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A friendly reminder now that the coronavirus thing is happening

Trump supporters just ignore what this is...half the County is buying into rhetorical bs regardless of what the facts are...amazing really...this shouldn’t happen in 2020, but is what you get when an admin has spent 4 years contesting and distorting the truth and attacking the free press...it’s the main reason for the first amendment really...

SADly, we should have two top intellectual thinkers like senile sleepy Joe, backed up by the Wicked Witch of the West Nancy, in charge of our country and our health. An extremely old rich white limousine liberal couple to tell us all how to do everything, everyday, and every minute. o_O

Now that would be a real Dim-Moe-Rat paradise for us all... :rolleyes:

(just the momentary thought of that gave me the cold shivers) :confused:
 
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I agree with a lot of this. Once Trump got on board with the reality of the situation he has listened to his advisers and had the country take the needed steps. I just wish he had listened a bit sooner.

You mean like when he closed the border to China and got called a racists for by the 'Open Border' Dim-Moe-Rats???
Note: An 'Open Border' = No Border = No Country, just lawless chaos. o_O

The same Dim-Moe-Rats that cost taxpayers 300+ BILLION a year paying for the support of an illegal invading army, but think that 5 Billion for a wall to control our Southern border is a Republican ripoff???
 
You mean like when he closed the border to China and got called a racists for by the 'Open Border' Dim-Moe-Rats???
Note: An 'Open Border' = No Border = No Country, just lawless chaos. o_O

The same Dim-Moe-Rats that cost taxpayers 300+ BILLION a year paying for the support of an illegal invading army, but think that 5 Billion for a wall to control our Southern border is a Republican ripoff???
https://nationalfile.com/flashback-...chinese-coronavirus-travel-ban-as-xenophobia/

In response to the travel ban, Schumer tweeted on Feb. 5, “The premature travel ban to and from China by the current administration is just an excuse to further his ongoing was against immigrants. There must be a check and Balance (sic) on these restrictions.”

While Trump has implemented travel bans on China and Iran — two of the most coronavirus-affected nations in the world — House Democrats are looking to roll back the president’s authority to enact travel bans from regions of the world.

The “No Ban Act,” introduced by Rep. Judy Chu (D-CA) and co-sponsored by 219 House Democrats, would have prevented Trump from immediately implementing a travel ban on China once the outbreak of the coronavirus spread past its origins of Wuhan.

Instead, the No Ban Act would have allowed travelers from Wuhan to continue to arrive in the U.S. while the president received guidance from Congress.

“This bill imposes limitations on the President’s authority to suspend or restrict aliens from entering the United States and terminates certain presidential actions implementing such restrictions,” a summary of the legislation reads.

The legislation would mandate Trump “only issue a restriction when required to address a compelling government interest,” though that interest is not defined. Before imposing a travel ban, Trump would have to “consult with Congress,” the legislation dictates.

Likewise, Democrat Senators Christopher Murphy (D-CT), Christopher Coons (D-DE), Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), and Richard Blumenthal (D-CT) have introduced legislation to stop Trump’s recent expansion of a travel ban on some legal immigration from Burma, Eritrea, Kyrgyzstan, Nigeria, Tanzania, and Sudan, along with Iran, Libya, North Korea, Somalia, Syria, Venezuela, and Yemen.

The legislation states:

No funds, resources, or fees made available to the Secretary of Homeland Security, or to any other official of a Federal agency, by any Act of Congress for any fiscal year may be used to implement or enforce Presidential Proclamation 9983 … which restricts the entry into the United States of nationals of certain countries.

The effort to end America’s ability to implement travel bans comes as the number of coronavirus cases hits 1,107 nationwide, including 32 deaths.

Democrats’ fight to keep U.S. borders open to the world during the spread of the coronavirus was echoed by 2020 Democrat presidential primary candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) this week when he explicitly said he would not close America’s borders to protect Americans from the coronavirus.
 
FL apparently just took off some. I wonder if all those New Yorkers coming down caused that.
 
FL apparently just took off some. I wonder if all those New Yorkers coming down caused that.
Didn't help, I'm sure. A friend of mine is an X-Ray tech in an Ocala hospital and said a guy flew in from New York last week and then came to the hospital complaining of Covid-19 symptoms, then got mad that the staff asked him a bunch of "personal" questions. My wife & I were driving home from a graveside funeral last Saturday and on I-75 near Lake City we passed a car with New York plates crammed to the roof with luggage. Being one of the top tourist destinations in the world, even with places shut down, it's no wonder Florida is getting it's share of this virus. But many of the rural counties have no reported cases.
 
