Proprietary COVID-19 and Vaccine thread

[Uniformed_ReRe]

Another relevant post from the UCF forum:

https://ucf.forums.rivals.com/threads/rising-covid-cases.92761/post-2251136

"I am an acute care nurse practitioner and UCF nursing professor. I maintain a very busy clinical practice. I can tell you firsthand, the hospitals are absolute war zones right now. I have never in my 21-year career seen anything remotely close to what I experienced working this weekend.

ICU RNs were shipped down to the ED—taking care of critical patients in observation beds in the ED because the ICU is completely FULL of COVID-19 patients, patients lining the hallways coughing on one another both within and BEHIND the ED because there are no rooms available to isolate them, patient acuity levels absolutely through the roof! It’s unreal.

I personally had 2 patients die today, one who was just 25! Essentially NONE of these patients are vaccinated. And the very few who are have immunocompromised states or other issues at play. It is just unbelievable! And the sad thing is, it’s practically preventable.

I am absolutely exhausted. RNs and even physicians are burnt to a crisp over this thing. My close friend, an ED RN, told me yesterday he feels like he’s working in a third world country. GET VACCINATED friends. Take care of yourselves and the ones you love."

 

[gator1776]

Another relevant post from the UCF forum:

https://ucf.forums.rivals.com/threads/rising-covid-cases.92761/post-2251136

"I am an acute care nurse practitioner and UCF nursing professor. I maintain a very busy clinical practice. I can tell you firsthand, the hospitals are absolute war zones right now. I have never in my 21-year career seen anything remotely close to what I experienced working this weekend.

ICU RNs were shipped down to the ED—taking care of critical patients in observation beds in the ED because the ICU is completely FULL of COVID-19 patients, patients lining the hallways coughing on one another both within and BEHIND the ED because there are no rooms available to isolate them, patient acuity levels absolutely through the roof! It’s unreal.

I personally had 2 patients die today, one who was just 25! Essentially NONE of these patients are vaccinated. And the very few who are have immunocompromised states or other issues at play. It is just unbelievable! And the sad thing is, it’s practically preventable.

I am absolutely exhausted. RNs and even physicians are burnt to a crisp over this thing. My close friend, an ED RN, told me yesterday he feels like he’s working in a third world country. GET VACCINATED friends. Take care of yourselves and the ones you love."

Everything she’s describing is the exact same thing we’re doing where I work. We have turned three regular hospital awards into makeshift ICUs and for about 10 days we had several Ventilated Covid patients in our local ER’s that we were finally able to get up to the makeshift ICUs. They’re doing team nursing because of the lack of nurses which means one critical care nurse takes care of 4 patients concentrating only on their drips in critical care needs while regular floor nurses do the turning of the patient in the baby another patient and the regular nursing floor duties or we wouldn’t have enough nurses to take care of everybody.

It is truly that bad and truly like nothing I’ve ever seen before and truly emotionally difficult which is why I have vented frustration in here for no other reason then to let off steam.

AND FAR WORSE THAN LAST YEAR!!!

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Speaking of statistics, I remember from my statistics classes in undergrad and grad school that 'essentially none' was a perfectly acceptable term.

As was using anecdotal evidence in lieu of actual evidence.

Wild guess, but betting they use the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy when it comes to determining vaccination status.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

This, and stop telling us no one has been killed or harmed by the vaccine(s). We aren’t idiots, even if we aren’t doctors.

All most of us are asking is for the mushroom treatment to stop. Informed consent predicates a full disclosure of all of the facts.

And claiming they are doctors so we can't understand what they do completely shuts down communication.

But they don't care about having a conversation, they care about winning an argument on the internet. And they can't even do that.

 

[testy524]

@gator1776 why do I always fall for the trap. Dude is calling me out because I said monocolonal antibody instead of regeneron not knowing all monocolonal antibodies have the same similes side effects such as anaphylaxis, bone marrow suppression etc. like how do we dumb things down so much on a message board but then have to show complex research analysis. How do I explain that when you get a monocolonal antibody, you have develop antibodies to that antibody and never be able to receive it again without your knowing, then the second time you get it, boom anaphylaxis. Or the basic concept of vaccine doesn’t stop from a respiratory virus test not being positive because it lives in your nares, but does prevent seed in lungs and persistent replication. Or why a governors life in very important so they thrown everything at him to prevent a death, even though it’s unnecessary. And the reason we don’t use regeneron in the hospital, is it needs to be used in the first 1-2 days of symptoms for it to work similar to tamiflu, and it has a small supply so not every hospital has it. Man it’s frustrating.

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

@gator1776 why do I always fall for the trap. Dude is calling me out because I said monocolonal antibody instead of regeneron not knowing all monocolonal antibodies have the same similes side effects such as anaphylaxis, bone marrow suppression etc. like how do we dumb things down so much on a message board but then have to show complex research analysis. How do I explain that when you get a monocolonal antibody, you have develop antibodies to that antibody and never be able to receive it again without your knowing, then the second time you get it, boom anaphylaxis. Or the basic concept of vaccine doesn’t stop from a respiratory virus test not being positive because it lives in your nares, but does prevent seed in lungs and persistent replication. Or why a governors life in very important so they thrown everything at him to prevent a death, even though it’s unnecessary. And the reason we don’t use regeneron in the hospital, is it needs to be used in the first 1-2 days of symptoms for it to work similar to tamiflu, and it has a small supply so not every hospital has it. Man it’s frustrating.

