Recruiting
- Thread starter Michi-Gator
- Start date
How big and how fast can things change for the Mc-staff coached Gators?
1/1/16 Citrus Bowl - UF 7 - 41 Mich (+34)
1/2/17 Outback Bowl - UF 30 - 3 Iowa (-27) --- (Iowa 14 - 13 Mich)
And that improvement came with what some here call Mc-staff's crappy recruiting, (see the Mc-staff recruited underclassmen performance in 2016).
This guy said it so well on another board that I just gabbed his comments instead of addressing it myself:
SP-- "It's obvious from these comments that many of you don't follow recruiting that closely and don't do any homework. "Star gazing" is lazy recruiting. And I agree that we must get better at closing with some of the very top in prospects, but Mac and staff have done an exceptional job of evaluating talent early when others don't see it. Doesn't it seem ridiculous now that Perine was the #42 RB coming out of HS? ...or J Taylor the #54 OG? ...or Reese the #27 ILB?"
~ Plus I'd (iG) add at least: #35 DE Zuniga, #47 WR Callaway, #58 DE K.Davis, #88 SS (LB) K.Johnson, and #140 OT F.Johnson. All were 3 star rated in the 2015 class according to the 247 composite.
While some here whine about UF's 2017 class (15 so far), keep in mind that 6 of them are ESPN 300's, while 12 of them are 4 star rated and 5 of those 12 are early enrollees, with ship room for 9 more commits by NSD.
~ There is a substantial difference between the ESPN rankings and the 247 composite. Looking back over the last 2 Mc-classes, ESPN has been closer to correct on the individual recruit rankings than either 247 or rivals imo.
From a 247 ranked #21 class, >>> to a #12 class, >>> to NSD 2017? Looks to me like he's making progress and moving up, while improving the ' character quality' of the recruits that do come to UF.
PS
And if you think that ranking #29 RB Lamical Perine as a 3 star was ignorant, just wait until you get a load of incoming 3 star rated #33 RB Malik Davis...
Just like if you think that ranking #42 LB Vosean Joseph as a 3 star was ignorant, just wait until you get a load of 3 star #37 LB Ventrell Miller...
And while Mc has only signed between 2-5 *****'s, depending on who you want to believe, he has signed a whole bunch of top quality ****'s along with some very under-rated 3 stars.
I remain hopeful for the future. Others can continue to whine and complain if that's what floats their boats...
Why is everything so black and white with you? It's really the sign of a simpleton.
Can there be no middle ground in between McElwain's staff sucks at recruiting and every recruit they sign is an underrated gem who outperforms their rankings? It's a wonder our average margin of defeat in losses against ranked teams is 3 TD's with all these 3-star studs on the roster who are playing like 5-stars. Something isn't adding up.
Well, coming from such a 'fair and unbiased' gray-genius such as yourself, I guess that really puts me in my place...
Some see Mc-staff as a mostly incompetent, terrible Fooley hire, that has sucked for 2 years and can't recruit a lick. I don't. You got a problem with that, well to bad.
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Here's some of the 2016 Mc-staff guys that weren't 5 star rated, proving he/they can't recruit:
DE Jabari Zuniga - Led UF with 5 Sacks ties Huey Richardson for a tFr.
Was also #2 with 8.5 TFL. Wonder how he'll do as a full time starter?
CB/FS Chauncey Gardener - Outback Bowl MVP, 2 Int's, 1 Pic-6 (3 season Ints).
LB David Reese - Replaced the injured Sr MLB J.Davis, and Reese played great!
WR Tyrie Cleveland - 98 Yd TD @ LSU for #2 longest TD reception in UF history.
RT Jawaan Taylor - Starting RT by the 2nd game and made the Fr All SEC team.
Of course, IF those guys had been 5 star rated by somebody, then he'd be a great recruiter because that's the measure, not what the recruit does once he's on the field.
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Committee RB's 'worked better / more productive' than having a 'featured' RB.
