What was FSU ex QB DeAndre Johnson doing in a gay bar when he hit that woman

[BayAreaGator]

If "she" were a "he" would you feel the same?

I also stated before that if he would have walked away or even grabbed her arms and not busted her face, she probably would have been arrested and prosecuted for Battery.

But, I promise you that most prosecuting agencies will not prosecute a female who pushes or "punches" a man first if the man responded by busting her face. Rightfully so imo.

This thread has made it clear that there are people who see it another way. They see it as black and white. "She swung on him first! Arrest her!" Circumstances be damned.

 

[danoleman]

Ok so what's the point?? If it's your post above then you are wrong. The law isn't sexist. Assault is assault and battery is battery. No matter if you are Tom, Susan or Caitlyn Jenner.

 

[PacoGator19]

Yes he really believes all 2,000 of those signatures and comments are from a bot!

 

[danoleman]

Yes he really believes all 2,000 of those signatures and comments are from a bot!

Show me where I said they all come from a bot. I said it's possible. And yes it is possible. Even the comments

 

[alaskanseminole]

you want to play the hypothetical game as opposed to dealing with the actual facts of this incident and I know why. Dealing with the actual facts is a loser for you.

Huh?

I've dealt with and addressed every single fact revolving around this situation. I've even broken down each event that occurred within the 1st 23 seconds of the video.

FACT RECAP:

- About 5 seconds in, the woman appears and makes her way to the bar.
- At 7 seconds she turns her head backwards toward Johnson and says something to him (He claims she shouted "get off me F***'n N***!"). It appears he's being pushed into her by the crowd off camera behind him.
- At 14 seconds he places his right hand under the edge of the bar and appears to be pulling himself towards it. The woman again turns toward him and says something.
- At 16 seconds she completely turns around pushing her left leg to pull him off the bar followed by her left arm (up under his chin and onto his chest) to push him backward while simultaneously balling up her fist.
- At 18 seconds Johnson grabs her fist and pulls it down (thus preventing her from striking him)
- At 20 seconds she knees him.
- At 21 seconds she punches him.
- At 23 seconds he punches her back and walks away.
- The entire event took place over a 23 second period.

The only thing in speculation (aka: not fact) is what she is claimed to have said to him at the onset.

If "she" were a "he" then it's very likely that the swing "he" took would have created a self defense situation.... making Johnson's punch back REASONABLE and causing "he" to be arrested for Battery.

Whether you all like it or not, the physical abilities (and thereby gender) of the people involved are factors that go towards determining reasonableness. Take it up with the legislature if you don't like it.

So you admit his actions were only un-REASONABLE because it was a woman. Show me where the law states that a man cannot strike a woman, but a woman can strike a man. We're not discussing chivalry, my reptilian friend, we're discussing the law. Oozie, dan, and I have been making that VERY clear. Take out the emotion of how a "man" should treat a woman and look at the situation genderlessly.

Our argument is NOT whether he should or should not have hit a woman.

 

[Scalp'em Nole]

Heres a chic who wanted to throw punches like a guy

 

[TennesseeGator]

I will not get into the argument of should man hit woman, Gator vs Nole, etc.

I'm still laughing at Igloo for having that many or searching that many pictures of shirtless men.

You proved the point of Noles loving shirtless men.

Tebow fetish much?

 

[Nolez29]

View embedded media

Heres a chic who wanted to throw punches like a guy

That was fun to watch.

 

[PacoGator19]

Why is it mostly Nole fans that want this woman charged, or punished in some way? If that happened, would it mean that Johnson might not have been kicked off the team? Would it mean he would not have been charged? Would it be less embarrassing for FSU?

Not sure I understand the motivation.

Like I wrote earlier, if I were on jury where Johnson was charged, I would vote to convict based solely on that video. And if the woman was charged with assault of some kind, I would not vote to convict her, again based on that video.

You can say she acted boorishly, but that is not a crime.

