“Oh Dear Creator of Heaven and Earth...”

[regator]

I have no problem with people who don't believe in God.
However I have no respect in someone who gets off on their own perceived intelligence enjoying rubbing it in those who believe faces that they are too intelligent to believe in a God. Have some grace man.
I got news for you.
I know people way smarter than you who do believe.

 

[passoverGator]

Ever played telephone as a kid? Things get misshapen or lost in the retelling ten minutes after being told.

That would be concerning if the Bible originated from men.

 

[instaGATOR]

f-numbers, you seem like,,, well,,, to quote Roseanna Roseannadana, "nev-ver minnee...."

Your own preaching that there 'Ain't No God' affects me no more than those other dogmatic religious leader's demands that I believe in whoever their specific God is. I have my own 'soul' to address those questions with, and the answers that I come to are my own, to do with as I see fit.

The questions on 'is there a human soul or not' are almost as difficult as 'is there a Creator GOD' that initiated the 'infinite universe' or not? I don't buy that he watches over us all, everyday and in every way. That some draw comfort by believing that he does, seems harmless and it's okay with me.

My own lifetime conclusions come to this (at this moment in time):
~ The Universe is Infinite.
~ Humans do have an immortal Soul.
~ There is an all creator GOD (for lack of a better word).
~ Religious DOGMA, be it for or against there being a GOD or not, stinks on ice.
~ Fighting Wars over the answer to that question is the human epitome of stupidity imoho.
~ Just as threatening me with HELL, or with with the eternal nothingness, is stupid.

I don't care what you 'don't believe,' just like I don't care what ocala 'does believe.' I don't need either of you, or either of your positions, to form my own. I have formed and reformed mine constantly over my entire life. And I continue to develop it, all on my own. It's just between me and my own version of a GOD to do, or not do.

I don't feel proud of him, nor do I feel sorry for you. You're both irrelevant to me and my own chosen positions/beliefs.
======

See an Alien or a UFO up close, and thereafter, what others believe won' t really matter to you any more.

Have a rock solid psychic experience for yourself, or better yet, several over a lifetime, and it will no longer matter to you what others don't believe.

Just like having a true 'transcendental God' experience will settle the God questions for you.

Never having had any of those experiences for yourself, anyone can be a bit handicapped in deciding what to believe, or not to believe. The average human experience in a nutshell...

 

[EvilWayz]

That would be concerning if the Bible originated from men.

And how many men have translated/mistranslated in the 2000 years since the divinely inspired text?

 

[MJWilliamson]

Every major religion claims that their religious texts were divinely inspired.

I think they are all right

 

[ocalaman]

GOOOOO GATORS!!!!!

 

[passoverGator]

And how many men have translated/mistranslated in the 2000 years since the divinely inspired text?

Jeremiah 1:12 says, “Then said the Lord to me, You have seen well, for I am alert and active, watching over My word to perform it.”

John 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever. Isaiah 40:8

So let us seize and hold fast and retain without wavering the hope we cherish and confess and our acknowledgement of it, for He Who promised is reliable (sure) and faithful to His word. Hebrews 10:23

Every word of God is tried and purified; He is a shield to those who trust and take refuge in Him. Proverbs 30:5

Matthew 4:4: But he answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

 

[EvilWayz]

Jeremiah 1:12 says, “Then said the Lord to me, You have seen well, for I am alert and active, watching over My word to perform it.”

John 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever. Isaiah 40:8

So let us seize and hold fast and retain without wavering the hope we cherish and confess and our acknowledgement of it, for He Who promised is reliable (sure) and faithful to His word. Hebrews 10:23

Every word of God is tried and purified; He is a shield to those who trust and take refuge in Him. Proverbs 30:5

Matthew 4:4: But he answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Council of Nicea, Council of Florence, Council of Trent all added and removed books from the Bible. That would indicate to me that men decided what was and wasn't the word.

It also doesn't account for apocrypha, or things that the gnostics might have snuck in there. It also doesn't account for plain old fraud.

 

[IrishPokerDog]

Council of Nicea, Council of Florence, Council of Trent all added and removed books from the Bible. That would indicate to me that men decided what was and wasn't the word.

It also doesn't account for apocrypha, or things that the gnostics might have snuck in there. It also doesn't account for plain old fraud.

The apocrypha wouldn’t have included any gnostic ideas, as the Gnostics were post Jesus and an AD movement, and all of the apocrypha are Old Testament tomes..... the one exception is Books of Baruch, which are only accepted by the Syriac Oriental church


Jus saying

 

[passoverGator]

Council of Nicea, Council of Florence, Council of Trent all added and removed books from the Bible. That would indicate to me that men decided what was and wasn't the word.

It also doesn't account for apocrypha, or things that the gnostics might have snuck in there. It also doesn't account for plain old fraud.

Since I’m not Catholic I don’t care what the Councils of Florence and Trent did, especially Trent since it was convened mainly to condemn Protestantism.

Since the Bible was written over a long time frame and by many different men, you can nitpick its authenticity beyond the point at which the cows come home, it really boils down to what faith you have. I believe that God inspired man to write the Word and the He watches over it so I’m not concerned with how old it is or what might get lost in translation. I read it as I think it was meant to be – that is, a roadmap from God on how we should live our life and how we can get to heaven. You either believe that the only way to eternal life is through the forgiveness of your sins through the sacrifice that Jesus made for all mankind on the cross, or you reject it.