You mean like when he closed the border to China and got called a racists for by the 'Open Border' Dim-Moe-Rats???
Note: An 'Open Border' = No Border = No Country, just lawless chaos. o_O

The same Dim-Moe-Rats that cost taxpayers 300+ BILLION a year paying for the support of an illegal invading army, but think that 5 Billion for a wall to control our Southern border is a Republican ripoff???

Insta slapping people with facts. Open hand and all
 
You mean like when he closed the border to China and got called a racists for by the 'Open Border' Dim-Moe-Rats???
Note: An 'Open Border' = No Border = No Country, just lawless chaos. o_O

The same Dim-Moe-Rats that cost taxpayers 300+ BILLION a year paying for the support of an illegal invading army, but think that 5 Billion for a wall to control our Southern border is a Republican ripoff???

Good God, you're dumb.

300 billion? Where did you get that number? Outside of Medicare and Social Security, which illegals do not get, that's more than the cost of the entire social support system.
 
Good God, you're dumb.

300 billion? Where did you get that number? Outside of Medicare and Social Security, which illegals do not get, that's more than the cost of the entire social support system.
He might be right on the number...12-20 illegals and almost none pay taxes except a sales tax and yes lots get social security, Medicare, Medicaid and other social benefits that they don't pay into. These are facts and Regan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama have let this happen...oh also the talking heads in both parties that haven't done a damn thing about this for 50 years.
 
He might be right on the number...12-20 illegals and almost none pay taxes except a sales tax and yes lots get social security, Medicare, Medicaid and other social benefits that they don't pay into. These are facts and Regan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama have let this happen...oh also the talking heads in both parties that haven't done a damn thing about this for 50 years.
President Trump claimed illegal immigrants cost taxpayers $300 billion per year at one point. That number may have come from a 2016 report by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. According to a Washington Times article on that report, “Immigration drains the government, sapping as much as $296 billion a year from federal, state and local taxpayers while depressing wages, at least in the short run.” The last comprehensive study I found says the number is closer to $116 billion, but that was in 2017. Here's a link to an article about that, which links to the study itself. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...l-immigration-average-8-075-each-25-000-in-ny
But here's a 2019 article that says another Trump claim of a $250 billion annual cost may be accurate.
https://thehill.com/opinion/immigra...ng-the-spiraling-costs-of-illegal-immigration

In any event illegal immigration is a major burden on American citizen taxapers and one that is increasing every year.
 
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President Trumop claimed illegal immigrants cost taxpayers $300 billion per year at one point. That number may have come from a 2016 report by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. According to a Washington Times article on that report, “Immigration drains the government, sapping as much as $296 billion a year from federal, state and local taxpayers while depressing wages, at least in the short run.” The last comprehensive study I found says the number is closer to $116 billion, but that was in 2017. Here's a link to an article about that, which links to the study itself. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...l-immigration-average-8-075-each-25-000-in-ny
But here's a 2019 article that says another Trump claim of a $250 billion annual cost may be accurate.
https://thehill.com/opinion/immigra...ng-the-spiraling-costs-of-illegal-immigration

In any event illegal immigration is a major burden on American citizen taxapers and one that is increasing every year.

It's hard to say because so much of it is off the books.

That mentioned, most years the total Federal revenue...about 30% comes from Income taxes which most illegals don't pay because they make money under the table.
 


Chair of NYC health committee....

Since NY and NJ are driving this basically maybe we can let most of the rest of the country off this crazy no-work lockdown stuff which there is no evidence so far helps anything and may even give it to more older people.

I hope NY is peaking now and going to fall soon in passings. Their respiratory inpatient admissions peaked about 3/27 - 3/28 so you would think this would be about their peak of daily passings now.
 
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If true I doubt there is any chance FL catches fire like some other places even with those NY people that ran down here a while back. CA and TX still staying under control also so far.
 
https://nationalfile.com/flashback-...chinese-coronavirus-travel-ban-as-xenophobia/

In response to the travel ban, Schumer tweeted on Feb. 5, “The premature travel ban to and from China by the current administration is just an excuse to further his ongoing was against immigrants. There must be a check and Balance (sic) on these restrictions.”.

There is already a check and balance in place, it's called an election for President.
The President has authority over the U.S. Borders, not the Congress. o_O


What corrupt-traitor to his oath Schumer really wants, is a way to 'OVER-RULE' the will of the people, by shackling their elected President. An attack on the President's Constitutional Authority is really a traitorous attack on the sovereignty of the people.

I don't just want these 220 traitors out of office, I want them and their like minded Senators up against a wall. ---- (but I'd settle for at least out of office) :cool:
 
Good God, you're dumb.

300 billion? Where did you get that number? Outside of Medicare and Social Security, which illegals do not get, that's more than the cost of the entire social support system.

