Proprietary COVID-19 and Vaccine thread

[SORT14]

And so you have a hypothesis but that’s not proof. It’s purely a speculation. The hypothesis is the mass become contaminated and soiled. It leads to the theory that you think they are spreading infection. Now you have And a hypothesis and a theory, the next part of the scientific method is to prove your theory is correct. You have to establish a causative effect. Do the mask that children wear increase Streptococcus infection? Now prove it.

That is the scientific method. Frequently the questions we think are so obvious either can’t be proven or are proven to be wrong when you actually try to do the research.

To add on to this, the scientific method requires two hypotheses: the null and alternative. The null is that there is no evidence to support the alternative. The outcome of the experiment would then result in one of these two hypotheses being accepted or rejected based upon the outcome. If there is some evidence of the alternative hypothesis being true, but not strong enough evidence, then the researcher would fail to reject the null hypothesis without declaring any outcome as "true".

 

[jfegaly]

To add on to this, the scientific method requires two hypotheses: the null and alternative. The null is that there is no evidence to support the alternative. The outcome of the experiment would then result in one of these two hypotheses being accepted or rejected based upon the outcome. If there is some evidence of the alternative hypothesis being true, but not strong enough evidence, then the researcher would fail to reject the null hypothesis without declaring any outcome as "true".

Or the scientist would see where the funding for the research was coming from, manipulate the data (errr statistics) to achieve the desired outcome....because, well.....science.

Science | AAAS

www.science.org

List of scientific misconduct incidents - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Human nature, Pride, and greed can be a SOB.

 

[fatman76]

And so you have a hypothesis but that’s not proof. It’s purely a speculation. The hypothesis is the mass become contaminated and soiled. It leads to the theory that you think they are spreading infection. Now you have And a hypothesis and a theory, the next part of the scientific method is to prove your theory is correct. You have to establish a causative effect. Do the mask that children wear increase Streptococcus infection? Now prove it.

That is the scientific method. Frequently the questions we think are so obvious either can’t be proven or are proven to be wrong when you actually try to do the research.

I understand the scientific method.

You don’t read what people post and your responses are really arrogant…and then you’re shocked when vitriol is the result.

Take notes from @SORT14 on how to talk to people.

 

[SORT14]

Or the scientist would see where the funding for the research was coming from, manipulate the data (errr statistics) to achieve the desired outcome....because, well.....science.

Science | AAAS

www.science.org

List of scientific misconduct incidents - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Human nature, Pride, and greed can be a SOB.

There are a lot of scientific misdeeds. However, relative to the overall body of scientific work, this is small. It is unfortunate, but any endeavor involving humans will also include human fallibilities.

But what is just as certain, is that science is still our best option for understanding the world around us. Many, many scientists (including myself) conduct meta-analyses of a particular phenomenon that has been studied to see what the general consensus is. This is where studies that were erroneous often get exposed. There are other issues as well, such as with reproducibility (being able to run the exact study as the original) and replicability (finding the same results as the original study).

But if you just look at the fraudulent/negligent/crappy studies and ignore the entire work of the scientific community, and use this as a reason to reject science entirely, then you are making a mistake in my opinion.

Edit to add comment: There is a book by Stuart Ritchie called Science Fictions. While I have some strong disagreements with Ritchie's analyses (methodologically), it is a good source for understanding how scientists err and what you should do to learn to properly consume scientific evidence.

 

[SORT14]

I understand the scientific method.

You don’t read what people post and your responses are really arrogant…and then you’re shocked when vitriol is the result.

Take notes from @SORT14 on how to talk to people.

I make the effort to be respectful, and appreciate it when others do the same. I haven't been personally attacked like @gator1776 has (on this board). I've definitely been in my share of internet squabbles in the past lol.

 

[fatman76]

I make the effort to be respectful, and appreciate it when others do the same. I haven't been personally attacked like @gator1776 has (on this board). I've definitely been in my share of internet squabbles in the past lol.

You don’t treat people like they’re all ignorant assholes. It’s not hard.

 

[jfegaly]

I make the effort to be respectful, and appreciate it when others do the same. I haven't been personally attacked like @gator1776 has (on this board). I've definitely been in my share of internet squabbles in the past lol.

Nor have you attacked like he has, or displayed the arrogance, trolling, etc…


There is probably a reason you haven’t been attacked. He is not a victim.


Sincerely,

Piece of shit.

