Proprietary COVID-19 and Vaccine thread
- Thread starter FresnoGator
- Start date
Read what their conclusions are. They dismiss the negative numbers and do NOT conclude what you and the knucklehead twitter boy are trying to portray. Their conclusions are that the vaccine wanes (of course it does) and they strongly recommend the booster shots. They do NOT conclude that the vaccine ever results in a higher likelihood of the getting the virus. They don't even suggest its possible.
This is the sort of misinformation you guys thrive on. I don't really understand why you have so little interest in the finding the truth and so much interest in pushing your agenda when it comes to medicine. I understand it with politics, but this kind of thing is just baloney. There are several Omicron studies out there that also disagree with your opinion here, why not post about them to try and get some balance....you know, to try and find the truth? Why pick an obscure number that the guys performing the study don't even use in their results and specifically dismiss?
Specific answers. Quit dodging and labeling. They are simple questions.
I love how you just casually mention this as if this is a completely reasonable conclusion to make.
This goes back to @FresnoGator's point about moving goalposts. A year ago on this very board, there was a very vocal group that proclaimed (and had for months) that 'this ends when we all get vaccinated'.
A year later, the same people freely admit that the 'vaccines' only work for a few weeks at best, and that a steady dose of 'boosters' will be needed. Likely for the rest of their lives.
If ANY of us would have said that in response to the 'this ends when we all get vaccinated' claims here a year ago, you would have been able to hear the screeching about misinformation from the shot cheerleaders on Pluto.
Yet a year later, here we are. That's PRECISELY what has happened, and the shot cheerleaders act like it's no big deal.
@gator1776 can you show us where you told us 12-18 months ago that by now these shots would only last for a few weeks, and that we would need a constant stream of boosters after that?
Can you, @SORT14? @Nolec? @Uniformed_ReRe? @G8trDad3?
None of you did. You all got it wrong.
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Rebuttal: We’re all not vaccinated yet. The majority of people getting sick and ending up in the hospital with Omicron are, you guessed it, the unvaccinated.
You make a fascinating case study, your narcissism is possibly the worst I’ve ever seen, probably the safest place for you is on this board so please keep posting.
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As long as you’re on board with fat people, smokers, alcoholics, drug abusers, etc not being allowed to use hospital resources…choices need consequences
Incapable of thinking for themselves, people like Shift. It's easier for him to call me names and label anything that causes him even a little cognitive dissonance as "misinformation". Yet the goalposts are moving quickly and he accepts that without question, as long as the people he's told to listen to aren't bothered by it he's fine.
If he'd answer my questions above he'd have no choice but to think for himself, just writing out the answers would be enough.
Happy New Year to all the overweight doctors telling us to get the shot if we want protection from covid.
LA Times reported this AM 45,000 new cases in LA County and the largest group is 18-29 year olds...but interestingly enough they didn't mention how many of those were unvaxxed. That's probably because EVERYONE is getting Omicron regardless of the vaccine.
At least they did admit that Omicron has caused far fewer severe cases that require hospitalization.
Pandemic = endemic. Done.
At least they did admit that Omicron has caused far fewer severe cases that require hospitalization.
Pandemic = endemic. Done.
What does a negative VE mean? Is says in the 91-150 day range both Pfizer and Moderna are at -76% to -39% respectively...negative vs what? Do some research, don't get mad...you have time.
And what explanation did the researchers give for this and what was their proof?
Simple questions...think for yourself and share with the rest of us.
What’s sad is you won’t even understand this post. Let me help you by saying you’re describing yourself and your group.
The hell of it is, his choice to blindly get every covid shot and booster offered to him is beginning to look like the far more irresponsible choice.
I just want to know why the 'this ends when we all get vaccinated' crowd didn't see any of this coming?
Is it because they had no idea what they were talking about?
It's still not a vaccine any more than UF is a championship team this year ...
Correct me if I'm wrong but vaccines prevent you from getting a disease (small pox, polio, measles, etc.). This shot just lessens symptoms ...