Use less of your head Edub, and start thinking with your heart.

 

[instaGATOR]

Council of Nicea, Council of Florence, Council of Trent all added and removed books from the Bible. That would indicate to me that men decided what was and wasn't the word.

It also doesn't account for apocrypha, or things that the gnostics might have snuck in there. It also doesn't account for plain old fraud.

Why was the 'Book of Enoch' removed?
Why have the 'Dead Sea Scrolls' not been added?

Or the reasons that ole King James of England had his own version translated from the Latin and written in English by his court scribes... (Pope-$$$)

Protestant = Protesters of the Pope/Catholic versions.
The Pope had his version written from the Hebrew Torah.
And so on and so on, going back thousands of years.

BTW - About 6.000 years ago, the Sumerians had flood stories that later appear in the Bible. Many of the Bible stories are a lot older than just 2-3 thousand years, and they have passed through many hands to get to today.
Of course, that does not invalidate any of the versions, nor GOD.

JMOHO's and nothing more, each to his/her own, but there is a difference between the Word of GOD, and the words of the gods....

But at least in America, for now anyway, we are all still allowed to believe or not believe, as we each choose.

 

[alaskanseminole]

I've always found it interesting that, from a purely historical perspective, historians give so much credence to the works of others which are significantly less represented/preserved (Iliad, Pliny, Tacitus, etc.), but often discard the Bible which is the most preserved manuscript in the known world. By secular standards, Luke should be the most renowned Historian ever.

For me, the Bible itself; especially Jesus's teachings, has never been the issue. Man and its fabricated "religion" has always been the issue.

 

[EvilWayz]

You either believe that the only way to eternal life is through the forgiveness of your sins through the sacrifice that Jesus made for all mankind on the cross, or you reject it.

Every Xian should think like this. As I stated several pages ago, if you have proof you don't need faith, and faith is the whole point.

 

[EvilWayz]

The apocrypha wouldn’t have included any gnostic ideas, as the Gnostics were post Jesus and an AD movement, and all of the apocrypha are Old Testament tomes..... the one exception is Books of Baruch, which are only accepted by the Syriac Oriental church


Jus saying

I shouldn't debate when I've been drinking. Was my understanding the reason the Apocrypha don't appear in the Protestant bible is because it contained suspect texts, possibly of pagan influence.

 

[IrishPokerDog]

I shouldn't debate when I've been drinking. Was my understanding the reason the Apocrypha don't appear in the Protestant bible is because it contained suspect texts, possibly of pagan influence.

How certain books became apocryphal or accepted is a study unto itself. For example; Protestants don’t include Maccabees 1 & 2, which cover the time after Jewish return from exile but before Jesus....the general accepted reason that these Old Testament texts are excluded was that the Jewish community generally rejected them.....

..... BUT, you can see in the texts why Jews might not like the books as the Maccabean revolt against the Hellenistic Selucids received pledges and mutual cooperation treaties with the Romans, for which they talked highly of the Romans in that literature ......

..... but burning down the Jewish Temple 200 years later kinda left a bad taste for Romans later for some strange reason

 

[instaGATOR]

I've always found it interesting that, from a purely historical perspective, historians give so much credence to the works of others which are significantly less represented/preserved (Iliad, Pliny, Tacitus, etc.), but often discard the Bible which is the most preserved manuscript in the known world. By secular standards, Luke should be the most renowned Historian ever.

For me, the Bible itself; especially Jesus's teachings, has never been the issue. Man and its fabricated "religion" has always been the issue.

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There are Billions in the World that probably don't agree with you on the claim of the Bible being "the most preserved manuscript in the known world."

Like maybe those in India, the birthplace of four of the world's major religions; namely Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism.

Hinduism has been called the oldest religion in the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

 

[EvilWayz]

There are Billions in the World that probably don't agree with you on the claim of the Bible being "the most preserved manuscript in the known world."

Like maybe those in India, the birthplace of four of the world's major religions; namely Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism.

Hinduism has been called the oldest religion in the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

In addition to the Rigveda ( India):

Epic of Gilgamesh, Egyptian Book of the Dead, Zoroastrian Texts, and the Institution of Amenemope.

 

[instaGATOR]

Most 'World Religions' don't promote GOD imo, they promote themselves, and whether on purpose or not, they put people against each other in some of the most un-GODLY ways.

The gods have contributed to human development, all over the world at different times going back for 10's or even 100's of thousands of years. What I grew up hearing were just 'myths and legends' (including many Bible stories) are being proven and/or verified by modern 'open-minded' archaeology on a constant basis.

Human's past on Earth is very much larger and older than I was brought up to believe, and both 'religious and institutionalized history' seem opposed to moving forward with their thinking and positions.

I'm now, and have been for some time now, 'outside of their box' on what real is, and I have no intentions of willingly putting myself back in 'their' box(s).

In my own frame of reference, I don't need organized religion with a Pope, or a Preacher, or a Guru to experience GOD. I asked a lot of annoying questions when I was growing up, most of them never answered, so I went on to read and learn and think on my own.

That seems to have worked out okay for me, but again, each to his own.