"Or the basic concept of vaccine doesn’t stop from a respiratory virus test not being positive because it lives in your nares, but does prevent seed in lungs and persistent replication."

This is an important point.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Everything she’s describing is the exact same thing we’re doing where I work. We have turned three regular hospital awards into makeshift ICUs and for about 10 days we had several Ventilated Covid patients in our local ER’s that we were finally able to get up to the makeshift ICUs. They’re doing team nursing because of the lack of nurses which means one critical care nurse takes care of 4 patients concentrating only on their drips in critical care needs while regular floor nurses do the turning of the patient in the baby another patient and the regular nursing floor duties or we wouldn’t have enough nurses to take care of everybody.

It is truly that bad and truly like nothing I’ve ever seen before and truly emotionally difficult which is why I have vented frustration in here for no other reason then to let off steam.

AND FAR WORSE THAN LAST YEAR!!!

I normally ignore the sob stories but I wanted to point out something: You keep talking about how stressful it is dealing with your patients every day. What you totally overlook, and completely dismiss the notion of is, what the rest of us are having to deal with when it comes to covid. You have no idea what any of us have had to go through.

Some of us have had to deal with getting covid ourselves. Or maybe we have friends or family that did. Maybe we even had to bury a friend or family member who had covid.

Or maybe we couldn't have a funeral for that friend or family member that died from covid. Or maybe we couldn't visit a friend or family member as they died alone in the hospital. Due to covid restrictions.

The point is, everyone here has most likely been touched by covid in some shape, form or fashion.

Your experiences don't make you more qualified to post what you post here anymore than mine do for me. Or anyone else here.

Your attitude that you have 'suffered' more so your opinions should care more weight is the height of arrogance and ignorance. You have no idea what anyone else here has dealt with.

Just keep that in mind from now on.

 

[gator1776]

@gator1776 why do I always fall for the trap. Dude is calling me out because I said monocolonal antibody instead of regeneron not knowing all monocolonal antibodies have the same similes side effects such as anaphylaxis, bone marrow suppression etc. like how do we dumb things down so much on a message board but then have to show complex research analysis. How do I explain that when you get a monocolonal antibody, you have develop antibodies to that antibody and never be able to receive it again without your knowing, then the second time you get it, boom anaphylaxis. Or the basic concept of vaccine doesn’t stop from a respiratory virus test not being positive because it lives in your nares, but does prevent seed in lungs and persistent replication. Or why a governors life in very important so they thrown everything at him to prevent a death, even though it’s unnecessary. And the reason we don’t use regeneron in the hospital, is it needs to be used in the first 1-2 days of symptoms for it to work similar to tamiflu, and it has a small supply so not every hospital has it. Man it’s frustrating.

It’s the same thing they do every day man. Yesterday I pointed out that we prevent RSV in infants that are high-risk by giving them monoclonal antibody targeted against RSV in non-infected high-risk infants but I called it a vaccine, which it is functioning like one, but by strict semantics they picked up on that and I’ve been attacking that ever sense. I keep insisting there are no vaccines for RSV even though there actually is a brand new messenger RNA vaccine for RSV that is under research and development right now.

Again they are not here to have a discussion they are here to further their agenda and since they don’t actually have any scientific arguments all they really have is to attack the posters because they can’t attack the science because, frankly, it’s not their area of expertise and they don’t have the knowledge to have a discussion on that level.

All you can do is smile and don’t respond unless it’s something that you need to point out the signs behind so that they don’t miss lead other non-scientific nonmedical people.

On a sidenote did you like that ventilator cheat sheet I gave you. It doesn’t include airway pressure release ventilation but that’s just good old fashion inverse ratio pressure control anyway.

 

[gator1776]

"Or the basic concept of vaccine doesn’t stop from a respiratory virus test not being positive because it lives in your nares, but does prevent seed in lungs and persistent replication."

This is an important point.

Yeah it was made very well in the article posted by @SORT14 yesterday from the Tampa newspaper written by the assistant chief of pathology for all the VA‘s in America.

What we now know about how to fight the delta variant of COVID | Column

An expert explains why vaccines — and masks — are so important, and why delta is different and more dangerous.

www.tampabay.com

 

[gator1776]

@gator1776 why do I always fall for the trap. Dude is calling me out because I said monocolonal antibody instead of regeneron not knowing all monocolonal antibodies have the same similes side effects such as anaphylaxis, bone marrow suppression etc. like how do we dumb things down so much on a message board but then have to show complex research analysis. How do I explain that when you get a monocolonal antibody, you have develop antibodies to that antibody and never be able to receive it again without your knowing, then the second time you get it, boom anaphylaxis. Or the basic concept of vaccine doesn’t stop from a respiratory virus test not being positive because it lives in your nares, but does prevent seed in lungs and persistent replication. Or why a governors life in very important so they thrown everything at him to prevent a death, even though it’s unnecessary. And the reason we don’t use regeneron in the hospital, is it needs to be used in the first 1-2 days of symptoms for it to work similar to tamiflu, and it has a small supply so not every hospital has it. Man it’s frustrating.

