“Oh Dear Creator of Heaven and Earth...”
- Thread starter sadgator
- Start date
Prove to me that witches don't exist.
Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine. --- Sir Arthur Eddington
Not only is that quote dumb, it’s also dumb.
No. You are a UK fan. That is an automatic disqualification for a Mensa membership.
Anyone who i sit down and have a legitimate convo with about this either says im right or i just need "faith". There is no factual evidence that any of us have seen.
I call bullshit. If you were a genius, even a stable one, you would not be a UK fan!Nah, genius by natural selection, UK fan by grace of God
Even smart people can be masochistic with regards to sports (see Chicago population cf Cubs until just last year)
There once was a goater named dunny,
who was always trying to be funny.
But with his head up his butt,
and a load of beer in his gutt,
when it came to the girls he got nunny...
Lol you can’t even post a picture correctly.
Gay.
I can tell you that Hawking has been proven wrong on black holes because the supposed Hawking Radiation that is given off to his theory that there would not be enough radiation left to even create a black hole. I know I don’t talk about my past but I was a Nuclear, Biological and Chemical NCO in the military for 10 years and can tell you that Hawking has been proven wrong by others.
The problem with people use math to understand things and I can tell you the greatest mathematician is the creator of everything we see.
One way to disprove man theories is most of them say that the Universe is nothing but
chaos but whenever I view everything and even through my telescope into space I see an order to everything. What we may call chaos really is just an imagination. Pooof!!!!!
I’m not religious, but I do go to church. Religion is a man made word made up by people who doesn’t believe whatsoever then others took ahold of that word and use it for their own gain. But I after 29 years working in the fields of NBC, Information Technology and even a Astronomy as a hobby I came to the conclusion on my own that there is a creator. If people would just test what Einstein and many others before him gave us and do the calculations they would hopefully see the same conclusion.
Scientists are meant to be wrong. That is why they are called scientists. As one of the greatest once said;
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts"
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts"
Dude, being an NBC NCO has exactly dick to do with theory. Conducting annual gas mask training and keeping the NBC supplies up to date has what to do with any of Hawking's work? Put up or shut up.
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People are far too binary. If there is a God, and I do believe that there is, then clearly He created the universe in such a way that is understandable by humans, who He also created.
That a brilliant man like Stephen Hawkings insists that the laws of nature are the only necessary things needed to explain a pre-Universe singularity and the quantum tunneling needed to produce a Big Bang is fine. But right now, it is just opinion. Neither the Big Bang nor all laws of nature are completely understood by us. But I have no doubt that they *are* understandable, and that God intends for us to understand them.
That a brilliant man like Stephen Hawkings insists that the laws of nature are the only necessary things needed to explain a pre-Universe singularity and the quantum tunneling needed to produce a Big Bang is fine. But right now, it is just opinion. Neither the Big Bang nor all laws of nature are completely understood by us. But I have no doubt that they *are* understandable, and that God intends for us to understand them.
I would like to post that the originator of the Big Bang theory was a Belgium priest
...... jus’ saying
...... jus’ saying
GOD = The word used for the initiator of everything in humanities observable universe.
gods = Those that spread life across the observable universe.
angles = Some kind of a sub-set of the gods.
demons = Bad angles, from the humans point of view.
aliens = The newer gods that humans don't recognize as having been involved in the past with the humans on the Earth.
Human Beliefs (including all religions) = Whatever you decide on believing, for whatever reasons...
I hope that has helped...
gods = Those that spread life across the observable universe.
angles = Some kind of a sub-set of the gods.
demons = Bad angles, from the humans point of view.
aliens = The newer gods that humans don't recognize as having been involved in the past with the humans on the Earth.
Human Beliefs (including all religions) = Whatever you decide on believing, for whatever reasons...
I hope that has helped...
There is ZERO proof that god created a the universe and humans other than a book written hundreds and hundreds of yrs ago.
QUESTION: Is there any proof that God exists?
ANSWER:
Is there any proof that God exists? Whenever this question comes up, I am always reminded of Thomas in the Bible who would not believe that Jesus was alive until he could touch Him. That is the same analogy many people use today when it comes to answering the question “Is there any proof that God exists?” They want physical proof for something that must be taken on faith value.
It takes greater faith to believe that an unseen God exists than it does to just dismiss Him because you cannot physically confirm that He is there. For those who deal in evidence there is proof all around you and inside of you that God does exist.
Is there any proof that God exists? Take a good look around. When most people look at the world around them, they see only the trees; they do not see the forest that is there. It should be obvious that God exists because of His creation, not only us humans, but the world we live in, the galaxy that world is in, and the universe that the galaxy is in.
Our universe contains too much order for our existence to have been created out of chaos. We are complex beyond our imaginations and when you look at such a complexity, you see God and His creation.
