The good and the bad. At the risk of P. off some on this forum, I just needed to say this. This morning I picked up my latest issue of Times Mag.

[Illegal-shift]

I have no problem with him pardoning anyone who was peacefully walking with the group. If they climbed over a wall or went thru a window or did anything violent or destructive, they should be punished, not pardoned.

Each person should be judged on their own actions. A blanket pardon will not be remembered in a positive light by history. It is essentially saying.....yes, some of you broke the law, but since you did it for me you can go free. And Biden did something similar with some of his pardons. A pox on both your houses.

You guys are pushing so hard for "your side" you miss the bigger picture. American will never be great again until we find a way to stop the "us vs them" mentality that has a strangle hold on so many Americans. We can't survive over the long run without fixing this........if its even fixable. You may win the battle, but America is clearly losing the war.

 

[Illegal-shift]

That all sounds great but there's nowhere near a 20% chance of success it has a 0% chance of success and no that's not worth throwing everything against the wall for. And I am sorry, but your premise throughout that entire section sounds like disingenuous tripe to me. As long as China and india and South America exponentially outpollute the US, it will never work. The Paris Accord is a grift for income redistribution and a globalist wet dream, benchmarks are voluntary and rich countries (us) pay out the wazoo. Anyone who would agree to this is insane or stupid or both.

To answer your question, I don't know what I would do. I would think about it long and hard and I do realize that desperate times call for desperate measures, but I would need to see some evidence of success even anecdotal success before I considered it. You cannot provide anything credible when it comes to the climate in terms of success not yet at least. And you never have any chance of it if the rest of the world pollutes. Tell your grandson that, since it's the truth ...

Saying it has zero percent chance is really your whole argument. You need to read more.......and not the far right propaganda. Read what the scientists say........both sides of it. You lose all credibility with this comment.

Its like your asking for evidence about who won the game before the game is even played. You want to wait until the game is over to see the right choice. We don't have the luxury.

 

[FresnoGator]

Saying it has zero percent chance is really your whole argument. You need to read more.......and not the far right propaganda. Read what the scientists say........both sides of it. You lose all credibility with this comment.

Its like your asking for evidence about who won the game before the game is even played. You want to wait until the game is over to see the right choice. We don't have the luxury.

I have told you before and I will tell you again I read both sides for completeness and context. I was in healthcare for a lot of years and science for a lot of years too. I have seen what the scientist say, and there is no consensus but there is as a bastardization of information depending on which side is paying the bills for your research. I spent a lot of time in my residency picking apart scientific articles 50 a week for two years. So I think I know how to gauge science.

I say there is zero chance because all of the initiatives to address climate change are just grifts for monetary redistribution. And the bottom line is that until China and India and South America get serious about making any changes and being accountable for them then we are just literally pissing into the wind. And that’s where we are now.

You need to wake up and smell the coffee …

 

[GatorTheo]

Odd you don't have a problem with guns now. You never once mentioned the unnecessary use of deadly force, only her decision to climb unarmed through a window.

My main interest in this story is watching the right and left switch positions. The left is all upset about police being 'beaten up' and the right is all upset about a trespasser being shot.

 

[NavigatorII]

My main interest in this story is watching the right and left switch positions. The left is all upset about police being 'beaten up' and the right is all upset about a trespasser being shot.

Are you REALLY trying to conflate all this with a cop shooting an unarmed person on the other side of a locked door? 😂

 

[Illegal-shift]

I have told you before and I will tell you again I read both sides for completeness and context. I was in healthcare for a lot of years and science for a lot of years too. I have seen what the scientist say, and there is no consensus what there is as a bastardization of information depending on which side is paying the bills for your research. I spent a lot of time in my residency, picking apart scientific articles 50 a week for two years. So I think I know how to gauge science.

I say there is zero chance because all of the initiatives to address climate change are just grifts for monetary redistribution. And the bottom line is that until China and India and South America get serious about making any changes and being accountable for them then we are just literally pissing into the wind. And that’s where we are now.

You need to wake up and smell the coffee …

I know you have said that, but I don't see evidence of that in the way you post. Pretty much every time you and I have debated you have taken the far right viewpoint. I am usually near the middle.....which I really am in this one. I am just trying to understand why people who care about the country, the world and children would summarily dismiss the findings and opinions of a lot of very smart people. Who also certainly could be wrong.........but shouldn't be ignored just because some of them follow the money.

The China, etc. is a separate argument. We first have to determine if there is a zero chance of changing the course or not. Obviously if "nothing we do will help anyway" then China and India don't matter.

 

[treygator29]

My main interest in this story is watching the right and left switch positions. The left is all upset about police being 'beaten up' and the right is all upset about a trespasser being shot.

, I’d hope both sides would be upset about someone getting killed for trespassing.

 

[treygator29]

It blows my mind some people still think Jan 6 was an insurrection. The world’s first insurrection with no weapons at all. lol. Ok

 

[FresnoGator]

It blows my mind some people still think Jan 6 was an insurrection. The world’s first insurrection with no weapons at all. lol. Ok

Anyone who thinks that you can dismiss out of hand as a non-thinker. They no longer have any credible opinions. ...

 

[FresnoGator]

I know you have said that, but I don't see evidence of that in the way you post. Pretty much every time you and I have debated you have taken the far right viewpoint. I am usually near the middle.....which I really am in this one. I am just trying to understand why people who care about the country, the world and children would summarily dismiss the findings and opinions of a lot of very smart people. Who also certainly could be wrong.........but shouldn't be ignored just because some of them follow the money.

The China, etc. is a separate argument. We first have to determine if there is a zero chance of changing the course or not. Obviously if "nothing we do will help anyway" then China and India don't matter.

As we both know, I tend to favor the right, but traditionally I have all I've always been exactly in the middle between moderate and far right, the fact that you think I am far right now says more about the political climate today than anything else, because the left which has never been further left, then it is now it's actually socialist /communist. And according to the left one on the right is on the far right, which is a ridiculous assertion, as I do not stand with white supremacists in any way shape or form.

Yes, there are a lot of supposedly smart people on the left however, I read someone like economist Paul Krugman and I think he's a freaking moron and he's one Nobel prize I think or some big prize. I read article articles in the Atlantic about how their needs to be a "Covid amnesty" for anyone who spewed misinformation and instilled draconian measures on the public. The left is all about not taking responsibility for anything for me instead of a Covid amnesty, they should be in jail at the very least. So even though I read both sides and some things on the right make me cringe. I certainly lean in that direction.

We are already doing our share in the US to help with the climate, joining the Paris accord would be just stupidity again and China and India absolutely matter. Let's face it. The climate is going to change no matter what we do and there is no evidence that anything we do will have a long lasting effect one way or the other. And no scientist worth his salt would swear on his life that that was true, sorry ...

 

[Orangeclad]

True but Babbitt was breaking in to a secured area. She behaved in a way that made getting shot a significant risk. Just like running from the cops.

In a perfect world, she wouldn't have been shot but she took a big risk and lost

Don't forget Roseanne Boyland was literally beaten to death on the steps of the Capitol.

She also posed ZERO threat.

She has been forgotten and needed to be reminded of.

 

[GatorTheo]

, I’d hope both sides would be upset about someone getting killed for trespassing.

It looks like the only people that are upset are trumpers. Dems don't care because she wasn't a protected class. Rinos probably don't care because she put herself in a very dangerous position.

It's sad that someone died but it was significantly her own fault.

 

[GatorTheo]

It blows my mind some people still think Jan 6 was an insurrection. The world’s first insurrection with no weapons at all. lol. Ok

Who first used that word? Maddow, maybe?

 

[goldmom]

Not sure I get your logic here Fres..........you are not "sure" we can do something about it.......so lets do nothing? You wait for "proof" and its going to be too late.....your POV is self defeating.