The anaphylaxis is why we used to give the RSV monoclonal antibody and the pediatric ICU or neonatal ICU because the risk is significant but if those kids get RSV they tend to die so it was worth the risk.

 

[gator1776]

@gator1776 why do I always fall for the trap. Dude is calling me out because I said monocolonal antibody instead of regeneron not knowing all monocolonal antibodies have the same similes side effects such as anaphylaxis, bone marrow suppression etc. like how do we dumb things down so much on a message board but then have to show complex research analysis. How do I explain that when you get a monocolonal antibody, you have develop antibodies to that antibody and never be able to receive it again without your knowing, then the second time you get it, boom anaphylaxis. Or the basic concept of vaccine doesn’t stop from a respiratory virus test not being positive because it lives in your nares, but does prevent seed in lungs and persistent replication. Or why a governors life in very important so they thrown everything at him to prevent a death, even though it’s unnecessary. And the reason we don’t use regeneron in the hospital, is it needs to be used in the first 1-2 days of symptoms for it to work similar to tamiflu, and it has a small supply so not every hospital has it. Man it’s frustrating.

And understand the part about respiratory virus living in your nasal passages would require them to understand the difference between IgA and IgG mediated immunity. Something else that they do not grasp but don’t even realize that they don’t grasp. Again they’re not here to learn or discuss or talk they’re here to push their agenda, win Internet arguments, and exist in their echo chamber of their three or four buddies patting them on the back to inflate their self-esteem, and troll.

The epitome of hilarious is how I pointed out several years ago that @GhostOfMatchesMalone Clearly has a narcissistic personality disorder and explained it and all the details including the underlying insecurity and from the day I did that he’s tried to flip that and turn that on me because he’s an effective arguer with no real knowledge, a.k.a. a lawyer

 

[jfegaly]

It’s the same thing they do every day man. Yesterday I pointed out that we prevent RSV in infants that are high-risk by giving them monoclonal antibody targeted against RSV in non-infected high-risk infants but I called it a vaccine, which it is functioning like one, but by strict semantics they picked up on that and I’ve been attacking that ever sense. I keep insisting there are no vaccines for RSV even though there actually is a brand new messenger RNA vaccine for RSV that is under research and development right now.

Again they are not here to have a discussion they are here to further their agenda and since they don’t actually have any scientific arguments all they really have is to attack the posters because they can’t attack the science because, frankly, it’s not their area of expertise and they don’t have the knowledge to have a discussion on that level.

All you can do is smile and don’t respond unless it’s something that you need to point out the signs behind so that they don’t miss lead other non-scientific nonmedical people.

On a sidenote did you like that ventilator cheat sheet I gave you. It doesn’t include airway pressure release ventilation but that’s just good old fashion inverse ratio pressure control anyway.

No. Yesterday, you were trying to validate vaccines by saying there was a vaccine for RSV. Your words. Why would you choose a monoclonal for defending vaccine safety? The history of the convo is ITT. Your pride and arrogance is why your credibility is shot. It’s why you called testy into this thread. Thats your MO.

You can’t stand on your own

From your post #102 yesterday

“ Yes, 55 years ago they developed a vaccine that didn’t work as well as they wanted it to. Since then we have developed hundreds of respiratory vaccines including a much better one against RSV which we give to high risk kids”


Now. According to the CDC. “There are currently NO vaccines for RSV”


There is however, wait for it…..a monoclonal treatment


You were wrong. And then tried to double down instead of admitting it. Pride is a bitch

 

[jfegaly]

And understand the part about respiratory virus living in your nasal passages would require them to understand the difference between IgA and IgG mediated immunity. Something else that they do not grasp but don’t even realize that they don’t grasp. Again they’re not here to learn or discuss or talk they’re here to push their agenda, win Internet arguments, and exist in their echo chamber of their three or four buddies patting them on the back to inflate their self-esteem, and troll.

The epitome of hilarious is how I pointed out several years ago that @GhostOfMatchesMalone Clearly has a narcissistic personality disorder and explained it and all the details including the underlying insecurity and from the day I did that he’s tried to flip that and turn that on me because he’s an effective arguer with no real knowledge, a.k.a. a lawyer

Those 3 fingers pointing back at you….are your own.

Sending PMs and tagging for validation…..bruh, nothing screams insecurity more than that.

 

[fatman76]

@gator1776 why do I always fall for the trap. Dude is calling me out because I said monocolonal antibody instead of regeneron not knowing all monocolonal antibodies have the same similes side effects such as anaphylaxis, bone marrow suppression etc. like how do we dumb things down so much on a message board but then have to show complex research analysis. How do I explain that when you get a monocolonal antibody, you have develop antibodies to that antibody and never be able to receive it again without your knowing, then the second time you get it, boom anaphylaxis. Or the basic concept of vaccine doesn’t stop from a respiratory virus test not being positive because it lives in your nares, but does prevent seed in lungs and persistent replication. Or why a governors life in very important so they thrown everything at him to prevent a death, even though it’s unnecessary. And the reason we don’t use regeneron in the hospital, is it needs to be used in the first 1-2 days of symptoms for it to work similar to tamiflu, and it has a small supply so not every hospital has it. Man it’s frustrating.

