conduct enough of my own research to conclude in my decision to get vaccinated. Removing the personal feelings from the equation makes it a little more black and white.
I too wish for honest and open dialogue, but that is a big ask from any politician. Forget them. With what is going on in hospitals, the very real threat of COVID is highly tangible and so is the efficacy of vaccinations. Wash all the other BS away, and it was an easy decision for me (after discussing it with my personal doctor), as I have no underlying health issues.

 

[SORT14]

It was not directed at any single person. It’s an umbrella, anyone who takes cover under it, apply it.

Was just a guess on my part lol

 

[jfegaly]

I will let your words speak for itself. 😉

@SORT14

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

Like I said, I'm totally fine with adding the politicization element to this thread. It's a very interesting discussion, plus it will further marginalize the claims from certain posters, which I think is beneficial to all.

Now back on topic: @Uniformed_ReRe ignored my point, so let's revist:

During all of 2020, we were told by the dems here that covid cases and deaths spiking meant Trump had to go. All cases and deaths fell directly on his shoulders, and they used it as Exihibit A for why we had to bring in 'an adult' like Hiden to handle covid. Hiden himself said we needed to bring in him cause he had 'a plan' to handle covid.

In the last year, covid cases are up 328%.

Deaths are up 50%.

And as we see from this board, the dems like @Uniformed_ReRe apparently could care less.

Isn't that interesting? It suggests that the hand-wringing over covid from the dems was all political theater.

In fact, when pressed, @Uniformed_ReRe refused to place any blame for the spike in covid cases and deaths at Hiden's feet. He instead claimed that THOSE WHO HAVEN"T TAKEN THE SHOT are responsible for the spikes.

Let's again do the math: A year ago, we had no shots. So 0% of the population had taken the shots.

Today, we have the shots. Hiden's administration claims 70% of the population has taken the shot.

So how are cases and deaths spiking at the same time that the percentage of the population who has taken the shot is increasing at a much faster rate?

If @Uniformed_ReRe is right, how is 30% of the population responsible for MORE covid cases and deaths than 100% of the population was a year ago?

Of course, this is nonsensical to the absurd.

But it does raise some very elementary questions:

How are covid cases and deaths spiking as the percentage vaccinated does at the same time?

Doesn't that suggest that these shots aren't vaccines at all, and in fact that they don't work?

Of course it does.

So then if the shots don't work, why are they being pushed on us so hard?

In addition, why are promising treatments like HCQ and Ivermectin beng demonized at the same time?

It's clear that certain forces are desperate for us to take the shot. It's equally clear that the shots don't do what they are promised to do.

A lot of questions for the intelligent and impartial to ponder.

I am not a democrat and I never blamed Trump for COVID, nor did I every say anything like “All cases and deaths fell directly on his shoulders.” This kind of hyperbolic dishonesty is why I called you toxic and diabolical.

And there is no question that the refusal of many to get vaccinated has significantly increased the number of COVID deaths.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

I am not a democrat and I never blamed Trump for COVID, nor did I every say anything like “All cases and deaths fell directly on his shoulders.” This kind of hyperbolic dishonesty is why I called you toxic and diabolical.

And there is no question that the refusal of many to get vaccinated has significantly increased the number of COVID deaths.

Cases are up.
Deaths are up.
Number of people who have taken the shots are up.

The only thing going down....is the number of people who haven't gotten the shot.

 

[gatordad3]

College football’s crazed opening weekend delivers ‘fearmongers a giant middle finger’

 

[gator1776]

College football’s crazed opening weekend delivers ‘fearmongers a giant middle finger’

Hahaha, lets just hope the incubation period doesn't deliver this post a giant middle finger.

 

[gator1776]

There's nothing in there that I fundamentally disagree with. I will reiterate my general rule, it is that I don't discuss politics online (it's pointless). @GhostOfMatchesMalone may have a point to make, I'm just asking that he make it in a way that I can easily digest so we can try to get to the root of whatever issue there is /are.
Yes, we should be as factual as possible about everything while allowing for knowledge to evolve over time. If your beef is with one person (gonna take a stab and guess it is @gator1776 ), then hash that out with him. But don't let it undermine what is otherwise a fairly productive thread about an important issue (which I'm not accusing you of, but just offering my two cents there).
I don't listen to Fauci either. I listen to independent researchers and doctors and nurses who work directly in hospitals. They are the 'boots on the ground', not politicians IMO. They are the subject matter experts and they fuel my own research. And they are generally right much more often than they are wrong. I can't ignore that.

Here is some good news that is not just semantical arguments for ad hominem sake. Numbers keep going down.

We now have 227 COVID positive admissions across the system.