Scarlett 5.0 ypc, L-46, Perine 4.6 ypc, L59, Thompson 4.4 ypc, L-36 (Outback 85 yd screen pass TD) and both Perine ad Thompson can catch and block -- Incoming freshmen RB(s): Davis, & maybe Lemons. Use-Um or Lose-Um.
Or go ahead and run Scarlett 25-30 times per game. It won't be long before he's off somewhere recovering and they are back to using what's left of the committee....
BTW, Scarlett's YPC went down as his # of carries per game went up. I guess that proves that a RB does better when he gets in 'a lot of carries flow or rhythm'...
(I've always heard that the 'rhythm method' was a false hope)
Do you want to cut 3-4 other guys throats, just so you can pad one guys stats?
I don't want the #1 RB in the SEC, I want the #1 running game in the SEC.
The last time that UF did that successfully, they ran for over 3,000 season yards.
And IF Mc-Nuss doesn't give all 3 young QB's (Franks-Trask-Allen) an 'equal opportunity' to win the job, then...
IMO, they 'pre-ordained' who would start in 2016, and it rightly bit them in the butt. ============
2017 Recruiting class, 5 Early Enrollees:
DT Kyree Campbell - Woodbridge, VA - 6A 1st Team All State
2016 Offense-Defense All-American Bowl
LB James Houston - Ft. Lauderdale, FL - Missed Sr season with ACL.
Jr- 37 Tkls, 20 Solo, 1 sac, 1 Int, 1 FF.
Ath Kadarius Toney - Eight Mile, AL - AL.com Super All State Team Off. MVP
QB/RB/WR/DB - P 3,604 yds, 32 TD - R 896 yds, 15 TD
OT Kadeem Telfort - Miami, FL - Semi-Finalist for 4A state champion.
TE Kemore Gamble - Miami, FL - 8A State Championship
I'll wait until NSD to see IF they have continued to improve their recruiting classes.
According to the 247 composit: Arrived in the 90's > 21 > 12 > ??
This is the high school from the town just north of mine here in FL. Saban is flying in on helicopters to meet recruits. Do other schools have budgets for stuff like that?
Part of the reason that I said that I'd call Saban a great coach, after he has the same level, or nearly same level success at a Duke or a Vandy, or even a UK.
And tell me, do they still issue their players a used car or truck when they arrive, or have they replaced that system with a much harder to detect, free taxi ride system?
And tell me, do they still issue their players a used car or truck when they arrive, or have they replaced that system with a much harder to detect, free taxi ride system?
Thomas Gold...
Scott Stricklin poopooing recruiting rankings, saying there's example after example of 2- & 3-stars panning out and 5-stars busting.
--- This makes me nervous
Scott Stricklin poopooing recruiting rankings, saying there's example after example of 2- & 3-stars panning out and 5-stars busting.
--- This makes me nervous
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Well, coming from such a 'fair and unbiased' gray-genius such as yourself, I guess that really puts me in my place...
Some see Mc-staff as a mostly incompetent, terrible Fooley hire, that has sucked for 2 years and can't recruit a lick. I don't. You got a problem with that, well to bad.
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Except nobody thinks this. This is just another one of your strawman you like to use so you can then flood the board with stats and rankings that you don't care about.
That doesn't sound good at all since there isn't more to it about getting recruiting where it needs to be etc.
That almost makes you think Stricklin would give Mac a 4th year even if we lost 5 games in 2017 to give the 3 stars a chance to outshine the larger number of blue chippers at other SEC schools.
That almost makes you think Stricklin would give Mac a 4th year even if we lost 5 games in 2017 to give the 3 stars a chance to outshine the larger number of blue chippers at other SEC schools.
I think the frustrating part on both sides is that people still don't seem to get what the stars are about. It isn't even about quality of player, they're projecting potential and impact. This is from memory so I might be a little bit off but from what I remember this is how they explained it a couple years back
5-star: has NFL-caliber measurements and should make an immediate impact
4-star: Potential all-conference player
3-star: In need of physical development and should contribute after 2-3 years in the program
2-star: A player that should contribute by year 3-4
NR: film hasn't been evaluated yet
So it isn't even really about how good they are. It's about measurables and their potential impact. That's why if you see two players with the same stats the dude with the better height and faster 40 will be rated higher even if he might not be the best player. If we start here it would make the arguments on both sides way less predictable.