I'm not surprised that a Rat would either be this ignorant of reality, or informed but making a Dim-Moe-Rats usual attempt to discredit anyone with the actual facts on a subject. o_O
Your trademark tactics used against those (the general public) with even fewer facts than you have. :rolleyes:

As to the cost of the illegal invading army, OAN has a running cost board on their front page. ----- Not their numbers, they list the sources. https://www.oann.com/
Total Cost already this year after just 3 months is already over 80 Billion. 4-4-20

OAN's source for cost:
Center for Immigration Studies, DHS Federation for American Immigration Reform, Institute for Defense Analyses, Yale, and MIT. --
https://www.oann.com/debtclock/

So suck it Moe-Ron.... :p
 
He might be right on the number...12-20 illegals and almost none pay taxes except a sales tax and yes lots get social security, Medicare, Medicaid and other social benefits that they don't pay into. These are facts and Regan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama have let this happen...oh also the talking heads in both parties that haven't done a damn thing about this for 50 years.

Social security payments are calculated based on the contributions made to your social security number over the course of your working life. If you want a calculation of how much you could be paid in social security, go to the website.

So of course, if you don't have a social security number, you can't have contributions, and then no payments. Medicare also requires a social security number, and is pretty closely tied to the social security administration, as you can have your medicare parts B and D deducted right from your social security payments. Medicaid, of course, is a different thing, and those who qualify for it aren't paying a whole lot in income tax anyway. But still, it requires a social security number, so undocumented don't have that either. Undocumented go to emergency rooms at county hospitals, free clinics, etc for heath care. Places that have a mandate not to turn anyone away.

This is what I don't get about the income tax complaint. What are they doing to work under the table? Construction? Construction sites get raided all the time looking for undocumented, and if they are found the company gets at least fined. And what are they making, $100 a day? 50 weeks a year that's 25,000, MFJ now deducts 24K a year. So they would pay taxes on $1,000. Of course, they aren't paying SS and Medicare tax, but as I said, they are shut out of those systems anyway, so why should they have to contribute? They can get food stamps, HUD housing, etc, but pretty sure those also require a SSN, which they don't have. So I'm trying to figure out how they are getting their hands on all this government money, hundreds of billions of dollars worth. It doesn't add up.

All of you who think immigration is so terrible need to go to the George W Bush website.

https://www.bushcenter.org/publicat...xuefSbLMou57kLhg1KWxqFb4rSeZhySBoCD_oQAvD_BwE

Note: Between SNAP, TANF and SSI, the country spends about 145 billion per year. Even if it all went to undocumented, which it obviously does not (even if they had SSN's, illegals would be getting a small percentage of that), that is nowhere near the $250-300 billion dollar numbers being bandied about.

https://usafacts.org/data/topics/pe...pql70KhGO6E4HDH0DJOniwB5YU0H91cRoC4TMQAvD_BwE
 
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Social security payments are calculated based on the contributions made to your social security number over the course of your working life. If you want a calculation of how much you could be paid in social security, go to the website.

So of course, if you don't have a social security number, you can't have contributions, and then no payments. Medicare also requires a social security number, and is pretty closely tied to the social security administration, as you can have your medicare parts B and D deducted right from your social security payments. Medicaid, of course, is a different thing, and those who qualify for it aren't paying a whole lot in income tax anyway. But still, it requires a social security number, so undocumented don't have that either. Undocumented go to emergency rooms at county hospitals, free clinics, etc for heath care. Places that have a mandate not to turn anyone away.

This is what I don't get about the income tax complaint. What are they doing to work under the table? Construction? Construction sites get raided all the time looking for undocumented, and if they are found the company gets at least fined. And what are they making, $100 a day? 50 weeks a year that's 25,000, MFJ now deducts 24K a year. So they would pay taxes on $1,000. Of course, they aren't paying SS and Medicare tax, but as I said, they are shut out of those systems anyway, so why should they have to contribute? They can get food stamps, HUD housing, etc, but pretty sure those also require a SSN, which they don't have. So I'm trying to figure out how they are getting their hands on all this government money, hundreds of billions of dollars worth. It doesn't add up.

All of you who think immigration is so terrible need to go to the George W Bush website.

https://www.bushcenter.org/publicat...xuefSbLMou57kLhg1KWxqFb4rSeZhySBoCD_oQAvD_BwE

Note: Between SNAP, TANF and SSI, the country spends about 145 billion per year. Even if it all went to undocumented, which it obviously does not (even if they had SSN's, illegals would be getting a small percentage of that), that is nowhere near the $250-300 billion dollar numbers being bandied about.

https://usafacts.org/data/topics/pe...pql70KhGO6E4HDH0DJOniwB5YU0H91cRoC4TMQAvD_BwE
Actually this is not completely accurate. Thousands of undocumented immigrants do indeed receive SS payments. They do so by using stolen or borrowed numbers. In same cases fake numbers are generated and not captured by the administration. Also undocumented immigrants are eligible for SSI benefits which is administered by SS department but funded differently. I live in DC and my sister in law is a very high ranking official in the admin. On a flip side, what is difficult to calculate is how much do they actually contribute in terms of taxes. The question becomes are they pulling more out of the system vs what they are putting in. My sis in law says they have tried to determine that number but very difficult to do. We have a very simple answer here. Let's just make the road to citizenship faster. The overwhelming majority of undocumented immigrants are hard working good people. We just need to keep out the less desirable criminals. We have plenty of those on our own.
 
