UF/Ole Miss Game Thread
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Hill also had a defensive deflection, and assist, and a lay-up before a TO, but I guess we already know what a Hill-hater is going to focus on.... 
I won't post again until after the game is over....
I won't post again until after the game is over....
14 point lead at halftime. Ole Miss has 14 turnovers. Our bigs aren't doing anything on offense, except Robinson.
Not a Hill-hater. Just calling his erratic play for 4 years as I see it. He makes a great play, then a dumb play and for every great assist, there's a turnover. That's been his M.O since his freshman year. He was a good backup to Wilbekin, and has been the best PG we've had the last 3 years. But that's not saying much considering the alternatives.When I think of solid Gator point guards, I think Tauren Green, Dan Cross, Erving Walker, Eddie Shannon, Ronnie Montgomery, Vernon Delancey, Nick Calethas, Anthony Roberson, Richard Glaspar, Kenny Boynton, Andrew Moten. Hill isn't in their league. I've been following Gator basketball since the early 60's and IMO he's just not been what the program is used to.Hill also had a defensive deflection, and assist, and a lay-up before a TO, but I guess we already know what a Hill-hater is going to focus on....
I won't post again until after the game is over....
Nice rebound game for Canyon Barry so far,
Barry - 15 pts (2/5 from 3-pt)
Allen - 12 pts, 5 reb (4/7 from 3-pt)
D.Robinson - 9 pts
Hayes - 4 pts, 4 reb
Egbunu - 3 pts, 3 reb
Kasey is having a good all-around game!
Hill - 8 pts, 4 A, 5 reb, 6 stls (but 5 TO's).
Barry - 15 pts (2/5 from 3-pt)
Allen - 12 pts, 5 reb (4/7 from 3-pt)
D.Robinson - 9 pts
Hayes - 4 pts, 4 reb
Egbunu - 3 pts, 3 reb
Kasey is having a good all-around game!
Hill - 8 pts, 4 A, 5 reb, 6 stls (but 5 TO's).
Barry doesn't get the benefit of getting hammered when he goes to the basket, especially since he got killed in the FSU game and got stitches. Have a 15 point lead and Allen hasn't even done anything yet in the half, that's a good sign... Need a few more trays to dag them
Barry was great, Allen & Robinson were solid. Defense was very good again. Point guard play still hurts us. Too many turnovers, bad passes & poor shooting from the field and free throw line. Hill is better than Chiozza, that much is obvious, but I don't trust either one of them down the stretch with the ball in their hands.
Robinson played 30 minutes without a rebound. Barry has got it going lately, but he went 2 weeks without hitting a jumper. Hill had as many assists as the rest of the team combined. The pgs aren't great, but it's not like we're loaded everywhere else. White is doing a good job of emphasizing what these guys do well and hiding what they don't. He has this team pretty close to maxed out and they're playing good ball.
This is a good win, as any SEC win is a good win. But this is a seriously flawed team. And it starts with PG play.
Hill was 1-4 at the FT line. But he missed two front ends of a 1 for 1. So that is really 1 for 6. He had 5 assists. That is good. But he had 5 turnovers. That is bad.
Chiozza was not much better. He was 1-3 at the FT line. But he missed the front end of a 1-1, so he was 1-4. He did have 3 assist and only 1 TO so that was good.
So, the starting PG are eight assists, which is good, but six turnovers, which is very very bad.
Plus, when you count the missed front end of a 1 for 1, they were 1-10.
Let that soak in for a minute. The starting PGs are 1-10 at the FT line.
Plus we got crushed on the boards. Crushed.
We are going to miss the tournament if these guys keep playing like this. Because the teams we play, very few will lose if the starting PGs keep playing like this.
Hill was 1-4 at the FT line. But he missed two front ends of a 1 for 1. So that is really 1 for 6. He had 5 assists. That is good. But he had 5 turnovers. That is bad.
Chiozza was not much better. He was 1-3 at the FT line. But he missed the front end of a 1-1, so he was 1-4. He did have 3 assist and only 1 TO so that was good.
So, the starting PG are eight assists, which is good, but six turnovers, which is very very bad.
Plus, when you count the missed front end of a 1 for 1, they were 1-10.