5-star: has NFL-caliber measurements and should make an immediate impact
4-star: Potential all-conference player
3-star: In need of physical development and should contribute after 2-3 years in the program
2-star: A player that should contribute by year 3-4
NR: film hasn't been evaluated yet
So it isn't even really about how good they are. It's about measurables and their potential impact. That's why if you see two players with the same stats the dude with the better height and faster 40 will be rated higher even if he might not be the best player. If we start here it would make the arguments on both sides way less predictable.
Yep and I saw some articles before that clearly showed teams with the most blue chippers in their own conference clearly fared the best over the years. When you are in a conference like the SEC with so many teams cleaning house with blue chippers history shows you need a bunch just to have a chance to win the conference.
All it means is those guys have better measurables, not really that they're better players. And the better staff will put those measurables to use and so they win or at least they should. All 4 and 5-stars aren't good and all 3-stars aren't bad just like all 4-5 stars aren't overrated and all our 3-stars aren't underrated. Truth is it doesn't even matter that much on an individual basis...you're gonna have some bust and some overperform. It's just a guideline for how the class as a whole is. If people would just accept that we could stop having arguments trying to justify either point.
That could be one take. But it also means Stricklan is hearing noise, which is good or bad depending on how you feel about Mac. I just read at this point we only have 2 kids in the top 250 composite ranked players. Not good no matter how you spin it
Now should we trust the proven coaches that are making millions to make those kinds of judgments on the recruits, or the guys making peanuts to sling around their own personal and often times biased star ratings?
Individual star ratings and class rankings are fun for the fans, but judging the coaches by them is where the problem comes in. Constantly raggin' on Mc-staff because of what some recruiting service ranks them is just dumb,
and when you ignore the fact that they have produced B-2-B SECe-C's against all of the projections for them in their first 2 season,, it gets even dumber. Dumb and Dumber is not the place to be imo.
For the 7000th time Insta, Mac is not purposely passing on elite recruits, he is visiting many of them this week. Its not like he doesn't want them.
Also, its not a positive to only have 15 committs. We are scrambling where schoola like Bama, OSU and UGa are locked in to a few final kids or trying to flip others. We are not doing this the right way
Also, its not a positive to only have 15 committs. We are scrambling where schoola like Bama, OSU and UGa are locked in to a few final kids or trying to flip others. We are not doing this the right way
And what you don't seem to able to realize is that how many time you repeat BS, it's still just a growing pile of BS.
90-something, to #21, to #12, to #??.
It would be okay if Mc-staff could just make some progress in recruiting, but they continue to get worse and worse...
(that's total BS according to your own recruiting service ratings standard so far) 2015 Projection - 5-7 wins --- SECe-C with 10 wins and SEC CoY
(90-something class to #21)
2016 Projection - 6-8 wins at best --- SECe-C with 9 (10) wins, SECe-C again.
(then a #21 class to a #12 class)
But I don't see your own constant whining as anything more than some 'entitled' fan, screaming for even more from a new young HBC that came in to a total cluster on the offense, (thus the above projections).
I might begin to take your opinions seriously, just as soon as you learn how to give Mc-staff the credit that they are ALREADY DUE!
I don't understand why you use that #91 ranking to try to make any type of point. It's like nuance is lost on you. Muschamp was on the hotseat and a lot of recruits who would have gone to UF held off on committing until they knew what his status was. #91 wasn't the final damn ranking of the class nor would it have been if Muschamp got retained so to use it to measure progress from there is intellectually dishonest at best, dumb at worst.
There is a lot more that that, that you don't seem able to understand.
Musclecramps class was about #16 before being fired, with 12-15 in the class.
When he got fired, several bailed out (including a 5 star DT that followed him to AU if memory serves) leaving just 6-7 in the class with a ranking that then fell all the way down to 90-something when Mc arrived, with only about a month until NSD.