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Actually this is not completely accurate. Thousands of undocumented immigrants do indeed receive SS payments. They do so by using stolen or borrowed numbers. In same cases fake numbers are generated and not captured by the administration. Also undocumented immigrants are eligible for SSI benefits which is administered by SS department but funded differently. I live in DC and my sister in law is a very high ranking official in the admin. On a flip side, what is difficult to calculate is how much do they actually contribute in terms of taxes. The question becomes are they pulling more out of the system vs what they are putting in. My sis in law says they have tried to determine that number but very difficult to do. We have a very simple answer here. Let's just make the road to citizenship faster. The overwhelming majority of undocumented immigrants are hard working good people. We just need to keep out the less desirable criminals. We have plenty of those on our own.
I'm not sure about granting citizenship to however many millions of people who ILLEGALLY came here. But I agree that many have taken advantage of a broken system to access ALL systems that should be for American citizens only. My 88 year old mother's identity was stolen and sold to an illegal in California, who filed a state income tax return out there under her name and SSN. And this was 7 years ago. She's never been West of the Mississippi River and I had to get our Congressman involved to get the state of California off her back. I was told by a governor's liaison out there that that's how illegals do it. They buy an American's identity then file something to get into the system and then apply for all the welfare benefits available. He said all the border states are overwhelmed by the abuses. I can'y imagine how worse the problem has gotten since the incident with my Mom. So it is a fact that illegals do illegally get SSN, Food Stamps, Medicare, and anything else they can get using a phony ID. It's a way of life and no one really knows how much the taxpayers are being ripped off, but it's probably more than any of the estimates given in this thread. We have a broken system that has been set up to fail and both Democrats and Republicans are responsible. The Bush Presidents and other RINO Republicans have catered to those who benefit by having illegals swarm into the country and it's incredible that we finally have a President who has tried for nearly 4 years to fix the problem and gets resistance from all quarters.
 
^^
Yeah but that's straight up fraud which nobody really agrees with. The challenge I have is when it's legal - you come here, have a kid...the kid has rights to medicaid etc. and you get some of that benefit because you are the parent etc.

It's a loophole of sorts that's not illegal...we just look the other way.

Btw I don't hear of many who are against immigration, it's the pesky illegal immigrates that most are opposed to. And I do agree with Trump that we should bring in the talent first and limit those lacking skills...it kills American citizens with limited skills. Hell - even labor unions oppose that.
 
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I'm not sure about granting citizenship to however many millions of people who ILLEGALLY came here. But I agree that many have taken advantage of a broken system to access ALL systems that should be for American citizens only. My 88 year old mother's identity was stolen and sold to an illegal in California, who filed a state income tax return out there under her name and SSN. And this was 7 years ago. She's never been West of the Mississippi River and I had to get our Congressman involved to get the state of California off her back. I was told by a governor's liaison out there that that's how illegals do it. They buy an American's identity then file something to get into the system and then apply for all the welfare benefits available. He said all the border states are overwhelmed by the abuses. I can'y imagine how worse the problem has gotten since the incident with my Mom. So it is a fact that illegals do illegally get SSN, Food Stamps, Medicare, and anything else they can get using a phony ID. It's a way of life and no one really knows how much the taxpayers are being ripped off, but it's probably more than any of the estimates given in this thread. We have a broken system that has been set up to fail and both Democrats and Republicans are responsible. The Bush Presidents and other RINO Republicans have catered to those who benefit by having illegals swarm into the country and it's incredible that we finally have a President who has tried for nearly 4 years to fix the problem and gets resistance from all quarters.

Well, that's called identity theft. it's not something special that undocumented do. It's a worldwide issue. So it's not any part of the discussion about undocumented getting benefits.
 
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Well, that's called identity theft. it's not something special that undocumented do. It's a worldwide issue. So it's not any part of the discussion about undocumented getting benefits.
O f course it is. The California official told me 7 years ago that this is a common problem in the border states that is overwhelming the system/ And with the million more that have ILLEGALLY crossed the border since then and are undocumented, many of them are, in fact, ripping off American taxpayers by getting benefits to which they aren't entitled. You are such a clueless doofus.
 