Let that soak in for a minute. The starting PGs are 1-10 at the FT line.
Plus we got crushed on the boards. Crushed.
We are going to miss the tournament if these guys keep playing like this. Because the teams we play, very few will lose if the starting PGs keep playing like this.
Basketball starts with point guard play. They bring the ball up. You can make do with mediocre pgs if you have anyone else to make plays. We don't. For instance, we could get by with Erving Walker at PG, who was really a 5'6" shooting guard, because we ran the offense through Chandler Parsons, who was SEC player of the year, and we had a lottery pick at sg. We don't have anyone near as good as those two, so we have to rely on our pgs, who are very limited players, to create offense. I just don't get why everybody jumps all over the point guards, but I think bitching about point guard play is one of those things people do to sound like they know what they're talking about. Like pitch framing in baseball. The pgs had 8 assists and 6 turnovers. The rest of the team had 2 assists and 4 turnovers, so there's not a lot of guys making plays out there.
All in all, I think these guys are playing about as well as they are capable of. I'd like to see Hill with a 2/1 asst/turnover just like I'd like to see D-rob average 8 boards, but they're just not those guys.
hill has gotten better, and believe me im rooting for the guy but i pick on him so much because I know how important he is to our future success and has to carry us as a Senior. What kills me with him is hes VERY un clutch, and he seems to shine negatively in the worst times to do it for us, he's a situational screw up, we all know it's true it's not really getting on him it's what he has done for 3 years.
Ive been on a kick of watching our old tournament games for some reason late at night, ill tell ya what I used to give walker shit too but he was pretty damn good and Parsons improved as much as any guy ive ever seen for us beside Jo... Prather could fit in that category too, Barry reminds me a little of him and they wear the same number, very athletic, lengthy, can fly, very raw talent and can hit weird looking mid range shots towards the basket you never think have a chance when they let them go... but Barry shoots better.. Casey was better at probably everything else defensively.
What i like about this team is they can have one of our guys with an off night and another shows up, kind of like barry tonight when last game it was D rob and Allen. Allen started hot tonight then Barry picked up the slack from others, with Chiozza dishing for some points, he hits any of those open looks for 3's he gets and we become a dangerous team. We defended better tonight for the most part but they def get lazy in stretches.
Call me crazy but im worried about our game coming up with UT, the way they play, they are only like 8-6 and just lost at home to the team we beat up pretty good but they always give us hell and they have a talented team with a decent coach, good basketball name but a putz on gameday. They beat us pretty good last year too I believe.
Ive been on a kick of watching our old tournament games for some reason late at night, ill tell ya what I used to give walker shit too but he was pretty damn good and Parsons improved as much as any guy ive ever seen for us beside Jo... Prather could fit in that category too, Barry reminds me a little of him and they wear the same number, very athletic, lengthy, can fly, very raw talent and can hit weird looking mid range shots towards the basket you never think have a chance when they let them go... but Barry shoots better.. Casey was better at probably everything else defensively.
What i like about this team is they can have one of our guys with an off night and another shows up, kind of like barry tonight when last game it was D rob and Allen. Allen started hot tonight then Barry picked up the slack from others, with Chiozza dishing for some points, he hits any of those open looks for 3's he gets and we become a dangerous team. We defended better tonight for the most part but they def get lazy in stretches.
Call me crazy but im worried about our game coming up with UT, the way they play, they are only like 8-6 and just lost at home to the team we beat up pretty good but they always give us hell and they have a talented team with a decent coach, good basketball name but a putz on gameday. They beat us pretty good last year too I believe.
Walker was decent. I think it's pretty close between him and Hill. Hill is better at pushing the ball and getting in the lane. Walker was more solid, although he had a knack for big turnovers and for taking some crazy 25-foot jumpers at bad times. Big thing with walker was he was a tough ball handler and he made his free throws. Hill has been better at the line but fell apart last night. White sat him for the last couple offensive possessions. I couldn't believe Miss let the clock run out down 7 when Hill had the ball.
If we had a real good PG (Not truly elite but real good) we could beat any team in the country on a given night probably. Hill just makes you shake your head many times.
Hill is the most fun guy to watch, and hes also the most frustrating to watch
Well Walker could shoot the lights out when he was on but was streaky like Boynton, but a MILLION times better scorer than Hill.
Right now our RPI and SOS are way up there and kenpom has us as a 49% chance of knocking off UK at home... If that happened not only would we make the tournament but with more solid wins in conference we could possibly be looking at a 4-5 seed. I just keep waiting on a stinker loss to a bad team like we have in conference, like the next game at home. We need to win these games this month, we play at Auburn and then @Bama, UGA, @South Carolina, Vanderbilt then @LSU, every single one of those games is winnable and could have one loss out of that for the month. Vandy and LSU are pretty bad and South Carolina is one of those wins we need because of their record and the team should be up to beat them like arky even though they aren't that great at all...That could leave us at 8-1 in conference play by February and probably at worst 7-2 which has us halfway on our way to a decently seeded tournament spot...
Exactly that. His inconsistency is maddening. He is capable of breathtaking plays, both good and bad.
I think if we had a real good player at any of the positions, other than SG, because Allen is already good, we'd give anybody trouble. If we had a center or pf that commanded a double team and was capable of passing out, then Hill and Allen wouldn't have to go launching themselves in the lane every other time down the floor. Hayes and Egbunu have 10 assists between them all year. If we had a wing forward capable of getting a shot and making it consistently, it would take a lot of pressure off the ball handlers, etc... etc...
I think Hill was a net positive last night, other than his free throw shooting, which was obviously awful. He scored or assisted on 18 points, which was second best on the team to Barry. He turned it over five times, but he stole it back six, and a couple of those steals led to runouts that led to easy non-assist baskets. He also dropped it off three times to bigs that each would have been layups for a big who could score. He got Hayes all four of his fta (2-4).
I actually thought Chiozza did well with his minutes too, other than the missed free throws. He had a couple nice assists during a run early in the second half, when it looked like the Gators were going to cough up the lead.
Also, if you look at the team stats for the season, Hill and Chiozza are responsible for 66 percent (113/171) of the team's assists on the year, and just 39 percent of the turnovers (61/157).
Sorry, but your so-called thinking, speculations, and constantly ignoring of the actual game stats says that you are a Hill-hater, despite your weak denials.
PG Kasey Hill 28.6 Min, FG 42.5%, 3Pt 17.6%, FT 63.3%.
Per/Gm - Pts 9.3, RB 3.0, Ast 4.9, TO 3.1, Stl 1.8, Blk 0.2.
And he plays rock solid defense. He's all over the court like the 'energizer bunny.'
PG Chris Chiozza 19.5 Min, FG 35.9%, 3Pt 26.5%, FT 75.8%.
Per/Gm - Pts 5.7, RB 2.3, Ast 3.2, TO 1.3, Stl 1.4, Blk 0
A very solid and lightening quick backup (Co-PG).
PG Eric Hester 5.8 Min, FG 50%, 3Pt 37.5%, FT 50%
Per/Gm - Pts 1.8, RB 0.3, Ast 0.3, TO 0.3, Stl 0.4, Blk 0
Very good as he continues to develop and learn White's game.
SG Kevaughn Allen 27.7 Min, FG 44.9%, 3Pt 40.8%, FT 89.3%
Per/Gm - Pts 14.1, RB 2.4, Ast 1.3, TO 1.6, Stl 1.2, Blk 0.3
His defense continues to improve and he's what you want at SG.
The guards all have 'team' roles to play, and imo so far, they are playing their roles well and progressing with each game played.
The same can be said for the rest of the team.
Mike has started his 2nd season as a Gator at 11-3, 2-0 SEC, which is pretty darn good, especially against the #2 SoS with the #4 RPI.
BTW, I think I heard someone say that 7 different players have already led the team in scoring in a game this season.
(that's what the B-2-B's did fairly often,,, TEAM)
The constant defensive pressure exerted by the PG's caused how many TO's by Miss?
That kind of wear & tear on them makes other areas of their game suffer some. You can't have it all, all of the time. I like how they are playing the overall game.
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Overall, the team is averaging 11 TO a game, which is pretty good, particularly given this team's lack of ballhandlers. I can't complain about how White has this team playing. They are playing like a very poor man's version of the last Final 4 team. Each team had one complete player, Wilbekin and Allen respectively, and then a bunch of good, coachable athletes who play hard and play defense.
