Why would anyone who is healthy and can handle the virus put an untested vaccine in them is beyond me. We have treatments for this man made virus. Makes no sense to me but do what u feel is best for u.
Two children in Mississippi on ventilators with Delta variant of Covid.
- Thread starter gator1776
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Risks of vaccine is minimal. (No one says ‘completely’ safe) Benefits of vaccine = protect self, protect your family, protect the community. The more people vaccinated would likely reduce the chances of variant strains emerging.
In your medical opinion this statement is unquestionable and unassailable...despite the fact that the medical trial isn't over yet?
In the history of medicine has there ever been a treatment where so many doctors were willing to say something so unproven so unequivocally?
If no, and obviously the answer to my question is no, why is that? How is this occurring? What is allowing so many learned men and women to say things like this that they cannot possibly prove?
IMO, that is the scariest thing about this vaccine and the virus itself. Fact has become a victim.
Actually u don’t know the risk of vaccine are minimal. Either do the current medical professionals. It’s been around for how long ? A little over a year. also, benefits are wrong, protection of self ( u can still get the virus and u once again don’t know of long term affects of it ) , protecting of family and community? Lol. How so? All can still get it n yet u took a vaccine that u know nothing of long term affects on u, ur family, n community. Also, the more vaccinated doesn’t reduce the chances of a variant strains emerging. Lol. Sounding like cnn there. So take if u want to but do put bs out that u need to take it for ur family or community. That’s bs pressure. The side effects from taking the virus are likely way more severe than the virus itself to an adult or kid who isn’t high risk. The risk reward calculation simply makes no sense.
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And if there comes a time when my covid antibodies are as weak as yours, I'll consider it. Until then, vaccinating would be virtue signaling theater.
COVID-19 survivors may possess wide-ranging resistance to the disease | Emory University | Atlanta GA
Recovered COVID-19 patients retain broad and effective longer-term immunity to the disease, suggests a recent Emory University study, which is the most comprehensive of its kind so far. The findings have implications for expanding understanding about human immune memory as well as future vaccine...
news.emory.edu
Masks for the vaccinated or, to your point, those who have sufficient anti-bodies, is pure virtue signaling theater. I am with you.
Vaccines are different. they work - exceptionally well.
Cases are on the rise in Bama, Florida (I am a very significant DeSantis fan) and Texas. Why? lack of Vaccination. If the case prevalence was so high before with natural immunity, then we wouldn't see cases, but more importantly hospitalizations and deaths go up.
If you had Covid-19 before and a high level of residual anti-bodies, very good. I have not read all of the evidence, but I saw a similar study from the Cleveland Clinic.
Listen, I am not going to change your mind. You are part of the hardened "anti-vaxxer" crowd who has legitimate (and depending on the person, way off) issues with the government right now.
My view here has been pretty simple and I will bet a lot of it aligns with yours.
- The Lab Leaked from China (I believe it was accidental, but that will be impossible to prove)
- China hid it
- Fauci and EcoHealth alliance had a vested interest in promoting natural transmission
- The MSM supported this narrative
- Taken together, had the public known that this came through a gain of function study, the reaction would have been a patriotic reaction versus one of internal strife. in other words, people would have been much more like to have worn masks (which were effective, to an extent, against the less virulent viruses). Trump supporters would have had, far earlier, plastered the 73M+ faces with "Trump 2020" thus doing the most effective thing at the time (masks and social distancing) while having constant advertising
- The CDC screwed up the initial test
- Cuomo killed thousands by re-entering sick patients into nursing homes. The current DOJ just handed him a political gift.
- Alex Azar and Trump launched Operation Warp Speed which ultimately helped deliver these miracle vaccines in record time.
- We spent Trillions to keep business and people afloat. The last tranche was a waste of money that has helped cause inflation.
- The initial vaccine hesitancy came from people like Kamala Harris and Gov. Cuomo who wanted to have it separately tested for efficacy. (so much for following the science)
- Trump, consumed with the election results and January 6th and also taken off of social media, faded into the background instead of taking a major victory lap with these vaccines.
- The Biden administration partnering with governors (R and D) and the Pfizer/Moderna rolled out the vaccine in mostly excellent fashion. By late April, anyone who wanted a vaccine could get one.
- Cases, Hospitalizations and Deaths dropped like a rock due to Vaccination and prior immunity (your example)
- Negative reactions and breakthrough reactions have been almost non-existent.
- There may be long term effects. We won't know that for decades.
- The Delta variant has spread, and as it (per the above) most likely came from gain of function, each new variant is exceptionally virulent.
