I wonder who the sick-bird-shit learned that 'Circle Back' BS from, when he doesn't want to, or can't, answer the questions.
Proprietary COVID-19 and Vaccine thread
- Thread starter FresnoGator
- Start date
It’s the same.
People make choices about their health all the time. Poor choices increase the burden they place on the health care system.
What you and I don’t agree on is the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines. But you can’t prioritize one “healthy” decision over another. It’s fascistic and evil to even insinuate denying someone health care because you don’t agree with their life choices.
BTW, I’m vaccinated because of my risk category. But none of my kids are and won’t be, because I can think for myself and assess risk with logic and facts. If they somehow get sick with Covid you don’t want them to get health care, which means you’re evil and likely a terrible human. Also likely a Biden voter.
Libertarian paternalism
Dont let the name fool you. There is nothing libertarian about it.
Much?
It’s complicated, and the scale is important, it also differs greatly by country. Compare Switzerland and Chile for example. And even in the worst countries we’re talking 8 out of 100k.
What we don’t know is why people aren’t vaxxed. Some people aren’t healthy enough for the vaccines (remember the 23 elderly people that died from the vaccines in Norway early on?). Even this data isn’t the whole picture.
23 die in Norway after receiving Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine: officials
Common reactions to the vaccine, including fever and nausea, “may have contributed to a fatal outcome in some frail patients,” Sigurd Hortemo, chief physician at the Norwegian Medicines Agency, sai…
nypost.com
How do death rates from COVID-19 differ between people who are vaccinated and those who are not?
To understand how the pandemic is evolving, it’s crucial to know how death rates from COVID-19 are affected by vaccination status.
ourworldindata.org
Bump to the horde of crickets have have gone silent on the Ivermectin facts.
I'm 70+, I've had a heart attack, so I'm in what some call the danger zone.
I'm NOT taking that poison jab, but I do have my supply of Ivermectin on hand and readily available should I ever need it.
I'm 70+, I've had a heart attack, so I'm in what some call the danger zone.
I'm NOT taking that poison jab, but I do have my supply of Ivermectin on hand and readily available should I ever need it.
The newly emerged corona virus disease 2019 (COVID-19) has spread to all over the world, with recent estimates of more than 236 million cases diagnosed and led to 4.8 million deaths as November 20211 .Therapeutic approaches are needed to improve outcomes in patients with COVID-19 since no antiviral agent has yet been proved to be conclusively beneficial in COVID-19 infection, especially in patients with mild to moderate degree of severity.
There has been growing interest in the anti-parasitic drug,ivermectin, which previously was studied as an antiviral, anti-inflammatory and anti-cancer actions2 .It was also reported to have an in-vitro activity against SARS-CoV-23 .Its antiviral properties was due to the action on importin 2/1 mediated nuclear transport. Ivermectin prevents the binding of viral proteins to importin 2/1 rendering the viral proteins unable to enter the nucleus and cause infection4.
Several clinical studies have found a beneficial effect of ivermectin in COVID-195-9 However, some study did not find significant difference between the patient group receiving ivermectin and control group10 .Until now, the controlled trials evaluating ivermectin in COVID-19 are lacking. Ivermectin is safe, with reported side effect of less than 1%. Hence it is essential to conduct a clinical trial with ivermectin in patients with COVID-19 .The objective of this study is to establish the efficacy of ivermectin for COVID-19 patients with mild to moderate disease, compare to usual case alone.
ClinicalTrials.gov
clinicaltrials.gov
And for that choice @Illegal-shift would want to deny you hospital admission should the IVM not do what we hope it does. You didn’t make the “right” choice in his eyes. Your health care decisions aren’t yours.
100% evil
fats, that sick-bird-shit is free to spew his village idiot drivel here, but he's a non-starter on the Kung Flu.
He should be satisfied that I have no intention on going to a 1776 QUACK'S 😷 ICU, to be put on a ventilator and be left there in solitary confinement to die, while he/they continue to get rich off of it/me.
One of my older siblings got it recently, took Ivermectin as prescribed by the doctor, and was over in a few days.
I had it, or I had the most serious sinus infection I've ever had (did't bother testing for it), I just went ahead and took Ivermectin, and was over it in less than 72 hours.