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O f course it is. The California official told me 7 years ago that this is a common problem in the border states that is overwhelming the system/ And with the million more that have ILLEGALLY crossed the border since then and are undocumented, many of them are, in fact, ripping off American taxpayers by getting benefits to which they aren't entitled. You are such a clueless doofus.

Lulz.

Do you actually think a large percentage of undocumented are thieves and criminals? Straight out of the Fox playbook, that fallacy.

From the CATO institute: "Most illegal immigrant use of other people’s identities is likely for employment purposes. Rarely does it result in truly awful crimes. Virtually all employment-related identity theft would disappear if illegal immigrants were legalized and future immigrant flows were liberalized because immigrants wouldn’t have to steal identities in order to work. The best solution would be to remove the I-9 requirement entirely and shrink, or separate, the SSN or other government-issued identification requirements for employment authorization. If there is no reason to steal SSNs for employment then nobody will steal them for employment."

Here's the thing. I am a knowledgeable and informed citizen. You are the one with no clue. Try getting your information from those who actually know whats going on, and leave Fox, Rush, and the like, out of your head.

https://www.cato.org/blog/identity-loans-identity-theft-illegal-immigration-regulated-labor-market
 
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Lulz.

Do you actually think a large percentage of undocumented are thieves and criminals? Straight out of the Fox playbook, that fallacy.

From the CATO institute: "Most illegal immigrant use of other people’s identities is likely for employment purposes. Rarely does it result in truly awful crimes. Virtually all employment-related identity theft would disappear if illegal immigrants were legalized and future immigrant flows were liberalized because immigrants wouldn’t have to steal identities in order to work. The best solution would be to remove the I-9 requirement entirely and shrink, or separate, the SSN or other government-issued identification requirements for employment authorization. If there is no reason to steal SSNs for employment then nobody will steal them for employment."

Here's the thing. I am a knowledgeable and informed citizen. You are the one with no clue. Try getting your information from those who actually know whats going on, and leave Fox, Rush, and the like, out of your head.

https://www.cato.org/blog/identity-loans-identity-theft-illegal-immigration-regulated-labor-market

No i dont think undocumented people are all criminals but they did break the law by crossing the border illegally. All we want is for them to cross legally. Why is that so hard to do? Answer. Its not. they would rather not wait in line.
 
Lulz.

Do you actually think a large percentage of undocumented are thieves and criminals? Straight out of the Fox playbook, that fallacy.

From the CATO institute: "Most illegal immigrant use of other people’s identities is likely for employment purposes. Rarely does it result in truly awful crimes. Virtually all employment-related identity theft would disappear if illegal immigrants were legalized and future immigrant flows were liberalized because immigrants wouldn’t have to steal identities in order to work. The best solution would be to remove the I-9 requirement entirely and shrink, or separate, the SSN or other government-issued identification requirements for employment authorization. If there is no reason to steal SSNs for employment then nobody will steal them for employment."

Here's the thing. I am a knowledgeable and informed citizen. You are the one with no clue. Try getting your information from those who actually know whats going on, and leave Fox, Rush, and the like, out of your head.

https://www.cato.org/blog/identity-loans-identity-theft-illegal-immigration-regulated-labor-market
The FACTS are that those who cross our borders illegally are criminals. The very act of crossing our borders illegally make them criminals, ie they have broken the laws of the United States. A country based on laws should not reward criminal behavior, which is what we have been doing for decades and many like you want to further reward them by making them citizens. They need to be sent back where they came from and told to get in line behind those who are trying to come here legally. I am all for legal immigration, as our country is a nation of immigrants. But there have to be limits and qualifications for those who come in, as we should not be further burdening our overloaded welfare systems. We have enough of our own people who need help without piling on anyone and everyone who can sneak into the country. And even when they get jobs many of them are doing so off the books, causing legitimate business to go under because they can't compete with businesses who are paying their illegal employees in cash, not paying worker's comp., not paying income tax or social security. I am very familiar with the construction, agriculture and food service industries, among many others, where companies employing illegals can and do underbid legitimate businesses operating within the law. They can't compete with those spending way less on overhead by having workers off the books or paid in cash and eventually are forced out of business. So just because many illegals have jobs and may be hardworking doesn't mean they are doing things above-board and paying into the system. Some are, some aren't. I know that for an absolute fact. That, also, is a major cost of illegal immigration. Many of those same illegals are stealing the identities of American citizens in order to get in the system and get money and other benefits to which they are not entitled. And to say those rapes of the welfare system and our general economy aren't part of the national cost of illegal immigration is just idiotic. All of those acts cost American taxpayers money. When these illegals send their kids to school, it costs taxpayers millions of dollars in extra teachers, classroom space, facilities, books, computers, food, etc. When they get sick and go to a doctor, the ER, stay in hospitals, have medical procedures, done, etc., it cost American taxpayers money. When they commit crimes that wouldn't have been committed if they weren't here, the cost of law enforcement, the judicial system, the prison system, the increased insurance costs, etc. are all added costs of illegal immigration. We should be mandating and enforcing e-verify laws and punishing employers that hire illegals and we should be taking more effort to identify and deal with every illegal in our country. This has been a major drain on our economy and a part of our increasing debt for decades. Both parties are at fault and the problem is getting worse and worse. But we either are a nation of laws or not. A country without borders isn't a country and cities and states who protect illegals, give them preferential treatment or treat them the same as American citizens are violating the law as well. There should be consequences for that. And rewarding illegal immigrants with citizenship and protecting their "right to work" just doesn't make sense. When you reward bad behavior (in this case criminal behavior), you just encourage more of it. Whether the annual cost of illegal immigration is $300 billion, $250 billion or $116 billion, it is significant and negatively impacts virtually every aspect of our society.
And as for who I listen to or get my information, anywhere besides your CNN & MSNBC talking points would be a step in the positive direction. I have 68 years of life experience, 32 years with a government agency that dealt directly with many of these issues, plus do a lot of reading and studying from a lot of varied sources. Those who rely on the mainstream news, including the far left propaganda machines that are CNN & MSNBC, or the liberal indoctrination institution know as public education, are participating in moving our country into socialism and eventually totalitarianism. But as Ron White said many years ago, "You can't fix stupid!"
 