Is there any proof that God exists? Take a good look inside yourself. Most people fail to look inside themselves for God. Instead, they look to their surroundings and conclude that since the world is such a mess, God must not be there, if He ever existed at all. They forget that since God created us, we bear His fingerprints and those fingerprints point to His existence.
First, we are all born with an innate knowledge of what is right and wrong. Even a young child knows that when they misbehave they are doing something that goes against their parents’ wishes. The knowledge of good and evil comes from God. It was put there to keep us in balance and to allow us to understand why we need to come to God for forgiveness.
Second, we have a desire to seek love. Our whole life is spent trying to fill a gap that exists in our souls; a gap that only be filled by the love of God. No matter what we do to try and fill this gap -- money drugs, alcohol, sex, possessions -- the hole will never be filled until we turn back to God and accept His Son as our Savior and Lord.
These are only two of the inward feelings that should tell us that we are more than just some random mistake of nature; that we are created, that a real God that created us, and that He is still there watching over us.
Is there any proof that God exists? Take a good look at His Son, Jesus Christ. All we need to do is take a good look at the life of Jesus to see that He was a man, but more than a man, He was God. When was the last time you saw a man walk on water, calm a storm, or make a man rise from the dead? Even Jesus Himself conquered death and rose again to ascend to Heaven.
Think about the impact that Jesus has had on this world from the very moment of His birth; the way His life, death and resurrection have shaped world history, changed lives, and healed souls. No mere man could do this so we must say as the Roman soldier did at His crucifixion, “Surely this is the Son of God.”
Philosophy says that our existence is based on that which we perceive existence to be. It is even suggested that maybe we do not exist as we think we do here, but on a different plane of reasoning not yet known to us. As God’s creation, we know God is real; all we have to do is take a good look.
P.S. - I did not write this. I copied it from a website, with no author given. But what is says makes perfect sense to me.
ANSWER:
Is there any proof that God exists? Whenever this question comes up, I am always reminded of Thomas in the Bible who would not believe that Jesus was alive until he could touch Him. That is the same analogy many people use today when it comes to answering the question “Is there any proof that God exists?” They want physical proof for something that must be taken on faith value.
It takes greater faith to believe that an unseen God exists than it does to just dismiss Him because you cannot physically confirm that He is there. For those who deal in evidence there is proof all around you and inside of you that God does exist.
Is there any proof that God exists? Take a good look around. When most people look at the world around them, they see only the trees; they do not see the forest that is there. It should be obvious that God exists because of His creation, not only us humans, but the world we live in, the galaxy that world is in, and the universe that the galaxy is in.
Our universe contains too much order for our existence to have been created out of chaos. We are complex beyond our imaginations and when you look at such a complexity, you see God and His creation.
Is there any proof that God exists? Take a good look inside yourself. Most people fail to look inside themselves for God. Instead, they look to their surroundings and conclude that since the world is such a mess, God must not be there, if He ever existed at all. They forget that since God created us, we bear His fingerprints and those fingerprints point to His existence.
First, we are all born with an innate knowledge of what is right and wrong. Even a young child knows that when they misbehave they are doing something that goes against their parents’ wishes. The knowledge of good and evil comes from God. It was put there to keep us in balance and to allow us to understand why we need to come to God for forgiveness.
Second, we have a desire to seek love. Our whole life is spent trying to fill a gap that exists in our souls; a gap that only be filled by the love of God. No matter what we do to try and fill this gap -- money drugs, alcohol, sex, possessions -- the hole will never be filled until we turn back to God and accept His Son as our Savior and Lord.
These are only two of the inward feelings that should tell us that we are more than just some random mistake of nature; that we are created, that a real God that created us, and that He is still there watching over us.
Is there any proof that God exists? Take a good look at His Son, Jesus Christ. All we need to do is take a good look at the life of Jesus to see that He was a man, but more than a man, He was God. When was the last time you saw a man walk on water, calm a storm, or make a man rise from the dead? Even Jesus Himself conquered death and rose again to ascend to Heaven.
Think about the impact that Jesus has had on this world from the very moment of His birth; the way His life, death and resurrection have shaped world history, changed lives, and healed souls. No mere man could do this so we must say as the Roman soldier did at His crucifixion, “Surely this is the Son of God.”
Philosophy says that our existence is based on that which we perceive existence to be. It is even suggested that maybe we do not exist as we think we do here, but on a different plane of reasoning not yet known to us. As God’s creation, we know God is real; all we have to do is take a good look.
P.S. - I did not write this. I copied it from a website, with no author given. But what is says makes perfect sense to me.
First off, it's ten's of thousand of years, through many translations, with adds and subtractions at virtually every stage, and that's just with the KJB version.
You need to broaden your scope quite a bit imo.
There are many other books about one God or another, and very many other groups of people with oral histories that don't include books.