Good questions, bottom line is what difference does it make if she is charged, what does it accomplish, does it make their prized football player any less guilty? Is she less of an FSU student than De'Andre? I think it's just a backhanded way of justifying Johnson's actions.
In summary, it's 2 FSU students punching each other in a bar, acting like dumb asses

 

[alaskanseminole]

In summary, it's 2 FSU students punching each other in a bar, acting like dumb asses

Pretty spot on. At least your contention isn't that she's some helpless, innocent victim. In fact, I like your summation much better; two students (love the ambiguity here) duke'n it out like morons.

 

[danoleman]

Good questions, bottom line is what difference does it make if she is charged, what does it accomplish, does it make their prized football player any less guilty? Is she less of an FSU student than De'Andre? I think it's just a backhanded way of justifying Johnson's actions.
In summary, it's 2 FSU students punching each other in a bar, acting like dumb asses

So us saying she should be charged is a backhanded way of justifying his actions?? So what does it say about you when you typed this earlier in this thread??

"On this I agree with you, based on what I saw in the video, the woman should be charged as well"


Can you answer this Paco??

 

[gatorRAD]

Remember the days when Dads we're proud of little Jane for dating the QB.....

 

[BayAreaGator]

So you admit his actions were only un-REASONABLE because it was a woman.

YES!

I've tried for 3 days to explain that to you! The problem is you think it's trivial. Florida law, not ME, says its not.

Amidst all your tireless rambling on this topic, have you once bothered to review the Florida Battery and Self Defense law? Rhetorical question

 

[BayAreaGator]

Show me where the law states that a man cannot strike a woman, but a woman can strike a man. We're not discussing chivalry, my reptilian friend, we're discussing the law. Oozie, dan, and I have been making that VERY clear. Take out the emotion of how a "man" should treat a woman and look at the situation genderlessly.

Our argument is NOT whether he should or should not have hit a woman.

As for why SHE was NOT charged in this situation, scroll up. I have already explained multiple times why I believe she wasn't and my opinion on it.

I get it though....You want every woman who touches the man first to be arrested regardless of the circumstances. I'm telling you it doesn't work that way. It never has worked that way. Get used to it. It's good public policy. IMO

 

[Nolez29]

he's gone & she deservedly got popped.

Thread should be over right here.

 

[alaskanseminole]

I

As for why SHE was NOT charged in this situation, scroll up. I have already explained multiple times why I believe she wasn't and my opinion on it.

I get it though....You want every woman who touches the man first to be arrested regardless of the circumstances. I'm telling you it doesn't work that way. It never has worked that way. Get used to it. It's good public policy. IMO

I didn't realize I said "every woman". I said equal treatment for equal situations (assuming if the ONLY difference in the situation is the sex of the individual). If you didn't agree that "she" should have been charged if "she" were a "he", we wouldn't be having this conversation, but you do. That's sexist IMO.

Here's how the situation should be looked at in the eyes of the law (IMO):

"person" bumps "person". "person" turns and says something. "Person" bumps "person" again. "Person" turns (and allegedly shouts racial slur), physically pushes "person" backwards while simultaneously balling up fist in a threatening manner. Threatened "person" doesn't want to get hit and grabs aggressor's arm. Aggressor then knees other person's groin and punches "person." "Person" who was hit strikes back. The end.

I witnessed something similar at an intersection. A man pulled out of a gas station hurriedly across two lanes to get into a turn lane and cut a woman off in the process. We all wound up in the same turn lane with the woman in front of me and he in front of her. She kept honking her horn and shaking her fists. He didn't move. Finally, she got out and approached his window SCREAMING at him...calling him every name in the book. She eventually smacked him through his window and he just rolled it up until the light turned. He did the "right" thing by not getting out of his car. Had this been a man, I'd venture to say, there'd have been a pretty big physical altercation that day.

Oozie asked it best, "The point I'm trying to make is, at what point is a man allowed to defend himself from a woman? Does he need to be punched 5 times? 10 times? 20 times? Sure he could have walked away, but if that was a man NOBODY would have that expectation and everyone would be fine with him defending himself."

Oh, and for what it's worth, we're speaking conceptually, not literally. In other words, why IS society like this and why can't it be changed?