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Well, that's called identity theft. it's not something special that undocumented do. It's a worldwide issue. So it's not any part of the discussion about undocumented getting benefits.

Attempting to change and control the narrative is another trademark of the Dim-Moe-Rats. :confused:

The TOTAL COST of criminal illegal aliens is NOT just about them illegally getting government benefits. IT'S THE TOTAL COST, STUPID, OF EVERYTHING RELATING TO THEM BEING HERE... o_O

Unpaid hospital costs, education of their kids, police courts and prison costs are among some of the many related costs. o_O
Ignorant and/or stupid is your personal trademark imo. :rolleyes:
 
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The FACTS are that those who cross our borders illegally are criminals. The very act of crossing our borders illegally make them criminals, ie they have broken the laws of the United States. A country based on laws should not reward criminal behavior, which is what we have been doing for decades and many like you want to further reward them by making them citizens. They need to be sent back where they came from and told to get in line behind those who are trying to come here legally. I am all for legal immigration, as our country is a nation of immigrants. But there have to be limits and qualifications for those who come in, as we should not be further burdening our overloaded welfare systems. We have enough of our own people who need help without piling on anyone and everyone who can sneak into the country. And even when they get jobs many of them are doing so off the books, causing legitimate business to go under because they can't compete with businesses who are paying their illegal employees in cash, not paying worker's comp., not paying income tax or social security. I am very familiar with the construction, agriculture and food service industries, among many others, where companies employing illegals can and do underbid legitimate businesses operating within the law. They can't compete with those spending way less on overhead by having workers off the books or paid in cash and eventually are forced out of business. So just because many illegals have jobs and may be hardworking doesn't mean they are doing things above-board and paying into the system. Some are, some aren't. I know that for an absolute fact. That, also, is a major cost of illegal immigration. Many of those same illegals are stealing the identities of American citizens in order to get in the system and get money and other benefits to which they are not entitled. And to say those rapes of the welfare system and our general economy aren't part of the national cost of illegal immigration is just idiotic. All of those acts cost American taxpayers money. When these illegals send their kids to school, it costs taxpayers millions of dollars in extra teachers, classroom space, facilities, books, computers, food, etc. When they get sick and go to a doctor, the ER, stay in hospitals, have medical procedures, done, etc., it cost American taxpayers money. When they commit crimes that wouldn't have been committed if they weren't here, the cost of law enforcement, the judicial system, the prison system, the increased insurance costs, etc. are all added costs of illegal immigration. We should be mandating and enforcing e-verify laws and punishing employers that hire illegals and we should be taking more effort to identify and deal with every illegal in our country. This has been a major drain on our economy and a part of our increasing debt for decades. Both parties are at fault and the problem is getting worse and worse. But we either are a nation of laws or not. A country without borders isn't a country and cities and states who protect illegals, give them preferential treatment or treat them the same as American citizens are violating the law as well. There should be consequences for that. And rewarding illegal immigrants with citizenship and protecting their "right to work" just doesn't make sense. When you reward bad behavior (in this case criminal behavior), you just encourage more of it. Whether the annual cost of illegal immigration is $300 billion, $250 billion or $116 billion, it is significant and negatively impacts virtually every aspect of our society.
And as for who I listen to or get my information, anywhere besides your CNN & MSNBC talking points would be a step in the positive direction. I have 68 years of life experience, 32 years with a government agency that dealt directly with many of these issues, plus do a lot of reading and studying from a lot of varied sources. Those who rely on the mainstream news, including the far left propaganda machines that are CNN & MSNBC, or the liberal indoctrination institution know as public education, are participating in moving our country into socialism and eventually totalitarianism. But as Ron White said many years ago, "You can't fix stupid!"

