Let’s see, we are discussing a pulmonary viral pandemic, hmmm, the CDC or somebody with a bachelors degree in history and economics.
Tough call.
Proprietary COVID-19 and Vaccine thread
- Thread starter FresnoGator
- Start date
Tough call.
There are lots of choices. I would go with the consensus of subject matter experts. Perhaps read the research done by J. Stacey Klutts, of the University of Iowa.
It is the essence of the two choices you have. You can choose science or you can choose pseudoscience. You can choose the subject matter expert‘s are you can choose people with limited training and limited expertise.
There are several other sources you can go to but all the scientific ones from the subject matter expert‘s agree with the current CDC recommendations That the vaccines are safe and very effective in preventing you from dying from Covid.
That is a very essence of the choice you have here in the Gator lounge, science or propagandist. It is a personal choice, pick what you’re going to listen to and make the best choice for you.
Here is some real science as well.
Why do we compare the covid vaccines to the polio vaccines? Seems to me it would be more appropriate to compare to RSV vaccines since they are both respiratory viruses. Since 1966 RSV vaccines have not only failed, but led to enhanced virus.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Why do we compare the covid vaccines to the polio vaccines? Seems to me it would be more appropriate to compare to RSV vaccines since they are both respiratory viruses. Since 1966 RSV vaccines have not only failed, but led to enhanced virus.
Brief History and Characterization of Enhanced Respiratory Syncytial Virus Disease - PubMed
In 1967, infants and toddlers immunized with a formalin-inactivated vaccine against respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) experienced an enhanced form of RSV disease characterized by high fever, bronchopneumonia, and wheezing when they became infected with wild-type virus in the community...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Oh, and just so we are clear….Enhanced disease is a real possibility with these vaccines. As you can see for yourself….the NIH is aware of the possibility.
Real science….straight from doc mcstuffins trusted source from the other day. The NIH. You know, folks with degrees that are acknowledging possibilities.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Real science….straight from doc mcstuffins trusted source from the other day. The NIH. You know, folks with degrees that are acknowledging possibilities.
Vaccine-associated enhanced disease: Case definition and guidelines for data collection, analysis, and presentation of immunization safety data - PMC
This is a Brighton Collaboration Case Definition of the term “Vaccine Associated Enhanced Disease” to be utilized in the evaluation of adverse events following immunization. The Case Definition was developed by a group of experts convened by the ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Because they are scared. Same reason @goldmom thinks everyone is attacking her for getting vaccinated, when every poster here has said they respect her choice.
Fear drives irrational decision making. Taking a vaccine that doesn't work, that causes harmful side affects, AND then taking it again.....isn't rational.
So you need to introduce an emotional trigger to get people to act irrationally. Fear-mongering sells.
People like Alex are saving lives. This is what a true hero looks like.
Boost the insanity
Before you even CONSIDER a third shot, please read thisalexberenson.substack.com
@gator1776 is just trolling. He thinks he is getting a rise out of us, hell he even had to bring a buddy over from Swamp Talk to try to help him.Oh, and just so we are clear….Enhanced disease is a real possibility with these vaccines. As you can see for yourself….the NIH is aware of the possibility.
Real science….straight from doc mcstuffins trusted source from the other day. The NIH. You know, folks with degrees that are acknowledging possibilities.
Vaccine-associated enhanced disease: Case definition and guidelines for data collection, analysis, and presentation of immunization safety data - PMC
This is a Brighton Collaboration Case Definition of the term “Vaccine Associated Enhanced Disease” to be utilized in the evaluation of adverse events following immunization. The Case Definition was developed by a group of experts convened by the ...
I just feel bad for posters like @DCandtheUTBand that truly believe that he believes what he's saying. Ah well.
It’s time for doc mcstuffins to PM some new friends to boost his ego. List of followers is becoming shorter by the minute.
Whenever I read your posts, I imagine the voices of Bebop and Rocksteady from the old Ninja Turtles cartoon.
“Tanks fo confoyming… SNORT… I’m sho rere will swallow youse whole… Hehehehehe…. SNORT.”
"These mRNA vaccines are not Pepto-Bismol. They have profound biological effects. They are encapsulated in fat particles whose long-term effects are unknown. They spread throughout the body (despite the early promise they would not). They hijack cellular machinery in exactly the same way an actual virus does.Boost the insanity
Before you even CONSIDER a third shot, please read this
They are no joke.