Under current perceptions/expectations/chivalry standards, I'm fine with DJ's consequences (and have stated it multiple times). Hell, I wasn't going to even bring it up on here (knowing folks would be intellectually dishonest due to it being a Nole involved), until Oozie brought it up first.

Oozie (pg 1): "Am I the only one that thinks she should be charged too? She was the aggressor first balling up her fist at the guy and kneed him in the midsection. But I guess that ain't PC enough."

Why can't the question above be discussed rationally (under MJ's suggestion of moving it to the Lounge) without it becoming another Gator vs. Nole debate (people bringing up irrelevant Jameis points, etc)? Again, YES, YES, YES, men shouldn't go around punching and otherwise abusing women. That isn't what is being discussed...people forget that every single person in this thread supports DJ's consequences.

 

[Tuscan Gator]

I

I didn't realize I said "every woman". I said equal treatment for equal situations (assuming if the ONLY difference in the situation is the sex of the individual). If you didn't agree that "she" should have been charged if "she" were a "he", we wouldn't be having this conversation, but you do. That's sexist IMO.

Here's how the situation should be looked at in the eyes of the law (IMO):

"person" bumps "person". "person" turns and says something. "Person" bumps "person" again. "Person" turns (and allegedly shouts racial slur), physically pushes "person" backwards while simultaneously balling up fist in a threatening manner. Threatened "person" doesn't want to get hit and grabs aggressor's arm. Aggressor then knees other person's groin and punches "person." "Person" who was hit strikes back. The end.

I witnessed something similar at an intersection. A man pulled out of a gas station hurriedly across two lanes to get into a turn lane and cut a woman off in the process. We all wound up in the same turn lane with the woman in front of me and he in front of her. She kept honking her horn and shaking her fists. He didn't move. Finally, she got out and approached his window SCREAMING at him...calling him every name in the book. She eventually smacked him through his window and he just rolled it up until the light turned. He did the "right" thing by not getting out of his car. Had this been a man, I'd venture to say, there'd have been a pretty big physical altercation that day.

Oozie asked it best, "The point I'm trying to make is, at what point is a man allowed to defend himself from a woman? Does he need to be punched 5 times? 10 times? 20 times? Sure he could have walked away, but if that was a man NOBODY would have that expectation and everyone would be fine with him defending himself."

Oh, and for what it's worth, we're speaking conceptually, not literally. In other words, why IS society like this and why can't it be changed?

Under current perceptions/expectations/chivalry standards, I'm fine with DJ's consequences (and have stated it multiple times). Hell, I wasn't going to even bring it up on here (knowing folks would be intellectually dishonest due to it being a Nole involved), until Oozie brought it up first.

Oozie (pg 1): "Am I the only one that thinks she should be charged too? She was the aggressor first balling up her fist at the guy and kneed him in the midsection. But I guess that ain't PC enough."

Why can't the question above be discussed rationally (under MJ's suggestion of moving it to the Lounge) without it becoming another Gator vs. Nole debate (people bringing up irrelevant Jameis points, etc)?

STFU douchebag. You and oozie are simply embarrassing yourselves.

 

[oozie7]

Now?

It's been the premise of the entire thread.

Gators (minus oozie): Big mean FSU player punches woman for no reason, gets charged and booted from the football team...there's video evidence that clearly shows him grabbing her first and punching her! She's a woman, therefore there is no way she could have done anything wrong. ...oh and why did it take 11 whole days to get rid of this threat to society?

Noles: The FSU player was allegedly verbally assaulted, pushed backwards, kneed in the nads, and punched in the face before striking the woman. We all agree he should have still found restraint and walked away, but sadly he didn't and is now paying the price by losing his position on the team and being charged with a misdemeanor. Noles agree with FSU's decision to have him removed from the team because punching a woman is unacceptable even under these circumstances. Lingering question is, why wasn't the other person, who actually started the altercation, given equal punishment?

Correct. I still can't fathom how so many supposedly smart people can't grasp what has been argued. But as the recent posts have been made clear, more than a few posters are fine with there being a double standard under the law for women. All I gotta say is...I hope none ever punch you in the face. I'm sure you'll feel the same way then.