Too much to attempt a full rebut.

However, the vast majority of schools funding comes from property and sales taxes. Homeowners pay directly, renters pay indirectly through their rent. And everyone pays sales tax. Even illegals. So, so much for being a drain on the public school system.

I just pulled that as an example. The reality is, that immigrants, of all kinds add to our economy a great deal. But those indoctrinated in the lies of conservatism have been trained to only see the negative. I mean really, I had to laugh at your description of the agriculture issues. All those hard working Americans put out of work by illegals. Oh, wait, I seem to recall in 2017, when Trump put the clamps on undocumented, we had crops rotting int he fields BECAUSE THERE WAS NO ONE TO PICK THEM. Americans wouldn't take the available jobs. So, so much for that. Oh, and don't try to tell me about construction. I was the CFO for a home builder in Florida for many years and had to deal with the subs that used illegals, because if they were caught WE GOT FINED. So we worked very hard to make certain none of our subcontractors used illegals. So, so much for that.

There is no one so blind as those who refuse to see. That's you, in case you were wondering.

It's hilarious watching people, like you, who throw out the conservative script of the day like it's your own original thought, then say anybody who disagrees is a CNN/MSNBC robot. Dude, I don't go there. I get my news from a multiplicity of sources, but the difference between us is I am able to analyze what I am getting for content and truth, and you evidently are not. Sad.
 
Too much to attempt a full rebut.

However, the vast majority of schools funding comes from property and sales taxes. Homeowners pay directly, renters pay indirectly through their rent. And everyone pays sales tax. Even illegals. So, so much for being a drain on the public school system.

I just pulled that as an example. The reality is, that immigrants, of all kinds add to our economy a great deal. But those indoctrinated in the lies of conservatism have been trained to only see the negative. I mean really, I had to laugh at your description of the agriculture issues. All those hard working Americans put out of work by illegals. Oh, wait, I seem to recall in 2017, when Trump put the clamps on undocumented, we had crops rotting int he fields BECAUSE THERE WAS NO ONE TO PICK THEM. Americans wouldn't take the available jobs. So, so much for that. Oh, and don't try to tell me about construction. I was the CFO for a home builder in Florida for many years and had to deal with the subs that used illegals, because if they were caught WE GOT FINED. So we worked very hard to make certain none of our subcontractors used illegals. So, so much for that.

There is no one so blind as those who refuse to see. That's you, in case you were wondering.

It's hilarious watching people, like you, who throw out the conservative script of the day like it's your own original thought, then say anybody who disagrees is a CNN/MSNBC robot. Dude, I don't go there. I get my news from a multiplicity of sources, but the difference between us is I am able to analyze what I am getting for content and truth, and you evidently are not. Sad.

You're overstating your point. It's a net drain - NY Times came out and said as much which is where the $300 B net loss comes from. Mainly that's because dispite paying taxes you mentioned they don't pay income tax, which is 1/3 of the federal revenue...that's the big one.

Now you might say they add to the culture so you don't care. You can make that argument - but you aren't arguing more honestly than those you oppose when you ignore the facts yourself.
 
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...-illegal-immigration-cost-america-not-n950981

Here's NBC's fact check on the issue btw. Not exactly the basien of conservative thought and certainly not Fox news, although it's probably helpful to your argument to associate fox with those opposed to you.

NBC's summary is that economists think it's around a $50 B loss - some think it's upwards of $300 Billion. Either way - they aren't paying their fair share no matter how liberal the economist is. They all say the same thing.

And I don't think they are all criminals, at least anymore than we all are by speeding down the highway. But they aren't here legally and can't/don't pay their fair share even according to liberals.

Again you may not care but let's at least not ignore the truth.
 
I see the Hurr Durrs are still going strong

Thousands more dead in the US because a dotard ignorant man gutted protections and ignored professionals

but, hurr durr, he banned that China travel, hurr durr, and only hundreds of thousands got here after that

Hurr durr other nations have more people dying hurr durr

I guess that does make having a hate rally in MARCH and mocking the corona hoax mantra acceptable. And that is just the tip of the iceberg of idiotic nonsense. Enjoy the Gators in 2021

Your magat king helped kill off 2020

Although we may have lost it anyway, just as we would have lost people, just not anywhere close to as many.
 
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...-illegal-immigration-cost-america-not-n950981

Here's NBC's fact check on the issue btw. Not exactly the basien of conservative thought and certainly not Fox news, although it's probably helpful to your argument to associate fox with those opposed to you.