Each to his own, but I'm kinda hoping that no Rats ever take HCQ or Ivermectin.
Let them roll those vax-dice and then they can deal with the consequences of their own decisions.... (forgive me Lord for that,,, as Larry would say) 😉
Some potentially good news about Omicron:
"Compared to the earlier Delta variant, Omicron multiplies itself 70 times more quickly in tissues that line airway passages, which may facilitate person-to-person spread, they said. But in lung tissues, Omicron replicates 10 times more slowly than the original version of the coronavirus, which might contribute to less-severe illness."
www.reuters.com
I am not a doctor, but this finding arguably reduces the need for a vaccine if this holds.
Omicron is the new vaccine.
My understanding is that as long as COVID doesn't infect your lungs, it's a common cold in terms of symptoms. It's when it gets into your lungs that things get serious.
Suppose Omicron chokes off the earlier variants due to its super contagiousness and infects everyone with a mild airway infection. In that case, it will effectively inoculate most of the population without triggering a severe illness.
"Compared to the earlier Delta variant, Omicron multiplies itself 70 times more quickly in tissues that line airway passages, which may facilitate person-to-person spread, they said. But in lung tissues, Omicron replicates 10 times more slowly than the original version of the coronavirus, which might contribute to less-severe illness."
Omicron thrives in airways, not lungs; new data on asymptomatic cases
The following is a summary of some recent studies on COVID-19. They include research that warrants further study to corroborate the findings and that has yet to be certified by peer review.
www.reuters.com
I am not a doctor, but this finding arguably reduces the need for a vaccine if this holds.
Omicron is the new vaccine.
My understanding is that as long as COVID doesn't infect your lungs, it's a common cold in terms of symptoms. It's when it gets into your lungs that things get serious.
Suppose Omicron chokes off the earlier variants due to its super contagiousness and infects everyone with a mild airway infection. In that case, it will effectively inoculate most of the population without triggering a severe illness.
Its not the same at all. You just want it to be, although I suspect you really know its not.
First of all, people being overweight or drug addicts are not doing that by choice. How many fat people do you know who want to be fat. Some are fat primarily based on their physiology and others because they can't control their eating...…which is human fault and NOT a choice like anti vax people are making. Its completely different. If fat people could take a shot to be thin you think there would be any that don't do it.....especially when most of the worlds smartest medical people are telling them that remaining fat is a greater health risk than taking the shot. They would be lining up out the door. The word "addict" itself tells you how its different...….people are addicted to drugs, they aren't choosing to be addicts. Your confused between normal human faults and making a choice......its apples and oranges. Human faults we certainly should provide care for or we would all be in trouble to some extent (its also something completely impossible to evaluate, unlike the simple choice to take the vaccine or not).
But it goes well beyond that. We are in the middle of a pandemic where hospital beds have been stretched thin and out health care workers pushed to the brink several times already and may well be again this winter when we have Delta, Omicron and the flu all at the same time. And that's the time we are being asked to make the vaccine choice......at the very time our resources are being stretched to the max......again completely different dynamic than a fat person or an addict which we easily handle all the time and is built into our health care system. Covid isn't......so this is a choice completely independent of any of the things you are brining up to try and make your position sound better. It fails on multiple levels.
The unvaccinated have put all of us in a more risky health care situation. That's why they should be held accountable for thier CHOICE. I am not sure why you really fight against this idea.......you apparently don't feel like there is much of any chance your kids will be hospitalized from covid, so why the hell should you worry about not being granted an ICU unit? And further, why would you go for care to the very doctors who recommended you get vaccinated? That doesn't make any sense.
So my position is......I don't support mandates. I don't support forcing people to do something they don't want to do in this situation. But I do ask those people to be accountable for their actions which includes not putting the rest of us in jeopardy in the middle of a pandemic because of your poor choices.
The one thing you will consistently find on social media boards like this are the folks who are the most quick about trying to say somebody else isn't intelligent are the people who are coving up for their own limited capabilities. Smart people have no need to do that kind of thing and generally don't do it.
Are you a doctor? Have you any specialized training pertaining to things like spike proteins and vaccines? Have you been studying them for years? Where did you acquire your vast knowledge such that you can debate the issues intelligently in public and ultimately chastise people for disagreeing with your so valued and time honored opinion?