I look at my children and soon grandchildren and.....well, this attitude rings incredibly selfish. I want them to know we did EVERYTHING we could to try and make it right......even if that fails.

Instead we sit here and fiddle as Rome burns.

In the preventative sense we can do almost nothing. That’s reality. We’re just like the little ants who were assigned by the Almighty to inhabit this place on a temporary basis.
What we can do and should do is to make every effort to mitigate and defend human life for what is inevitable - whatever that means or what it may bring.
I have grandchildren as well and I agree that we have to do our best to try and make things right.

 

[gator1776]

for those of you who have not seen it, the cover had a picture of Jimmy Carter. I thought, how ironic, this man who very few can question his decency and his love for his fellow humans and who spent his life as a Christian, helping others'

At the same time, a criminal and braggard, who appears intent on trying to ruin the country is being inaugurated as the Presideni of the U.S.. He got elected in part because once again one candidate had little opposition.

His pardoning this evening of the January 5th insurrectionists was no surprise, just one criminal pardoning others.

Please note I said nothing about the Carter Presidency, that was a minor part of his life.

I think the bigger dichotomy is how somebody that was as good a man as Jimmy Carter was said to be could also be such a completely shitty president. Yet this guy that you claimed to be a horrible evil convicted felon is 100 times more effective and better as a leader and a president than Jimmy Carter ever dreamed of being.

That’s the dichotomy

Some are born to be good people, others are born to be leaders, it’s very difficult to be both liked and lead at the same time.

And let’s not forget that through feckless ineffective leadership Jimmy Carter lead to the death of many heroic servicemen

 

[Illegal-shift]

As we both know, I tend to favor the right, but traditionally I have all I've always been exactly in the middle between moderate and far right, the fact that you think I am far right now says more about the political climate today than anything else, because the left which has never been further left, then it is now it's actually socialist /communist. And according to the left one on the right is on the far right, which is a ridiculous assertion, as I do not stand with white supremacists in any way shape or form.

Yes, there are a lot of supposedly smart people on the left however, I read someone like economist Paul Krugman and I think he's a freaking moron and he's one Nobel prize I think or some big prize. I read article articles in the Atlantic about how their needs to be a "Covid amnesty" for anyone who spewed misinformation and instilled draconian measures on the public. The left is all about not taking responsibility for anything for me instead of a Covid amnesty, they should be in jail at the very least. So even though I read both sides and some things on the right make me cringe. I certainly lean in that direction.

We are already doing our share in the US to help with the climate, joining the Paris accord would be just stupidity again and China and India absolutely matter. Let's face it. The climate is going to change no matter what we do and there is no evidence that anything we do will have a long lasting effect one way or the other. And no scientist worth his salt would swear on his life that that was true, sorry ...

One quick point.......BOTH the right and left have gotten more extreme. Reagan republicans have a hard time finding any room in the party these days (remember the days of trying to balance the budget, being tough on Russia, when Character mattered, etc.). I was a very strong supporter of Reagan, but not MAGA.

If we can't do anything about climate change.....explain to me how China and India matter? We can't stop it anyway. If you think they matter in this you must be giving some credence to the notion that we might be able to do something to effect change.

 

[FresnoGator]

One quick point.......BOTH the right and left have gotten more extreme. Reagan republicans have a hard time finding any room in the party these days (remember the days of trying to balance the budget, being tough on Russia, when Character mattered, etc.). I was a very strong supporter of Reagan, but not MAGA.

If we can't do anything about climate change.....explain to me how China and India matter? We can't stop it anyway. If you think they matter in this you must be giving some credence to the notion that we might be able to do something to effect change.

Well, I think we should try and reduce emissions anyway for our overall health, but if you're trying to solve global warming or climate change or anything else, that's not a solvable problem. The air in China and India is so thick. You can cut it with a knife., I'd prefer to the US never get to that point, but that has nothing to do with the para accord, which is just complete globalist bullshit ...

 

[jsfgators]

Each person should be judged on their own actions. A blanket pardon will not be remembered in a positive light by history. It is essentially saying.....yes, some of you broke the law, but since you did it for me you can go free. And Biden did something similar with some of his pardons. A pox on both your houses.

You guys are pushing so hard for "your side" you miss the bigger picture. American will never be great again until we find a way to stop the "us vs them" mentality that has a strangle hold on so many Americans. We can't survive over the long run without fixing this........if its even fixable. You may win the battle, but America is clearly losing the war.

There is getting to be a lot more people on “my side “ than there are on “their side”. Sounds like a them problem. We are just getting started. When the democrats come to the center and stop with the birthing persons, chest feeder trannies telling stories to school children maybe we can start to have a conversation. Until then, crush them without mercy.

 

[instaGATOR]

My first time on this thread and I've only skip read through some of the posts.
And what I've gotten out of it is a mild case of depression.... 🤔

Votes and elections that can be stolen.
Lazy and willfully ignorant excuses for sovereign citizens that are neglecting their free citizen responsibilities. (throw the traitorous corrupt bas-tads out)

Even a full blown REVOLUTION would fail imoho, because there are none available here now to restart it that are anything like the quality of the original Founding Fathers.

I'm actually kinda glad that I'm as old as dirt and will be taking my long awaited dirt-nap before to long. In somewhere between at best 15 years, and at worst 15 minutes, with no clue which it's going to be.... (middle 70's with already a massive heart attack w/stent installed)

I've always been somewhat of a problem solver, but I'm coming up empty on fixing this cluster.

Angels = Original translation in Hebrew is 'messenger.'
Other sects = 'intermediaries'
That would be for the ET's, or the gods that have been coming here since our very beginnings.
'Made in OUR image.'

My idea of an omnipotent-omnipresent creator GOD of the Infinite Universe does not need 'flaming chariots' to come down to Earth. But GOD's return, or at least taking an active hand in things might be our only salvation. -- Unless his gods (ET's) are soon to return in the open and save all of our sorry butts from self-destruction.....
Now, ya'wl all have a pleasant and cheerful evening after reading that stuff..... 😉
(paybacks for me reading almost two pages of yawl's bs seems fair to me)

 

[Nicktheslick]

Why am I a skeptic on climate change, and not to whether it's occurring because it's constantly occurring, but to it's causation and solution? I am a skeptic because I do not trust that government is gonna give me
the truth on anything rather than give me half truths or lies to support an agenda driven line of thinking.

I have been telling my wife for many years that the greatest shortage of anything on earth is TRUTH, pure unadulterated truth.

You don't have to look back in the history books for examples when we all just have experienced one of earth's and our country's greatest crisis, that being Covid. Lies, lies, and more lies from the World Health Organization and then from health agencies in our own country. Look at the harm done to our own people because of wrong information or flat out lies. Be sure and stay 6 feet apart. Just made up bull s**t. And now the main source of lies just got a pardon.

The point is that I have zero faith in any govt entity telling me the whole truth if it runs counter to the agenda that is being pushed. So why the hell should I believe govt telling me anything about causes and solutions to climate change, an interesting phrase in itself which can be used more universally than the previous global warming.

Just to highlight this again. Who in their right mind would take a shot that has not even remotely been tested enough for use on human beings?

 

[treygator29]

Who first used that word? Maddow, maybe?

Not sure. Definitely became the word the propagandists liked to use

 

[gatordad3]

Just to highlight this again. Who in their right mind would take a shot that has not even remotely been tested enough for use on human beings?

Welcome to this side of the board, Nick.

 

[treygator29]

You show me definitively that there's anything we can do to make a difference and I would take a serious look at it. Right now there's nothing out there. If we do the best we can to be good citizens, but there's no proof of getting rid of oil and gas is going to do anything about the planet. Sorry, but this is exactly like throwing shit against the wall. And seeing with sticks.