Welcome to the shitshow.

Can you advise what you think about actual data around adverse events related to vaccines? We know there are limitations to VAERS, but if that won't work, where do we go for good information?

Do we know how long the spike protein lasts and if there are any potential long term effects?

 

[jfegaly]

I have a feeling there is a lot more context here, but in all reality that isn't my concern. I'm enjoying the conversation.

Guarantee you the doc doesn’t want to talk about the context. You want context? Here you go.

Yesterday I mentioned…why are folks comparing this vax to polio vax. Wouldn’t it be more like the failed RSV vaccines? I then posted a link about the decades of failures of RSV vaccines (there still aren’t any approved for use by the way). The ones they created in the past caused enhanced virus. In other words….it made the virus worse. I then showed that the CDC is currently studying the covid vaccines for ADE. (Enhanced virus)

Then doc chimed in and claimed that over the past 55 years…they had created many vaccines fir respiratory virus , including a vaccine for RSV that they were using on high risk patients.

According to the CDC. “There are Currently NO vaccines for RSV.

Then when doc got caught with his pants down he mentioned they were treating patients with palivizumab. What he omitted? Is that is a monoclonal treatment not a VACCINE. My guess is that he did this intentionally thinking no one would call him on his BS of that not being a vax. I base this on past history of this particular doc.

The funny part….he is the same doc that is literally bashing monoclonal treatments ITT.

Now, instead of admitting his mistake, he chose to double down and chalk it up as a….well I was talking about this vaccine that I just googled, that literally went into phase 1 trials 2 weeks ago. SMDH.

And he wonders why folks don’t listen to him. SMDH.

Get your pride in check and just say….I made a mistake. If you truly are genuine in trying to win hearts and minds to vaccinate, then stop bullshitting. His need to be validated on covid vax has trumped all objectivity and honesty.

 

[testy524]

Welcome to the shitshow.

Can you advise what you think about actual data around adverse events related to vaccines? We know there are limitations to VAERS, but if that won't work, where do we go for good information?

Do we know how long the spike protein lasts and if there are any potential long term effects?

The vaers system is highly flawed but necessary. It shows patterns that will be picked up. For instance the clotting issues with the J&J. But has little oversight. The best place for vaccine safety is in the published trials that follow the ~50k folks that did the trial, my dad included for moderna.
So far seems the Pfizer levels starts to fade around 6 months, but is still present. Modernas is holding tight around 9 months so far. J&j hasn’t published longer term data.

 

[gator1776]

The vaers system is highly flawed but necessary. It shows patterns that will be picked up. For instance the clotting issues with the J&J. But has little oversight. The best place for vaccine safety is in the published trials that follow the ~50k folks that did the trial, my dad included for moderna.
So far seems the Pfizer levels starts to fade around 6 months, but is still present. Modernas is holding tight around 9 months so far. J&j hasn’t published longer term data.

Gee, where have I heard this before
😌😌

 

[fatman76]

The vaers system is highly flawed but necessary. It shows patterns that will be picked up. For instance the clotting issues with the J&J. But has little oversight. The best place for vaccine safety is in the published trials that follow the ~50k folks that did the trial, my dad included for moderna.
So far seems the Pfizer levels starts to fade around 6 months, but is still present. Modernas is holding tight around 9 months so far. J&j hasn’t published longer term data.

Not necessarily asking about antibody durations, more about the spike protein that spurs the development of antibodies - where does it go in the body and how long do they last? Do we know if they can cause issues long term? We were told it stayed in the arm muscle, but there are several reports that indicate that may not be the case.

And I’m reading that if VAERS is bad data, we essentially have no data for the 350MM+ Shots we’ve given? That leaves us to smaller trials that were used to get EUA as the only data points?

Doesn’t that seem like a wasted opportunity?

 

[BamaFan1137]

@testy524
Join the fun man
We’ve got a vibrant flat earther crowd in here
How does your systems numbers look?

I believe the earth is round.

I also still have some concerns over the long-term re: vaccination and I don't believe that those concerns reach flat-earther asininity. I also still have questions about its viability to prevent disease but I do believe that it is pretty clearly lessening the effects of the disease.

 

[gator1776]

I believe the earth is round.

I also still have some concerns over the long-term re: vaccination and I don't believe that those concerns reach flat-earther asininity. I also still have questions about its viability to prevent disease but I do believe that it is pretty clearly lessening the effects of the disease.

I assure you that was not aimed at you at all. You have reasonable concerns and we have reasonable discussions on it and I enjoy those with anyone. Current evidence is mounting that it not only prevents disease to a great extent, though not perfect, and also greatly reduces your risk of severe disease and dying from Covid if you still get it.

In that way it functions very much like an influenza vaccine.

 

[BamaFan1137]

I assure you that was not aimed at you at all. You have reasonable concerns and we have reasonable discussions on it and I enjoy those with anyone. Current evidence is mounting that it not only prevents disease to a great extent, though not perfect, and also greatly reduces your risk of severe disease and dying from Covid if you still get it.

In that way it functions very much like an influenza vaccine.

But I was right about earth, correct?

 

[jfegaly]

I believe the earth is round.