While also having to hire a staff, Mc managed to finish with 21 recruits and a #21 ranking from 247 that included 2 five stars. So Mc = No Credit in your book. = BS
And your "intellectually dishonesty" claim is nothing but a poor joke on you.
Mc can't recruit a lick, and he definitely is a poor judge of talent, with those crappy 3 star offers/commits....
Trouble with that is....
For the second consecutive year, college football’s national champion is trying to flip a 3-star running back committed to Florida.
In the last recruiting cycle, Alabama attempted to make a late run at Lamical Perine. Crimson Tide coaches offered Perine at the end of his senior season and recruited him up until the night before National Signing Day, but he chose to stick with the Mc-Gators. (and that worked out pretty well for Lamical too)
Now the Clemson Tigers, fresh off their national title, are coming after UF pledge 3 star RB Malik Davis (Tampa, Fla.).
I believe that Mc-Gators will keep Malik too. He's a Gator!
Trouble with that is....
For the second consecutive year, college football’s national champion is trying to flip a 3-star running back committed to Florida.
In the last recruiting cycle, Alabama attempted to make a late run at Lamical Perine. Crimson Tide coaches offered Perine at the end of his senior season and recruited him up until the night before National Signing Day, but he chose to stick with the Mc-Gators. (and that worked out pretty well for Lamical too)
Now the Clemson Tigers, fresh off their national title, are coming after UF pledge 3 star RB Malik Davis (Tampa, Fla.).
I believe that Mc-Gators will keep Malik too. He's a Gator!
While you 2 drunks never need any prune juice to sling your stupid chit all over the board.....
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According to SEC Country, which SEC school has sent the most players on to the NFL in the common draft era (1969)?
UF - 46
UA - 42
TN - 39
aTm - 28
LSU - 26
UGa - 25
For the 2017 draft, as many as 4 Gator's could be drafted in the 1st round, with a total of 8 drafted and a couple more going as F/A's, like Poole did in 2016 and is playing along with 1st Rnd K.Neal for the playoff Falcons.
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Clemp's-son, Dabo Swillie attempted to steal the Gator DL coach away from Mc-Gator, and failed. The Gators DL coach helped the Gators rank No. 5 in the country in Total Defense in 2016.
JMOHO here for sure. -- IF Mc-Nuss again 'pre-ordains' the starting QB (Franks), without giving all of them (Trask in the Spring and Allen in the Fall) the 'same/fair' chance to win the job, then the guy(s) chitted on should be smart and xfer out to a program that will give him a 'real' shot at winning the job. Otherwise just go ahead and put Clarabell (LDR) in the starters spot and stop jerking all of the QB recruits around.
(other than that, I believe that Mc-staff is doing a GREAT over-all job of coaching)
Mc has proven in his 1st few classes as the Gator HBC, that he's a pretty shrewd elevator of HS football talent. Three stars like WR Callaway, DE Zuniga, and RT Taylor, just to name a few of them.
Here is my own 'Not 3 Stars' list for 2017:
QB Jake Allen **** 3X 7A Champ - 4,569 Yds, 60%, 50 TD, 20 Int (Sr 26TD-7Int)
RB Malik Davis **** Hillsborough Co. Tampa career rushing record.
7,029 Yds, 8.5 ypc, 83 TD's. -- Dabo attempted to flip him.
Ath Kadarius Toney **** QB/RB/WR- A DT-QB, but likely a DB and/or KR/PR at UF.
DT Kyree Campbell **** Prep in 2016
UF-UA-AU-UGA-Tn--FSU-Mia-Mich-ND-tOSU-PSU-etc.
CB/FS Shawn Davis **** 6-0 190 with 17 offers including UA
~ LB James Houston **** UF-Ark-AU-LSU-MsSt-SCa-Tn---Clem-Mich-NC-Wis-etc.
~ 6-1 225 Fast OLB Clones
~ LB Ventrell Miller **** UF-Ms-SCa--Az-UL-Mia-Neb-NC-NCSt-USF-VaTech-etc.