And - as rushed and flawed as their development was last year - at least regulators forced Pfizer and Moderna to test them in large clinical trials, with a total of more than 70,000 people.
The trials had two main goals: to make sure they didn’t have massive, immediate side effects (safety) and that they actually worked against the virus (efficacy).
In fact, the trials showed the vaccines did have a nasty short-term side effect profile - and that it worsened after the second dose. And despite their size, the trials failed to catch severe side effects for both the mRNA vaccines (which - at the least - cause heart inflammation in some young people) and the Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca vaccines, which cause a rare but particularly nasty form of blood clotting.
Still, most side effects appeared to fade after a few days. The trials also showed that at peak protection after the second dose, the mRNA vaccines reduced infections by 95 percent.
Thus their almost immediate authorization.
—
But now we know better.
The real-world data - from Israel, the United States, and everywhere else - are clear. Protection from infection fades within months even against the original coronavirus. It shrinks essentially to zero against the Delta variant (we can argue about time vs. variant effects, but the answer doesn’t matter in this context, either way the vaccines have stopped working)."
And keep in mind as you read this, NONE of the people claiming to know what they are talking about here predicted that the vaccines would lose effectiveness.
The same posters that pushed vaccines blindly.....never told us they wouldn't work after a few months.
@Tmi512 is the only poster here that accurately said that the vaccines would lose effectiveness. That's a big reason why I trust his advice on them.
This isn't that hard, guys, it's the same thing we always talk about when assessing the media.
You go on track record.
If a poster has a track record of being right, of telling you what will happen BEFORE it happens, that indicates expertise. That indicates mastery of a topic.
If they can't do that, then that indicates they are simply repeating what someone else told them, cause they don't understand the topic well enough to form their own thoughts.
Good luck.
I want to feel bad for the cheerleaders who have no idea this is all a ploy, but then again we begged them to wake up.
If they want to sign up for getting hoodwinked by a guy that's laughing at them for believing him, that's on them. We can only warn someone so many times.
I like it. Now, in Rocksteady voice….tell us about which party voted for the civil rights act. Snort snort.
FWIW. Not surprised that you sit around watching Ninja Turtles. It explains alot about your education level, and why you don’t know which party supported the Civil Rights Act, and which one didn’t. Snort Snort.
I found your youtube channel
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Yes, 55 years ago they developed a vaccine that didn’t work as well as they wanted it to. Since then we have developed hundreds of respiratory vaccines including a much better one against RSV which we give to high risk kids. They’ve all been proven to be much safer than the actual virus they protect against, Which is the ultimate goal of all vaccines.. But if you’re going to compare an upper respiratory infection with Covid you should use influenza because it is far more similar to influenza.Here is some real science as well.
Why do we compare the covid vaccines to the polio vaccines? Seems to me it would be more appropriate to compare to RSV vaccines since they are both respiratory viruses. Since 1966 RSV vaccines have not only failed, but led to enhanced virus.
Brief History and Characterization of Enhanced Respiratory Syncytial Virus Disease - PubMed
In 1967, infants and toddlers immunized with a formalin-inactivated vaccine against respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) experienced an enhanced form of RSV disease characterized by high fever, bronchopneumonia, and wheezing when they became infected with wild-type virus in the community...
Much like influenza Covid will change periodically and will have to revamp the vaccine which will probably be a yearly shot that is the best educated guess of which variant we will face that year.
By the way a retrospective look at a 55 year old failed vaccine and trying to extrapolate that to current research on Covid in messenger RNA vaccines is a pretty significant stretch and definitely falls under the realm of pseudoscience more than real science. But everybody feel free to read everything you want and make the best choice for you
BTW, note that @gator1776 can't tell us how long this shot will last, either.
Remember, mastery means you know. He doesn't.
I think we are about to enter a cycle where the vaccinated are going to be sold (via fear mongering), that they need regular shots to maintain 'protection'.
Hell I could see in just a few months the CDC and Mama Government pushing MONTHLY booster shots. With the media rolling out new fear campaigns about new variants and how MONTHLY shots are necessary to protect you.
Call it a health subscription service.
And those who are scared will continue to get jabbed. It's so sad.
Oh don’t feel bad for me. I am fully vaccinated and looking forward to my next booster shot as I walk through the hallways filled with Covid patients without getting sick.
Come on man don’t hurt their feelings. They’ll start a whole new thread where they can Hypocritically virtue signal.I found your high school yearbook photo.
A good, easy to understand article written by a subject matter expert:
www.tampabay.com
What we now know about how to fight the delta variant of COVID | Column
An expert explains why vaccines — and masks — are so important, and why delta is different and more dangerous.
Who you tagging or gonna PM next to stroke your ego?Yes, 55 years ago they developed a vaccine that didn’t work as well as they wanted it to. Since then we have developed hundreds of respiratory vaccines including a much better one against RSV which we give to high risk kids. They’ve all been proven to be much safer than the actual virus they protect against, Which is the ultimate goal of all vaccines.. But if you’re going to compare an upper respiratory infection with Covid you should use influenza because it is far more similar to influenza.
Much like influenza Covid will change periodically and will have to revamp the vaccine which will probably be a yearly shot that is the best educated guess of which variant we will face that year.
By the way a retrospective look at a 55 year old failed vaccine and trying to extrapolate that to current research on Covid in messenger RNA vaccines is a pretty significant stretch and definitely falls under the realm of pseudoscience more than real science. But everybody feel free to read everything you want and make the best choice for you
Also, NIH a good source or no?
What about treatments, are there any?
Want to see how consistent you can stay here.
I just realized why you have so much time to post. Found your story, I didn't realize you are no longer practicing.
Mississippi doctor gets 4 years in health care fraud scheme
A federal judge has sentenced a Mississippi doctor to four years in prison for his role in a health care fraud scheme
The Boards Fraudchi strikes again.
I just realized why
www.cdc.gov
"There is no vaccine yet to prevent RSV infection, but scientists are working hard to develop one. And there is a medicine that can help protect some babies at high risk for severe RSV disease. Healthcare providers usually give this medicine (called palivizumab) to premature infants and young children with certain heart and lung conditions as a series of monthly shots during RSV season. If you are concerned about your child’s risk for severe RSV infection, talk to your child’s healthcare provider."
Palivizumab (Synagi) is a humanized monoclonal antibody
So, just like Covid....There is a MONONCLONAL treatment, but I am glad to see you are finally recommending Monoclonal treatments for respiratory viruses, including covid.
Damn, doc....back to med school you go.
Looks like @goldmom has been hoodwinked by the fake doctor again. I am going to use your own "credible" source YOU listed.Yes, 55 years ago they developed a vaccine that didn’t work as well as they wanted it to. Since then we have developed hundreds of respiratory vaccines including a much better one against RSV which we give to high risk kids. They’ve all been proven to be much safer than the actual virus they protect against, Which is the ultimate goal of all vaccines.. But if you’re going to compare an upper respiratory infection with Covid you should use influenza because it is far more similar to influenza.
Much like influenza Covid will change periodically and will have to revamp the vaccine which will probably be a yearly shot that is the best educated guess of which variant we will face that year.
By the way a retrospective look at a 55 year old failed vaccine and trying to extrapolate that to current research on Covid in messenger RNA vaccines is a pretty significant stretch and definitely falls under the realm of pseudoscience more than real science. But everybody feel free to read everything you want and make the best choice for you
Learn about RSV in Infants and Young Children
RSV can be dangerous for some infants and young children.
www.cdc.gov
"There is no vaccine yet to prevent RSV infection, but scientists are working hard to develop one. And there is a medicine that can help protect some babies at high risk for severe RSV disease. Healthcare providers usually give this medicine (called palivizumab) to premature infants and young children with certain heart and lung conditions as a series of monthly shots during RSV season. If you are concerned about your child’s risk for severe RSV infection, talk to your child’s healthcare provider."
Palivizumab (Synagi) is a humanized monoclonal antibody
So, just like Covid....There is a MONONCLONAL treatment, but I am glad to see you are finally recommending Monoclonal treatments for respiratory viruses, including covid.
Damn, doc....back to med school you go.
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Good article. The entire thing is informative but I want to key in on three very important points that it makes. These are three of the things that seem to come up here a lot regarding how respiratory virus vaccines work and why they are protective while not always preventing airway infection:A good, easy to understand article written by a subject matter expert:
What we now know about how to fight the delta variant of COVID | Column
An expert explains why vaccines — and masks — are so important, and why delta is different and more dangerous.