Hospital One

Census: 478 (ED holds: 10, PACU holds: 3)

Available Non-COVID Med/Surg Beds: 43

Available ICUs: 3

COVID Unit Census: 143

COVID Unit beds available: 12

ED visits: 110

FED visits: 60

Confirmed COVID positive inpatients: 145 (118 unvaccinated)



Hospital two

Census: 186 (ER Boarders: 6)

Available Non-COVID Med/Surg Beds: 3

Available ICUs: None

COVID Unit Census: 66

COVID Unit beds available: None

ED visits: 90

FED visits: 67

Confirmed COVID positive inpatients: 66 (59 unvaccinated)



Hospital 3

Census: 57 (2 patients boarding in ED)

Available Non-COVID beds: 0

Available ICU beds: 1

COVID Unit census: 12

COVID Unit beds available: 1

ED visits: 44

Confirmed COVID positive inpatients: 16 (13 unvaccinated)

 

[SORT14]

Here is some good news that is not just semantical arguments for ad hominem sake. Numbers keep going down.

We now have 227 COVID positive admissions across the system.



Hospital One

Census: 478 (ED holds: 10, PACU holds: 3)

Available Non-COVID Med/Surg Beds: 43

Available ICUs: 3

COVID Unit Census: 143

COVID Unit beds available: 12

ED visits: 110

FED visits: 60

Confirmed COVID positive inpatients: 145 (118 unvaccinated)



Hospital two

Census: 186 (ER Boarders: 6)

Available Non-COVID Med/Surg Beds: 3

Available ICUs: None

COVID Unit Census: 66

COVID Unit beds available: None

ED visits: 90

FED visits: 67

Confirmed COVID positive inpatients: 66 (59 unvaccinated)



Hospital 3

Census: 57 (2 patients boarding in ED)

Available Non-COVID beds: 0

Available ICU beds: 1

COVID Unit census: 12

COVID Unit beds available: 1

ED visits: 44

Confirmed COVID positive inpatients: 16 (13 unvaccinated)

83.7% unvaccinated overall. Again, highly compelling data.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Hahaha, lets just hope the incubation period doesn't deliver this post a giant middle finger.

Wouldn't it be giving you one?

You've claimed get the shot, you are less likely to get covid, but if you do, less likely to go to the hospital.

How can we expect a surge in cases in 14 days if 70% of the people at the games will have gotten the shot?

Are you admitting the shot doesn't work? Because the CDC already has.

 

[gator1776]

83.7% unvaccinated overall. Again, highly compelling data.

And I’m not posting it but the intensive care unit unvaccinated rate is over 95% and the ventilated Unvaccinated rate is 97%.

 

[SORT14]

Wouldn't it be giving you one?

You've claimed get the shot, you are less likely to get covid, but if you do, less likely to go to the hospital.

How can we expect a surge in cases in 14 days if 70% of the people at the games will have gotten the shot?

Are you admitting the shot doesn't work? Because the CDC already has.

Getting the shot does reduce the probability of getting infected and hospitalization. But it doesn't eliminate either. So if it is a linear phenomenon, then more people (vaxxed and unvaxxed) get exposed to the virus then yes the raw number for each will go up. But the proportionality (percentages) should only see minor changes.

 

[SORT14]

And I’m not posting it but the intensive care unit unvaccinated rate is over 95% and the ventilated Unvaccinated rate is 97%.

Very important additional info

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Getting the shot does reduce the probability of getting infected and hospitalization. But it doesn't eliminate either.

I didn't say it did. I said the same thing you just said.

I guess I just suck at math, or at least at covid math.

If number of people getting the shots keeps going up, the number of new cases should consistently decrease.

To me, this is just common sense.

If the cases come predominantly from those who havent gotten the shot, and that pool of people shrinks every day, then new cases should be shrinking as well.

UNLESS......the shots aren't doing what we were told they do.

 

[SORT14]

I didn't say it did. I said the same thing you just said.

I guess I just suck at math, or at least at covid math.

If number of people getting the shots keeps going up, the number of new cases should consistently decrease.

To me, this is just common sense.

If the cases come predominantly from those who havent gotten the shot, and that pool of people shrinks every day, then new cases should be shrinking as well.

UNLESS......the shots aren't doing what we were told they do.

There is unlikely to be a perfectly inverse relationship between the prevalence of vaccination and that of new cases. The numbers will be a bit wonky for a while until they start to converge at a fairly consistent confidence interval. This is because many other things are in play, but the main one is a lag effect in data collection.

 

[Gator Fever]

So this is how low the big money people will go to keep their money rolling in. Other false stories produced like this also in the last few days.

They 100% know how effective this stuff is and its why we are seeing this crap.

 

[SORT14]

View embedded media

So this is how low the big money people will go to keep their money rolling in. Other false stories produced like this also in the last few days.

They 100% know how effective this stuff is and its why we are seeing this crap.

Which is why you get your information from primary sources, not Rachel Maddow smh.

 

[Gator Fever]

Which is why you get your information from primary sources, not Rachel Maddow smh.

This crap spread all over mainstream lefty media on the internet etc. along with other false stories because the media is controlled by the crooks that would rather make huge money than save more people.

 

[SORT14]

This crap spread all over mainstream lefty media on the internet etc. along with other false stories because the media is controlled by the crooks that would rather make huge money than save more people.