😂😂

 

[jfegaly]

There are a lot of scientific misdeeds. However, relative to the overall body of scientific work, this is small. It is unfortunate, but any endeavor involving humans will also include human fallibilities.

But what is just as certain, is that science is still our best option for understanding the world around us. Many, many scientists (including myself) conduct meta-analyses of a particular phenomenon that has been studied to see what the general consensus is. This is where studies that were erroneous often get exposed. There are other issues as well, such as with reproducibility (being able to run the exact study as the original) and replicability (finding the same results as the original study).

But if you just look at the fraudulent/negligent/crappy studies and ignore the entire work of the scientific community, and use this as a reason to reject science entirely, then you are making a mistake in my opinion.

Edit to add comment: There is a book by Stuart Ritchie called Science Fictions. While I have some strong disagreements with Ritchie's analyses (methodologically), it is a good source for understanding how scientists err and what you should do to learn to properly consume scientific evidence.

Sure. The converse is true as well. That one shouldn’t just accept “science” at face value. There are plenty of bad actors, and as you said, humans are fallible. That wiki link I sent you is a damn long list of fraudulent science. And those are just the ones that were caught, and thats just one scenario (fraud). Many other factors can produce “bad science”

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

I understand the scientific method.

You don’t read what people post and your responses are really arrogant…and then you’re shocked when vitriol is the result.

Take notes from @SORT14 on how to talk to people.

SORT14 is treating you guys with kid gloves and saintly patience that would unrealistic in most situations. Adults should be able to make objective judgments without having to be spoonfed and burped by a “humble” messenger.

 

[jfegaly]

SORT14 is treating you guys with kid gloves and saintly patience that would unrealistic in most situations. Adults should be able to make objective judgments without having to be spoonfed and burped by a “humble” messenger.

So why did you vote for someone that needs to be burped?

Maybe it was a "Southern Strategy" moment that fooled you again.

 

[SORT14]

You don’t treat people like they’re all ignorant assholes. It’s not hard.

That’s not my fight but in my interactions with @gator1776 I've never had that issue and he can fight his own fights. And don't get me wrong, I know people are going to fight on the internet, and it doesn't bother me. That's just not my preferred route.

 

[SORT14]

Sure. The converse is true as well. That one shouldn’t just accept “science” at face value. There are plenty of bad actors, and as you said, humans are fallible. That wiki link I sent you is a damn long list of fraudulent science. And those are just the ones that were caught, and thats just one scenario (fraud). Many other factors can produce “bad science”

Of course. I'm not saying accept any study at face value, nor as the final and ultimate truth. But regardless of how long that wiki list is (or that of those in Ritchie's book) when combined with the list of those who aren't "caught", then it still won't come anywhere near the number of legitimate, honest studies.
In all honesty, to properly consume scientific literature and gain the ability to spot the shortcomings may take some basic learning of formal logic and statistics.
But all in all, science is easily our best resource for understanding even if it isn't perfect.

 

[gator1776]

To add on to this, the scientific method requires two hypotheses: the null and alternative. The null is that there is no evidence to support the alternative. The outcome of the experiment would then result in one of these two hypotheses being accepted or rejected based upon the outcome. If there is some evidence of the alternative hypothesis being true, but not strong enough evidence, then the researcher would fail to reject the null hypothesis without declaring any outcome as "true".

Exactly. Implied in my original quote was either it does cause it or it doesn’t cause it or it’s inconclusive.

 

[gator1776]

You don’t treat people like they’re all ignorant assholes. It’s not hard.

See your hypothesis is that you guys are somehow above the fray and didn’t instigate Or do your own fair share of attacking. It is fairly clear when people come in and read this thread from the outside or other threads we have discussed on that when you guys don’t like my message you tend to attack me more than the message which is been the MO for two posters in particular on here ever since I’ve known them.

They have a habit of attacking the poster more than the argument and this is particularly true when they get proven to be wrong

Couple of other of you guys have a habit of immediately getting upset if I don’t just blindly agree with a tweet that you post.

I am certainly not beyond reproach though, so I apologize if I have offended you at certain times during this discussion.

 

[jfegaly]

Of course. I'm not saying accept any study at face value, nor as the final and ultimate truth. But regardless of how long that wiki list is (or that of those in Ritchie's book) when combined with the list of those who aren't "caught", then it still won't come anywhere near the number of legitimate, honest studies.
In all honesty, to properly consume scientific literature and gain the ability to spot the shortcomings may take some basic learning of formal logic and statistics.
But all in all, science is easily our best resource for understanding even if it isn't perfect.

