Kirby vs Richt

[LT Dawg07]

Maybe it'll be top 2, you don't know that.

And yes, I'm aware of when Kirby became coach.

But I guess for the record, I'll list where the class ranked in the SEC as well.

2002: 2nd
2003: 3rd
2004: 2nd
2005: 2nd
2006: 2nd
2007: 6th
2008: 3rd
2009: 3rd
2010: 6th
2011: 2nd
2012: 4th
2013: 7th
2014: 5th
2015: 3rd
2016: 5th
2017: 2nd
2018: 1st
2019: 4th


You're making a lot of statements about the two coaches, but not much intellectual honesty behind them.

You want to believe that Richt wasn't nearly as good of a recruiter as Kirby, even though that's not nearly the case.

Ricky's recruiting hit a snag about a decade into his career, also about the same time the league expanded.

Oh, and it should be noted that in those conference rankings, the teams ahead of you were mostly western division teams.

Use point totals instead of just rankings. 2017 was a 3 but Bama had the best class of all time that year and OSU was top 5 all time (using points). That class by UGA would be 1 most years and was significantly better than Richts best class.

I never said Richt couldn’t recruit, he was good but ignored the Oline (look at Miami now for proof).

Kirby’s first class is better than his best class, it’s not debatable. This class will be top 3, basically guaranteed at this point. Therefore that will be 3 classes in a row better than any class Richt have. That’s significant improvement, not sure how else to define it.

The real key to recruiting is stacking classes. Richt would get one great class and then a few mediocre classes (relatively). What Kirby is doing now Richt never came close to, it’s pretty obvious at this point.

 

[Dannygator1989]

Richt had 73 players drafted that he recruited.

1st Round: 13
2nd Round: 7
3rd Round: 14
4th Round: 12
5th Round: 11
6th Round: 8
7th Round: 8

Jim Donnan was responsible for 30.

1st Round: 7
2nd Round: 5
3rd Round: 3
4th Round: 5
5th Round: 2
6th Round: 2
7th Round: 6

 

[fsumc]

No shit. How many times do I have to type that Tech is not a threat and doesn’t appear they will be? But somehow that is not beneficial to UGA? This is just nonsensical.

I didn’t realize that 70% of the football talent in the state of Georgia belongs to alumni of different SEC teams. Having a large metropolitan city will always have transplants. None of that has anything to do with the actual talent that has been born and raised in the state. Unless you have some actual numbers to back up your claim a majority of the top Georgia talent comes from families that are from the state of Georgia.

 

[LT Dawg07]

No shit. How many times do I have to type that Tech is not a threat and doesn’t appear they will be? But somehow that is not beneficial to UGA? This is just nonsensical.

I didn’t realize that 70% of the football talent in the state of Georgia belongs to alumni of different SEC teams. Having a large metropolitan city will always have transplants. None of that has anything to do with the actual talent that has been born and raised in the state. Unless you have some actual numbers to back up your claim a majority of the top Georgia talent comes from families that are from the state of Georgia.

Guess I’m not sure what you are arguing.

GA is a talented state and it’s a benefit that GT isn’t competition. Other posters were claiming that would change, it won’t.

UGA recruits lots of states and tons of schools in the south recruit GA. There is plenty of competition still and just being the state school doesn’t guarantee the kid comes to UGA. This isn’t Louisiana or Alabama we’re taking about.

As I’ve said, it’s def a benefit but you at over stating that benefit.

Being a transient state has a ton to do with kids born and raised in the state. Generally kids are fans of the school their parents are fans for. I would estimate Atlanta isn’t even half UGA fans.

 

[fsumc]

Use point totals instead of just rankings. 2017 was a 3 but Bama had the best class of all time that year and OSU was top 5 all time (using points). That class by UGA would be 1 most years and was significantly better than Richts best class.

I never said Richt couldn’t recruit, he was good but ignored the Oline (look at Miami now for proof).

Kirby’s first class is better than his best class, it’s not debatable. This class will be top 3, basically guaranteed at this point. Therefore that will be 3 classes in a row better than any class Richt have. That’s significant improvement, not sure how else to define it.

The real key to recruiting is stacking classes. Richt would get one great class and then a few mediocre classes (relatively). What Kirby is doing now Richt never came close to, it’s pretty obvious at this point.