A lot to unpack there, and per personal policy, I don't discuss politics on the web. But to reiterate my main point, please don't consume information regarding important topics from untrustworthy sources.

 

[jfegaly]

74-year-old COVID patient dies amid his family's push for Memorial Hermann to give him ivermectin

The news of Pete Lopez's death comes just a few days after a court ordered Memorial Hermann to give the 74-year-old ivermectin.

abc13.com

 

[gator1776]

74-year-old COVID patient dies amid his family's push for Memorial Hermann to give him ivermectin

The news of Pete Lopez's death comes just a few days after a court ordered Memorial Hermann to give the 74-year-old ivermectin.

abc13.com

Yeah pretty much get the same resistance everywhere. But I’m not a huge proponent of it as y’all know but at this point I wouldn’t mind trying it on a couple of people just to see but where I work they won’t let us. We’re having a big meeting about it on Tuesday because a couple of us want to try it and the pharmacy and hospital will not let us do it. I’m not really sure how they can tell board certified licensed doctors that can or can’t treat some thing with a medication with minimal side effects. It doesn’t have an indication but he’ll have to stuff we use in medicine doesn’t have a FDA indication for it.

 

[jfegaly]

Media duped again. It’s interesting that these liberal media outlets jump so quickly and get fooled so often

@Uniformed_ReRe @kalimgoodman @LizardGrad89

Rachel Maddow, liberal media figures slammed for 'taking the bait' on false story about ivermectin overdoses

A number of mainstream media figures and outlets appeared to have been fooled by last week's false story that some Oklahoma hospitals were being overwhelmed with patients having overdosed on the drug ivermectin, a parasite fighting medication that can also be sold over the counter as a...

www.foxnews.com

 

[gator1776]

Media duped again. It’s interesting that these liberal media outlets jump so quickly and get fooled so often

@Uniformed_ReRe @kalimgoodman @LizardGrad89

Rachel Maddow, liberal media figures slammed for 'taking the bait' on false story about ivermectin overdoses

A number of mainstream media figures and outlets appeared to have been fooled by last week's false story that some Oklahoma hospitals were being overwhelmed with patients having overdosed on the drug ivermectin, a parasite fighting medication that can also be sold over the counter as a...

www.foxnews.com

I laughed pretty hard on this one. Talking about clinic in the ER being full of people taking over victim in the summertime and they’re all wearing coats 🤣🤣🤣

 

[gator1776]

@GhostOfMatchesMalone

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[jfegaly]

Trollin trollin trollin

 

[jfegaly]

74-year-old COVID patient dies amid his family's push for Memorial Hermann to give him ivermectin

The news of Pete Lopez's death comes just a few days after a court ordered Memorial Hermann to give the 74-year-old ivermectin.

abc13.com

Update. He died without ever getting to try Ivermectin

 

[jfegaly]

What have we come to when we let a man die without throwing the kitchen sink at something? Because the medical community is scared of political blowback.

This is a perfect example of why people don’t trust whats going on. Good grief, America is lost.

 

[gator1776]

What have we come to when we let a man die without throwing the kitchen sink at something? Because the medical community is scared of political blowback.

This is a perfect example of why people don’t trust whats going on. Good grief, America is lost.

I don’t think the medical community is scared of political blow back, hell I’d use the crap even though I don’t think it works. Is the damn hospitals and pharmacist that won’t let us use it. I don’t think it’s fair political feedback I think it’s intellectual disingenuous snobbery.

 

[gator1776]

I know internet doctor is doing a victory lap over this, but I honestly didn't view that thread as being about covid. It was about the hypocrisy of the left in how they thought covid cases and deaths under Trump meant the end of the world, but MORE cases and deaths under Hiden doesn't even raise their eyebrows.

Wasn't trying to pull a fast one, I really didn't see it as being about covid. But I'm fine with it being here too.

..

 

[jfegaly]

I don’t think the medical community is scared of political blow back, hell I’d use the crap even though I don’t think it works. Is the damn hospitals and pharmacist that won’t let us use it. I don’t think it’s fair political feedback I think it’s intellectual disingenuous snobbery.

Whatever it is, it’s wrong. I say medical community because I lumped the entire medical industry together. Maybe incorrectly, but the point was….whoever is doing it needs to get the eff over themselves.

 

[gator1776]

Whatever it is, it’s wrong. I say medical community because I lumped the entire medical industry together. Maybe incorrectly, but the point was….whoever is doing it needs to get the eff over themselves.

I agree

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

This crap spread all over mainstream lefty media on the internet etc. along with other false stories because the media is controlled by the crooks that would rather make huge money than save more people.

I suspect we have several dems that are glued to her show. And at least one in this thread.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

@GhostOfMatchesMalone

MSN

www.msn.com

You laughed at people believing the Maddow report, then immediately linked to an article by her bosses.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Update. He died without ever getting to try Ivermectin

This one story perfectly encapsulates why critical thinkers are questioning any and all advice coming from the medical community over the last 18 months.