I also still have some concerns over the long-term re: vaccination and I don't believe that those concerns reach flat-earther asininity. I also still have questions about its viability to prevent disease but I do believe that it is pretty clearly lessening the effects of the disease.

Sounds like pretty much all of us “anti-vaxxers” on this board concerns.

 

[gator1776]

But I was right about earth, correct?

Well I haven’t fallen off yet so I’m thinking yes

 

[jfegaly]

I assure you that was not aimed at you at all. You have reasonable concerns and we have reasonable discussions on it and I enjoy those with anyone. Current evidence is mounting that it not only prevents disease to a great extent, though not perfect, and also greatly reduces your risk of severe disease and dying from Covid if you still get it.

In that way it functions very much like an influenza vaccine.

Interesting to hear that you finally acknowledge the same concerns that 99 percent of the rest of us “flat earthers”. Why the sudden change of heart?

 

[jfegaly]

gator1776 got fed up and started trolling a few days ago. It was obvious to me, but it may not have been obvious to others due to the Poe Effect.

Poe's law - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

No way. How might you know this?

 

[DCandtheUTBand]

Interesting to hear that you finally acknowledge the same concerns that 99 percent of the rest of us “flat earthers”. Why the sudden change of heart?

Some people and not necessarily just you are out to get a gotcha moment instead of respectful discussion. More than half this thread and previous ones have been nothing but harassment IMHO. I am for free speech so carry on.

I am conservative, have my concerns about the vaxxes. and agree with you guys probably 90% of the time politically. But this intra-sectional fighting is sickening. I care not what the liberals do among themselves but conservative are brethren


Psalm 133
(A Song of degrees of David.) Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

2 It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;

3 As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.

 

[gator1776]

Some people and not necessarily just you are out to get a gotcha moment instead of respectful discussion. More than half this thread and previous ones have been nothing but harassment IMHO. I am for free speech so carry on.

I am conservative, have my concerns about the vaxxes. and agree with you guys probably 90% of the time politically. But this intra-sectional fighting is sickening. I care not what the liberals do among themselves but conservative are brethren


Psalm 133
(A Song of degrees of David.) Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

2 It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;

3 As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.

View embedded media

This. It was very eye-opening to me to realize how quickly certain people would turn on you in here if you disagree with them despite the fact that you have so many shared values as a libertarian and a conservative, which is what I am. And I don’t mean they just turn on you and attack your point of , they turn on you and try and tear you down personally, which, while ineffective on me, has chased other people off through the years.

🤷

Yet truly I am not beyond sin in this category either, So Judge not lest ye be judged.

For he who troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind.

 

[jfegaly]

Some people and not necessarily just you are out to get a gotcha moment instead of respectful discussion. More than half this thread and previous ones have been nothing but harassment IMHO. I am for free speech so carry on.

I am conservative, have my concerns about the vaxxes. and agree with you guys probably 90% of the time politically. But this intra-sectional fighting is sickening. I care not what the liberals do among themselves but conservative are brethren


Psalm 133
(A Song of degrees of David.) Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

2 It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;

3 As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.

View embedded media

No problem with that take. That being said, might I suggest you take a look at the guy admitting to “trolling” and telling folks ….watch this I am getting ready to troll these guys. Just sayin.

Thats done with intent.

As for gotcha moments. Not looking to “get” anyone. Just want accurate facts, and when you submit misinformation to support your stance…it should be called out and acknowledged. Instead of doubling down. It does more harm than good.

As far as conservatives go….first, I am a libertarian. Second, what makes being on the right side great is that we are a big tent and get to voice our disagreements, even within our own circles

 

[jfegaly]

This. It was very eye-opening to me to realize how quickly certain people would turn on you in here if you disagree with them despite the fact that you have so many shared values as a libertarian and a conservative, which is what I am. And I don’t mean they just turn on you and attack your point of , they turn on you and try and tear you down personally, which, while ineffective on me, has chased other people off through the years.

🤷

Yet truly I am not be on sin in this category either.

For either troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind.

Revisionist history eh.

Sincerely,

Piece of shit

 

[fatman76]

These responses, and the lack of many others, gets to the heart of what the problem is for some of us who are worried.

We knew that the vaccines were effective. Now we know that we've had to shift what "effective" means - similar to your definition above. Most of us, even if suspicious, can handle that.

The main issue is - I can't get a doctor to say three simple words. "I don't know". Not sure if it's arrogance fed by years of education and experience, the fear they might cause more hesitancy or just simple pride.

But ALL the information I've rec'd from any doctor, including my dad, is on one side of the coin. If the medical community would treat people that were scared of essentially entering the biggest vaccine trial in the history of our country like adults and say something like "I don't know the long term effects. We don't think they are going to be significant, but that data doesn't exist. We aren't sure how many people have died, but we know some are likely to have passed as a result of these treatments."

Instead anyone hesitant is shamed, treated like an idiot and called a conspiracy theorist for just wanting to make a decision with ALL the data. If we know the data isn't there, then fine - admit that. But it makes it worse when medical professionals bristle at the thought you could even consider questioning the risk/reward of the vaccine.

 

[jfegaly]

These responses, and the lack of many others, gets to the heart of what the problem is for some of us who are worried.

We knew that the vaccines were effective. Now we know that we've had to shift what "effective" means - similar to your definition above. Most of us, even if suspicious, can handle that.