NBC's summary is that economists think it's around a $50 B loss - some think it's upwards of $300 Billion. Either way - they aren't paying their fair share no matter how liberal the economist is. They all say the same thing.

And I don't think they are all criminals, at least anymore than we all are by speeding down the highway. But they aren't here legally and can't/don't pay their fair share even according to liberals.

Again you may not care but let's at least not ignore the truth.

The federal deficit was 984 billion last year, over $3,000 per person on average. For the 10 million undocumented, that would be 30 billion of that 50 billion NBC mentioned. And since they tend to be poor (and wouldn't pay taxes even if citizens), that would easily cover the 50 billion. So it's not really that they aren't pulling their fair share, is it? It's that part of the federal deficit is being attributed to them.
 
The federal deficit was 984 billion last year, over $3,000 per person on average. For the 10 million undocumented, that would be 30 billion of that 50 billion NBC mentioned. And since they tend to be poor (and wouldn't pay taxes even if citizens), that would easily cover the 50 billion. So it's not really that they aren't pulling their fair share, is it? It's that part of the federal deficit is being attributed to them.

That's more fair but if they cost us anything it's an issue to me. This is one of the reason I've for legal, not illegal immigration. It more ensures what our true costs are and enables us to plan accordingly.

The other thing that illegals do is enlarge the pool of labor and lower the wages of those who'd overwise do the work. Even labor unions are against it and I do side with he average worker. I picked fruit growing up in my dad's grove and trust me it sucks. It would suck worse to do this for a living and know you should make more.
 
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The iddy-biddy tiny items that the moronic liberal socialists like to try to ignore when talking criminal illegal invading army alien costs. If your's or the wicked witch of the West's (nancy) daughter was one of the thousands that have been raped or murdered, your benign (deluded) attitude would quickly change I'm betting. -- iG

More than 30% of all federal prisoners are immigrants, DOJ/DHS reports. Notice that's not coming from Fox or OAN, just in case you failed to notice. o_O

The government said it had 57,820 immigrants in its prisons as of Dec. 31, Homeland Security and the Justice Department said in the joint report.
in 2016 and 2017 FY's, the cost of keeping a prisoner in federal jail was $34,704.12.
That's not all of them, just the above 57,820. You do the math, then tell me how that money could have been better spent, or saved against the federal deficit. :rolleyes:

Nearly 20,000 other immigrants were held in pretrial detention by the U.S. Marshals Service, most of them in contracted facilities, costing the government $134 million for just three months. That works out to nearly $90 a day for each person in those contract facilities.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions said there shouldn’t be any illegal immigrants in prisons, because they shouldn’t have been in the country in the first place. -- well duh! :confused:
So 5 Billion for a Southern Border Wall to end the ongoing and future costs sounds like a hellofadeal to me. :oops:

But it's not just the huge monetary costs of this chit 'open border' policy.

“Every crime committed by an illegal alien is, by definition, a crime that should have been prevented,” he said in releasing the report. “It is outrageous that tens of thousands of Americans are dying every year because of the drugs and violence brought over our borders illegally and that taxpayers have been forced, year after year, to pay billions of dollars to incarcerate tens of thousands of illegal aliens.” :mad:

Outside the prisons, the U.S. Marshals Service also held 19,688 confirmed immigrants as of Dec. 31, and another 3,022 whose status was still being investigated. (at what additional costs to taxpayers?) :cool:

Trump wins in a landslide.
BTW, senile sleepy Joe is the perfect representative of what a Dizzy Lizzy stands for.. :rolleyes:
 
That's more fair but if they cost us anything it's an issue to me. This is one of the reason I've for legal, not illegal immigration. It more ensures what our true costs are and enables us to plan accordingly.

The other thing that illegals do is enlarge the pool of labor and lower the wages of those who'd overwise do the work. Even labor unions are against it and I do side with he average worker. I picked fruit growing up in my dad's grove and trust me it sucks. It would suck worse to do this for a living and know you should make more.

I don't think anybody is "for" illegal immigration, in the sense of "oh boy, let's have lots more illegal immigration". If no no other reason than it's chaotic. It's much better to have an orderly influx.

This is not to say that there aren't people who think our posture toward Latin America is too restrictive, or too harsh, or too long a process to get in, or too low of a quota, or too whatever. But that's a desire to change the legal structure of immigration, which is a very different thing from cheering on illegals. No, the bone of contention is what to do with them now that they are here. It's clear that not allowing them to work hasn't been effective, because they are still here and, since they can't work, they are feeding their families any way they can. So now the complaint is they are a drain on the system. SO LET THEM WORK. Hell, REQUIRE THEM TO WORK. We require Americans on welfare to get jobs, why do we have undocumented receiving assistance but not being allowed to work? It makes no sense.
 
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