Basketball

[Gator Fever]

Anybody want to bet whether Florida makes the tournament?

I am almost tempted with our schedule being backloaded more with the harder teams more than the early SEC schedule but I think 11 - 7 even without hardly any nice wins gets us in. Xavier is the only decent win we have this whole season.

I think if we go 1-2 in our next 3 games there is a good chance we miss the tourney.

 

[sadgator]

IA second round loss is acceptable to you?

Yes. Why? Because although this team is talented, it is comprised mainly of freshman and sophomores and one really good grad transfer who has been here for one half of a season.

And that is the end point. sadgator also looks at the SEC tourney, which is almost more important to sadgator than the NCAA..

Going in, we all knew that the media “ranking” of this team was inflated. Now everybody’s acting like it was our God-given right to have like an undefeated season or something.

This season was always going to be about how well and quickly the young guys matured and how the team would gel together.

Even in the loss last night, you can see some signs of young guys like Lewis and Locke stepping up. It’ll be a long season of up and downs, and hopefully by the end, they’ve been through enough wars that they will be playing their best...but you never know...

As far as last night is concerned, yeah sadgator is certainly concerned about it and agrees our three point defense sucked...but that was one of those crazy nights where the opposing team was on fire shooting 60 something from both the field and from three. It was what it was.

The next four games are going to be very difficult, so hopefully we’ll see some good things...

The one thing sadgator will say is that even being down big last night, they still were hustling and fighting until very late in the game...so that is worth something to sadgator...they don’t quit...

 

[ashenesey]

I think it’s very realistic that this team doesn’t even make the tournament....

To date there is only 1 good resume’ win.

SEC is rough this year
Teams like UGA and Arkansas who have been counted on for W’s in the past..... and will now be VERY tough games.

The talent is there for an elite 8/final 4 run.

Where do we stand with an NIT appearance with this roster?

 

[ashenesey]

I just thought at the time the White hire was the quintessential “Foley hire” (like Mcelwain)

White did not deserve a job like UF (who is a top 5 hoops program in the country (results-wise) over the past 20 years....

When white took over, Donavan mailed it in his last season, but right before that we were coming off of a run that is “blue blood worthy”

The SEC now has a bunch of “high level” basketball coaches:
Pearl, Creen, Mussleman, etc....

I’m just not sure where White falls in the group of current coaches and what his ceiling is...
It’s just not very high in my opinion

 

[Gator Fever]

I think it’s very realistic that this team doesn’t even make the tournament....

To date there is only 1 good resume’ win.

SEC is rough this year
Teams like UGA and Arkansas who have been counted on for W’s in the past..... and will now be VERY tough games.

The talent is there for an elite 8/final 4 run.

Where do we stand with an NIT appearance with this roster?

This as the media ranks early based on the talent and we are supposed to be top 10 level there and many of the top teams are young also due to NBA departures and how that works.

There is still time to right the ship but one Xavier win up to this point where they are dropping quickly themselves is unacceptable with this roster.

 

[PacoGator19]

Yes. Why? Because although this team is talented, it is comprised mainly of freshman and sophomores and one really good grad transfer who has been here for one half of a season.

And that is the end point. sadgator also looks at the SEC tourney, which is almost more important to sadgator than the NCAA..

Going in, we all knew that the media “ranking” of this team was inflated. Now everybody’s acting like it was our God-given right to have like an undefeated season or something.

This season was always going to be about how well and quickly the young guys matured and how the team would gel together.

Even in the loss last night, you can see some signs of young guys like Lewis and Locke stepping up. It’ll be a long season of up and downs, and hopefully by the end, they’ve been through enough wars that they will be playing their best...but you never know...

As far as last night is concerned, yeah sadgator is certainly concerned about it and agrees our three point defense sucked...but that was one of those crazy nights where the opposing team was on fire shooting 60 something from both the field and from three. It was what it was.

The next four games are going to be very difficult, so hopefully we’ll see some good things...