The main issue is - I can't get a doctor to say three simple words. "I don't know". Not sure if it's arrogance fed by years of education and experience, the fear they might cause more hesitancy or just simple pride.

But ALL the information I've rec'd from any doctor, including my dad, is on one side of the coin. If the medical community would treat people that were scared of essentially entering the biggest vaccine trial in the history of our country like adults and say something like "I don't know the long term effects. We don't think they are going to be significant, but that data doesn't exist. We aren't sure how many people have died, but we know some are likely to have passed as a result of these treatments."

Instead anyone hesitant is shamed, treated like an idiot and called a conspiracy theorist for just wanting to make a decision with ALL the data. If we know the data isn't there, then fine - admit that. But it makes it worse when medical professionals bristle at the thought you could even consider questioning the risk/reward of the vaccine.

^^^^ This. Been saying for months. The approach is awful at best.

 

[gator1776]

These responses, and the lack of many others, gets to the heart of what the problem is for some of us who are worried.

We knew that the vaccines were effective. Now we know that we've had to shift what "effective" means - similar to your definition above. Most of us, even if suspicious, can handle that.

The main issue is - I can't get a doctor to say three simple words. "I don't know". Not sure if it's arrogance fed by years of education and experience, the fear they might cause more hesitancy or just simple pride.

But ALL the information I've rec'd from any doctor, including my dad, is on one side of the coin. If the medical community would treat people that were scared of essentially entering the biggest vaccine trial in the history of our country like adults and say something like "I don't know the long term effects. We don't think they are going to be significant, but that data doesn't exist. We aren't sure how many people have died, but we know some are likely to have passed as a result of these treatments."

Instead anyone hesitant is shamed, treated like an idiot and called a conspiracy theorist for just wanting to make a decision with ALL the data. If we know the data isn't there, then fine - admit that. But it makes it worse when medical professionals bristle at the thought you could even consider questioning the risk/reward of the vaccine.

I say I don’t know at work probably 10 to 15 times a day. I think the issue is you want us to say I don’t know for things that we do know.

We do know vaccines are effective

We do know it reduces both the risk of getting infected, the risk of spreading it, and certainly the risk of you getting really sick and dying from it

We have known all along, from day one, that booster shots will be required with his vaccine just like you have to get a flu vaccine every year because respiratory viruses mutate

We have known from day one that vaccines are not 100% effective. Vaccines are never 100% affective except for the smallpox vaccine and it was a extremely unique situation.

We know ivermectin has not been proven to work yet.

We know ivermectin has side effects and therefore without proven benefit we don’t give it.

We know the exact same thing can be said for hydroxychloroquine who’s effects are better done by dexamethasone anyway

We know there are very few effective treatments for coronavirus when you get severe disease.
Of those, The ones that may work in terms of effectiveness:
-Monoclonal antibody against the virus theoretically lowers your risk of hospitalization
-Remdesivir for reduction in viral load
-Dexamethasone reduces the hyperimmune response and has shown a slight improvement in mortality in severe cases
-Actemra is it interleukin 6 blocking antibody that has shown a slight reduction in time on ventilator and mortality in extremely sick patients and has shown a reduction in severity of infection and in increasing oxygen requirements in non-Ventilated patients
-Baricitinib in conjunction with Remdesivir showed a slight reduction in hospital days
-And combining dexamethasone with Remdesivir plus/minus Actemra likely provides our best chance for getting severely ill people on high levels of oxygen or on ventilator to get better, but it’s not much of a chance.
-We know to avoid ventilation as long as possible and to allow some permissive hypoxemia if they can tolerate it.

And we know every one of these drugs needs better research and more studies. Likely in the form of meta-analysis.

What has been well documented over and over again now is your best chance to survive Covid is to not get it or to already have the natural antibodies that you produced in response to a vaccine in your system ready to go, a.k.a. VACCINATION.

In addition we also know that the current surge in the Coronavirus pandemic is the worst we’ve seen to date and that hospitals across the country, particularly in the Southeast and Southwest, are inundated with coronavirus patients and running short on valuable resources, in particular doctors and nurses.

You guys act like this is controversial or some mystery and that we should say we really don’t know these things, but we do know these things and it has been shown in published study after published study after published study. Or it’s been reviewed by expert after expert after expert and put into several guidelines. We’re not gonna sit here and tell you we don’t know what we do know just because it doesn’t fit into your worldview.

And yes we do know how to interpret the literature better than you when it comes to medical research because we have all trained for years on how to decipher medical research.

You can learn from what we tell you or you can ignore it and call us arrogant and nitpick and attack the messenger because you damn sure have not been very effective it attacking the science.

@testy524 @SORT14 @dingyibvs @Tmi512 @Phenry44 @Uniformed_ReRe @BSC911 @jfegaly @GhostOfMatchesMalone @fatman76
@Swamp_Thing

..

 

[kjfreeze]

Washington Hospital Removing Patients From Transplant List for Being Unvaccinated​

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...moving-patients-transplant-list-unvaccinated/

 

[jfegaly]

I say I don’t know at work probably 10 to 15 times a day. I think the issue is you want us to say I don’t know for things that we do know.