The interesting thing to me, is that the vast majority of people from all over the Earth and throughout all of time, do believe in something that the word GOD is applied to. That just seems more than a simple coincidence to me...
I offer this link for those seriously interested in learning if The Bible is truly from God. There is ample evidence:
https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-1-bible-word-god
https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-1-bible-word-god
Did you bother to read this? It contains not one shred of definitive proof, only huge assumptions and inferences.
1. Look up the word entropy.
2. There are plenty of moral people that don't believe in an deity whatsoever. If you need a deity to tell you not to molest little kids or drown kittens for fun, that tells me more about you than god.
3. The first mention of Jesus of Nazareth was recorded 80 years after his death. Ever played telephone as a kid? Things get misshapen or lost in the retelling ten minutes after being told.
Never said you did, as that comment wasn’t expressly directed at you....
.... but I see you DO express “beliefs”, I just don’t know why you can’t admit that you possess a “belief” in the lack of (a) god(s) instead of portraying the absence of god(s) as fact (though heartily unproven)
Xians need to stop trying to prove the existence of God. Faith by definition is belief in absence of proof. If you could prove God and or Jesus exists, you wouldn't need faith, and faith is the cornerstone on which being saved rests.
“We may ignore, but we can nowhere evade the presence of God. The world is crowded with Him. He walks everywhere incognito.” -- C.S. Lewis
“But for my faith in God, I should have been a raving maniac.” -- Mahatma Gandhi - non-Christian
“Because God is with you all the time, no place is any closer to God than the place where you are right now.” -- Rick Warren
“I’ve read the last page of the Bible. It’s all going to turn out all right.” -- Billy Graham
"If God had wanted me to believe, then he should have supplied me with better proofs." -- Bertrand Russell -- The Nobel Prize-winning philosopher, mathematician and peace activist that claimed to be an Agnostic. He would have been happy to believe, he just wanted more proof first...
"Religious Dogma leaders would have you abandon your own moral compass and soul, to become slaves to their own stated ideas about what it is that GOD wants from you." -- iG
The worst trouble for humanity as a whole comes when anyone, or any group, attempts to force their own beliefs on to any other individual or group. This could very well be one of the main roots of true Evil....
Below are some of the many things that I've considered when the question of GOD came up. Food for thought anyway.
================
Traditional "proofs" of God's Existence
1) The argument from Design.
If you found a clock and examined the mechanism within it, you would probably think that this intricate mechanism was not the outcome of mere chance, that it had been designed.
Now look at the universe; is it possible that such an intricate mechanism, from the orbits of planets round the sun to the cells in your fingernails could all have happened by chance? Surely, this enormously complex mechanism has been designed, and the being that designed it must be God.
2) The ontological argument
God is the perfect being. As He is most perfect, He must have all perfections. If God lacked existence He would not be perfect, as He is perfect he must exist.
3) The cosmological argument (God as "First cause")
Everything that exists has a cause. However, there must at some time have been a cause prior to all other causes. This 'prime mover' or first cause is necessary to explain existence. This first cause is God.
Pascal's Wager
The French mathematician Blaise Pascal (1623-62) put forward an argument that would appeal to agnostics. (An agnostic is someone who believes that it is impossible to prove God's existence.)
His argument goes something like this: God either exists or he does not. If we believe in God and he exists, we will be rewarded with eternal bliss in heaven. If we believe in God and he does not exist then at worst all we have forgone is a few sinful pleasures.
If we do not believe in God and he does exist we may enjoy a few sinful pleasures, but we may face eternal damnation. If we do not believe in God and he does not exist then our sins will not be punished.
Would any rational gambler think that the experience of a few sinful pleasures is worth the risk of eternal damnation?
Kant
Kant attempted to show how philosophy could prove the existence of God. Unfortunately, for him his previous work showed that we could not know reality directly as thing-in-itself. What is real in itself is beyond our experience. Even if God exists, we can not know God as he really is.
For Kant the Christian could have faith in God, and this faith would be consonant with reason and the categorical imperative. Given that human beings have the autonomy to create moral values, it would not be irrational to believe in a God who gives purpose to the moral realm.
Hegel
Hegel thought that the God of religion was an intuition of Absolute Spirit or Geist. Hegel's Geist is not like the transcendent (outside of our consciousness) God of traditional Christianity. For Hegel God is immanent and when we have understood that history is the process of Geist coming to know itself it appears that we are all part of Geist, or God.
Feuerbach and Marx
For Feuerbach and Marx religion is seen as the projection of the human essence onto an ideal: God does not make man. Rather "God" is the invention of human consciousness. Marx also sees that religion is part of an ideological view that encourages the oppressed to accept their fate. As he says: "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the sentiment of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of men, is a demand for their real happiness. The call to abandon their illusions about their condition is a call to abandon a condition which requires illusions."