I mean, if your going to hold yourself out there as being knowledgeable about this stuff, you can back it up, right? Well, I am willing to give you your due if you have earned it. Have you?
Or are you just another knucklehead?
I'm 100% vaxxed. I've even had a mild breakthrough infection - and got Regeneron'd. And now I'm supposed to live in eternal fear of the next variant. 😡
Not a medical person, but you know, this excusing you did of addicts and obese persons is so indicative of how you view this pandemic.
Obesity begins in childhood and is a killer. It's become a generational one. Food choices imposed by mothers on little ones. Mothers who are ignorant about nutrition, processed food, and the long term effects of feeding kids Happy Meals and Kraft Mac and Cheese.
Drug addiction? Who forced these people to take the first pill? The first hit? First snort or needle? And yet we should understand" their addiction? I do understand what it does to their kids who don't get fed for days, but that's about all.
So because not everyone has advanced knowledge of spike proteins and how they love to wreak havoc on body fat, they're "knuckleheads" and you're here to lecture?
I'll save everyone else the effort and just tell you on behalf of most of us to go eff yourself.
Not a medical person, but you know, this excusing you did of addicts and obese persons is so indicative of how you view this pandemic.
Obesity begins in childhood and is a killer. It's become a generational one. Food choices imposed by mothers on little ones. Mothers who are ignorant about nutrition, processed food, and the long term effects of feeding kids Happy Meals and Kraft Mac and Cheese.
Drug addiction? Who forced these people to take the first pill? The first hit? First snort or needle? And yet we should understand" their addiction? I do understand what it does to their kids who don't get fed for days, but that's about all.
So because not everyone has advanced knowledge of spike proteins and how they love to wreak havoc on body fat, they're "knuckleheads" and you're here to lecture?
I'll save everyone else the effort and just tell you on behalf of most of us to go eff yourself.
1) Where did I say that you're not intelligent, or less intelligent than I am?
2) So you have to be a Dr. to do any research at all about your health or any medical treatment you choose to take? Do you work on your own cars, fix things around the house or do anything without the help of a certified trained professional?
You're also assuming that nowhere in my research did I get information from a doctor or a peer reviewed study.
I think it's telling when I challenge you to look into things on your own you come after me. Sheep never question. It would devastate you to learn that maybe not every expert has your best interests at heart, it's easier to just do whatever Fauci and CNN tell you to, isn't it.
1) Next time you're in a grocery store look in the cart of a very, very obese person. Do you see broccoli, carrots and lean meats or do you see soda, Oreos and chips? People are making micro choices every day. Personal responsibility and agency are still central tenets of being a free citizen in a representative republic. You're free to overeat, eat shitty foods and not do damn thing to help yourself get healthier. And guess what, you and I go to work everyday to pay for that person's choices. It's just how it works.
2) Addicts are the same - no one forced them to take the drugs or alcohol. But once it's out of control they have choices - there's help in many different forms and some of it's even free. They're sick, I admit that, but plenty of sick people seek help.
3) And you picked two examples where you think you had a good argument and stuck to those. Let's hear your justifications on sharing needles, unprotected sex, riding motorcycles, driving too fast, people who don't seek treatment for long-term medical conditions and other risky behavior.
Liberals treat everyone like their a toddler. You create these false dichotomies where as long as you do what the authorities say you can do whatever you want. It's like telling a small child "you can have broccoli, carrots or alphalpha sprouts...see I gave you a choice?"
Now - any idea why we're pushing to vax kids? Do you have any clue how many kids have been lost to Covid? Did it occur to you why hospitals are understaffed - my kid got strep last week and the PA lived in Alabama but was seeing my kid in VA...does that seem odd? What about the two President scenario above, how did we lose more people after the vaccines to Covid than before...if the vaccines are so great why were we still headed for such a "dark winter". Nearly 75% of the country has had at least one dose and I can guarantee you that a good chunk of the remaining 25% got Covid and recovered. Do you ever ask questions?
We've had 50MM cases (800k deaths, which means 49.2MM people recovered with natural immunity) and 500MM doses of vaccines (including 50MM in the last month) administered in a country of about 300MM people and we're worried about hospitals being overwhelmed. Does that make any sense at all then to be denying people healthcare - which I'm sure you believe is a basic human right - based on a choice they made over an ineffective vaccine with a terrible safety profile?