6. Vaccines work! Speaking of vaccines. Are they working? Yes! They are absolutely doing their expected job. We know a lot about vaccines for upper respiratory viruses, as we have been giving the population one every year for decades (influenza). To explain all of this, I need to provide some biological context. When you get a vaccine as a “shot,” the “antigen” in the vaccine leads to formation of an antibody response. You probably knew that. What’s important, though, is that it primarily leads to a specific Immunoglobulin G (IgG) response. That’s the antibody type that circulates around in really high numbers in the blood, is located some in tissues and is more easily detectable by blood tests, etc.
What that shot does not do is produce an Immunoglobulin A (IgA) antibody response to the virus at the surface of the throat mucosa. That’s the antibody type that could prevent the virus from ever binding in the first place. As such, in a vaccinated person, the virus can still attach like it’s about to break into the house, but it doesn’t realize that there is an armed homeowner on the other side of the door. When that virus is detected, the IgG beats it up and clears it before the person gets very ill (or ill at all). (Sidebar: Anyone ever had their kid — or themselves — get the “Flumist” vaccine as their annual flu booster? The idea there is to introduce the antigens at the surface of the throat mucosa leading to that IgA response that will prevent infection from happening at all. Sounds good and still has a place, but it isn’t quite as effective overall as the shot.)
4. Five days. There is another recent publication out of Singapore with data that confirms something we suspected. I will explain more about the “why” on this below when I talk about vaccines, but the gist is this: The viral loads in thethroats of vaccinated persons who become infected with delta rises at identical rates as in unvaccinated persons, but only for the first few days. After five days or so, the viral loads in the vaccinated person start to quickly drop whereas those in the unvaccinated person persist. This key set of observations is important for several reasons relating to vaccinated persons serving as vectors for spread (see below).
5. Young people. This pandemic, Round 2, is primarily being observed in younger patients than in Round 1. Our children’s hospitals are even already filling up or full. Because of the delta viral dynamics, it is much more capable of causing severe disease in a larger swath of the population. You spew enough of any human pathogen on someone without immunity, and it’s not going to end well. This sets up very poorly for the beginning of the school year — which has already started in Florida — and it scares me. Check that. It is actually terrifying. I sure hope we have vaccines for the 5- to 11-year-olds soon.
I wanna particularly drive in that last one, number five. The current round of the pandemic is a pandemic of younger patients. On average the age of infected people is 20 years younger this time than it was last year and we are seeing it infect and even kill young healthy people, the ones exposed the most like first responders, in the age range of 30 and 40 years old with no pre-existing conditions Who have chosen for various reasons not to get the vaccine.. That should be a very sobering fact to everybody. It’s also infecting pediatric patients at a much higher rate and severity This time around as well.
It is a great source for people to understand how it works. The author is an excellent researcher. I highly recommend reading his work.
One final significant FACT everybody needs to understand is well over 95% of all mortality during this current surge of the pandemic is in unvaccinated patients. Well over 80% of the hospitalizations this go around are in unvaccinated patients. And if you end up getting sick and placed on a ventilator there is very little I can do for you is there really are no good current effective treatments for coronavirus infection, so why risk it when a safe vaccine will increase your odds of preventing that from happening to you By a magnitude of over 1000 fold.
At least based on the current research at hand.
Apologies to all history and economic bachelor degree holders.
At least based on the current research at hand.
Apologies to all history and economic bachelor degree holders.
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I want to know more about 4 things.
1. This VACCINE for RSV. What is it's name?
2. Is the NIH a trusted source or not?
3. is the CDC a trusted source or not?
4. Are there treatments for Covid, yes or no?
I just realized why
Looks like @goldmom has been hoodwinked by the fake doctor again. I am going to use your own "credible" source YOU listed.
Learn about RSV in Infants and Young Children
RSV can be dangerous for some infants and young children.
"There is no vaccine yet to prevent RSV infection, but scientists are working hard to develop one. And there is a medicine that can help protect some babies at high risk for severe RSV disease. Healthcare providers usually give this medicine (called palivizumab) to premature infants and young children with certain heart and lung conditions as a series of monthly shots during RSV season. If you are concerned about your child’s risk for severe RSV infection, talk to your child’s healthcare provider."
