Trump is damaged goods, DeSantis is the future.

DCandtheUTBand

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I am the least likely person to "change" than anyone you know. I voted for Ronald Reagan when I was 18 years old, and have been an America loving conservative my whole life. EVERYTHING in my life that is important to me(not including family and friends) revolve around my love of my Country. Let me explain. I LOVE the military. Why? Because without them...America would not be a free Country. So I hold them up pretty high because without them, no America as we know it. I think of everything this way. With lib thinking that it is ALL about Trump...you could replace Trump where I said military here...and it is the EXACT same thing. I DO love Trump. Not the man. Not at ALL. I DO love what he has done for America. We can debate that part...but to the point here...it is NOT about Trump to me AT ALL. You can say the same about Reagan. I could not LOVE Reagan or Trump...never met either. But I LOVE what Reagan did for America.
I like this but I differ from you in that it isn't even country for me. I am an American because of a set of ideas. I will always be an American wherever I live and regardless if I choose to become a dual citizen. I owe fealty to the Declaration and the Constitution. I see those docs as being similar to the Old and New Testaments. The Declaration should inform us on how we interpret the Constitution. If the Declaration is the lens with which we view the Constitution then we never would have had Roe or Ogerbefell.

For me being an American exists between the ears. The left rejects the Judeo-Christian ethos that is the backbone of the Declaration and the Constitution.
 

BSC911

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One week later and Trump still hasn’t condemned his guests. I guess he is afraid of offending his base.

“President Trump should condemn Kanye West and Nick Fuentes’s Jew hatred, antisemitism and Holocaust denial,” said Morton A. Klein, the president of the Zionist Organization of America, which honored Trump with a rare prize on Nov. 13 recognizing his administration’s Israel policies. “Even if he didn’t know who Nick Fuentes was — one could easily believe that to be true — but now that he knows, he should say something.”
 
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Uniformed_ReRe

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LOL. I never thought about that but you are spot on. Just spews the same angry diatribe in every post.

Probably lives in a trailer.

I suspect he makes a decent living. If he lives in a trailer, it’s probably not due to poverty.

I think he’s spent most of his adult life “outsmarting” customers negotiating sales at a car dealership. That would explain his overconfidence.
 
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BSC911

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I suspect he makes a decent living. If he lives in a trailer, it’s probably not due to poverty.

I think he’s spent most of his adult life “outsmarting” customers negotiating sales at a car dealership. That would explain his overconfidence.
i think the opposite. No college degree so he’s very insecure about his intelligence, therefore overcompensates by calling everyone else stupid. It’s a classic profile.

And my trailer comment was in regards to Ghosts characterization of Trump supporters.
 
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Capt Ron 1

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I like this but I differ from you in that it isn't even country for me. I am an American because of a set of ideas. I will always be an American wherever I live and regardless if I choose to become a dual citizen. I owe fealty to the Declaration and the Constitution. I see those docs as being similar to the Old and New Testaments. The Declaration should inform us on how we interpret the Constitution. If the Declaration is the lens with which we view the Constitution then we never would have had Roe or Ogerbefell.

For me being an American exists between the ears. The left rejects the Judeo-Christian ethos that is the backbone of the Declaration and the Constitution.
We agree, and THIS is what being an American is all about. Our Constitution IS America...and the left makes a mockery of it, because it restricts them from their agenda's...which is what is important to them
 
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Capt Ron 1

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i think the opposite. No college degree so he’s very insecure about his intelligence, therefore overcompensates by calling everyone else stupid. It’s a classic profile.

And my trailer comment was in regards to Ghosts characterization of Trump supporters.
LOL One MAJOR difference between you and me...you are a (insert name for cat and part of a woman you do not know much of) (use your imagination) I NEVER, EVER have run to a mod because someone huwwwwt my feelings. I know every lib is soft, and maybe open public forums are not for you guys, especially mommas boys like bsuck. You may should ask you doctor for testosterone supplements! You are welcome!
 