Vaccines are designed to either prevent you from getting an infection or prevent you from getting the serious complications of an infection. Because this is a respiratory virus, the vaccine will not always prevent you from catching Covid because the vaccine produces IgG antibodies not IGA antibodies. The IGA antibodies protect your nasal passages in airways while the IgG antibodies protect your internal Vascular system and other organs.
Influenza vaccine is the exact same thing. The shot gives you IgG that protects you from serious infection but does not always prevent infection. The nasal influenza vaccine gives you IGA immunity which actually prevents you From getting influenza.
One of the great misconceptions about vaccines is they prevent you from getting infection which is not universally true and is especially not true regarding respiratory viruses because of the difference in types of immune globulins.
No reputable physician or immunologist would ever claim an IgG vaccine would prevent you from getting a respiratory virus, the goal is to prevent you from dying from the respiratory virus.
For what it’s worth. I hesitate to bring actual facts into this particular Thread 🤣🤣
Right, just like the flu shot, I get it. That's why both are shots and not vaccines ...
Not sure if you’re trying to be argumentative for argumentative sake or you’re trying to go down some strange semantic argument, but the influenza shot is a vaccine by definition and is characterized as a vaccine in the medical community. I would quote you the CDC, Mayo clinic, Johns Hopkins, and about 500 other sources but nobody here seems to believe those so I’ll just post you the Wikipedia link.
So are you trying to make a point because by definition the influenza vaccine is a vaccine. Are y’all trying to redefined the concept a vaccines? Serious question, you’re one of the few people that actually have a reasonable discussion with on here about this.
Influenza vaccine - Wikipedia
@FresnoGator
Tabors Medical Dictionary, As you know tabors has been around for well over 100 years.
Vaccine- Any suspension containing antigenic molecules derived from a microorganism, given to stimulate an immune response to an infectious disease. Vaccines may be made from weakened or killed microorganisms; inactivated toxins; toxoids derived from microorganisms; or immunologically active surface markers extracted or copied from microorganisms. They can be given intramuscularly, subcutaneously, intradermally, orally, or intranasally; as single agents; or in combinations.
Please notice at no point in there does it say prevent you from getting the infection. Vaccines are designed to stimulate your own immune system to protect you from the disease.
So am I to understand the people in this thread are trying to re-define the definition of a vaccine to shift the goal post in their arguments favor? Sincerely trying to understand since it’s coming from you @FresnoGator
Tabors Medical Dictionary, As you know tabors has been around for well over 100 years.
Vaccine- Any suspension containing antigenic molecules derived from a microorganism, given to stimulate an immune response to an infectious disease. Vaccines may be made from weakened or killed microorganisms; inactivated toxins; toxoids derived from microorganisms; or immunologically active surface markers extracted or copied from microorganisms. They can be given intramuscularly, subcutaneously, intradermally, orally, or intranasally; as single agents; or in combinations.
Please notice at no point in there does it say prevent you from getting the infection. Vaccines are designed to stimulate your own immune system to protect you from the disease.
So am I to understand the people in this thread are trying to re-define the definition of a vaccine to shift the goal post in their arguments favor? Sincerely trying to understand since it’s coming from you @FresnoGator
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If that is your definition, then that's fine. I suppose it's a vaccine then.
I object to the disingenuous nature of moving the goalposts when it's convenient or trying to claim it's something that it wasn't originally ...
That’s not my definition, that is THE definition of vaccines. That is the medical definition of vaccine dating back well over 100 years. It hasn’t changed. That’s straight out of Tabors dude, that’s the Bible of medical dictionary‘s. That’s always been The definition. That was the definition the first time I read it my freshman year of medical school more than 20 years ago.
The Covid vaccine was always designed to illicit an immune response to protect you from Covid. And that’s exactly what it does. Again no reputable doctor ever said it would prevent you from getting Covid 100% of the time because that was never the case. But it makes it damn near 99% less likely that you’ll die from it which is why it’s a vaccine. It elicits an immune response that protects you the quintessential definition of a vaccine.