The one thing sadgator will say is that even being down big last night, they still were hustling and fighting until very late in the game...so that is worth something to sadgator...they don’t quit...

Huh? That is what college basketball is these days. A bunch of programs win with freshmen and sophomores. We also have a senior transfer that was highly regarded.

 

[instaGATOR]

Mmmmm it’s a poorly coached basketball team and a coach that recruited a bunch of players that can’t shoot. You can’t run the type of offense he wants to run and not recruit any pure shooters. We sometimes get wide open looks but shoot bricks. There really isn’t a pure shooter on the entire team.

The team is poorly coached if you have your head where the sun don't shine during the games. If you are watching his 20+ wins every season, with a 2nd year Elite-8 finish, after taking over a loser 16-17 team, then maybe he's actually an exceptional coach. Others seem to think so, since 3 difference conferences have awarded him their CoY, (MWC - C-USA - SEC).

Wow. you sure know you stuff Paco19, gotta hand it to ya, no shooters...

SG Noah Locke 6-3 207 Soph

Overview

• An elite shooter who set Florida’s freshman record with 81 made 3-pointers.
• His 6 games with 5 or more made 3-pointers also marked the most all-time by a UF freshman.
• Florida’s 2nd-leading scorer as a freshman with 9.4 points per game and ranked fifth in the SEC with 2.3 3-point field goals per game.
• Possesses a 6-foot-8 wingspan and is a dangerous shooter both off the dribble and in catch-and-shoot situations.
• One of the top shooters in the nation’s 2018 class, Locke rates as a four-star prospect and was a member of the ESPN 100.
• • Starting alongside fellow freshmen Keyontae Johnson and Andrew Nembhard, Locke was part of the first freshman trio to start at Florida since 1999 when LaDarius Halton, Udonis Haslen and Mike Miller started together.
  • His streak of nine straight double-figure scoring games was the longest by a Florida freshman since Bradley Beal had 10 straight in 2011-12.
  • His six games with 5+ 3-pointers surpassed Kenny Boynton’s old record (four) for the most such games by a Florida freshman.
  • Exploded for 27 points, including 7-for-13 from 3-point range, in the win vs. Texas A&M. He and KeVaughn Allen, who made eight 3-pointers, combined for 15 threes, most ever by two Florida players in a single game.
  Prep:
  McDonogh School’s all-time leading scorer with 2,350 career points.
  Shot 46 percent from 3-point range in Nike EYBL competition.

==========

SG Tre Mann 6-4 172 Fr
Rated by many as the Best Shooter coming out of HS in the last recruit class.

Prep

• Earned McDonald’s All-American honors.
• He had 5 Pt's, 3 reb's and 2 stl's in the rotation of the Micky-D AA game.
• Competed in the 2019 Jordan Brand Classic.
• Led The Villages to a 23-8 record and an appearance in the Class 5A state semifinals, averaging 23.6 pt's, 4.9 reb's, 3.1 ast's and 2.1 stl's per game.
• Earned 3rd-team All-State honors as a junior from the Florida Association of Basketball Coaches.
• Rated No. 31 in the ESPN 100 rankings.
• Competed in the 2018 Pangos All-American camp.

==========

Then you can add in guys like this talented TN State Champ PG.
A 5-11 PG that can assist, shoot 3's, or play either end of the 'Anney-Oop' play.


==========

Apparently some here forget that shooters can have hot or cold games, just like baseball batters can, and more so when they are underclassmen...

 

[Countygator1]

Yes. Why? Because although this team is talented, it is comprised mainly of freshman and sophomores and one really good grad transfer who has been here for one half of a season.

And that is the end point. sadgator also looks at the SEC tourney, which is almost more important to sadgator than the NCAA..

Going in, we all knew that the media “ranking” of this team was inflated. Now everybody’s acting like it was our God-given right to have like an undefeated season or something.

This season was always going to be about how well and quickly the young guys matured and how the team would gel together.