I would be willing to bet, I can find a hole (flaw or something missing) in just about any "scientific data" posted. This is one of the many reasons the "facts" are always changing. Right alongside the environmental variables that are always changing.

Statistics, as you well know, can be skewed to fit a narrative. Just pointing out that as "fallible" humans, we are susceptible to many reasons for error. Many times, without intent....just human nature of our natural built in bias.

One of them, has been displayed over and over again ITT. Pride.

 

[SORT14]

I would be willing to bet, I can find a hole (flaw or something missing) in just about any "scientific data" posted. This is one of the many reasons the "facts" are always changing. Right alongside the environmental variables that are always changing.

Statistics, as you well know, can be skewed to fit a narrative. Just pointing out that as "fallible" humans, we are susceptible to many reasons for error. Many times, without intent....just human nature of our natural built in bias.

One of them, has been displayed over and over again ITT. Pride.

You might be able to find a flaw in some data. Anyone who presents data as perfect is probably lying. It isn't the data in question, it is the application of logic to the data. Yes, variables change, and this can be quantified in statistical variance. And like I've said before, a good study will set forth and discuss its' limitations for both the underlying data set and the logic used to reach its conclusions.

Statistics can be skewed, so don't blame the statistics, but the person skewing them. The data and statistics are what they are.
Yes, humans are considerably susceptible to bias. Including me and you. Logic helps mitigate this frailty.

 

[jfegaly]

See your hypothesis is that you guys are somehow above the fray and didn’t instigate Or do your own fair share of attacking. It is fairly clear when people come in and read this thread from the outside or other threads we have discussed on that when you guys don’t like my message you tend to attack me more than the message which is been the MO for two posters in particular on here ever since I’ve known them.

They have a habit of attacking the poster more than the argument and this is particularly true when they get proven to be wrong

Couple of other of you guys I have a habit of immediately getting upset if I don’t just blindly agree with a tweet that you post.

I am certainly not beyond reproach though, so I apologize if I have offended you at certain times during this discussion.

You know outside the four or five people in here that act as your echo chamber nobody really likes you. You’re a piece of shit. And you’re ignorant. And no that’s not you getting to me that’s just me wanting you to know the truth. Imagine in your real life very few people care for you either.

😊😉

Interesting revisionist history. @SORT14

So yeah, I come at you hard. You have earned it. #trytoohard

I could continue down memory lane if you like, but the folks who were regularly on the board at the time remember it. There is a reason you began reaching out via PM to folks, and tagging folks who weren't regulars on this board. You were losing credibility. Your reputation was earned. You are a an admitted troll, and now want to be seen as a victim. It is laughable at best.

Pride comes before the fall.

 

[gator1776]

You might be able to find a flaw in some data. Anyone who presents data as perfect is probably lying. It isn't the data in question, it is the application of logic to the data. Yes, variables change, and this can be quantified in statistical variance. And like I've said before, a good study will set forth and discuss its' limitations for both the underlying data set and the logic used to reach its conclusions.

Statistics can be skewed, so don't blame the statistics, but the person skewing them. The data and statistics are what they are.
Yes, humans are considerably susceptible to bias. Including me and you. Logic helps mitigate this frailty.

Agreed. And never underestimate the motive of money in playing with the stats. Two drugs come to mind, Trovan and Xigris

Trovam is the drug they loosely based the story the constant Gardener on, Xigris Had a very infamous study where they did a math interim analysis in the middle of the study and found that their hypothesis was going to be incorrect and therefore change the parameters of the study in mid-study to get a positive variable subgroup result so that they could market and sell their drug which, predictably, ended up doing more harm than good.

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

Some of you are saying that you dismissed 1776's posts because you didn't like his tone. Then SORT showed up and coddled you so you will listen to him. I understand the "honey attracts flies more than vinegar" mentality, but you should be able to be objective about facts regardless of the messenger. Outside of institutions for the mentally ill and palliative care centers, you will rarely encounter a professional who treats adults with the patience of Mister Rogers explaining something to a recalcitrant child.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

I make the effort to be respectful, and appreciate it when others do the same. I haven't been personally attacked like @gator1776 has (on this board). I've definitely been in my share of internet squabbles in the past lol.

@gator1776 initiated the attacks on every poster here. He once called me a liar for verbatim quoting the CDC website.