Palivizumab (Synagi) is a humanized monoclonal antibody
So, just like Covid....There is a MONONCLONAL treatment, but I am glad to see you are finally recommending Monoclonal treatments for respiratory viruses, including covid.
Damn, doc....back to med school you go.
I fight one fight in the hospital, I fight the other one in here. I am equally up for both.
I notice you didn't correct YOUR misinformation. So yes, Real Doctors are fighting you/themselves I guess. Answer the 4 questions I asked please. Your followers need answers.
1. This VACCINE for RSV. What is it's name?
2. Is the NIH a trusted source or not?
3. is the CDC a trusted source or not?
4. Are there treatments for Covid, yes or no?
@GhostOfMatchesMalone @jfegaly @Gator Fever @fsumc @kjfreeze come meet the victims of misinformation:
Karri Oakes and her husband Jeffrey are both in the ICU with COVID-19. The couple has been married for 27 years and has caught COVID-19 twice. They were not hospitalized last time, and the couple said they wanted to wait to get vaccinated.
"We thought that the fact that we had it last year would give us some additional protection this year," Jeffrey told CBS News' David Begnaud.
"The Delta variant is really, really nasty. And anyone who thinks that they can just come through this, they're wrong," Karri added.
Dr. Chris Thomas's ICU is full of patients like the Oakes. Some are scared or regretful, like 42-year-old Ronald Banks, who has a three-month-old at home but is now hospitalized with COVID.
"We have two pandemics. We have a pandemic of a Delta virus that's ravaging our community. And we have a pandemic of misinformation. These people are smart, they're making what I think they believe are sound decisions as it relates to the vaccine," said Dr. Thomas, a critical care specialist at Baton Rouge General. "And I'm not frustrated with them anymore. I'm just frustrated that we've got to the point where we allow misinformation to equal medical science. They're not the same
That’s the best you got? When you can’t win an argument you resort to something like that I guess? Hey whatever works for your brother.
I’ll post the science you post the pseudoscience and propaganda and will let everybody make their own choices. Works for me
Melting.....I notice you are avoiding the questions, and the prospect of being wrong. AGAIN.That’s the best you got? When you can’t win an argument you resort to something like that I guess? Hey whatever works for your brother.
I’ll post the science you post the pseudoscience and propaganda and will let everybody make their own choices. Works for me
I know it's difficult for you, but here we go....again.
1. This VACCINE for RSV. What is it's name?
2. Is the NIH a trusted source or not?
3. is the CDC a trusted source or not?
4. Are there treatments for Covid, yes or no?
My guess....you will avoid it again.
Still avoiding the questions, and I understand why. As a doctor with an ego like you have, it’s difficult to be wrong so much.
Melting continues. Your silence on this speaks volumes.
As for me…..
There is not a vax for RSV.
There is a treatment for it. I had a client that was a compounding pharmacy that also did RSV shots. RSV is common but is not dangerous for the average kid.
RSV can be deadly for premature babies.
Low income families are at the most risk for having premies.
So most families coming to the pharmacy for shots were low income and on Tennessee's version of medicaid known as TennCare.
The pharma was sued for how it calculated its pricing and lost in court. Private insurance that made up about 10% of the clients worked with the pharma to find a legal workaround that kept the price close to the same.
TennCare said it would pay $10 for a shot that the Pharma was getting $100 previously.
This was a major hit to its revenue and they closed 8 months later.
Not sure about now but at the time the only other place to go was Memphis.
There is a treatment for it. I had a client that was a compounding pharmacy that also did RSV shots. RSV is common but is not dangerous for the average kid.
RSV can be deadly for premature babies.
Low income families are at the most risk for having premies.
So most families coming to the pharmacy for shots were low income and on Tennessee's version of medicaid known as TennCare.
The pharma was sued for how it calculated its pricing and lost in court. Private insurance that made up about 10% of the clients worked with the pharma to find a legal workaround that kept the price close to the same.
TennCare said it would pay $10 for a shot that the Pharma was getting $100 previously.
This was a major hit to its revenue and they closed 8 months later.
Not sure about now but at the time the only other place to go was Memphis.
We should trust ourselves. If it smells like someone is bullshitting you, they probably are.
But you're just a parrot that @gator1776 PMed to come over here and help him with his latest 'get a rise out of these guys' ploy.
Because the last one didn't work either.
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