IF Mc-staff are such poor recruiters, then why did NC Saban fail to flip 3 star RB Perine, and why has NC Dabo failed to flip 3 star RB M.Davis?
Critical for 2017: The success of the new OL coach with the New & Improved OL.
Finding the next long-term starting QB.
Three (3) star UF QB commit Jake Allen (Fort Lauderdale, Fla.) released his senior highlights Thursday. He led St. Thomas Aquinas to it's 3rd consecutive FL Class 7A State Championship in 2016. (3 stars my azzzz)
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Now, take it away oozzzing-dunny, your ugly smell is the standard for your posting.
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According to SEC Country, which SEC school has sent the most players on to the NFL in the common draft era (1969)?
UF - 46
UA - 42
TN - 39
aTm - 28
LSU - 26
UGa - 25
For the 2017 draft, as many as 4 Gator's could be drafted in the 1st round, with a total of 8 drafted and a couple more going as F/A's, like Poole did in 2016 and is playing along with 1st Rnd K.Neal for the playoff Falcons.
==========
Clemp's-son, Dabo Swillie attempted to steal the Gator DL coach away from Mc-Gator, and failed. The Gators DL coach helped the Gators rank No. 5 in the country in Total Defense in 2016.
JMOHO here for sure. -- IF Mc-Nuss again 'pre-ordains' the starting QB (Franks), without giving all of them (Trask in the Spring and Allen in the Fall) the 'same/fair' chance to win the job, then the guy(s) chitted on should be smart and xfer out to a program that will give him a 'real' shot at winning the job. Otherwise just go ahead and put Clarabell (LDR) in the starters spot and stop jerking all of the QB recruits around.
(other than that, I believe that Mc-staff is doing a GREAT over-all job of coaching)
Mc has proven in his 1st few classes as the Gator HBC, that he's a pretty shrewd elevator of HS football talent. Three stars like WR Callaway, DE Zuniga, and RT Taylor, just to name a few of them.
Here is my own 'Not 3 Stars' list for 2017:
QB Jake Allen **** 3X 7A Champ - 4,569 Yds, 60%, 50 TD, 20 Int (Sr 26TD-7Int)
RB Malik Davis **** Hillsborough Co. Tampa career rushing record.
7,029 Yds, 8.5 ypc, 83 TD's.
-- Dabo attempted to flip him.Ath Kadarius Toney **** QB/RB/WR- A DT-QB, but likely a DB and/or KR/PR at UF.
DT Kyree Campbell **** Prep in 2016
UF-UA-AU-UGA-Tn--FSU-Mia-Mich-ND-tOSU-PSU-etc.
CB/FS Shawn Davis **** 6-0 190 with 17 offers including UA
~ LB James Houston **** UF-Ark-AU-LSU-MsSt-SCa-Tn---Clem-Mich-NC-Wis-etc.
~ 6-1 225 Fast OLB Clones
~ LB Ventrell Miller **** UF-Ms-SCa--Az-UL-Mia-Neb-NC-NCSt-USF-VaTech-etc.
IF Mc-staff are such poor recruiters, then why did NC Saban fail to flip 3 star RB Perine, and why has NC Dabo failed to flip 3 star RB M.Davis?
Critical for 2017: The success of the new OL coach with the New & Improved OL.
Finding the next long-term starting QB.
Three (3) star UF QB commit Jake Allen (Fort Lauderdale, Fla.) released his senior highlights Thursday. He led St. Thomas Aquinas to it's 3rd consecutive FL Class 7A State Championship in 2016. (3 stars my azzzz)
=========
Now, take it away oozzzing-dunny, your ugly smell is the standard for your posting.
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Players drafted since 1969 has what to do with the current staff? And ironically, you'll trump all the players we're going to have drafted this year, none of which the current staff recruited, as proof they can recruit well. All the while claiming the last staff left a 'dumpster fire.' Brilliant. You post a lot without saying much of anything.
Mixing in general overall facts, with current opinions and speculations, along with some future projections, is a sure way to really corn-fuse the ozzzing idiots of the world. Sorry (not).