It would be interesting to put Allen at the 1 late in games when we're trying to protect the lead. He's your best player, handles it about as well as Hill and is probably more solid with the ball, and he makes his free throws.
Most of the Pros and commentators agree that Hill & Chi are two of the best ball handlers in college ball. They say it often during games.
Chi excels in no-look passes and burst speed.
Hill excels in driving to the basket and then getting a kick-out assist when the defense collapses on him. And if they don't collapse on him, he can lay it in or SLAM dunk it. A 6-1 PG that dunks!
And Hill is currently shooting at 42.5% on his FG's for the season.
JMOHO of course and others have a right to their own, but I'm happy with the Gator PG play so far this season. They all have room to improve, but that's true for everyone everywhere....
Chi excels in no-look passes and burst speed.
Hill excels in driving to the basket and then getting a kick-out assist when the defense collapses on him. And if they don't collapse on him, he can lay it in or SLAM dunk it. A 6-1 PG that dunks!
And Hill is currently shooting at 42.5% on his FG's for the season.
JMOHO of course and others have a right to their own, but I'm happy with the Gator PG play so far this season. They all have room to improve, but that's true for everyone everywhere....
I really like the job Mike White is doing with the players he's got. But the FACT is that, like several other posters have stated, our point guard play has been a primary weakness the last 3 years and it's a primary reason we have not gotten to the NCAA tournament. When your starting point guard has a career free throw percentage of 57% (that's starting his senior season and right now he's at 63% for this season) and assist to turnover ratio is very poor, not to mention shooting 17.6% from the 3 point line while his backup is at 26%, that's just not good enough to win close games against quality opponents. I agree that both Hill & Chiozza play hard and make good steals and force some bad passes. But they also take wild shots, make dumb passes and get themselves in positions where they have to force the ball with nowhere to go. And it's also WHEN they do these things. Not hitting the front end of 1 & 1's at critical times in the game has been an ongoing problem. I get it. You love these 2 guys and I'm sure they're good kids, good students and work their butts off. I wish them and our team only the best. I'm just saying, and have been saying for the past 3 years, that we do not have a point guard that can or will lead us to a championship. I hope they prove me wrong. It won't be the 1st time, nor the last. But college level point guards have to be able to take care of the ball, make free throws at a 75%+ clip and make a jump shot at least half the time when left wide open. And we haven't had that guy since Scottie Wilbekin graduated. I love Allen and agree with a prior poster that in crunch time we need to get and keep the ball in his hands as much as possible.
Most of the Pros and commentators agree that Hill & Chi are two of the best ball handlers in college ball. They say it often during games.
Chi excels in no-look passes and burst speed.
Hill excels in driving to the basket and then getting a kick-out assist when the defense collapses on him. And if they don't collapse on him, he can lay it in or SLAM dunk it. A 6-1 PG that dunks!
And Hill is currently shooting at 42.5% on his FG's for the season.
JMOHO of course and others have a right to their own, but I'm happy with the Gator PG play so far this season. They all have room to improve, but that's true for everyone everywhere....
Hill is a great ball handler as far as getting past his man, and he is probably the fastest player in the country end to end with the ball. But his recklessness with the ball, particularly in big spots and when the Gators are trying to protect a lead, is an issue. I think he really struggles with an understanding of when to be aggressive and when to protect the ball. Also, when he has a couple nice plays in a row, you know the pull up jumper is coming. Every shot he takes should come with at least a foot in the lane.
I agree about our low post guys. I thought Egbunu was going to better than he's proven to be. Seems like he gets frustrated easily and then starts forcing shots when none are there. Hayes is raw, but he's got a decent short range jumper and he's coming along. Although not a post player, Robinson looks great shooting, rebounding, etc. in spurts and then disappears. Same with Leon. One thing Hill does that is very impressive is defensive rebounding. As a team we're outrebounding our opponents by 2 per game (same as we did last year) and almost doubling them in blocked shots last season we had a 153-126 edge). And we've attempted 100 more free throws (last year 65 more for the year) and are making 72% (last year 65%). White has the program headed in the right direction.
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