When he gets it back in kind, he plays the victim card. There's a reason why he's just as popular on Swamp Talk as he is here.

 

[gator1776]

Some of you are saying that you dismissed 1776's posts because you didn't like his tone. Then SORT showed up and coddled you so you will listen to him. I understand the "honey attracts flies more than vinegar" mentality, but you should be able to be objective about facts regardless of the messenger. Outside of institutions for the mentally ill and palliative care centers, you will rarely encounter a professional who treats adults with the patience of Mister Rogers explaining something to a recalcitrant child.

I’m sure this will be contested but I was actually very nice about it at first. But there’s only so many times you can be told you’re wrong by people that, to be fair, don’t have the background or the training to understand this on the same level before you start pointing out that very fact.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

"...Breakthrough cases of COVID-19 can happen despite people getting vaccinated.

A new study reveals the fully vaccinated were almost twice as likely to have no symptoms at all, compared to the wider population.

Also, if that person does catch COVID-19 the study showed the odds of ending up hospitalized with severe symptoms were reduced by more than two-thirds compared to an unvaccinated coronavirus patient.


The survey also found that the risk of breakthrough patients suffering from long-COVID, with symptoms lasting more than a month, were cut in half by full vaccination.

The peer-reviewed study was published yesterday in The Lancet Medical Journal...."

Study: COVID-19 'breakthrough' infections, fewer symptoms in vaccinated people

Study reveals how well vaccination protects people against catching a "breakthrough" COVID-19 infection.

www.newschannel5.com

This is seriously scary. Because so many people are getting the shots because they worry about being around friends and family who are at higher risk due to underlying health issues.

If the shots are actually making symptoms less noticiable or non-existent, then it only increases the chances that they will spend time around those at-risk friends and family members, because they will believe they are fine.

 

[jfegaly]

@gator1776 initiated the attacks on every poster here. He once called me a liar for verbatim quoting the CDC website.

When he gets it back in kind, he plays the victim card. There's a reason why he's just as popular on Swamp Talk as he is here.

^^^^this. And now wants to be a victim. It’s actually quite funny

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Some of you are saying that you dismissed 1776's posts because you didn't like his tone.

Who said that?

I tend to dismiss his posts ever since he admitted that he was intentionally posting false information here to 'get a rise' out of others.

You had no problem with that and saw no ethical issues.

Then you got upset when I said you never disagreed with him when it came to covid and the shots LMAO!

 

[SORT14]

@gator1776 initiated the attacks on every poster here. He once called me a liar for verbatim quoting the CDC website.

When he gets it back in kind, he plays the victim card. There's a reason why he's just as popular on Swamp Talk as he is here.

Hey, that's between you guys. Don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly ok with internet flame wars and I understand the nature of them. I just find them ineffective for making progress in a substantive conversation and they just aren't my preferred style. And notice that I have almost zero involvement in other political threads. I came to the COVID thread when @FresnoGator made it, and it is an important topic to me. It is a big part of my current research.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Hey, that's between you guys.

I know. Just pointing out there's a LOT of history here that happened before you started posting here. Anyone trying to tell you that @gator1776 just came here to share what he knew and suddenly everyone started attacking him has it 180% wrong.

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

@gator1776 initiated the attacks on every poster here. He once called me a liar for verbatim quoting the CDC website.

When he gets it back in kind, he plays the victim card. There's a reason why he's just as popular on Swamp Talk as he is here.

You are the nonpareil of ad hominem attacks and word-twisting on this board.

 

[jfegaly]

Some of you are saying that you dismissed 1776's posts because you didn't like his tone. Then SORT showed up and coddled you so you will listen to him. I understand the "honey attracts flies more than vinegar" mentality, but you should be able to be objective about facts regardless of the messenger. Outside of institutions for the mentally ill and palliative care centers, you will rarely encounter a professional who treats adults with the patience of Mister Rogers explaining something to a recalcitrant child.

Psst. Thats not what is being said. Folks in any walk of life, don’t appreciate condescending people. Not to mention trolling, arrogant, prideful people. Especially when said person has been wrong multiple times, and then willfully lied after the fact.

No matter what walk of life we are talking about, people don’t appreciate being talked down to. it’s not kid gloves people are looking for, just don’t be condescending, arrogant, and intentional about trying to get a “rise” out of folks then play victim when your reputation takes a beating. Again, he is the epitome of a narcissist. Period. Not many folks enjoy being around narcissist. It is what it is.