The cleanest and easiest way to meet our energy goals is to use nuclear energy, but half the people are afraid of it. It is far better than these non-renewable things like wind and solar. That's what we can do and the Paris accord doesn't address any of that. It's just a big scam.

So we are supposed to dramatically alter our lives and spend massive amounts of money we don’t have on policies we aren’t sure will even remotely make a difference? Sounds like the usual leftist bent.

 

[treygator29]

You described @Mdfgator

Notice how he hasn’t been back to pay his bill. Typical lefty. Scream from the mountains. Turn out to be terribly wrong, then pretend nothing ever happened.

 

[treygator29]

Don't forget Roseanne Boyland was literally beaten to death on the steps of the Capitol.

She also posed ZERO threat.

These two names are RARELY brought up by the leftist regime media. It’s because they don’t fit the narrative. People like George Floyd who are actual criminals get monuments. If these were people who were a part of the protected class, the left would freak out and talk about how terrible America is.

 

[treygator29]

Each person should be judged on their own actions. A blanket pardon will not be remembered in a positive light by history. It is essentially saying.....yes, some of you broke the law, but since you did it for me you can go free. And Biden did something similar with some of his pardons. A pox on both your houses.

You guys are pushing so hard for "your side" you miss the bigger picture. American will never be great again until we find a way to stop the "us vs them" mentality that has a strangle hold on so many Americans. We can't survive over the long run without fixing this........if its even fixable. You may win the battle, but America is clearly losing the war.

Or, one could argue they’ve already been punished enough and the original punishment is too severe.

I agree with your second paragraph whole heartedly, but one side does need to come back down to reality before it can happen. If it was typical 90s I disagree with your politics that’s one thing. One side has devolved into a group of people that think men are woman and women are men just because they think it. Hard to find common ground in another persons fantasy land.

 

[BCSpell]

PROTESTORS.....and since the / committee admitted guilt when they accepted their pardons...lets holf off here until it comes out what REALLY happened. I do not believe we have even close to the real story.

Funny how the lefties always forget about the summer of love "protestors" and all the property damage and death that they caused and yet very few were arrested, much less hunted down years later to be arrested, and the ones that were, were released and didn't face jail time or any of the horrific treatment that the J6ers received.

 

[jb1215]

As we both know, I tend to favor the right, but traditionally I have all I've always been exactly in the middle between moderate and far right, the fact that you think I am far right now says more about the political climate today than anything else, because the left which has never been further left, then it is now it's actually socialist /communist. And according to the left one on the right is on the far right, which is a ridiculous assertion, as I do not stand with white supremacists in any way shape or form.

Yes, there are a lot of supposedly smart people on the left however, I read someone like economist Paul Krugman and I think he's a freaking moron and he's one Nobel prize I think or some big prize. I read article articles in the Atlantic about how their needs to be a "Covid amnesty" for anyone who spewed misinformation and instilled draconian measures on the public. The left is all about not taking responsibility for anything for me instead of a Covid amnesty, they should be in jail at the very least. So even though I read both sides and some things on the right make me cringe. I certainly lean in that direction.

We are already doing our share in the US to help with the climate, joining the Paris accord would be just stupidity again and China and India absolutely matter. Let's face it. The climate is going to change no matter what we do and there is no evidence that anything we do will have a long lasting effect one way or the other. And no scientist worth his salt would swear on his life that that was true, sorry ...

This X 100. Joining a "world climate club" where the US donates $3billion while other countries donate far less, most countries out of ~190 or so donate nothing and the "club" has no authority over any country is absolute madness. We have States in our country that have stricter emission and pollution regulations than the Paris Accord.

 

[treygator29]

Just to highlight this again. Who in their right mind would take a shot that has not even remotely been tested enough for use on human beings?

People who are sheep to the dem party. But something tells me you already knew that and this was tongue in cheek. Lol

 

[treygator29]

Funny how the lefties always forget about the summer of love "protestors" and all the property damage and death that they caused and yet very few were arrested, much less hunted down years later to be arrested, and the ones that were, were released and didn't face jail time or any of the horrific treatment that the J6ers received.