We make choices - big and small - every single day. The person that the rest of the world sees is a direct result of every single choice you made, down to what color socks you picked. It's such a cop out to blame others when things aren't perfect in your life.
The bottom line is people engage in risky behavior and make terrible choices that affect their health everyday. As soon as the gov't starts picking and choosing where you have choices and where you don't we've entered an authoritarian state. My body my choice is a powerful abortion argument for this very reason - don't legislate my healthcare choices either through executive fiat or threats.
I'm arguing that we take care of each other and help each other regardless of the personal choices we make. I prioritize freedom, caring for others and personal agency. Apparently you prioritize authoritarianism and forced medical treatments. Like I said, we all make choices every day from when our feet hit the floor until we go to bed at night. I'm really comfortable with mine, and honestly appalled by yours.
@fatman76 called it, you want to punish people for not making the choice you liked.
Let's say you chose to get the shot. You read that the shots can cause dangerous or even fatal reactions in some people, but you decided that was overblown and got the shot anyway.
Let's say at the same time you chose to get the shot, a teenager leaves her apartment to drive 2 hours home to be with her parents for Christmas.
One hour after getting the shot, you begin to develop sudden, shortness of breath. A few minutes later, you begin to have a heart attack, and are rushed to the hospital.
10 mins before this happened to you, that teenage girl was sideswiped by a drunk driver. She has a life-threatening heart injury and has been rushed to the hospital.
The same one you are headed to.
There's one doctor on staff who can help either of you. The other will likely die.
Does he help you, after you knew the potential risks of the shot and got it anyway, or does he help the teenage girl who didn't have a choice?
Be careful with handing out judgement, you might find yourself on the wrong end of it one day.
Great post there! There is ample information on the independent media news front to educate people enough to make better choices regarding the experimental drug jabs falsley referred to as "vaccines." America's FrontLine Doctors is one site that comes to mind. There's also other websites ran by doctors/virologists like Dr. Jane Ruby, Dr. Peter McCullough, Dr. Julie Vestich, and Dr. Sheri Tenpenny which give accurate presentations and visuals of the graphene oxide chemical inside the vials plus its impact on your red blood cells entirely. I've seen those slides and it's the scariest thing yet. The graphene oxide looks almost like a demon from Hell itself and it wrecks your cells like an automobile accident. It's a shame most peope don't know this because they're so inundated with the fake MSM fear-porn from Fauci every morning. And it's also their own fault too. This is what happens in a society where sheep are governed by wolves.
100%
And when people like @Illegal-shift accuse anyone who asks questions of not listening to doctors and flowing the advice of experts, he’s essentially saying you should only follow the advice of doctors and scientists that he feels are the ones to listen to. There are plenty of very educated people sounding the alarm bells.
But the Sheep never question…
This would be a moronic idea if the shots were 100% safe and effective AND covid was 100% deadly.
1) you said - "Intelligent people can think for themselves and ask questions instead of blindly following beaurocrats and “experts”. So, pretty clearly trying to portray your the "intelligent" one.
2) No, your just confused. What you are doing is pretending your little bit of research means you can make a decision that goes against what the vast majority of experts around the world are telling you. That's a little bit different that changing the oil in a car. Let me put it this way.......if you had to go in for a heart operation tomorrow are you going to hand the scalpel to the doctors who have gone through medical school, residency and years of medical practice in this particular discipline - with the best up to date facilities, who have networks of other experience doctors to consult with, the latest medical research and years of experience with open heart surgery. Or are you going to hand the scalpel to some dude who "did his own research"?
Your so confused with your constant "sheep" reference. Its you who are following somebody that apparently makes you think you can speak intelligently about spike proteins when you probably never even heard the term before this pandemic starter. I know I didn't, which is why I leave that kind of analysis up to people who actually know what that the hell they are talking about. I know it would be idiotic on my part to think I can know more then them with a little internet research. So stop the stupid sheep reference.......some of us are actually using our brain with this and realize there are people who know a hell of lot more about this that we should listen to. And I am not talking about Anderson Cooper or Rachel Madcow......I am talking about medical people and institutions all over the globe. That's who we all should be listening too, because that's what makes sense. Listen to ALL the doctors and scientist. As a group they have no ulterior motive. If you were actually thinking for yourself you would know that.