We do know vaccines are effective

We do know it reduces both the risk of getting infected, the risk of spreading it, and certainly the risk of you getting really sick and dying from it

We have known all along, from day one, that booster shots will be required with his vaccine just like you have to get a flu vaccine every year because respiratory viruses mutate

We have known from day one that vaccines are not 100% effective. Vaccines are never 100% affective except for the smallpox vaccine and it was a extremely unique situation.

We know ivermectin has not been proven to work yet.

We know ivermectin has side effects and therefore without proven benefit we don’t give it.

We know the exact same thing can be said for hydroxychloroquine who’s effects are better done by dexamethasone anyway

We know there are very few effective treatments for coronavirus when you get severe disease.
Of those, The ones that may work in terms of effectiveness:
-Monoclonal antibody against the virus theoretically lowers your risk of hospitalization
-Remdesivir for reduction in viral load
-Dexamethasone reduces the hyperimmune response and has shown a slight improvement in mortality in severe cases
-Actemra is it interleukin 6 blocking antibody that has shown a slight reduction in time on ventilator and mortality in extremely sick patients and has shown a reduction in severity of infection and in increasing oxygen requirements in non-Ventilated patients
-Baricitinib in conjunction with Remdesivir showed a slight reduction in hospital days
-And combining dexamethasone with Remdesivir plus/minus Actemra likely provides our best chance for getting severely ill people on high levels of oxygen or on ventilator to get better, but it’s not much of a chance.

And we know every one of these drugs needs better research and more studies. Likely in the form of meta-analysis.

What has been well documented over and over again now is your best chance to survive Covid is to not get it or to already have the natural antibodies that you produced in response to a vaccine in your system ready to go, a.k.a. VACCINATION.

In addition we also know that the current surge in the Coronavirus pandemic is the worst we’ve seen to date and that hospitals across the country, particularly in the Southeast and Southwest, are inundated with coronavirus patients and running short on valuable resources, in particular doctors and nurses.

You guys act like this is controversial or some mystery and that we should say we really don’t know these things, but we do know these things and it has been shown in published study after published study after published study. Or it’s been reviewed by expert after expert after expert and put into several guidelines. We’re not gonna sit here and tell you we don’t know what we do know just because it doesn’t fit into your worldview.

You can learn from what we tell you or you can ignore it and call us arrogant and nitpick and attack the messenger because you damn sure have not been very effective it attacking the science.

@testy524 @SORT14 @dingyibvs @Tmi512 @Phenry44 @Uniformed_ReRe @BSC911 @jfegaly @GhostOfMatchesMalone @fatman76

..

Finally a good post. Maybe you should have tried to do this sooner instead of all the other BS you did. Regardless of what you believe, you did not help win hearts and minds the way you were going about things. While I appreciate you bringing this to the table, you still didn’t address much of @fatman76 concerns with side effects etc. You literally just went on and on about treatments that a month ago, you denied there being.

Just sayin.

So pickup the mic, stop being arrogant, and start being a humble and honest servant. Thats why you chose that profession, right?

I don’t want to rehash how all this shat with you began, but can if you would like. Many on here witnessed it, and others are privy to some of the PMs that you were sending. Let’s just say, you get what you deserve in this life.

When you set out to troll, and end up being the one crying about the treatment you’re getting or getting upset like @Uniformed_ReRe said earlier….well, it is what it is.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

We do know vaccines are effective

We do know it reduces both the risk of getting infected, the risk of spreading it, and certainly the risk of you getting really sick and dying from it

From the CDC's own website:

"Immunity: Protection from an infectious disease. If you are immune to a disease, you can be exposed to it without becoming infected.

Vaccine: A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but can also be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

Vaccination: The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.

Immunization: A process by which a person becomes protected against a disease through vaccination. This term is often used interchangeably with vaccination or inoculation."

Immunization Basics | CDC

Immunization: The Basics

www.cdc.gov

You just said the vaccines REDUCE the risk of getting infected by covid.

Then that means, according to the CDC, that the shots don't give immunity.

Then by extension, these shots are NOT VACCINES.

Vaccines give immunity. Again, per the CDC. You just admitted that these shots DO NOT MAKE YOU IMMUNE TO COVID.

These are not vaccines. I'm sorry, but facts matter.

 

[fatman76]

I say I don’t know at work probably 10 to 15 times a day. I think the issue is you want us to say I don’t know for things that we do know.

We do know vaccines are effective

We do know it reduces both the risk of getting infected, the risk of spreading it, and certainly the risk of you getting really sick and dying from it

We have known all along, from day one, that booster shots will be required with his vaccine just like you have to get a flu vaccine every year because respiratory viruses mutate

We have known from day one that vaccines are not 100% effective. Vaccines are never 100% affective except for the smallpox vaccine and it was a extremely unique situation.

We know ivermectin has not been proven to work yet.

We know ivermectin has side effects and therefore without proven benefit we don’t give it.