 

[oozie7]

STFU douchebag. You and oozie are simply embarrassing yourselves.

STFU douchebag. You and oozie are simply embarrassing yourselves.

Yes, the adult who can't make a coherent argument and is calling everyone a douchebag is clearly the one not embarrassing himself. Take a seat old man.

 

[PacoGator19]

Now over 3,000 bots have signed the petition! LOL! To be honest I'm not surprised at all by the response of many FSU fans defending this kids actions and wanting him back on the team.

 

[mcanes]

Now over 3,000 bots have signed the petition! LOL! To be honest I'm not surprised at all by the response of many FSU fans defending this kids actions and wanting him back on the team.

Typical f$u...sad and pathetic.

GO Canes!

 

[danoleman]

Now over 3,000 bots have signed the petition! LOL! To be honest I'm not surprised at all by the response of many FSU fans defending this kids actions and wanting him back on the team.

Lol @ 3000 bots. Didn't I tell you it only takes one?? You sure you didn't start that petition?? You sure are very interested in it. Did ya sign it Paco??

 

[danoleman]

Typical f$u...sad and pathetic.

GO Canes!

Typical scUM...sad and pathetic


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ate-17-drunk-repeatedly-raping-dorm-room.html

 

[PacoGator19]

Lol @ 3000 bots. Didn't I tell you it only takes one?? You sure you didn't start that petition?? You sure are very interested in it. Did ya sign it Paco??

You know as well as I do that worst case over 50% of those people/signatures are real people. Again not surprised by the overwhelming response of FSU fans that think Johnson did no wrong.

 

[danoleman]

You know as well as I do that worst case over 50% of those people/signatures are real people. Again not surprised by the overwhelming response of FSU fans that think Johnson did no wrong.

Overwhelming response?? You call 3,000 signatures an overwhelming response?? Come on man.

 

[SwampMaster]

If this incident would have occurred with a 10 year old girl, there would still be Noles on here arguing that she started it.

 

[SwampMaster]

Overwhelming response?? You call 3,000 signatures an overwhelming response?? Come on man.

That's probably half the fan base.

 

[Buddy Green]

This "bots" nonsense is almost as comical as Danny Kannell hypothesizing that Winston was likely "tricked" by a 10-year old kid into signing hundreds of autographs for a memorabilia broker.

They always have an explanation for everything. Everyone's out to get them. Like in 1993, when "jealous Miami fans" fabricated agent contracts for FSU players or how every game they lost between 1987 and 1995 was a "screw job by the refs". Gotta love 'em.

 

[Scalp'em Nole]

Typical scUM...sad and pathetic


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ate-17-drunk-repeatedly-raping-dorm-room.html

Not surprised.

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

3K signatures probably represents less than 1% of FSU fans, including casual fans. I think there were more signatures after FSU changed their logo, last year.

 

[mcanes]

This "bots" nonsense is almost as comical as Danny Kannell hypothesizing that Winston was likely "tricked" by a 10-year old kid into signing hundreds of autographs for a memorabilia broker.

They always have an explanation for everything. Everyone's out to get them. Like in 1993, when "jealous Miami fans" fabricated agent contracts for FSU players or how every game they lost between 1987 and 1995 was a "screw job by the refs". Gotta love 'em.

Go figure the guy that brought up the bots nonsense is a guy that does nothing but update passwords for nurses.

Yep, the nolies always defending, deflecting and making up excuses...its never there fault.

GO Canes!

 

[BayAreaGator]

Correct. I still can't fathom how so many supposedly smart people can't grasp what has been argued. But as the recent posts have been made clear, more than a few posters are fine with there being a double standard under the law for women. All I gotta say is...I hope none ever punch you in the face. I'm sure you'll feel the same way then.

I have explained the law and my opinion numerous times. You don't have to agree with it but "Smart guy," the people doing this for a living, making criminal and prosecutorial decisions, overwhelmingly disagree with you. Grasp that.

 

[danoleman]

Go figure the guy that brought up the bots nonsense is a guy that does nothing but update passwords for nurses.