- The cases, hospitalizations and deaths are spiking among the unvaccinated
- If herd immunity was so strong, the above would not be seen.
- The Unvaccinated are not a monolithic cohort. They include, for example, black americans who saw what happened with the Tuskegee Institute and Trump Voters (mostly likely you are one of them) who are opposed to any sort of government mandates and given the above are reluctant.
- New mask mandates are virtue signaling as, per Scott Gottlieb (hardly a OAN news host), the delta variant is far too effective against a sub-N95 mask
- Kids are rarely impacted by this and should never have been pulled out of schools. They were pulled out as a gift to the teachers unions.
- Biden's abdication at the border is only exacerbating cases in Texas
So, to summarize, the best evidence I have seen is:
1. It came from a Lab in China via gain of function research
2. American ingenuity, again, produced the most innovative and impactful vaccine
3. The vaccines work and the data around the world shows they are safe
4. Long term effects are unknown. Removing the EUA will help, but we won't know what impacts there are, if any, for decades.
The action then: go get your vaccine, be reasonable nd let's get this damn thing behind us. Then get the Republicans to re-takeover at least the Senate if not both the Senate and the House. In 2024, DeSantis and Scott in the white house.
U ever think the cases are on the raise cause all the ppl from Blue states moving to Florida, Texas, n bama ? Plus, notice how the death toll isn’t being talked about ? Cause it’s not an issue. Yes, ppl will get it just like a cold and they will get over it or get treated if needed. If ur high risk and feel the vaccine is good for u. Cool. Take it. No one is telling u that u can’t have it or not to take it. But ppl have no right to push, pressure, or mandate ppl to take it. And vaccine cards!! Come on man! We all know how that looks and sounds so stop hiding behind it’s good for everyone’s health bs. btw- this China made virus won’t ever be behind us. Just like the flu.
Question. If you were going to choose one of the three vaccines jj, moderna, pfizer, which would you choose? Thing to consider. Wife has von willebrand
@gator1776
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Mostly agree...but I'm absolutely not anti-vax, not even anti-covid vax....like at all. I think the development of this vaccination is a testament to American ingenuity and science.
I've grown to be ALMOST entirely unconcerned about the short to possibly even near term side effects. I am still quite concerned about the long term effects, however.
Several studies have shown that natural antibodies tend to be stronger, more broad and longer lasting than vaccine antibodies. I posted one from Emory last night that is the most comprehensive yet.
Again, I've never claimed that the vaccine doesn't work. I'm merely saying that natural antibodies do too and according to a great deal of research, they work better and have a wider "band" of coverage due to their nature as compared to the vaccine.
Here's the Emory release...
COVID-19 survivors may possess wide-ranging resistance to the disease | Emory University | Atlanta GA
Recovered COVID-19 patients retain broad and effective longer-term immunity to the disease, suggests a recent Emory University study, which is the most comprehensive of its kind so far. The findings have implications for expanding understanding about human immune memory as well as future vaccine...
news.emory.edu
Masks and vaccines are not necessary, any more than they are for the seasonal flu.
The death rate with early (1st week of symptoms) use of the HCQ Cocktail is way less than 1%.
Masks (5-7 micorn protection) don't stop a virus (2-4 microns), but they are good for blocking bacteria.
None of the vaccines are guaranteed to prevent getting the virus, either initially or re-infections.
I'm in the so-called 'high risk' category, over 70 with a heart condition.
I haven't taken any ful vaccines since the 1970's, and I've not had the flu since then either...
I won't be taking any of the intentionally released Communist Chinese Bio-weapon Kung Flu vaccines.
If I get it, I'll take the proven cure instead, HCQ Cocktail.
If I die anyway, no big deal. I never thought that I was going to live forever anyway.....
As it should be, I and others are free to choose for themselves how they will approach life, in all of it's variations. (unless the traitorous socialist dictators continue and succeed with their disbanding of American freedoms)
The death rate with early (1st week of symptoms) use of the HCQ Cocktail is way less than 1%.
Masks (5-7 micorn protection) don't stop a virus (2-4 microns), but they are good for blocking bacteria.
None of the vaccines are guaranteed to prevent getting the virus, either initially or re-infections.
I'm in the so-called 'high risk' category, over 70 with a heart condition.
I haven't taken any ful vaccines since the 1970's, and I've not had the flu since then either...
I won't be taking any of the intentionally released Communist Chinese Bio-weapon Kung Flu vaccines.
If I get it, I'll take the proven cure instead, HCQ Cocktail.
If I die anyway, no big deal. I never thought that I was going to live forever anyway.....