Even in the loss last night, you can see some signs of young guys like Lewis and Locke stepping up. It’ll be a long season of up and downs, and hopefully by the end, they’ve been through enough wars that they will be playing their best...but you never know...

As far as last night is concerned, yeah sadgator is certainly concerned about it and agrees our three point defense sucked...but that was one of those crazy nights where the opposing team was on fire shooting 60 something from both the field and from three. It was what it was.

The next four games are going to be very difficult, so hopefully we’ll see some good things...

The one thing sadgator will say is that even being down big last night, they still were hustling and fighting until very late in the game...so that is worth something to sadgator...they don’t quit...

Wow, you just channeled your inner bulldog with this one....

 

[sadgator]

Agree with insta. Everybody is writing White’s obituary WAY too soon. Just like everybody was saying we weren’t going to make the tournament (or win a game) at the same time last year...

look at Billy’s records and take note of the MULTIPLE years we lost in the first and second rounds or didn’t make it at all...

And people are now acting like losing in the first or second round of the NCAA is some kind of sin or beneath Florida basketball...

weird...

it’s fine to have lofty expectations, but people gotta understand reality man...

 

[sadgator]

Wow, you just channeled your inner bulldog with this one....

Why? Because sadgator is expressing a little optimism, hope, and belief in our players and coaching staff, ok...

 

[sadgator]

And sadgator will readily admit, he knows VERY little about basketball strategy or coaching. If there are schemes or adjustments we either are or or aren’t making that don’t benefit our players’ skills, then it is fine to be critical of that,

but we’re like 10-5 with a half season to go and a team that (as far as sadgator can see) really brings a lot of hustle and energy to their play...

the doom and gloom just seems like an overreaction to sadgator at this point...

 

[sadgator]

...and we play Auburn who’s like number 5 and Baylor who’s like the best team in the County coming up in the next few days...

Everybody is gonna be like freaking out that we could possibly lose those games and calling for White’s dismissal...

Wonder if those same folks will give him any credit if we are competitive or happen to win (gasp) one of them...

 

[instaGATOR]

I just thought at the time the White hire was the quintessential “Foley hire” (like Mcelwain)

White did not deserve a job like UF (who is a top 5 hoops program in the country (results-wise) over the past 20 years....

When white took over, Donavan mailed it in his last season, but right before that we were coming off of a run that is “blue blood worthy”

The SEC now has a bunch of “high level” basketball coaches:
Pearl, Creen, Mussleman, etc....

I’m just not sure where White falls in the group of current coaches and what his ceiling is...
It’s just not very high in my opinion

That's pretty funny, since the new AD Stricklin recently gave Mike a raise and a contract extension to keep him at UF, at least through the 2023-24 season.

BTW, what does it say about a coach & program when YOU CLAIM that he mailed it in, and then he bailed out on the team & program???

As to where White falls in the SEC coaching ranks. He's one of only 2 SEC coaches to make the Dance the last 3 consecutive years, (UK's Cal-Cheat is the other).

Record at UF: 99-58 .631 (coaching in his 5th season in 2019-20)
2016-17 SEC Elite-8 CoY.
-----
Overall Record: 200-98 .671 (coaching in his 9th season in 2019-20)
Previously Awarded the MWC & C-USA CoY.

Mike White has consistently reaffirmed the Gators’ place as a perennial NCAA Tournament threat and Southeastern Conference contender, posting a fourth straight 20-win season and third consecutive NCAA Tournament berth in 2018-19.

The Gators continued their trend of season-long improvement and peaking late in the season, as an up-and-down 12-11 start (as opposed to a 10-5 start now) gave way to a late surge to earn an SEC Tournament semifinal appearance and an NCAA Tournament first-round victory. Florida is one of 10 teams in the nation that has earned at least one victory in each of the past three NCAA Tournaments.
~~ That looks to me like Mike White is a Top 10 in the Nation B-Ball coach...