I posted a video from Zdogg the other day that literally characterized doc to a T. He could learn alot from it. My guess….his pride won’t let him watch it.

Maybe he will let us know what his salary is again instead.

 

[jfegaly]

Who said that?

I tend to dismiss his posts ever since he admitted that he was intentionally posting false information here to 'get a rise' out of others.

You had no problem with that and saw no ethical issues.

Then you got upset when I said you never disagreed with him when it came to covid and the shots LMAO!

Nailed it

 

[gator1776]

You are the nonpareil of ad hominem attacks and word-twisting on this board.

Rules for the but not for me 🤣🤣🤣

 

[SORT14]

SORT14 is treating you guys with kid gloves and saintly patience that would unrealistic in most situations. Adults should be able to make objective judgments without having to be spoonfed and burped by a “humble” messenger.

It's not in my interest to try to "destroy" people on the internet. It is in my interest to advance the collective understanding. Don't get me wrong - I've been in some good internet arguments - that just isn't my bag though.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

SORT14 is treating you guys with kid gloves and saintly patience that would unrealistic in most situations. Adults should be able to make objective judgments without having to be spoonfed and burped by a “humble” messenger.

I haven't seen a woman throw herself at a man like this since Gone With the Wind.

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

Psst. Thats not what is being said. Folks in any walk of life, don’t appreciate condescending people. Not to mention trolling, arrogant, prideful people. Especially when said person has been wrong multiple times, and then willfully lied after the fact.

No matter what walk of life we are talking about, people don’t appreciate being talked down to. it’s not kid gloves people are looking for, just don’t be condescending, arrogant, and intentional about trying to get a “rise” out of folks then play victim when your reputation takes a beating. Again, he is the epitome of a narcissist. Period. Not many folks enjoy being around narcissist. It is what it is.

I posted a video from Zdogg the other day that literally characterized doc to a T. He could learn alot from it. My guess….his pride won’t let him watch it.

Maybe he will let us know what his salary is again instead.

Most of you are worse than 1776 when it comes to all of this. I don’t know how you can now claim civilian status with a straight face.

If you wanna troll people, fine. I’m no innocent myself. 1776 and I disagree at least as much as we agree. But I can recognize when a professional is stating facts on an issue that falls directly into his area of expertise, regardless of whether he is “arrogant.”

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Most of you are worse than 1776 when it comes to all of this. I don’t know how you can now claim civilian status with a straight face.

If you wanna troll people, fine. I’m no innocent myself. 1776 and I disagree at least as much as we agree. But I can recognize when a professional is stating facts on an issue that falls directly into his area of expertise, regardless of whether he is “arrogant.”

Again, he's literally told others he lies about what he posts here to 'get a rise' out of posters.

Looks like it worked on you better than anyone.

 

[gator1776]

Most of you are worse than 1776 when it comes to all of this. I don’t know how you can now claim civilian status with a straight face.

If you wanna troll people, fine. I’m no innocent myself. 1776 and I disagree at least as much as we agree. But I can recognize when a professional is stating facts on an issue that falls directly into his area of expertise, regardless of whether he is “arrogant.”

Well I’m certainly self-confident in this particular field 🤣🤣🤣😁

But I’m not hypocritical like those that are complaining as if they are sweet innocent angels 😇

 

[FresnoGator]

Can we just stop with the character assassinations? We get it, you guys don't think much of each other.

You really want to do this in a dedicated COVID thread?

 

[gator1776]

Can we just stop with the character assassinations? We get it, you guys don't think much of each other.

You really want to do this in a dedicated COVID thread?

Excuse me sir, I have no character to assassinate.
🤣🤣🤣

 

[FresnoGator]

Excuse me sir, I have no character to assassinate.
🤣🤣🤣

 

[gator1776]

🤣🤣🤣🖕

 

[SORT14]

Another finding in support of ivermectin, in conjunction with vaccination:

"We believe that the evidence to date supports the worldwide extension of IVM treatments for COVID-19, complementary to immunizations"

Ivermectin: a multifaceted drug of Nobel prize-honoured distinction with indicated efficacy against a new global scourge, COVID-19 - PubMed

In 2015, the Nobel Committee for Physiology or Medicine, in its only award for treatments of infectious diseases since six decades prior, honoured the discovery of ivermectin (IVM), a multifaceted drug deployed against some of the world's most devastating tropical diseases. Since March 2020...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov