Derek Chauvin trial - what does the jury do?

[Gator Fever]

Just looking at a few bits about the trial it sounds like the Judge is being pretty nice to the prosecution letting them put an MMA guy on the stand to use the term "blood choke" etc. about him having his knee on his neck area like that.

Just curious what people think the jury is likely to do here. In a non-politically charged case (if the person who died was white) I would say there is almost no chance he was convicted of even manslaughter with what the toxicology report shows with the high level of drugs and a lack of air not causing it. Haven't really read enough about it to know how easily a prosecution expert trying to say his knee and some weight being on that area was a cause also and if that could easily be dismissed as a real contributor to the cause of death by the defense medical expert. The other reason I say no conviction would happen in a non-political case is their actual training in that department called for using that to restrain combative people being arrested (at least when he was trained and maybe was still in there at the time of the arrest but I am not sure on that).

I do think this officer was one of those arrogant idiots we see quite a bit as police officers in recent years. Worked quite a bit with some officers in past years and you had a few idiots but not nearly the numbers you see now imo. Just for appearance reasons if nothing else he should have got his knee off his neck area when he was saying he couldn't breathe whether he thought or knew the guy was overdosing on some swallowed drugs.

Having said all that I think because this is such a politically charged case the jury is going to find him guilty of that 3rd degree murder charge or some manslaughter charge just to appease the mob and will say the prosecution medical expert convinced them he wouldn't have died and could have been saved if not for his knee being on his neck like that and that he should have known that. While the actual truth is that could never be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[fatman76]

1) I can't believe they found 12 people who haven't already made up their minds...has to be the biggest collection of mom's basement weirdos this side of my friends
2) They wildly overcharged him, I think 3rd degree is possible but a stretch, 2nd degree isn't going to be remotely possible from what I know
3) The points you mention above - toxicology, training Chauvin likely rec'd and the events leading up the horrible knee on the neck that were largely Floyd struggling and the cops trying to negotiate with him...I'll just say if I owned a home or business in a major city I'd start buying plywood and fire extinguishers. Even if they get a conviction on 3rd when the mob hears he gets 15 years with 10 deferred it's going to be chaos in the streets.

 

[gatordad3]

it's going to be chaos in the streets.

In Minneapolis? That's nothing new. Just another liberal sh!thole city run by a Soy Boy Mayor who wears Hilary Clinton socks.

 

[NavigatorII]

I told some friends he deserves some credit for the assist but not the bucket. The guy was both drunk and drugged out. From what footage I've seen, he was a danger to himself, raising hell, kicking windows after being locked into the back of the squad car and that's how he ended up in the street face down. It took 3 to restrain him at one point.

Were it me, I'd have zip tied him to a lamp post and waited for the EMTs to arrive to inject him with horse tranquilizer, then shipped him strapped to a gurney. But's that's just me.

 

[NavigatorII]

In Minneapolis? That's nothing new. Just another liberal sh!thole city run by a Soy Boy Mayor who wears Hilary Clinton socks.

I couldn't care less. Minneapolis gets the governance they voted for and deserve. Bring tear gas and water cannons, they'll cool off soon enough. If not, bring out the 50 caliber standing guns.

 

[DCandtheUTBand]

He ODed and there was no injuries to the neck. He was a deadman the minute he swallowed the Fentanyl.

Not guilty!

I oppose choke holds but that is a matter for legislatures to hash out not juries in hyper political settings where people want a scalp.

Chuavin doesn't need to have a badge but IMO he isn't guilty of a crime.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Is the defense calling Amy Klobachar to the stand?

 

[BillCutting4585]

I couldn't care less. Minneapolis gets the governance they voted for and deserve. Bring tear gas and water cannons, they'll cool off soon enough. If not, bring out the 50 caliber standing guns.

 

[gatordad3]

Is the defense calling Amy Klobachar to the stand?

Too bad nobody in Minnesota has the nads to ask why she never fired Chauvin when he killed a Native American about 14 years ago.

 

[BillCutting4585]

Too bad nobody in Minnesota has the nads to ask why she never fired Chauvin when he killed a Native American about 14 years ago.

Speaking of Klobachar, she’s disappeared

 

[BamaFan1137]

1) I can't believe they found 12 people who haven't already made up their minds...has to be the biggest collection of mom's basement weirdos this side of my friends
2) They wildly overcharged him, I think 3rd degree is possible but a stretch, 2nd degree isn't going to be remotely possible from what I know
3) The points you mention above - toxicology, training Chauvin likely rec'd and the events leading up the horrible knee on the neck that were largely Floyd struggling and the cops trying to negotiate with him...I'll just say if I owned a home or business in a major city I'd start buying plywood and fire extinguishers. Even if they get a conviction on 3rd when the mob hears he gets 15 years with 10 deferred it's going to be chaos in the streets.

Should be convicted of 3rd imo. Given Minnesota law, 2nd is possible due to recent precedent...but that's an overcharge.

Given the political climate, it will not surprise me at all no matter what he is convicted of.

Yep, Floyd killed himself with fentanyl. However, Chauvin had a duty to protect and he failed in that regard, miserably. That's 3rd in my book.

 

[kalimgoodman]

He's guilty. The other 3, not so much.

 

[Gator Fever]

Should be convicted of 3rd imo. Given Minnesota law, 2nd is possible due to recent precedent...but that's an overcharge.

Given the political climate, it will not surprise me at all no matter what he is convicted of.

Yep, Floyd killed himself with fentanyl. However, Chauvin had a duty to protect and he failed in that regard, miserably. That's 3rd in my book.

What if he didn't have his knee on him like that - should he be guilty then in your opinion?

 

[DCandtheUTBand]

Should be convicted of 3rd imo. Given Minnesota law, 2nd is possible due to recent precedent...but that's an overcharge.

Given the political climate, it will not surprise me at all no matter what he is convicted of.

Yep, Floyd killed himself with fentanyl. However, Chauvin had a duty to protect and he failed in that regard, miserably. That's 3rd in my book.

How does he protect a man that has fatally ODed? The ambulance was called and on the way. Is he supposed to wave a magic wand and resurrect the guy?

 

[kalimgoodman]

Too bad nobody in Minnesota has the nads to ask why she never fired Chauvin when he killed a Native American about 14 years ago.

Why are you making this about Amy? Man I don't get some of you. So determined to make everything political.

 

[BillCutting4585]

Why are you making this about Amy? Man I don't get some of you. So determined to make everything political.

Chain of events brotha. Klobachar should have charged Chauvin when she was the DA in a shooting of an Native American. Chauvin most like wouldn’t be a cop, which leads to Chauvin not being at the Floyd crime scene. Chances are a different cop makes different decisions that could have save Floyd or Floyd still OD’s and it’s a non story.

 

[gatordad3]

Why are you making this about Amy? Man I don't get some of you. So determined to make everything political.

An incident the liberal media conveniently ignores, but I guess Native Americans getting killed by cops just ain't good enough.

Chain of events brotha. Klobachar should have charged Chauvin when she was the DA in a shooting of an Native American. Chauvin most like wouldn’t be a cop, which leads to Chauvin not being at the Floyd crime scene. Chances are a different cop makes different decisions that could have save Floyd or Floyd still OD’s and it’s a non story.

I have to say George Floyd had one hell of a funeral.

 

[Orangeclad]

George Floyd was the dem golden ticket. Ask every dem in congress if they wish George Floyd had never died and they will tell you, of course, they wish he hadn't died. Now guess how many would be truthful. I would say ZERO.

 

[kalimgoodman]

Chain of events brotha. Klobachar should have charged Chauvin when she was the DA in a shooting of an Native American. Chauvin most like wouldn’t be a cop, which leads to Chauvin not being at the Floyd crime scene. Chances are a different cop makes different decisions that could have save Floyd or Floyd still OD’s and it’s a non story.

O I get that but why are we talking about her right now. If this is about the trial, why bring up political stuff? She literally is not in this trial at all.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

The dem posing as an indy wants to defend the dem.

Huh.

Honest question: Has any 'indepdendent' voter here EVER just decided to defend Trump or ANY republican? I mean, they invent reasons to defend dems out of thin air.

Then get offended when you claim they aren't independent.

 

[gatordad3]

The dem posing as an indy wants to defend the dem.

Huh.

Honest question: Has any 'indepdendent' voter here EVER just decided to defend Trump or ANY republican? I mean, they invent reasons to defend dems out of thin air.