Watching you two spew all over yourselves is entertainment, in an ugly twisted sort of way...
Watching you two spew all over yourselves is entertainment, in an ugly twisted sort of way...
Yep, you're still insufferable. Just thought I'd check in to make sure nothing had changedMixing in general overall facts, with current opinions and speculations, along with some future projections, is a sure way to really corn-fuse the ozzzing idiots of the world. Sorry (not).
Watching you two spew all over yourselves is entertainment, in an ugly twisted sort of way...
here's a general rule of thumb... if you're in a room and nobody in that room can stand you, it's not them...it's you.Yep, you're still posting useless crap with nothing worthwhile to say.
Now, check back out, unless you want to join in with the other clueless idiots...
While you 2 drunks never need any prune juice to sling your stupid chit all over the board.....
=====
According to SEC Country, which SEC school has sent the most players on to the NFL in the common draft era (1969)?
UF - 46
UA - 42
TN - 39
aTm - 28
LSU - 26
UGa - 25
For the 2017 draft, as many as 4 Gator's could be drafted in the 1st round, with a total of 8 drafted and a couple more going as F/A's, like Poole did in 2016 and is playing along with 1st Rnd K.Neal for the playoff Falcons.
==========
Clemp's-son, Dabo Swillie attempted to steal the Gator DL coach away from Mc-Gator, and failed. The Gators DL coach helped the Gators rank No. 5 in the country in Total Defense in 2016.
JMOHO here for sure. -- IF Mc-Nuss again 'pre-ordains' the starting QB (Franks), without giving all of them (Trask in the Spring and Allen in the Fall) the 'same/fair' chance to win the job, then the guy(s) chitted on should be smart and xfer out to a program that will give him a 'real' shot at winning the job. Otherwise just go ahead and put Clarabell (LDR) in the starters spot and stop jerking all of the QB recruits around.
(other than that, I believe that Mc-staff is doing a GREAT over-all job of coaching)
Mc has proven in his 1st few classes as the Gator HBC, that he's a pretty shrewd elevator of HS football talent. Three stars like WR Callaway, DE Zuniga, and RT Taylor, just to name a few of them.
Here is my own 'Not 3 Stars' list for 2017:
QB Jake Allen **** 3X 7A Champ - 4,569 Yds, 60%, 50 TD, 20 Int (Sr 26TD-7Int)
RB Malik Davis **** Hillsborough Co. Tampa career rushing record.
7,029 Yds, 8.5 ypc, 83 TD's.
Ath Kadarius Toney **** QB/RB/WR- A DT-QB, but likely a DB and/or KR/PR at UF.
DT Kyree Campbell **** Prep in 2016
UF-UA-AU-UGA-Tn--FSU-Mia-Mich-ND-tOSU-PSU-etc.
CB/FS Shawn Davis **** 6-0 190 with 17 offers including UA
~ LB James Houston **** UF-Ark-AU-LSU-MsSt-SCa-Tn---Clem-Mich-NC-Wis-etc.
~ 6-1 225 Fast OLB Clones
~ LB Ventrell Miller **** UF-Ms-SCa--Az-UL-Mia-Neb-NC-NCSt-USF-VaTech-etc.
IF Mc-staff are such poor recruiters, then why did NC Saban fail to flip 3 star RB Perine, and why has NC Dabo failed to flip 3 star RB M.Davis?
Critical for 2017: The success of the new OL coach with the New & Improved OL.
Finding the next long-term starting QB.
Three (3) star UF QB commit Jake Allen (Fort Lauderdale, Fla.) released his senior highlights Thursday. He led St. Thomas Aquinas to it's 3rd consecutive FL Class 7A State Championship in 2016. (3 stars my azzzz)
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Now, take it away oozzzing-dunny, your ugly smell is the standard for your posting.
Who are these "two drunks" you're referring to?
The man claims to have seen aliens, he won't let facts get in his way about whatever it is he's going off about that day.
I cant believe we are this bad at recruiting. If we dont get a top 5 SEC class they need to just frickin resign. What a joke.