It’s not obvious though. Your fanbase is just using it as hope that Kirby will be the next Saban because that’s all you have right now. You were manhandled in the regular season by Auburn last year. Pushed around by LSU this year. And blew two championship opportunities to the team you think you’re next in line to usurp. You’re the Hillary if college football right now.

 

[oozie7]

Richt puts more players on NFL rosters than all but 3 teams...didn't recruit at an elite level says UGA fan. Because recruiting rankings. You can't make this shit up.

 

[LT Dawg07]

It’s not obvious though. Your fanbase is just using it as hope that Kirby will be the next Saban because that’s all you have right now. You were manhandled in the regular season by Auburn last year. Pushed around by LSU this year. And blew two championship opportunities to the team you think you’re next in line to usurp. You’re the Hillary if college football right now.

It is obvious though. A few bad games doesn’t change that.

Kirby’s worst being better than Richts best is a huge improvement, only a fool would ignore that.

Kirby won the SEC last year and almost won the NC. It’s not like he hasn’t won big games.

Sure UGA lost to Bama, something everyone does (if they even get the chance). It sucks but also clear UGA has the talent to compete with them (something very few seem to be able to do).

UGA was the youngest team in the SEC this year and the talent is increasing. I guess everyone should ignore that based on something you can’t explain or quantify.

 

[fsumc]

Guess I’m not sure what you are arguing.

GA is a talented state and it’s a benefit that GT isn’t competition. Other posters were claiming that would change, it won’t.

UGA recruits lots of states and tons of schools in the south recruit GA. There is plenty of competition still and just being the state school doesn’t guarantee the kid comes to UGA. This isn’t Louisiana or Alabama we’re taking about.

As I’ve said, it’s def a benefit but you at over stating that benefit.

LSU wasn’t keeping their top talent until Saban showed up. Once that happened and Miles was able to do the same it’s been night and day for them. Everyone in the country recruits Louisiana as well. Do you think it benefits LSU to be the only big time program in their state? But somehow Georgia doesn’t benefit greatly from that exact set up? I’ll just wait for the top 50 Georgia recruits list and how a majority of them come from alumni of UT, FSU, Auburn, and Michigan.

 

[fsumc]

It is obvious though. A few bad games doesn’t change that.

Kirby’s worst being better than Richts best is a huge improvement, only a fool would ignore that.

Kirby won the SEC last year and almost won the NC. It’s not like he hasn’t won big games.

Sure UGA lost to Bama, something everyone does (if they even get the chance). It sucks but also clear UGA has the talent to compete with them (something very few seem to be able to do).

UGA was the youngest team in the SEC this year and the talent is increasing. I guess everyone should ignore that based on something you can’t explain or quantify.

Welcome to 2002 where the arguments are the same but the names have changed.

 

[LT Dawg07]

Richt puts more players on NFL rosters than all but 3 teams...didn't recruit at an elite level says UGA fan. Because recruiting rankings. You can't make this shit up.

Nope, not a consistent elite level. Bama has and their NFL talent has exploded in recent years, meanwhile Miami’s has plummeted.

Richt recruited well but not elite at all. He also recruited well at skill positions but not well at all on the lines (see Miami). Additionally, players improved after leaving UGA. Those are the reasons why his NFL talent doesn’t equate to UGA having elite talent or teams, because he didn’t. He had good teams and some great teams but needed everything to line up. He also would lose to a team or two he shouldn’t every year.

 

[LT Dawg07]

LSU wasn’t keeping their top talent until Saban showed up. Once that happened and Miles was able to do the same it’s been night and day for them. Everyone in the country recruits Louisiana as well. Do you think it benefits LSU to be the only big time program in their state? But somehow Georgia doesn’t benefit greatly from that exact set up? I’ll just wait for the top 50 Georgia recruits list and how a majority of them come from alumni of UT, FSU, Auburn, and Michigan.

Only Alabama has been able to recruit elite players out of Louisiana. No one else with any regularity. There is far more allegiance to the home state school vs UGA.

I’ve said repeatedly that UGA benefits from it, but that you are overrating it. That’s my point.

Still not sure of your point either. 6 of UGAs 17 kids committed come from GA, 6...