Søren Kierkegaard
Søren Kierkegaard (1813-1855) agreed with Kant that the existence of God could not be proven by reason. However Kierkegaard did not think that it was rational to believe in God, rather one should have faith in God even if this seems to reason to be absurd. To put it another way reason has no place in faith. God is beyond reason.
Kierkegaard is regarded as the first existentialist.
Nietzsche: The Death of God
"Have you not heard the madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market place and cried incessantly, 'I seek God!, I seek God!' ... Why, did he get lost? Said one. Did he lose his way like a child? Said another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? Or emigrated?... The madman jumped into their midst and pierced them with his glances.
"'Whither is God'? He cried. 'I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. All of us are his murderers...'"
"...the madman fell silent and looked again at his listeners; and they to were silent and stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern on the ground, and it broke and went out. 'I came too early,' he said then; 'my time has not come yet. This tremendous event is still on its way, still wandering -it has not yet reached the ears of man."
In these passages Nietzsche is showing the inevitable unfolding anthropocentrism (lit. putting man at the centre of the world) implicit in philosophy since Kant. If we view our existence through human categories, then our concept of God is itself a human creation.
Nietzsche is not simply asserting his atheism; he is suggesting that once we are aware that the concept of God is our own creation we can no longer base our religious and moral beliefs on any notion of a divine external reality.
In the period that Nietzsche was writing, the death of God was just beginning. Western thought was starting to face the prospect of a radical change in its orientation, and it wasn't quite ready to own up to it yet.
Kierkegaard and Nietzsche represent opposite reactions to the inability of rationality to give a rock solid theoretical proof of God's existence. Kierkegaard calls for us to embrace God even if it seems an absurdity, while Nietzsche says it is time for us to create a new mode of being, with human creativity at its centre.
The atheist existentialist Sartre accepted God's death and much of his writing is attempt to look at the human condition in a world that is without a prime mover who could have provided a basis and structure for the understanding of being.
The twentieth century
Anglo American analytic philosophers of the twentieth century have tended to agree that philosophy may help us clarify religious concepts, without giving us a secure foundation for religious belief.
Many people claim to have had a religious experience, to have experienced the divine directly. This experience is direct and is of a different quality to sensory experience or intellectual discovery, and therefore outside of the scope of philosophy.
The view that the existence of God cannot be proved or disproved by philosophy has not stopped developments in modern theology. Theologians are attempting to balance the anthropocentric view of God presented by philosophers since the Enlightenment with the need to provide a spiritual path and a guide to an ethical and meaningful way of life.
==============
Each to his own, and the freedom to do so, is a cornerstone of this 'God Bless America.' -- iG
“But for my faith in God, I should have been a raving maniac.” -- Mahatma Gandhi - non-Christian
“Because God is with you all the time, no place is any closer to God than the place where you are right now.” -- Rick Warren
“I’ve read the last page of the Bible. It’s all going to turn out all right.” -- Billy Graham
"If God had wanted me to believe, then he should have supplied me with better proofs." -- Bertrand Russell -- The Nobel Prize-winning philosopher, mathematician and peace activist that claimed to be an Agnostic. He would have been happy to believe, he just wanted more proof first...
"Religious Dogma leaders would have you abandon your own moral compass and soul, to become slaves to their own stated ideas about what it is that GOD wants from you." -- iG
The worst trouble for humanity as a whole comes when anyone, or any group, attempts to force their own beliefs on to any other individual or group. This could very well be one of the main roots of true Evil....
Below are some of the many things that I've considered when the question of GOD came up. Food for thought anyway.
================
Traditional "proofs" of God's Existence
1) The argument from Design.
If you found a clock and examined the mechanism within it, you would probably think that this intricate mechanism was not the outcome of mere chance, that it had been designed.
Now look at the universe; is it possible that such an intricate mechanism, from the orbits of planets round the sun to the cells in your fingernails could all have happened by chance? Surely, this enormously complex mechanism has been designed, and the being that designed it must be God.
2) The ontological argument
God is the perfect being. As He is most perfect, He must have all perfections. If God lacked existence He would not be perfect, as He is perfect he must exist.
3) The cosmological argument (God as "First cause")
Everything that exists has a cause. However, there must at some time have been a cause prior to all other causes. This 'prime mover' or first cause is necessary to explain existence. This first cause is God.
Pascal's Wager
The French mathematician Blaise Pascal (1623-62) put forward an argument that would appeal to agnostics. (An agnostic is someone who believes that it is impossible to prove God's existence.)
His argument goes something like this: God either exists or he does not. If we believe in God and he exists, we will be rewarded with eternal bliss in heaven. If we believe in God and he does not exist then at worst all we have forgone is a few sinful pleasures.
If we do not believe in God and he does exist we may enjoy a few sinful pleasures, but we may face eternal damnation. If we do not believe in God and he does not exist then our sins will not be punished.
Would any rational gambler think that the experience of a few sinful pleasures is worth the risk of eternal damnation?
Kant
Kant attempted to show how philosophy could prove the existence of God. Unfortunately, for him his previous work showed that we could not know reality directly as thing-in-itself. What is real in itself is beyond our experience. Even if God exists, we can not know God as he really is.
For Kant the Christian could have faith in God, and this faith would be consonant with reason and the categorical imperative. Given that human beings have the autonomy to create moral values, it would not be irrational to believe in a God who gives purpose to the moral realm.
Hegel
Hegel thought that the God of religion was an intuition of Absolute Spirit or Geist. Hegel's Geist is not like the transcendent (outside of our consciousness) God of traditional Christianity. For Hegel God is immanent and when we have understood that history is the process of Geist coming to know itself it appears that we are all part of Geist, or God.
Feuerbach and Marx
For Feuerbach and Marx religion is seen as the projection of the human essence onto an ideal: God does not make man. Rather "God" is the invention of human consciousness. Marx also sees that religion is part of an ideological view that encourages the oppressed to accept their fate. As he says: "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the sentiment of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of men, is a demand for their real happiness. The call to abandon their illusions about their condition is a call to abandon a condition which requires illusions."
Søren Kierkegaard
Søren Kierkegaard (1813-1855) agreed with Kant that the existence of God could not be proven by reason. However Kierkegaard did not think that it was rational to believe in God, rather one should have faith in God even if this seems to reason to be absurd. To put it another way reason has no place in faith. God is beyond reason.
Kierkegaard is regarded as the first existentialist.
Nietzsche: The Death of God
"Have you not heard the madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market place and cried incessantly, 'I seek God!, I seek God!' ... Why, did he get lost? Said one. Did he lose his way like a child? Said another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? Or emigrated?... The madman jumped into their midst and pierced them with his glances.
"'Whither is God'? He cried. 'I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. All of us are his murderers...'"
"...the madman fell silent and looked again at his listeners; and they to were silent and stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern on the ground, and it broke and went out. 'I came too early,' he said then; 'my time has not come yet. This tremendous event is still on its way, still wandering -it has not yet reached the ears of man."
In these passages Nietzsche is showing the inevitable unfolding anthropocentrism (lit. putting man at the centre of the world) implicit in philosophy since Kant. If we view our existence through human categories, then our concept of God is itself a human creation.
Nietzsche is not simply asserting his atheism; he is suggesting that once we are aware that the concept of God is our own creation we can no longer base our religious and moral beliefs on any notion of a divine external reality.
In the period that Nietzsche was writing, the death of God was just beginning. Western thought was starting to face the prospect of a radical change in its orientation, and it wasn't quite ready to own up to it yet.
Kierkegaard and Nietzsche represent opposite reactions to the inability of rationality to give a rock solid theoretical proof of God's existence. Kierkegaard calls for us to embrace God even if it seems an absurdity, while Nietzsche says it is time for us to create a new mode of being, with human creativity at its centre.
The atheist existentialist Sartre accepted God's death and much of his writing is attempt to look at the human condition in a world that is without a prime mover who could have provided a basis and structure for the understanding of being.
The twentieth century
Anglo American analytic philosophers of the twentieth century have tended to agree that philosophy may help us clarify religious concepts, without giving us a secure foundation for religious belief.
Many people claim to have had a religious experience, to have experienced the divine directly. This experience is direct and is of a different quality to sensory experience or intellectual discovery, and therefore outside of the scope of philosophy.
The view that the existence of God cannot be proved or disproved by philosophy has not stopped developments in modern theology. Theologians are attempting to balance the anthropocentric view of God presented by philosophers since the Enlightenment with the need to provide a spiritual path and a guide to an ethical and meaningful way of life.
==============
Each to his own, and the freedom to do so, is a cornerstone of this 'God Bless America.' -- iG
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Jesus Agnostic Mohammed Taoism!!!!!!!!
Insta do you have to filibuster EVERY SINGLE THREAD!??!???
Insta do you have to filibuster EVERY SINGLE THREAD!??!???
A-hole dog poker, do you need to follow me around and make your stupid personal attack posts every time, instead of just putting me on ignore where you'd never see another one of my posts,,, EVER?
(rhetorical, I know that you can't help being the boards biggest A-hole)
(rhetorical, I know that you can't help being the boards biggest A-hole)
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“We may ignore, but we can nowhere evade the presence of God. The world is crowded with Him. He walks everywhere incognito.” -- C.S. Lewis
“But for my faith in God, I should have been a raving maniac.” -- Mahatma Gandhi - non-Christian
“Because God is with you all the time, no place is any closer to God than the place where you are right now.” -- Rick Warren
“I’ve read the last page of the Bible. It’s all going to turn out all right.” -- Billy Graham
"If God had wanted me to believe, then he should have supplied me with better proofs." -- Bertrand Russell -- The Nobel Prize-winning philosopher, mathematician and peace activist that claimed to be an Agnostic. He would have been happy to believe, he just wanted more proof first...