Doesn’t fit the narrative so it’s placed out of memory.

 

[Illegal-shift]

So we are supposed to dramatically alter our lives and spend massive amounts of money we don’t have on policies we aren’t sure will even remotely make a difference? Sounds like the usual leftist bent.

LOL, how about we inject a little reality here. We are talking about MINOR lifestyle changes for you and me and we are talking about a small % of money relative to our national budget. Its just a lot easier to say there is nothing we can do about it.....despite the fact that nobody knows if that is true or not.

Small sacrifices we are not willing to make for future generations.........despite warning signs going off left and right.

 

[Illegal-shift]

Funny how the lefties always forget about the summer of love "protestors" and all the property damage and death that they caused and yet very few were arrested, much less hunted down years later to be arrested, and the ones that were, were released and didn't face jail time or any of the horrific treatment that the J6ers received.

False equivalency. Attacking our nations capital is a much different crime and much more important to our country.

 

[goldmom]

LOL, how about we inject a little reality here. We are talking about MINOR lifestyle changes for you and me and we are talking about a small % of money relative to our national budget. Its just a lot easier to say there is nothing we can do about it.....despite the fact that nobody knows if that is true or not.

Small sacrifices we are not willing to make for future generations.........despite warning signs going off left and right.

Oh now, really?
THAT is one big a$$ can of worms right there…🙄

 

[Capt Ron 1]

No doubt the Biden DOJ went after them far more aggressively than other, more democrat-friendly rioters.

Babbitt effed around and found out.

And THIS is why I am ok with it. Their over aggressive policing on the right discredits ANY arrest they made. There are hundreds of stories where people were just standing around outside and charged w crimes that may come with 20 years. They plead down to lessor charges to avoid what happened to Trump. Best to give everyone o clean slate. And let’s remember they 109% stole an election, so F THEM

Each person should be judged on their own actions. A blanket pardon will not be remembered in a positive light by history. It is essentially saying.....yes, some of you broke the law, but since you did it for me you can go free. And Biden did something similar with some of his pardons. A pox on both your houses.

You guys are pushing so hard for "your side" you miss the bigger picture. American will never be great again until we find a way to stop the "us vs them" mentality that has a strangle hold on so many Americans. We can't survive over the long run without fixing this........if its even fixable. You may win the battle, but America is clearly losing the war.

I do not turn my cheek when attacked...i kick ass. And that is what will happen to these sissy lefties. In the end...they do not win

 

[treygator29]

LOL, how about we inject a little reality here. We are talking about MINOR lifestyle changes for you and me and we are talking about a small % of money relative to our national budget. Its just a lot easier to say there is nothing we can do about it.....despite the fact that nobody knows if that is true or not.

Small sacrifices we are not willing to make for future generations.........despite warning signs going off left and right.

I’m not on board with the government telling me what I can and can’t buy or that I should switch to an EV. This is America. You open this door and it leads to other infringes.
I’ve been a history teacher for 18 years. I’ve seen what “minor inconveniences” can turn into.

 

[Illegal-shift]

I’m not on board with the government telling me what I can and can’t buy or that I should switch to an EV. This is America. You open this door and it leads to other infringes.
I’ve been a history teacher for 18 years. I’ve seen what “minor inconveniences” can turn into.

it doesn't have to come to that. There are more ways to skin a cat.

 

[jsfgators]

False equivalency. Attacking our nations capital is a much different crime and much more important to our country.

Apparently not. The people have spoken

 

[Illegal-shift]

Apparently not. The people have spoken

LOL, oh, is that was what the vote was for, if attacking the capital is the same at looting a Wall mart.

Please do better.

 

[NavigatorII]

LOL, oh, is that was what the vote was for, if attacking the capital is the same at looting a Wall mart.

Please do better.

LOL@ the clown that thinks an unguided tour of the Capitol equates with looting businesses and burning down police cars and stations. TDS on steroids! 😂