BSC911

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LOL One MAJOR difference between you and me...you are a (insert name for cat and part of a woman you do not know much of) (use your imagination) I NEVER, EVER have run to a mod because someone huwwwwt my feelings. I know every lib is soft, and maybe open public forums are not for you guys, especially mommas boys like bsuck. You may should ask you doctor for testosterone supplements! You are welcome!
Careful, you don’t want to get banned again. And for the record I never reported you to the Mods. They can see your angry rants for themselves. I actually find them funny.

Ghost is the one who hits the report button like Pee Wee Herman hits his wanker. You must be talking about him.
 

ghost_of_ukalum1988

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Members of the Lincoln Project and other hard-core ant-Trumpers are a pretty shitty group of people.... Looks like their latest play is to begin discrediting DeSantis to boost Trump - all to presumably help Trump's chances to regain the GOP nomination for POTUS in 2024. If he's the existential threat they claim he is, why go after DeSantis in order to help Trump?

 

Uniformed_ReRe

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Members of the Lincoln Project and other hard-core ant-Trumpers are a pretty shitty group of people.... Looks like their latest play is to begin discrediting DeSantis to boost Trump - all to presumably help Trump's chances to regain the GOP nomination for POTUS in 2024. If he's the existential threat they claim he is, why go after DeSantis in order to help Trump?


Agreed. I hate this tactic.
 
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BamaFan1137

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Members of the Lincoln Project and other hard-core ant-Trumpers are a pretty shitty group of people.... Looks like their latest play is to begin discrediting DeSantis to boost Trump - all to presumably help Trump's chances to regain the GOP nomination for POTUS in 2024. If he's the existential threat they claim he is, why go after DeSantis in order to help Trump?


There are people who call themselves conservatives and/or Republicans who still support the Lincoln Project.

It is pathetic.
 

grandhavendiddy

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I like this but I differ from you in that it isn't even country for me. I am an American because of a set of ideas. I will always be an American wherever I live and regardless if I choose to become a dual citizen. I owe fealty to the Declaration and the Constitution. I see those docs as being similar to the Old and New Testaments. The Declaration should inform us on how we interpret the Constitution. If the Declaration is the lens with which we view the Constitution then we never would have had Roe or Ogerbefell.

For me being an American exists between the ears. The left rejects the Judeo-Christian ethos that is the backbone of the Declaration and the Constitution.
Let's build on that.

Being an American is valuing the power and dignity of the individual, limited government and a general notion of us being "better, together".

It ultimately is borne out of the renaissance and the enlightenment. It is a rejection of monarchy, aristocracy and theocracy. It believes in freedom of religion and i would argue, is not tethered, per se, to Judeo-Christian values. (I am an Episcopalian whose grandfather was Jewish) Why is this important?

You can be a buddhist, muslim or hindu (or other) and as long as you adhere to the above, you can be an American.

There is a part two to this.
 
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grandhavendiddy

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(Part 2)
Now, I do think that individuals who grew up in authoritarian cultures (read: China) need to be truly honest about why they are coming to America. Is it for freedom or access? Or is it the latter to (at least for now) the richest country and then bringing in your authoritarian values.
 
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goldmom

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(Part 2)
Now, I do think that individuals who grew up in authoritarian cultures (read: China) need to be truly honest about why they are coming to America. Is it for freedom or access? Or is it the latter to (at least for now) the richest country and then bringing in your authoritarian values.
You could reasonably substitute Californians moving to red states and bringing blue state habits with them. Ugh.
 

RayGravesGhost

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Now, I do think that individuals who grew up in authoritarian cultures (read: China) need to be truly honest about why they are coming to America. Is it for freedom or access? Or is it the latter to (at least for now) the richest country and then bringing in your authoritarian values.

Why do you believe they aren't being truly honest?