This is from the guy that blindly took medical advice about the shots from Donald Trump.
Remember when Camel Toe said no way she was getting the Trump vaccine? Now they want to force you to get it, because they want total control. 🤣
And yet they all staged fake jab sessions like Mariah Carey did recently. And the sheep followed along.
76 - provocative comment here: what happens if their life choices include not working so that they cannot afford healthcare. Is that evil?
Bernie thinks so and thus why it should be MFA.
People should have freedom, choices but bear (at least some) the knowable consequences of those choices.
Why should I have to pay for: people who smoke so much they damage their lungs, or eat/drink so much they have diabetes, etc? That is also the Libertarian argument - and a good one.
For vaccines, for now, the benefits are clear and the risks, are very rare. Should I have to pay for your family if they get Covid-19 and require serious treatment when a vaccine was clearly available?
Now, if they took the vaccine and it did not work (your hypothesis), then sure, the collective should help out with your healthcare.
If we want freedom, we need to be able to bear the responsibility.
It is in that frame, along with this virus having been, very likely, genetically engineered in a lab and countered by a US developed vaccine funded by the Trump administration, that I have gladly taken the vaccines and the boosters.
Guess what, as well? I workout without a mask, go shopping without a mask, go into Best Buy/Xfinity without a mask, etc. I would fly on a plane without a mask too, if permitted.
You're intentionally missing the point and dodging questions that would lead to understand my position.
ALL the doctors and scientists are not saying the same thing. In fact, there's a doc here who's stated repeatedly he's against vaxxing kids (but he's very much in favor of vaccines). There are groups of doctors who have seen enough vaccine injured that they recommend other treatments. But you won't do 45 seconds of research. You're just going to do whatever Fauci says and tell me I'm an idiot for no longer "listening to the experts".
Once again I'll ask - why are the "experts" you listen to pushing the vax on kids aged 5-11? It's a simple question.
And comparing making decisions on medical treatments through research and grabbing the scalpel is jumping the shark, be better.
I coach youth sports and have had some kids who's families are unbelievably poor. And one in particular mom had no choice to work because she had 8 kids from 7 different dads who were all 12 and under when I was involved. She had healthcare, and you and I paid for it. It's called Medicaid. I have no issue with that. So I'm not sure I follow your question. 73MM people are in the same boat.
(although the kid did break his hand playing and she sent him to the ER in an ambulance instead of calling me...a $25k ride for a $400 xray bugged me...and is a micro example of why I don't support the single payer concept)
I'm arguing we should take care of people when they make bad decisions. I think the benefit of freedom, the poor result you normally get when you try to force something on someone and the ethical problems with letting someone suffer because you don't like their choices makes it an easy argument to me. That's a little different than supporting socialized medicine, the hybrid model we have now is far from perfect but has resulted in one of the better health care systems in the world.
You and I don't agree that the vaccines are safe and effective, so we can probably stop talking about it. But good for you, I hope the boosters and vaxxes you take work for you and I hope you never have any side effects. And if you happen to have a "rare" side effect I do I hope you get help to feel better.
LOL. You sure spend a lot of time criticizing the vaccine for someone who is vaccinated.
You sound like a Trump voter.
They are just trying to talk some sense into you people.
Scumbag RINO Larry Hogan
About 2 minutes later.....
Double vaxxed for the double dips**t.
not a word about how Omicron is both mild and cutting through the vaccines like a hot knife through butter....
LOL. Unlike a mindless lemming I can continue to learn, research and adjust my thinking.
You sound like a Biden voter.
Variants are typically more contagious and less severe.
They did the same thing with Delta variant that they are with this one: OMG it's TWICE AS CONTAGIOUS!!!!
No shit. It's supposed to be, and that's a GOOD thing. It proves the virus is running out of gas.
So the Hiden administration is intentionally lying to the American people, to try to scare them into getting the shots.
And I would bet every penny that @BSC911 owes Rivals that not a single core member of the Hiden administration has gotten the jab.
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