Maybe instead of basking in your rather obvious ignorance and village idiot opinions, some of you should go here for some accurate information and for a much needed change.
https://floridagators.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/coaches/mike-white/1031

 

[bradleygator]

Huh? That is what college basketball is these days. A bunch of programs win with freshmen and sophomores. We also have a senior transfer that was highly regarded.

Co-sign on this. Yes, we’re young. So is everyone else. That’s the deal in college hoops.

 

[Countygator1]

Why? Because sadgator is expressing a little optimism, hope, and belief in our players and coaching staff, ok...

No, because you threw out the we are young excuse

 

[instaGATOR]

Co-sign on this. Yes, we’re young. So is everyone else. That’s the deal in college hoops.

No, sorry, that's just FoS Speak....

UF is the 14th youngest team out of 353 D1 B-Ball teams, so everyone but 13 other teams are NOT as young as UF is. I mean,,, Just-Damn with the gross stupidity...

14 of 353 is 3.96%, so 96.04% of all other D1 teams are NOT as young as UF.

 

[PacoGator19]

Young excuse doesn’t really work in the world of college basketball these days. Especially when we return multiple starters from last years team and a highly regarded senior transfer.

 

[PacoGator19]

My biggest complaint is here we are 5 years in to the White era and we still don’t run an offense. In addition to that I don’t see much improvement over a 5 year span either. Sorry I just don’t get the feeling we are heading in the right direction.

 

[instaGATOR]

Young excuse doesn’t really work in the world of college basketball these days. Especially when we return multiple starters from last years team and a highly regarded senior transfer.

C Gak rsJr -- Never recovered, never produced, and he left the team last month.
PF Bassett rsJr - Good guy, good student, good role player, but not a starter.
PF Blackshear has been in foul trouble in several games which has greatly reduced his playing minutes so far this season. And he's a 3 star that has done well, but he's not a 5 star Micky-D, so don't go over-board on him. Highly regaured, but he still has to try and meld in with 3 Soph's and 5 Fr. This is a season long 'melding process' imo.
-----
The 3 Soph underclassmen that were forced to start last year at some point are:
Johnson started 20 games.
Locke started 26 games.
Nembhard is the only one that started all 36 games.

So much for your "we return multiple starters' BS.

 

[instaGATOR]

My biggest complaint is here we are 5 years in to the White era and we still don’t run an offense. In addition to that I don’t see much improvement over a 5 year span either. Sorry I just don’t get the feeling we are heading in the right direction.

Lucky for the rest of us Gator fans, what the blind don't see is not much to worry about.
Maybe you should take if up with AD Stricklin, since he just gave White a raise and a contract extension. I guess he has better vision that some here....

 

[ocalaman]

I think it’s very realistic that this team doesn’t even make the tournament....

To date there is only 1 good resume’ win.

SEC is rough this year
Teams like UGA and Arkansas who have been counted on for W’s in the past..... and will now be VERY tough games.

The talent is there for an elite 8/final 4 run.

Where do we stand with an NIT appearance with this roster?

I agree that the SEC is competitive this year, but it is not a strong conference compared to others. It's just that teams can beat up on each other due to more parity. But by no means is the SEC an elite basketball conference. We only have 1 team in the Top 20 in NET rankings, Auburn at #5. Right now UF is #54, not even close at this point to getting in the Big Dance. Here is the up to date NET rankings: https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings. The SEC is way behind the ACC, Big 10, Pac-12, Big 12, the Atlantic 10 and maybe even the Big East as far as NET

Explanation of the NET, main criteria being used by the NCAA for determining tournament bids. - The NCAA has developed a new ranking system to replace the RPI as the primary sorting tool for evaluating teams during the Division I men’s basketball season. The new ranking system was approved in late July after months of consultation with the Division I Men’s Basketball Committee, the National Association of Basketball Coaches, top basketball analytics experts and Google Cloud Professional Services.
The NCAA Evaluation Tool, which will be known as the NET, relies on game results, strength of schedule, game location, scoring margin, net offensive and defensive efficiency, and the quality of wins and losses. To make sense of team performance data, late-season games (including from the NCAA tournament) were used as test sets to develop a ranking model leveraging machine learning techniques. The model, which used team performance data to predict the outcome of games in test sets, was optimized until it was as accurate as possible. The resulting model is the one that will be used as the NET going forward.)