Yep, the nolies always defending, deflecting and making up excuses...its never there fault.

GO Canes!

Nope, the call center help desk updates the passwords. Lol

 

[danoleman]

This "bots" nonsense is almost as comical as Danny Kannell hypothesizing that Winston was likely "tricked" by a 10-year old kid into signing hundreds of autographs for a memorabilia broker.
.

That autograph story ended up being a scam. The memorabilia dealers tried to sell a bunch of forged Winston autographs. I bet you believed the point shaving story too, didn't you Buddy??

 

[2blades]

FSwho players are getting used to what The Gators are going to do to them this year.

 

[gatorjmdz]

okay, folks, oozie has a point regarding the double standard. If this was a man, there is no discussion and Johnson is still a QB competing for a starting role on the FSU offense.

As for the video itself, let's break it down objectively.

- About 5 seconds in, the woman appears and makes her way to the bar.
- At 7 seconds she turns her head backwards towardo Johnson and says something to him. It appears he's being pushed into her by the crowd off camera behind him.
- At 14 seconds he places his right hand under the edge of the bar and appears to be pulling himself towards it. The woman again turns toward him and says something.
- At 16 seconds she completely turns around and balls up her fist.
- At 18 seconds Johnson grabs her fist and pulls it down (thus preventing her from striking him)
- At 20 seconds she knees him.
- At 21 seconds she punches him.
- At 23 seconds he punches her back and walks away.
- The entire event took place over a 23 second period at a bar.

We have no idea what verbal exchanges took place, but everyone is pretty quick to judge what they would and would not have done.

Could he have walked away at 21 seconds? Certainly. Oozie's point is, does he have to just because she's a woman.

EDIT: Looks like Dan summed it up the same time I was.

Wrong. Take a look at the "balled up fist" in the video, not these low res pictures. She has her thumb pointing backwards as he is she's pointing or telling him to get out of there. At that point he grabs her right forearm and that is a battery as defined by statute. He continues to hold her arm and she then clearly has a right to use reasonable force to terminate that battery. His punch was clearly in retaliation and that is not self defense....he battered her twice.

 

[BayAreaGator]

Wrong. Take a look at the "balled up fist" in the video, not these low res pictures. She has her thumb pointing backwards as he is she's pointing or telling him to get out of there. At that point he grabs her right forearm and that is a battery as defined by statute. He continues to hold her arm and she then clearly has a right to use reasonable force to terminate that battery. His punch was clearly in retaliation and that is not self defense....he battered her twice.

Good luck

 

[oozie7]

I have explained the law and my opinion numerous times. You don't have to agree with it but "Smart guy," the people doing this for a living, making criminal and prosecutorial decisions, overwhelmingly disagree with you. Grasp that.

Nuance matters. Why do you think that is? Or are we all just going to make blanket declarations and keep spinning like a top?

And I don't know what you want me to 'grasp' anyway. I've made it clear from page 1 that he shouldn't have punched the chick, but I'm not shedding any tears for her either. There's a double standard under the law and you've already stated you agree that there's a double standard and you then when on to state why you think that is. The presence of a double standard was my entire freaking point, so we don't need to go any further. You agree with my position, thanks.

 

[SKSnole]

I have explained the law and my opinion numerous times. You don't have to agree with it but "Smart guy," the people doing this for a living, making criminal and prosecutorial decisions, overwhelmingly disagree with you. Grasp that.

Ahh, the ol' "might makes right" argument. These gynocentric laws are put in place to appease extreme feminists that are all in favor of protecting women and damning men. Law professors like Elizabeth Sheehy want laws passed that make it legal for a woman to murder a man in his sleep (No, I'm not making this up). And men seem happy to cheer themselves right off a cliff.

 

[oozie7]

He still doesn't understand that the WHY doesn't matter, which is the funny part. He's already agreed that there is a double standard, which was the entire freaking point of the posts I've made, the why doesn't matter. The issue is whether there SHOULD be or not. But apparently more than a few individuals are willing to excuse the actions of an adult based on what's between their legs, and they think people who disagree are the crazy ones. LOL.