We know the exact same thing can be said for hydroxychloroquine who’s effects are better done by dexamethasone anyway

We know there are very few effective treatments for coronavirus when you get severe disease.
Of those, The ones that may work in terms of effectiveness:
-Monoclonal antibody against the virus theoretically lowers your risk of hospitalization
-Remdesivir for reduction in viral load
-Dexamethasone reduces the hyperimmune response and has shown a slight improvement in mortality in severe cases
-Actemra is it interleukin 6 blocking antibody that has shown a slight reduction in time on ventilator and mortality in extremely sick patients and has shown a reduction in severity of infection and in increasing oxygen requirements in non-Ventilated patients
-Baricitinib in conjunction with Remdesivir showed a slight reduction in hospital days
-And combining dexamethasone with Remdesivir plus/minus Actemra likely provides our best chance for getting severely ill people on high levels of oxygen or on ventilator to get better, but it’s not much of a chance.

And we know every one of these drugs needs better research and more studies. Likely in the form of meta-analysis.

What has been well documented over and over again now is your best chance to survive Covid is to not get it or to already have the natural antibodies that you produced in response to a vaccine in your system ready to go, a.k.a. VACCINATION.

In addition we also know that the current surge in the Coronavirus pandemic is the worst we’ve seen to date and that hospitals across the country, particularly in the Southeast and Southwest, are inundated with coronavirus patients and running short on valuable resources, in particular doctors and nurses.

You guys act like this is controversial or some mystery and that we should say we really don’t know these things, but we do know these things and it has been shown in published study after published study after published study. Or it’s been reviewed by expert after expert after expert and put into several guidelines. We’re not gonna sit here and tell you we don’t know what we do know just because it doesn’t fit into your worldview.

You can learn from what we tell you or you can ignore it and call us arrogant and nitpick and attack the messenger because you damn sure have not been very effective it attacking the science.

@testy524 @SORT14 @dingyibvs @Tmi512 @Phenry44 @Uniformed_ReRe @BSC911 @jfegaly @GhostOfMatchesMalone @fatman76

..

You literally just did the exact same thing I'm complaining about and then posted a GIF that indicates you didn't read a damn word I wrote.

It's like trying to have a discussion with a See and Say. Pull the lever, get a canned response. Over and over and over and over.

I get the positive side of the vaccines. I really do. What are the risks?

And don't tell me Covid, I know that too. I know how many people - without adjusting for comorbidities - have died in my age bracket. I know it can affect you for the rest of your life if you get a bad case. I know the NE is going to have a fall wave like you're having in the SE. I've had enough fear porn thrown at me to last a lifetime.

 

[jfegaly]

You literally just did the exact same thing I'm complaining about and then posted a GIF that indicates you didn't read a damn word I wrote.

It's like trying to have a discussion with a See and Say. Pull the lever, get a canned response. Over and over and over and over.

He is trolling again. It’s what he is. It’s why he tags his buddies and PMs folks. He has a mental health issue, which ironically, he accused ghost of having. He is a very insecure human being. That’s why he PMs and runs to others (tagging) for the validation of his posts.

Pride comes before the fall.

Wonder how that RSV vaccine is working on the children he injected with it.

 

[fatman76]

From the CDC's own website:

"Immunity: Protection from an infectious disease. If you are immune to a disease, you can be exposed to it without becoming infected.

Vaccine: A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but can also be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

Vaccination: The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.

Immunization: A process by which a person becomes protected against a disease through vaccination. This term is often used interchangeably with vaccination or inoculation."

Immunization Basics | CDC

Immunization: The Basics

www.cdc.gov

You just said the vaccines REDUCE the risk of getting infected by covid.

Then that means, according to the CDC, that the shots don't give immunity.

Then by extension, these shots are NOT VACCINES.

Vaccines give immunity. Again, per the CDC. You just admitted that these shots DO NOT MAKE YOU IMMUNE TO COVID.

These are not vaccines. I'm sorry, but facts matter.

They do but there's also nuance. I think it goes back to the novel nature of this virus. If your immune system catches it too late and sort of "overreacts" you get a massive inflammatory response. I think that response is when lung, heart, liver, kidney and other tissues are severely affected and you end up at the hospital.

At the very least the vaccines do force your body to make antibodies that recognize the virus, giving you a better chance of starting the fight early. At the end of the day a shitty immune system is going to struggle with Covid regardless.

But the method they use to force your immune system to make the antibodies...is it safe long term? What other systems in your body does it effect? Where's the data on boosters - is it ok to just keep pumping spike protein forever?

The the fvcking question that every cott damn doctor I ask ignores...if you REALLY care about health, does that mean you only care about health for the short term? What happens if this backfires and we've got 200MM people with 15 shots of spike protein causing major illness in a decade? We know Covid isn't going away...this is a distinct possibility. Is anyone thinking past their nose on this issue?

edit: this is my last try @Tmi512 @gator1776 @testy524 - I know you're on the board, silence means you either don't know or really don't care

 

[testy524]

He is trolling again. It’s what he is. It’s why he tags his buddies and PMs folks. He has a mental health issue, which ironically, he accused ghost of having. He is a very insecure human being. That’s why he PMs and runs to others (tagging) for the validation of his posts.

Pride comes before the fall.

Wonder how that RSV vaccine is working on the children he injected with it.

The funniest part of this whole thread is you think he is tagging us for validation.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

And the hell of it is, I think @fatman76 is looking for a reason to TAKE the shot, but these goobs can't put their egos aside long enough to understand why he's asking for additional information. They take it as he's saying they are wrong.

"You can't question me, I'm a doctor! I dropped the mic, bitch!"