"Religious Dogma leaders would have you abandon your own moral compass and soul, to become slaves to their own stated ideas about what it is that GOD wants from you." -- iG
The worst trouble for humanity as a whole comes when anyone, or any group, attempts to force their own beliefs on to any other individual or group. This could very well be one of the main roots of true Evil....
Below are some of the many things that I've considered when the question of GOD came up. Food for thought anyway.
================
Traditional "proofs" of God's Existence
1) The argument from Design.
If you found a clock and examined the mechanism within it, you would probably think that this intricate mechanism was not the outcome of mere chance, that it had been designed.
Now look at the universe; is it possible that such an intricate mechanism, from the orbits of planets round the sun to the cells in your fingernails could all have happened by chance? Surely, this enormously complex mechanism has been designed, and the being that designed it must be God.
2) The ontological argument
God is the perfect being. As He is most perfect, He must have all perfections. If God lacked existence He would not be perfect, as He is perfect he must exist.
3) The cosmological argument (God as "First cause")
Everything that exists has a cause. However, there must at some time have been a cause prior to all other causes. This 'prime mover' or first cause is necessary to explain existence. This first cause is God.
Pascal's Wager
The French mathematician Blaise Pascal (1623-62) put forward an argument that would appeal to agnostics. (An agnostic is someone who believes that it is impossible to prove God's existence.)
His argument goes something like this: God either exists or he does not. If we believe in God and he exists, we will be rewarded with eternal bliss in heaven. If we believe in God and he does not exist then at worst all we have forgone is a few sinful pleasures.
If we do not believe in God and he does exist we may enjoy a few sinful pleasures, but we may face eternal damnation. If we do not believe in God and he does not exist then our sins will not be punished.
Would any rational gambler think that the experience of a few sinful pleasures is worth the risk of eternal damnation?
Kant
Kant attempted to show how philosophy could prove the existence of God. Unfortunately, for him his previous work showed that we could not know reality directly as thing-in-itself. What is real in itself is beyond our experience. Even if God exists, we can not know God as he really is.
For Kant the Christian could have faith in God, and this faith would be consonant with reason and the categorical imperative. Given that human beings have the autonomy to create moral values, it would not be irrational to believe in a God who gives purpose to the moral realm.
Hegel
Hegel thought that the God of religion was an intuition of Absolute Spirit or Geist. Hegel's Geist is not like the transcendent (outside of our consciousness) God of traditional Christianity. For Hegel God is immanent and when we have understood that history is the process of Geist coming to know itself it appears that we are all part of Geist, or God.
Feuerbach and Marx
For Feuerbach and Marx religion is seen as the projection of the human essence onto an ideal: God does not make man. Rather "God" is the invention of human consciousness. Marx also sees that religion is part of an ideological view that encourages the oppressed to accept their fate. As he says: "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the sentiment of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of men, is a demand for their real happiness. The call to abandon their illusions about their condition is a call to abandon a condition which requires illusions."
Søren Kierkegaard
Søren Kierkegaard (1813-1855) agreed with Kant that the existence of God could not be proven by reason. However Kierkegaard did not think that it was rational to believe in God, rather one should have faith in God even if this seems to reason to be absurd. To put it another way reason has no place in faith. God is beyond reason.
Kierkegaard is regarded as the first existentialist.
Nietzsche: The Death of God
"Have you not heard the madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market place and cried incessantly, 'I seek God!, I seek God!' ... Why, did he get lost? Said one. Did he lose his way like a child? Said another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? Or emigrated?... The madman jumped into their midst and pierced them with his glances.
"'Whither is God'? He cried. 'I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. All of us are his murderers...'"
"...the madman fell silent and looked again at his listeners; and they to were silent and stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern on the ground, and it broke and went out. 'I came too early,' he said then; 'my time has not come yet. This tremendous event is still on its way, still wandering -it has not yet reached the ears of man."
In these passages Nietzsche is showing the inevitable unfolding anthropocentrism (lit. putting man at the centre of the world) implicit in philosophy since Kant. If we view our existence through human categories, then our concept of God is itself a human creation.
Nietzsche is not simply asserting his atheism; he is suggesting that once we are aware that the concept of God is our own creation we can no longer base our religious and moral beliefs on any notion of a divine external reality.
In the period that Nietzsche was writing, the death of God was just beginning. Western thought was starting to face the prospect of a radical change in its orientation, and it wasn't quite ready to own up to it yet.
Kierkegaard and Nietzsche represent opposite reactions to the inability of rationality to give a rock solid theoretical proof of God's existence. Kierkegaard calls for us to embrace God even if it seems an absurdity, while Nietzsche says it is time for us to create a new mode of being, with human creativity at its centre.