The problem is y’all keep listening to news outlets they have no knowledge of medicine trying to report things like their medical experts. Nobody in the medical community is changing the goalpost. Y’all watch too much main stream TV under the guise of newswhat they’re really trying to do is get ratings. Sensationalism journalism at its best. I thought you were a scientist my friend, I’m a little surprised. Oh well to each their own.
I think I understand why you moderated the board the way you did now. Here I’ve been trying to give you the actual medical facts from a physician who has taken care of hundreds of patients with Covid from day one and you often favor the non-reputable non-medically trained sensationalism, makes sense now. I’ll re-categorize you now that I know 🤣🤣🤣👍
That's why I prefer to say 'vaccinated'. Because of course it's not a vaccine it's a TREATMENT.
That's why the CDC had to change its own definition of the word 'vaccine' on its website, because these shots didn't fit it.
More moving goalposts.
I could set up a business taking Ivermectin to these bad cases at their homes and many more would be alive than went to these crooked blood money hospitals
IOW it's a treatment. Again, if shot cheerleaders would just be honest with us, we would be far more receptive to their propaganda...er.....message,
Yes, be certain to put me into a box that makes sense for you.
I let tons of things slide from all perspectives, but feel free to ignore that ...
No I will. It’s cool brother. All this time I thought of you as a fellow medical professional since you were a dentist and therefore knowledgeable on these topics. I didn’t realize till now the way you think about these things. I just need to shift my understanding of you a little bit. I appreciate you making me more aware love your thoughts.
To each their own I guess. Some people would rather listen to the nut jobs with zero medical training like our buddy @GhostOfMatchesMalone then the doctor but we’re quite used to that in our profession. I’m sure you remember that from your days in dentistry.
I am sincerely shocked though I just never thought I’d be lumping you in the same category with him 🤣🤣🤣
When I got my flu shot, the official name was "Flucelvax Quad Pf Inj 2021-22 0.5ml."
I got El Vax.
I got El Vax.
Yes, it's all so black and white. Lord forbid that anyone stray from accepted dogma.
As for dentistry, it might shock you to learn that I routinely tried to debride active infections and held off on Rxing abs so their immune systems could do their thing, if possible and reasonable. The over Rxing of abs and preponderance of resistant strains was not something I was going to add to ...
Look, I can't help it if you just not bright enough to figure out what the study is saying. I suspect that's been your problem all along and what has brought you to this point. You picked out the one area the researches themselves threw out as your flagpole to stand on.
Just to be clear......they are saying don't pay any attention to the negative VE as its meaningless. And they give a short explanation as to the likely reasons why it is. There conclusions had nothing to do with that at all and certainly had they put any stock in it they would have addressed it as one of their findings......but they didn't.
So go ahead and try and twist it with another silly reply, I don't care. At this point we both know your wrong (as does everybody else who reads the study) and we both know you will never admit it. So lets just drop it.
Ya, I think the Earth is round. I am following the sheep. Sure do respect you guys who think the Earth is flat. You sure can think for yourselves.
Somewhere, somehow it has become better to you guys to be wrong but not go along with the common thought than it is to be right.
I would still prefer to be right and, unfortunately, the prevailing thinking is sometimes correct. So that kinda sucks for guys like you.
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Welcome to my world. At some point, you just give up trying because they are either trolling or too dumb to learn.
By the way, you should stop with the goalposts thing. Everybody new, or should have known, that since we were dealing with something brand new the recommendations would continue to be updated as new information came in...….with both the virus and the vaccine. Many smart doctors pointed this out at the beginning......that the way this WILL work and NEEDS to work is that recommendations will changes as we learn more about the virus and more about the vaccine. If you have any doctors that Don't change their recommendations with the science, they are the ones you need to run from. So referring to changing goalposts does nothing but reflect a lack of understanding on your part. It had to work this way and will be the same if we ever have another pandemic.
Ya, I am pretty much there. But had a little time the last few days to waste. But don't see a point in posting much in here going forward.
You hit the nail on the head though. For some reason, they seem to think that going along with the consensus scientific or medical opinion is a form of weakness, even though they have no qualificationsto evaluate the differences. It's crazy.
"Sorry, Doc, you don't know what you've talking about. Joe Rogan said something different."
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