Then get offended when you claim they aren't independent.

Neither of us will ever find an Indy not defend libtardation.

 

[fatman76]

He's guilty. The other 3, not so much.

No one says he’s not. Of what is the question.

 

[BCSpell]

He's guilty. The other 3, not so much.

This is the tough question. Didn’t the other 3 just stand there.

 

[greyghost14]

Is he supposed to wave a magic wand and resurrect the guy?

Why not, Snape did it for Draco on the flooded bathroom floor in The Halfblood Prince.
Apparently this Chauvin guy must be a muggle.

 

[kalimgoodman]

This is the tough question. Didn’t the other 3 just stand there.

Pretty much

 

[DCandtheUTBand]

Why not, Snape did it for Draco on the flooded bathroom floor in The Halfblood Prince.
Apparently this Chauvin guy must be a muggle.

Yes he is a douchebag muggle.

An ambulance was called and the criminal died of an OD. IMO his death was UNPREVENTABLE once he took those drugs at that dose.

Apparently Chauvin is responsible because of the bad optics and because the guy died in his custody.

They should have propped ole George up, given him cotton candy, a funnel cake and some coca cola while he suffered the inevitable heart attack and death from fentanyl. It was a dose that was going to kill him short of Christ's intervention.

If I thought jack@ss' knee had killed Georgie then I would say sure put him in jail.

Nothing Chauvin did or did not do caused Floyd's death.

He ODed.

 

[BamaFan1137]

What if he didn't have his knee on him like that - should he be guilty then in your opinion?

Great question. The knee looks horrible, and it was, but Chauvin should have been trying to get him help as soon as he arrived on scene. He was a 19 year vet. He knew what he was looking at.

Now the irony. If Chauvin gets him the help, imo (I'm not a doctor) Floyd still dies. He had a buttload of fentanyl in him. Naloxone would have helped in the short term but he would have required MULTIPLE doses to prevent cardiac arrest. It's very effective but very short-lived. The Naloxone would have kept wearing off long before the fentanyl had.

He literally took enough fentanyl to kill a horse. A few horses probably.

BTW to answer your question, without the knee Chauvin probably isn't charged. Very unlikely imo.

 

[BamaFan1137]

How does he protect a man that has fatally ODed? The ambulance was called and on the way. Is he supposed to wave a magic wand and resurrect the guy?

The ambulance was not called immediately and Floyd did not stop breathing for quite some time after Chauvin arrived and dropped a knee.

You and I have disagreed on this subject for some time. That's fine. Look up "deliberate indifference" from a legal standpoint. If that doesn't change your opinion, that's fine too.

 

[BamaFan1137]

This is the tough question. Didn’t the other 3 just stand there.

Agree. The two guys who were brand new on the job, I'd probably give them a pass.

 

[BamaFan1137]

Agree. The two guys who were brand new on the job, I'd probably give them a pass.

OTOH, even as a rookie, I could not have sat there and watched him die.

Now maybe if I didn't understand what was happening to him...but that’s hard to imagine. When I watched the video the first time, I knew immediately what was happening.

 

[BillCutting4585]

Why not, Snape did it for Draco on the flooded bathroom floor in The Halfblood Prince.
Apparently this Chauvin guy must be a muggle.

 

[DCandtheUTBand]

The ambulance was not called immediately and Floyd did not stop breathing for quite some time after Chauvin arrived and dropped a knee.

You and I have disagreed on this subject for some time. That's fine. Look up "deliberate indifference" from a legal standpoint. If that doesn't change your opinion, that's fine too.

Incompetence even for a 19 year veteran with a chip on his shoulder. The ambulance was called either right before Chauvin arrived or shortly after. He followed protocol.

One of the guys asked about having him restrained and Chauvin replied it was for Floyd's safety. I think he was wrong there ( incompetent).

On video from an officer cam he expressed surprise when told there was no pulse. Again if I had my choice he never wears a badge again but I would not convict him of a crime.

And you admitted above he had enough fentynal to kill him many times over and intervention with counter drugs isnt going to save him.

Did those cops even carry those doses? Obviously the ambulance arrives too late. So we are back to the knee. Heck its the thing that had me wanting to hang the guy for weeks after the incident.

Once I heard about the drugs and the OD this member of the jury of public opinion voted to acquit. But the real jury will decide.