 

[LT Dawg07]

Welcome to 2002 where the arguments are the same but the names have changed.

I guess. Richt did a good job cutting off talent to Tenn from GA, you see where that program has gone.

Still Richt never recruited at this level. It’s extremely clear for those paying attention. UGA will be better in 19 and 20. UGA beat the east by an average of 21 points per game this year with the youngest team in the SEC.

 

[Dannygator1989]

Use point totals instead of just rankings. 2017 was a 3 but Bama had the best class of all time that year and OSU was top 5 all time (using points). That class by UGA would be 1 most years and was significantly better than Richts best class.

I never said Richt couldn’t recruit, he was good but ignored the Oline (look at Miami now for proof).

Kirby’s first class is better than his best class, it’s not debatable. This class will be top 3, basically guaranteed at this point. Therefore that will be 3 classes in a row better than any class Richt have. That’s significant improvement, not sure how else to define it.

The real key to recruiting is stacking classes. Richt would get one great class and then a few mediocre classes (relatively). What Kirby is doing now Richt never came close to, it’s pretty obvious at this point.

Jesus.

So the one thing you'll listen to is total numbers?

 

[LT Dawg07]

Jesus.

So the one thing you'll listen to is total numbers?

Total points is the way to look at it. It’s more comprehensive and accurate.

Last year UGA had 3461 total points, the number 10 team (FSU) had 2401. That’s a 44% difference, that’s huge even though you could say both are top 10 classes.

 

[oozie7]

Nope, not a consistent elite level. Bama has and their NFL talent has exploded in recent years, meanwhile Miami’s has plummeted.

Richt recruited well but not elite at all. He also recruited well at skill positions but not well at all on the lines (see Miami). Additionally, players improved after leaving UGA. Those are the reasons why his NFL talent doesn’t equate to UGA having elite talent or teams, because he didn’t. He had good teams and some great teams but needed everything to line up. He also would lose to a team or two he shouldn’t every year.

Do you realize how dumb this argument is? Being in the top 4 when he was fired for players on NFL rosters very clearly shows he recruited at an elite level. That's better than teams like USC, UF, Clemson, Ohio St., etc. all blueblood programs who recruit and sign the top players in the country each year.

Your sole argument is that he didn't recruit at an elite level based on recruiting rankings (which were consistently top 10 btw). Recruiting rankings are PROJECTIONS, NFL status is the final result. How do you not understand this? Teams aren't drafting players based on where they were ranked in high school. Good lord. And I love how you're now arguing Richt didn't have elite teams, who gives a shit? That was never the discussion. The discussion was about whether he recruited at an elite level or not, the number of his recruits on NFL rosters clearly says he did. The end.

 

[LT Dawg07]

Do you realize how dumb this argument is? Being in the top 4 when he was fired for players on NFL rosters very clearly shows he recruited at an elite level. That's better than teams like USC, UF, Clemson, Ohio St., etc. all blueblood programs who recruit and sign the top players in the country each year.

Your sole argument is that he didn't recruit at an elite level based on recruiting rankings (which were consistently top 10 btw). Recruiting rankings are PROJECTIONS, NFL status is the final result. How do you not understand this? Teams aren't drafting players based on where they were ranked in high school. Good lord. And I love how you're now arguing Richt didn't have elite teams, who gives a shit? That was never the discussion. The discussion was about whether he recruited at an elite level or not, the number of his recruits on NFL rosters clearly says he did. The end.

His teams weren’t elite. A few were but not consistently. Just look at the teams.

I gave you the reasons for it, he ignored the Oline, players improved dramatically after leaving UGA. The NFL numbers don’t show the true picture.

Those players are over longer periods of time so they can’t be used for specific teams.UGA had good teams but not consistently elite. They had players drafted that didn’t produce to elite levels in college.

Rankings have been incredibly accurate for showing the dominant teams. Not sure how that’s debatable anymore.

Regardless you can’t compare NFL talent from one to the other until much later. Kirby will easily win that comparison too when the time comes.

 

[fsumc]

Lots of projections here but the OP’s points remain. Similar records, elite recruiting, and lots of hope.

 

[oozie7]

His teams weren’t elite. A few were but not consistently. Just look at the teams.

I gave you the reasons for it, he ignored the Oline, players improved dramatically after leaving UGA. The NFL numbers don’t show the true picture.