 

[Justpeachy7]

Agreed as well that the young excuse doesn't "fly". UK is perpetually young and they have high expectations almost every year because of the talent and Cal at the helm.

UF has great talent. UK members on Catpause admitted that and were surprised that UF was thrashed by Mizzou.

UF has all the things that UK and other recently successful programs have had......talent and coaches that have been at the program long enough to implement a system............yet it's failing quite hard.

 

[PacoGator19]

C Gak rsJr -- Never recovered, never produced, and he left the team last month.
PF Bassett rsJr - Good guy, good student, good role player, but not a starter.
PF Blackshear has been in foul trouble in several games which has greatly reduced his playing minutes so far this season. And he's a 3 star that has done well, but he's not a 5 star Micky-D, so don't go over-board on him. Highly regaured, but he still has to try and meld in with 3 Soph's and 5 Fr. This is a season long 'melding process' imo.
-----
The 3 Soph underclassmen that were forced to start last year at some point are:
Johnson started 20 games.
Locke started 26 games.
Nembhard is the only one that started all 36 games.

So much for your "we return multiple starters' BS.

So if my math is correct that is 3 returning starters and a senior transfer. Sounds like a fairly experienced team actually.

 

[Countygator1]

So if my math is correct that is 3 returning starters and a senior transfer. Sounds like a fairly experienced team actually.

Basically 4 returning starters and we let a below average mizzou team beat us like we were North Florida.

 

[Gator Fever]

...and we play Auburn who’s like number 5 and Baylor who’s like the best team in the County coming up in the next few days...

Everybody is gonna be like freaking out that we could possibly lose those games and calling for White’s dismissal...

Wonder if those same folks will give him any credit if we are competitive or happen to win (gasp) one of them...

If we go 1-2 in our next 3 SEC games I doubt we make the tourney though a Baylor upset would at least allow us to get in at 10-8 in the SEC even without a SEC tourney run probably.

 

[sadgator]

...yet it's failing quite hard.

What does that even mean?

 

[sadgator]

If we fail to make the tournament, sadgator will be astonished and will gladly concede that we have a problem...but sadgator fully believes that our best basketball is yet to come...

 

[sadgator]

My biggest complaint is here we are 5 years in to the White era and we still don’t run an offense....

That would be the most valid criticism in this thread...

sadgator honestly has never really understood the strategy of the sport well enough to know what is good and what is bad x and o coaching...he just knows what passes the eye test...in sadgator’s opinion, we really don’t look that bad...but perhaps there are things underlying...it is possible...we’ll soon know if what they are doing works...

 

[Justpeachy7]

What does that even mean?

Look at the last 2 years of final results. UF has had the talent to do better than that, but didn't.

 

[PacoGator19]

That would be the most valid criticism in this thread...

sadgator honestly has never really understood the strategy of the sport well enough to know what is good and what is bad x and o coaching...he just knows what passes the eye test...in sadgator’s opinion, we really don’t look that bad...but perhaps there are things underlying...it is possible...we’ll soon know if what they are doing works...

So if you don’t know the sport well enough and understand the basics of the sport how can you even comment if White is any good or not??

You really don’t think we look that bad?

 

[Gator Fever]

Lucky for the rest of us Gator fans, what the blind don't see is not much to worry about.
Maybe you should take if up with AD Stricklin, since he just gave White a raise and a contract extension. I guess he has better vision that some here....

Did Foley or Stricklin give Butters that raise before he left?

 

[Nicktheslick]

Basically 4 returning starters and we let a below average mizzou team beat us like we were North Florida.