 

[BCSpell]

Incompetence even for a 19 year veteran with a chip on his shoulder. The ambulance was called either right before Chauvin arrived or shortly after. He followed protocol.

One of the guys asked about having him restrained and Chauvin replied it was for Floyd's safety. I think he was wrong there ( incompetent).

On video from an officer cam he expressed surprise when told there was no pulse. Again if I had my choice he never wears a badge again but I would not convict him of a crime.

And you admitted above he had enough fentynal to kill him many times over and intervention with counter drugs isnt going to save him.

Did those cops even carry those doses? Obviously the ambulance arrives too late. So we are back to the knee. Heck its the thing that had me wanting to hang the guy for weeks after the incident.

Once I heard about the drugs and the OD this member of the jury of public opinion voted to acquit. But the real jury will decide.

After the City "admitted guilt" , before the trial, with their $27 Million settlement, if he is acquited, the riot won't be contained for months and will happen in every large city in America. The jury knows this. I beleive no matter what evidence is provided, there will be no acquittal.

 

[gatordad3]

The flaming fudge packer Don Lemon with the fake tears

 

[BillCutting4585]

The flaming fudge packer Don Lemon with the fake tears

View embedded media

He’s such a cuck

He can take his fake tears and white supremacy bull shit and stick them in his ass... literally

 

[JIMBO1313]

Because of the knee on the neck, the pleading " I can't breathe" comment I do not believe that he get's away scot free, I look for a manslaughter conviction, if for no other reason that so many feel he is guilty. It is hard to ignore the picture of the knee on the neck and failure to remove the knee when it does not appear to be necessary. Politically, to release him would, in my opinion cause a s__t storm and many others could die.

 

[BillCutting4585]

@BamaFan1137 here are some close ups of the knee. Looks more on the upper back in these pics. How would this relate to not being able to breathe?

 

[BamaFan1137]

Because of the knee on the neck, the pleading " I can't breathe" comment I do not believe that he get's away scot free, I look for a manslaughter conviction, if for no other reason that so many feel he is guilty. It is hard to ignore the picture of the knee on the neck and failure to remove the knee when it does not appear to be necessary. Politically, to release him would, in my opinion cause a s__t storm and many others could die.

We agree and we disagree.

Convicting him due to mob mentality? That's not justice. Convict him based on the facts and merits of the case or DO NOT convict him at all. Know this...I'm no fan of Chauvin but I am absolutely a fan of justice.

Also, if I had a nickel for every time I heard, "I can't breathe" I would have a lot of nickels. Sometimes that means the person is struggling to breathe. Sometimes that means the person doesn't wish to be arrested or in that place anymore...they would rather get up and go home.

Most times it means, "I'm scared and I'm freaking the hell out...please help me."

**edit** "I can't breathe" CAN also be a ploy where the subject is at a disadvantage and they are trying to regain an advantage...to the officer's detriment. Being as Floyd was handcuffed, that seems unlikely in this case.

In any event, once someone is in my custody, it is my duty to ACCURATELY figure out which one of the above is happening and adjust accordingly. In this regard, Chauvin failed...to his everlasting shame.

Now the courts must decide if he is guilty of a crime. IMHO, outside looking in, it looks like 3rd Degree Murder (Manslaughter).

 

[BamaFan1137]

@BamaFan1137 here are some close ups of the knee. Looks more on the upper back in these pics. How would this relate to not being able to breathe?

His knee certainly did not close his airway. For some time now that has been beyond question.

But even that knee position, given time and Floyd's condition (fentanyl, heart disease, Covid and excited delirium), that knee very likely contributed to his death.

Even in the event that it did not, Chauvin should have recognized that his detainee was in distress. If he had simply made an attempt to render aid....what a difference that would have made.

 

[BillCutting4585]

His knee certainly did not close his airway. For some time now that has been beyond question.

But even that knee position, given time and Floyd's condition (fentanyl, heart disease, Covid and excited delirium), that knee very likely contributed to his death.

Even in the event that it did not, Chauvin should have recognized that his detainee was in distress. If he had simply made an attempt to render aid....what a difference that would have made.

I agree, I wanted your take from a professional point of view. Sadly, if Chauvin doesn’t get the chair, riots will occur.