The atheist existentialist Sartre accepted God's death and much of his writing is attempt to look at the human condition in a world that is without a prime mover who could have provided a basis and structure for the understanding of being.
The twentieth century
Anglo American analytic philosophers of the twentieth century have tended to agree that philosophy may help us clarify religious concepts, without giving us a secure foundation for religious belief.
Many people claim to have had a religious experience, to have experienced the divine directly. This experience is direct and is of a different quality to sensory experience or intellectual discovery, and therefore outside of the scope of philosophy.
The view that the existence of God cannot be proved or disproved by philosophy has not stopped developments in modern theology. Theologians are attempting to balance the anthropocentric view of God presented by philosophers since the Enlightenment with the need to provide a spiritual path and a guide to an ethical and meaningful way of life.
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Each to his own, and the freedom to do so, is a cornerstone of this 'God Bless America.' -- iG
You forgot Epicurus and the logical problem of evil.
I didn't forget anything. I just figured that EVIL would be your own area of expertise,
so I left that wide open for you dude!
This is supposed to be a sports website and sadgator started this thread as a tongue in cheek desire for Georgia to lose to Alabama, which they did by the way. With that said, I have to say that I am proud to live in a country where, at least for now, we all have the right to believe what we like. But from someone who has honestly spent literally thousands of hours in my 65 years studying, reading, researching and speaking to people about religions of all kinds, it comes down to what we accept as our authority. Many today believe themselves as the final authority in all things, some to what they feel in their hearts. Some look to science, some to great religious men or women of the past, others to government, others to family tradition and what their parents and grandparents taught them. I choose to look to the Bible as my final authority in all things for I truly believe that it is God's instruction book to His greatest creation - human beings. But you have to understand it the proper way, learn the difference between the Old & New Testaments, learn the difference between when the Bible is speaking literally or in figurative language. It is a lifelong process that takes an honest heart, an open mind and a willingness to commit the time and effort it takes to grow and mature in the faith. Not easy and there are stumbling blocks along the way. But if you believe that we all have an eternal soul and that there is a heaven and a hell, what better way to spend our time that trying to figure out how to get to the better place? After all, if heaven exists and we miss it, we miss everything.
Ocala, you've always seemed like a solid citizen to me, and a good guy in general. Whatever way you choose to address GOD, makes no difference to me at all.
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"Religious Dogma leaders would have me abandon my own moral compass and soul, to become slaves to their own stated ideas about what it is that GOD wants from me." -- iG (not gonna happen)
The Ten Commandments and the many other good rules from the other religions that are brought forth for forming human civilizations are always good to know, no matter what your belief or disbelief in a Creator GOD amounts too.
The worst trouble for humanity as a whole comes when anyone, or any group, attempts to force their own beliefs on to any other individual or group. This could very well be one of the main roots of true Evil....
However, simply stating what you yourself believes in, in a calm neutral way, is what human being should be doing all the time, and they should calmly share their other thoughts in that same way. (this rarely happens except within like minded groups -- ah well...)
How my neighbor lives and treats other people is important to me. What color they are, or what culture they came from, or the religion that they choose to practice, or not practice, doesn't matter to me in the least.
Again ----- Each to his own, and the freedom to do so is a cornerstone of this 'God Blessed America.' -- iG
PS
The roots of the KJB goes back thousands of years.
It has been added to and it has been taken away from (the Book of Enoch for just one of the many example) as it moved across the world and through many different cultures: Sumerian, Assyrian, Hebrew, Catholic, Protestant, and maybe some others in between...
====================
"Religious Dogma leaders would have me abandon my own moral compass and soul, to become slaves to their own stated ideas about what it is that GOD wants from me." -- iG (not gonna happen)
The Ten Commandments and the many other good rules from the other religions that are brought forth for forming human civilizations are always good to know, no matter what your belief or disbelief in a Creator GOD amounts too.
The worst trouble for humanity as a whole comes when anyone, or any group, attempts to force their own beliefs on to any other individual or group. This could very well be one of the main roots of true Evil....
However, simply stating what you yourself believes in, in a calm neutral way, is what human being should be doing all the time, and they should calmly share their other thoughts in that same way. (this rarely happens except within like minded groups -- ah well...)
How my neighbor lives and treats other people is important to me. What color they are, or what culture they came from, or the religion that they choose to practice, or not practice, doesn't matter to me in the least.
Again ----- Each to his own, and the freedom to do so is a cornerstone of this 'God Blessed America.' -- iG
PS
The roots of the KJB goes back thousands of years.
It has been added to and it has been taken away from (the Book of Enoch for just one of the many example) as it moved across the world and through many different cultures: Sumerian, Assyrian, Hebrew, Catholic, Protestant, and maybe some others in between...