Most Chinese & Indian immigrants come here on education visas and then get work visas from US corporations looking for high skilled labor...100% legal

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/resear...-states-newest-immigrants-are-educated-asians

Visas for High-Skilled Workers​

About 60,000 students from India and China came to study in the U.S. in 2014-2015, according a survey by the Institute of International Education. Many are likely to find jobs here after they graduate, with the help of visa programs for high-skilled labor.

In 2014, Indian immigrants held two-thirds of the more than 160,000 annual H-1B visas for high-skilled workers, while Chinese immigrants held 87 percent of the roughly 8,800 EB-5 visas for investors who create jobs. Together, Indian and Chinese immigrants held a third of the 150,000 L-1 visas for managers or skilled employees from overseas offices being transferred by their employer to the United States.

Though the employment visas are temporary, they are renewable and provide legal work status and the ability to compete for the 140,000 job-related green cards issued annually. Though no figures are available on how many temporary work visas are eventually converted to green cards and citizenship, they do provide a path for legal immigration.

“Since employment-based immigrants do not rely on U.S. family ties for their sponsorship, they become potent new seed immigrants for further future immigration by sponsoring their families to join them in the United States,” the MPI wrote.
 

goldmom

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People who flee blue states are mostly moderates fleeing oppressive regulation and woke culture. If they were mostly lefties, Florida would be blue by now.
It depends which state they’re fleeing. My Texas friends say the Cali folks are taking unreal home sale cash and buying up homes they think are bargains and driving up prices. Meanwhile they’ve voted Dem forever and don’t care because they’re sitting in a 5,000 sq Ft house with a pool instead of a 1200 sq Ft shoebox.
 
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Uniformed_ReRe

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It depends which state they’re fleeing. My Texas friends say the Cali folks are taking unreal home sale cash and buying up homes they think are bargains and driving up prices. Meanwhile they’ve voted Dem forever and don’t care because they’re sitting in a 5,000 sq Ft house with a pool instead of a 1200 sq Ft shoebox.

My family migrated from New York to Florida when I was a kid. While admittedly anecdotal, my experience with people who have the same background is that they tend to be socially center-left and fiscally center-right.
 

grandhavendiddy

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Why do you believe they aren't being truly honest?

Most Chinese & Indian immigrants come here on education visas and then get work visas from US corporations looking for high skilled labor...100% legal

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/resear...-states-newest-immigrants-are-educated-asians

Visas for High-Skilled Workers​

About 60,000 students from India and China came to study in the U.S. in 2014-2015, according a survey by the Institute of International Education. Many are likely to find jobs here after they graduate, with the help of visa programs for high-skilled labor.

In 2014, Indian immigrants held two-thirds of the more than 160,000 annual H-1B visas for high-skilled workers, while Chinese immigrants held 87 percent of the roughly 8,800 EB-5 visas for investors who create jobs. Together, Indian and Chinese immigrants held a third of the 150,000 L-1 visas for managers or skilled employees from overseas offices being transferred by their employer to the United States.

Though the employment visas are temporary, they are renewable and provide legal work status and the ability to compete for the 140,000 job-related green cards issued annually. Though no figures are available on how many temporary work visas are eventually converted to green cards and citizenship, they do provide a path for legal immigration.

“Since employment-based immigrants do not rely on U.S. family ties for their sponsorship, they become potent new seed immigrants for further future immigration by sponsoring their families to join them in the United States,” the MPI wrote.
I just don't think they ask themselves the question.

It does tend to be 100% legal and yes, for the reasons you state. Excellent individuals and talent.
The "issue" is that they bring values that are different than the core of the founding.

My grandfather came over to escape the holocaust and married a swedish woman (you go, grandpa, lol) It was always about freedom and a celebration thereof. Not just access to high paying (in this case) tech jobs.
Again, freedom versus access.

It matters a lot when you get to resistance or support around things like mask mandates, school lockdowns, vaccine mandates, etc.