As it should be, I and others are free to choose for themselves how they will approach life, in all of it's variations. (unless the traitorous socialist dictators continue and succeed with their disbanding of American freedoms)
Well you didn’t ask me but yeah I would agree that the risk or minimum. The trials actually are complete they’re not doing any other trials other than some longitudinal studies long-term but they don’t really do much else in the way of trials on vaccines other than what they’ve already done. It just takes forever to get FDA approval for a damn thing. Nothing is ever completely safe but the vaccine is a lot safer in the Covid itself and that is indisputable based off of the research and is it cystic’s and I do feel confident in that.
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Good question, I took the Pfizer vaccine but I don’t have a good answer for that so I’d have to look it up. I’ll see if I can find some reputable sources on that.
I would absolutely agree that we believe that it is safe based on what we know so far. But, as you alluded to, the trials are not over yet...and comparatively this one isn't taking very long and will finish much sooner than most (if not all???)
Watching for possible issues longER term is the hold up now and that seems reasonable. Notice I said longer, not long.
That means determining the actual safety of this vaccine in the immediate, definitively, is a lot like solving calculus without having access to many of the variables.
We can absolutely say that we believe it is safe but IMO determining that it's safe at this point is reckless. Gun to my head, I believe that it is. Still, with all due respect, a measured approach by weighing all options and risk is the smart play...just like it is everywhere else in medicine.
Yeah no actually the trails are over. They don’t really do long term trials they just do longitudinal follow up. For what it’s worth.
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I was referring to longitudinal follow up if I'm not mistaken. Meaning they follow up with those that are already in the trial.
I believe that we are saying the same thing but using different words. Probably my bad as I'm not in the field and don't know all of the proper verbiage.
Yeah I think we are saying the same thing but it’s very unlikely they’re going to find anything bad even in the long term follow up. But she’s Gotta make the best judgment for you. But we’re up to over 75 Covid patients in the hospital again and two months ago we had zero.
As long as I have covid antibodies, I'm good. If and when I do not, I will adjust.
That’s all well and good, maybe natural antibodies are better than those from vaccine. But how do we get herd immunity with natural antibodies? Everyone must get infected. We saw how that was going before the vaccines. The vaccines give the best and fastest way to spread immunity and reduce deaths from Covid.
My opinion, Pfizer and Moderna seem the safer of the three. I’ve seen a few more side effects from the Moderna but none serious. I would avoid the J and J vaccine just because of some reports of serious side effects.
Actually ur wrong. We didn’t see the natural way before the vaccine. U have the sheep pushing masks that didn’t work and I also affected everyone’s health who had them on. Sure, high risk ppl wear them. Healthy ppl didn’t need to. Only main reason for the death toll way in the beginning not knowing how to treat it and the media n the left making it political when a treatment was reported. The media and the left refused the science on it. Funny how that works.
No way would I take an untested vaccine for a China made virus. U can though.
I did not mention masking. Vaccines work by providing rapid immunity without allowing death and disability due to waiting for natural immunity. I still say you benefit the community by getting vaccinated. But then I think you were the one who said you do not care about the community.Actually ur wrong. We didn’t see the natural way before the vaccine. U have the sheep pushing masks that didn’t work and I also affected everyone’s health who had them on. Sure, high risk ppl wear them. Healthy ppl didn’t need to. Only main reason for the death toll way in the beginning not knowing how to treat it and the media n the left making it political when a treatment was reported. The media and the left refused the science on it. Funny how that works.
No way would I take an untested vaccine for a China made virus. U can though.
Sure - for me, I took Pfizer. I have seen no marked difference between Moderna and Pfizer. Pfizer will have more R&D monies given it's sheer size and can better test and deliver things like booster shots. My intuition is that you can mix the two, but that is not based on any science and I am not a virologist or other qualified expert.
I would avoid the JNJ vaccine at this point.
I think we will need to look at Boosters which I will happily take. I just don't want to be forced to wear a mask again, unless I am in crowded subway system in NYC where I will wear it to just avoid other airborne pathogens.
At the risk of re-initiating my rant, I am appalled at the re-instatement of masks for K-12 kids. It's a clear bow to pressure from the health and education communities. I am for making it mandatory or doing daily testing.
To another point, yes, it could lead to further government intrusion which I do indeed worry about. My view here is that we have a Chinese PRC based leak of a very virulent strain that has already killed 650K people.
Very good post and correction of my note. Good article from Emory. That comports with the Cleveland Clinic report.
If we do mandate vaccines, what I do think we should do is allow either: a) vaccines or b) submit an antibody test. If C19 generated enough natural immunity, that is a knowable thing and should be submitted.
Thank you for the reasonable exchange here.