Those players are over longer periods of time so they can’t be used for specific teams.UGA had good teams but not consistently elite. They had players drafted that didn’t produce to elite levels in college.

Rankings have been incredibly accurate for showing the dominant teams. Not sure how that’s debatable anymore.

Regardless you can’t compare NFL talent from one to the other until much later. Kirby will easily win that comparison too when the time comes.

Why are you talking about team results? You’re just moving the goalposts. It’s irrelevant. A coach can recruit at an elite level and not have elite teams due to coaching. See Ron Zook. Or Les Miles.

You and your other brethren jumped feet first into this thread claiming Kirby is recruiting at a level Richt never recruited at, that’s false and the amount of players Richt put in the NFL shows that. Whether he had elite teams or not is irrelevant, it has nothing to do with the point at hand which is that he recruited at an elite level. You don’t put that many players in the NFL if you’re not recruiting well. This isn’t that complicated. I don’t care about what you project. Come back here when it happens.

 

[GADAWGinIraq]

That’s the point genius. No coaches sniff championships at that program. It’s a dumb comment.

LOL. I thought you were referring to the first ever CFP #1 ranking... that ended with 3 losses and getting spanked by Georgia Tech.
Mullens second biggest problem, behind recruiting, is his offense isn't unique anymore. CFB has caught up.

 

[GADAWGinIraq]

Like how elite Saban was stuck at Michigan State for forever? Or how supposedly elite Kirby was stuck as an assistant for 8 years when Bama assistants get hired away by everybody after 1-2 years? You’re a dumbass.

Kirby was going to leave. Saban talked him out of it, even said why go to UGA as a DC when you can wait and be the HC.
Kirby turned down Auburn because they wouldn't agree to what he wanted regarding control. Auburn > MSU

 

[GADAWGinIraq]

This is part of why older Gators will always say that UGa is our #1 rival (1942 is a big part as well). Our dominance the last 30 years muted the barking, letting our younger contingent perceive FSU as our #1 rival.

But I'm not worried. Beating the mutts is part of the natural order. It will be re-asserted soon enough, then they will crawl back into their kennels.

Wake up... you haven't dominated for 30 years. Yes, the 90s and 2000s, but that's gone. We've won 5 of last 8 and we'll win this decade after winning in JAX next year.
If it was the natural order we wouldn't be up 52-43-2.

 

[JaxDawg07]

Like how elite Saban was stuck at Michigan State for forever? Or how supposedly elite Kirby was stuck as an assistant for 8 years when Bama assistants get hired away by everybody after 1-2 years? You’re a dumbass.

LOL, Mullen and Saban shouldn’t be mentioned in the same sentence. Talk about apples to oranges, only a real dumbass would even try to compare those two.

 

[oozie7]

And unsurprisingly your dumbass missed the entire point of the response. Done with you idiots.

 

[JaxDawg07]

Richt puts more players on NFL rosters than all but 3 teams...didn't recruit at an elite level says UGA fan. Because recruiting rankings. You can't make this shit up.

Sorry Kirby is taking recruiting to a level FCMR never did. you aren’t very intelligent or just in blind denial if you can’t see that. I’d be acting like recruiting rankings don’t matter too if my first year head coach had trouble selling his vision after a successful season on the field and was still ranked 21st in the country and the 10th in the sec.

 

[JaxDawg07]

Like how elite Saban was stuck at Michigan State for forever? Or how supposedly elite Kirby was stuck as an assistant for 8 years when Bama assistants get hired away by everybody after 1-2 years? You’re a dumbass.

By the way, Kirby had the chance to leave Bama LONG before he did, Saban doesn’t keep dead weight on his staff. Please tell me you haven’t bred more stupidity to this earth.

 

[GADAWGinIraq]

And? He's going to go down as the best coach ever. Based on your dumbass logic he shouldn't have even been there that long. And his records there were garbage, precisely because they're a second tier program, just like MSU. But again based on your dumbass logic because he never sniffed a championship there he isn't elite. I know one thing for sure...you're an elite mouthbreather.

You really don't bring much to the table when you're calling people dumbasses and such. Of course you also thought Kirby got outcoached in our 19 point win in JAX.