Appreciate the thoughts Insta. There is a difference between forcing your beliefs on another person (like many Muslims, secular humanists and even some Christians) and trying to convince someone to accept or convert to a certain belief system. Christianity is under attack throughout the world today, even in America. That saddens me greatly. People should be allowed to peacefully and calmly evangelize. The constitution prohibits the imposing of a religion by government on the people, which is why most fled Europe to come to America - for freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. Separation of church & state is not found in the Constitution, only in modern day judicial interpretations that have gone way too far, IMO. Today the Constitution has been subverted to where religion is not allowed any place at all in society except in the privacy of our own homes and the churches where we assemble. That, to me, is wrong. You, Insta, take a lot of crap from people on this board and you give it back just as heartily. I try to stay out of personal attacks and just state my position. People can agree or disagree. That's fine. I'm a Christian first, a husband second, a father & grandfather 3rd, an American 4th and a GATOR 5th. All have high priority in my life. But to each his own. We will all have to answer for our thoughts, words and deeds in the end.Ocala, you've always seemed like a solid citizen to me, and a good guy in general. Whatever way you choose to address GOD, makes no difference to me at all.
====================
"Religious Dogma leaders would have me abandon my own moral compass and soul, to become slaves to their own stated ideas about what it is that GOD wants from me." -- iG (not gonna happen)
The Ten Commandments and the many other good rules from the other religions that are brought forth for forming human civilizations are always good to know, no matter what your belief or disbelief in a Creator GOD amounts too.
The worst trouble for humanity as a whole comes when anyone, or any group, attempts to force their own beliefs on to any other individual or group. This could very well be one of the main roots of true Evil....
However, simply stating what you yourself believes in, in a calm neutral way, is what human being should be doing all the time, and they should calmly share their other thoughts in that same way. (this rarely happens except within like minded groups -- ah well...)
How my neighbor lives and treats other people is important to me. What color they are, or what culture they came from, or the religion that they choose to practice, or not practice, doesn't matter to me in the least.
Again ----- Each to his own, and the freedom to do so is a cornerstone of this 'God Blessed America.' -- iG
PS
The roots of the KJB goes back thousands of years.
It has been added to and it has been taken away from (the Book of Enoch for just one of the many example) as it moved across the world and through many different cultures: Sumerian, Assyrian, Hebrew, Catholic, Protestant, and maybe some others in between...
First off, it's ten's of thousand of years, through many translations, with adds and subtractions at virtually every stage, and that's just with the KJB version.
You need to broaden your scope quite a bit imo.
There are many other books about one God or another, and very many other groups of people with oral histories that don't include books.
The interesting thing to me, is that the vast majority of people from all over the Earth and throughout all of time, do believe in something that the word GOD is applied to. That just seems more than a simple coincidence to me...
People are sheep, ez to fool. Its no coincidence that the catholic church has as much land or money(not an attack on catholics). People WANT to believe but the fact is, most of us have experienced death for eternity, we were not alive in the 1400's and we wont be alive in the 2200's. The same thing will happen, we will cease to exist not knowing we cease to exist. This scares the sh## out of people and so they belive in "god". Im not gunna lie, its a GREAT scam. It gets people to act a certain way, give money. It works for a lot of people who need that. I mean, even albert einsten agrees with me. He was agnostic. People can say what they want, believe what they want but there is zero facts that god exist or where he came from. I have some serious questions for him if he is actually tgere. He set us up a crap deal here if true. He left us with disease and murder. I know i know, hes "challenging" us but yet he already knows the outcome and is everywhere at once. So we have free will but he already knows whats going to happen. I had help but i had someone read parts of the original bible to me(in hebrew). Cracks me up some of the sh## in there and the misinterpretations in the english version are hilarious.
That to me is a problem. You are putting something you have no proof of before your family. I agree with insta you seem like a good dude but i just cant allow myself to believe in an invisible man in the sky that no one on earth has even a shred of evidence of. All that we have is a book. That was written by....more than likely people on drugs. I say that not to poo poo on religion, its just very clear to ke that there is no proof and the more you research the more you realize how crazy people are over it. Im actually shocked it has lasted this long. Like i said before, all god would have to do is come down for 5 seconds and say, "hey, im here". I would be at church every sunday. I have to see it tho. I dont believe others, especially those who didnt live in tge same time as me.
First off, it's ten's of thousand of years, through many translations, with adds and subtractions at virtually every stage, and that's just with the KJB version.
You need to broaden your scope quite a bit imo.
There are many other books about one God or another, and very many other groups of people with oral histories that don't include books.
The interesting thing to me, is that the vast majority of people from all over the Earth and throughout all of time, do believe in something that the word GOD is applied to. That just seems more than a simple coincidence to me...
Your first off is incorrect, 10 of thousands is the sames as hundreds of hundreds. I nvr put an end value so could have been talking about 10000 100's. I realize tgis is being picky and criminolish but...its correct
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