You do know that with the three point shot any team can get hot and blister you on a given night especially on the road.

 

[Justpeachy7]

Doing less with more....just like last year...

Last year the starting five were 3 four stars, 1 five star, .....

And for good measure a transfer(Hudson) who was definitely not young.

This year's lacking play is not a rarity, it's a continuing trend. Losing in the second round again, for the third straight year, is not excusable for a program with the talent UF has gotten. If you keep excusing it on youth, then you might as well resign yourself to never doing better than being eliminated in the early rounds. I have no doubt that UK, given the exact same same players, would not have gotten bounced in the 2nd round ....and the kicker is that many UK fans dont even consider Cal to be that great of a game day coach.

Something is lacking from UFs side....and one thing is for sure, "time" is not the cure.

 

[Countygator1]

You do know that with the three point shot any team can get hot and blister you on a given night especially on the road.

I get that. The 3 point line can change a game quickly. But they were hot in the first half and we did not make any adjustments to stop the open looks. Some of their shots were contested, but the majority were wide open looks. It continued in the 2nd half.

 

[ocalaman]

Thomas Goldkamp is a pretty knowledgeable guy about Gator sports and here's his take on the basketball program: https://247sports.com/college/flori...tually-a-hallmark-of-Whites-Gators-142086899/

The consistency under Mike White is inconsistency - and that's not a good thing.

 

[Justpeachy7]

Thomas Goldkamp is a pretty knowledgeable guy about Gator sports and here's his take on the basketball program: https://247sports.com/college/flori...tually-a-hallmark-of-Whites-Gators-142086899/

The consistency under Mike White is inconsistency - and that's not a good thing.

Good article...
And as a fan, there is a consistancy of never having a sure confidence of a win, no matter if UF played a NC contender or the local high school varsity team.

The consistent inconsistency performance of the program isn't just for one group of players. There's something wrong somewhere.

 

[Justpeachy7]

No, sorry, that's just FoS Speak....

UF is the 14th youngest team out of 353 D1 B-Ball teams, so everyone but 13 other teams are NOT as young as UF is. I mean,,, Just-Damn with the gross stupidity...

14 of 353 is 3.96%, so 96.04% of all other D1 teams are NOT as young as UF.

Throw out all the stats you want but the proof is in the pudding. Teams can and have won national championships...or closely contended for them despite being young. UF has gotten lesser results the last couple years despite having good talent. If UF was only getting three star players,....than yes....back to back 2nd round losses wouldn't be surprising. That's not the case though, is it? Uf has been getting 4 and 5 star players and are losing to teams like Utah State and fighting for their lives against middle of the pack(at best) teams.

Stats have been proven to not tell the whole story in multiple sports. There's a reason why stats often dont translate to whether someone wins or loses. And that's why....I figure. ..once you commonly roll out the stat angle, people roll their eyes(so to speak) and dont even bother reading all your posts.

 

[sadgator]

You really don’t think we look that bad?

Not really.

 

[IrishPokerDog]

Throw out all the stats you want but the proof is in the pudding. Teams can and have won national championships...or closely contended for them despite being young. UF has gotten lesser results the last couple years despite having good talent. If UF was only getting three star players,....than yes....back to back 2nd round losses wouldn't be surprising. That's not the case though, is it? Uf has been getting 4 and 5 star players and are losing to teams like Utah State and fighting for their lives against middle of the pack(at best) teams.

Stats have been proven to not tell the whole story in multiple sports. There's a reason why stats often dont translate to whether someone wins or loses. And that's why....I figure. ..once you commonly roll out the stat angle, people roll their eyes(so to speak) and dont even bother reading all your posts.

Actually he doesn’t have to include any stats for people to roll their eyes at his posts

 

[Countygator1]

Excellent article by Goldkamp. He lays out perfectly what we've been trying to articulate. I don't see anything changing this season. We will be up and down and hopefully up enough to sneak into the tourney. But at what point is enough enough?