Interesting. My own (albeit very small) sample size of folks I have spoken with….i have heard no complaints on either pfizer or jj. Have had multiple people tell me to stay away from moderna (either made them very sick or rashes). Admittedly not very scientific.
My biggest concern is my wife who has a blood disorder, and is currently waiting on a rheumatologist appointment for further testing
That is a reasonable approach. Get the facts and especially as your wife has an underlying condition, speak with her physician and appropriate specialists.
Best of luck.
Best of luck.
U didn’t I did. Lol. U said what was done before vaccines. They don’t provide immunity. Plenty of examples for u to see that. So ur claiming a high risk person who is vaccinated will not die of the virus? Lol. Ok. A healthy none high risk person doesn’t need the vaccine n will survive the virus. U will have a small percentage who don’t and we will always have that small percentage that is unexplainable. Benefit the community? Lol. How so ? If they want to get vaccinated why should I if I’m comfortable without it? U just mentioned that vaccinated ppl have immunity. Lol. No I actually don’t care for the community to affect my health. Me 1st. Does the community pay my bills? Nope Does the community provide for me in anyway ? Nope. Does the community have the right over my health choices ? Nope. Just like u can’t stop a fat ass from going to a fast food place but yet they do and we have crazy obesity deaths every year.
Five Choices:
1. Vaccine #1
2. Vaccine #2
3. Vaccine #3
4. Nothing, rolling the dice, depending on your own natural immune system.
5. HCQ Cocktain early, IF you're ever infected.
Since there is no bad vaccine danger, short or long term with my HCQ choice, that's where I'm at. And since the HCQ cure rate is so high if used early (1st week of symptoms), that's the safest way for me to go. Others are free to chose for themselves, just as I am.
1. Vaccine #1
2. Vaccine #2
3. Vaccine #3
4. Nothing, rolling the dice, depending on your own natural immune system.
5. HCQ Cocktain early, IF you're ever infected.
Since there is no bad vaccine danger, short or long term with my HCQ choice, that's where I'm at. And since the HCQ cure rate is so high if used early (1st week of symptoms), that's the safest way for me to go. Others are free to chose for themselves, just as I am.
I think that you are missing my point. I'm saying that people with natural antibodies do not need to be vaccinated so long as they have antibodies.
I won't tell others what they should or should not do but if I didn't have antibodies I would most likely get vaccinated.
I'm not saying that we should wait for natural herd immunity.
I'm not a doctor and I sucked in general at science while in school but there was mention of "memory" in the Emory article referring to natural antibodies. Maybe they termed it as cell memory??? Not sure.
I believe the point they were making is that it's believed that even if your antibodies levels drop that your body remembers how to reproduce them if required whereas that was less likely with vaccination antibodies.
I think I will re-read the article to refresh my memory.
Also the article mentioned that the study would lead to improvements with vaccinations that better mimick natural Covid-19 antibodies. Sounds promising.
My daughter had covid in Nov 2020. We quarantined for 24 days. She had a sniffle and lost her taste and smell for a while. My wife got vaxxed around feb and march with Pfizer and was sick for 3 days after the second shot. She is an Optician and is in peoples faces everyday.
My son got sick this past April. He did not have the flu or covid. I had an antibodies test done at the same time and was sure I had already had it in Jan 2020 from getting sick while working the arena or while in quarantine as I had a headache and some congestion.
I never had it. I was actually bummed because I had vacation coming up and would be in a mass of humanity.
I then decided to wait until hockey season was over and after my anniversary ( June 4) to get vaxxed in case it made me sick.
We celebrated early and I got the JnJ on June 3rd. I had a sore arm for 3 days but no other issues. One and done with the more traditional vax.
So one day before vacation I was supposedly fully vaxxed.
I only wore a mask on transportation at Disney as they had gotten rid of the mandate except that imposed by DOT.
I oppose any mandated vax.
I chose to get one.
My son got sick this past April. He did not have the flu or covid. I had an antibodies test done at the same time and was sure I had already had it in Jan 2020 from getting sick while working the arena or while in quarantine as I had a headache and some congestion.
I never had it. I was actually bummed because I had vacation coming up and would be in a mass of humanity.
I then decided to wait until hockey season was over and after my anniversary ( June 4) to get vaxxed in case it made me sick.
We celebrated early and I got the JnJ on June 3rd. I had a sore arm for 3 days but no other issues. One and done with the more traditional vax.
So one day before vacation I was supposedly fully vaxxed.
I only wore a mask on transportation at Disney as they had gotten rid of the mandate except that imposed by DOT.
I oppose any mandated vax.
I chose to get one.