 

[GwinnettDawg]

Ga Tech hasn't competed with UGa for recruits because of the difference in styles. New coach, similar styles, believe me Ga Tech will compete.

Really? What style of defense do they run that’s so different from everyone else? You can keep with this line of nonsense all you want, but you’ll be as wrong later as you are now. Georgia does quite well in Florida too. Yougonna put a fence at the state line?

 

[GwinnettDawg]

Richt had 73 players drafted that he recruited.

1st Round: 13
2nd Round: 7
3rd Round: 14
4th Round: 12
5th Round: 11
6th Round: 8
7th Round: 8

Jim Donnan was responsible for 30.

1st Round: 7
2nd Round: 5
3rd Round: 3
4th Round: 5
5th Round: 2
6th Round: 2
7th Round: 6

Donnan was at Georgia 5 years, Richt 15

 

[GADAWGinIraq]

It’s not obvious though. Your fanbase is just using it as hope that Kirby will be the next Saban because that’s all you have right now. You were manhandled in the regular season by Auburn last year. Pushed around by LSU this year. And blew two championship opportunities to the team you think you’re next in line to usurp. You’re the Hillary if college football right now.

LOL... that's hilarious coming from a Seminole.

 

[fsumc]

LOL... that's hilarious coming from a Seminole.

You have no actual memory of your team winning a national championship unless you’re in your 50’s. You guys have the biggest little brother syndrome to Florida I have ever seen. You are projecting yourselves the next Bama but have nothing but recruiting ranks to hope on. So far your current coach has been out coached by Gus Malzahn and Ed Orgeron the last two seasons. My team sucks right now but at least we have some history to be proud of.

 

[GADAWGinIraq]

You have no actual memory of your team winning a national championship unless you’re in your 50’s. You guys have the biggest little brother syndrome to Florida I have ever seen. You are projecting yourselves the next Bama but have nothing but recruiting ranks to hope on. So far your current coach has been out coached by Gus Malzahn and Ed Orgeron the last two seasons. My team sucks right now but at least we have some history to be proud of.

Little brothers don't lead the series. They're simply our biggest rival. No one's projecting Bama, but we're excited about the trajectory of our program.
Our coach is 3-1 against Gus and we own Auburn the last 13 years or so.
We played our worst game in Baton Rouge... I'm sure you can relate to playing a bad game (or 7).
We have plenty of history to be proud of as well. Nice to see you sticking up for your big brother though. LOL.

 

[ih8f$u]

An elite coach wouldn’t be stuck at MSU for 9 years, if he was elite somebody would have snagged him a long time ago. He was the safe hire at the time and UF had to save face so it was a perfect match.

How many coaches have ever left MSU on their own terms? I can’t remember one who wasn’t fired. On the other hand I can’t remember an MSU coach who ever had ten ranked #1. Being able to take that program to a national spotlight and being an attractive hire after spending any amount of time there is more indicative of what makes Mullen impressive than winning titles bc no one wins there. Frankly if you aren’t impressed with the coaching Mullen did this year you ar in denial. That’s not taking anything away from what smart has done, but it doesn’t hurt having several rivals struggling when you take over a program. Mullen will close that gap and it will be competitive very soon

 

[GwinnettDawg]

Lots of projections here but the OP’s points remain. Similar records, elite recruiting, and lots of hope.

Yeah, well, the OP said Swamp Donkey was going to be successful as a HC at Florida. He’s really butthurt over Kirby leaving, that’s well documented. But hitch your wagon to that horse. LT is spot on. Richt built an ACC program in the SEC. And take a look at the attrition rates, which were horrendous. He shou,d have been fired in 2010.

 

[GADAWGinIraq]

How many coaches have ever left MSU on their own terms? I can’t remember one who wasn’t fired. On the other hand I can’t remember an MSU coach who ever had ten ranked #1. Being able to take that program to a national spotlight and being an attractive hire after spending any amount of time there is more indicative of what makes Mullen impressive than winning titles bc no one wins there. Frankly if you aren’t impressed with the coaching Mullen did this year you ar in denial. That’s not taking anything away from what smart has done, but it doesn’t hurt having several rivals struggling when you take over a program. Mullen will close that gap and it will be competitive very soon

I think Mullen actually did a good job this year, but he's not closing the gap anytime soon if Kirby keeps recruiting this way. We're going to finish 1 or 2 again this year in recruiting. The talent gap is widening with every team in the SEC except Bama, and we're on their six

 

[PacoGator19]

I think Mullen actually did a good job this year, but he's not closing the gap anytime soon if Kirby keeps recruiting this way. We're going to finish 1 or 2 again this year in recruiting. The talent gap is widening with every team in the SEC except Bama, and we're on their six

Yeah Mullen did ok. Only took a team from 4 wins to 9 wins in his first year with a depleted roster that McElwain recruited.

Of course the talent gap is going to get get closer. He just won 9 games with McElwain’s players. Let Mullen get his players that fit his system.

 

[Dannygator1989]

Donnan was at Georgia 5 years, Richt 15

I'm sorry.

I didn't realize I had to spell that out.

All of these stats (that never got responded to) had to do with an idea that somehow Richt didn't re riot anywhere near as well as Smart, and also that Richt benefited from Donnan's great recruiting.

I really don't care all that much. And I certainly wasn't trying to mislead anyone into thinking that the two coaches had anywhere near the same tenure.

But one of your own seems intent upon claiming Richts 12 of 15 seasons with top 10 classes and mostly finishing in the top 2-3 of all SEC teams is nowhere near what Kirby is doing.


It just reeks of revisionist history and lots of hope that Kirby is somehow miles better st recruiting that's Richt...ironically don't see many arguments that he's also a great gameday coach....which is interesting.


It seems to be all about his recruiting. But....Richts recruiting was Top 10 basically every year.


Why the angst about it?

 

[LizardGrad89]

LOL. I thought you were referring to the first ever CFP #1 ranking... that ended with 3 losses and getting spanked by Georgia Tech.
Mullens second biggest problem, behind recruiting, is his offense isn't unique anymore. CFB has caught up.

ROFL. Mullen never had a unique offense. Hell, when we get the right QB in there it will be single wing again, and that's 50's ball.

What Mullen is good at is player development, teaching the kids EXACTLY what to do on plays, and playcalling that takes advantage of the defensive setup. These are the things that will lead you, in the near future, to be shouting at the TV "we have the better players, how are they beating us up and down the field?!".

 

[oozie7]

I'm sorry.

I didn't realize I had to spell that out.

All of these stats (that never got responded to) had to do with an idea that somehow Richt didn't re riot anywhere near as well as Smart, and also that Richt benefited from Donnan's great recruiting.

I really don't care all that much. And I certainly wasn't trying to mislead anyone into thinking that the two coaches had anywhere near the same tenure.

But one of your own seems intent upon claiming Richts 12 of 15 seasons with top 10 classes and mostly finishing in the top 2-3 of all SEC teams is nowhere near what Kirby is doing.


It just reeks of revisionist history and lots of hope that Kirby is somehow miles better st recruiting that's Richt...ironically don't see many arguments that he's also a great gameday coach....which is interesting.


It seems to be all about his recruiting. But....Richts recruiting was Top 10 basically every year.


Why the angst about it?

What’s ironic is that based on their arguments they’re making the OP’s point. They’ve littered this thread with posts about how Kirby is a far superior recruiter and coach than Richt, yet their results theough their first 3 years are basically identical. So how could that possibly be if what they say is true? Especially since Kirby inherited the better program. Either Richt was a much better coach and recruiter than they give him credit for, which ruins the nice little narrative they have, or Kirby is underachieving. How else would he have the same results as a coach he’s so much better than and with better talent to boot? Those are the only two logical conclusions. But nobody has ever accused them of being intelligent.

 

[fsumc]

Yeah, well, the OP said Swamp Donkey was going to be successful as a HC at Florida. He’s really butthurt over Kirby leaving, that’s well documented. But hitch your wagon to that horse. LT is spot on. Richt built an ACC program in the SEC. And take a look at the attrition rates, which were horrendous. He shou,d have been fired in 2010.

You mean the coach that outschemed Kirby with Luke Del Rio at QB was predicted to succeed? Crazy.

 

[GADAWGinIraq]

LOL... Richt was a very good recruiter. Kirby is an elite recruiter. The results will show in time one way or the other. He has Gators, Seminoles and Elephants united hoping he's not building anything special...