The good and the bad. At the risk of P. off some on this forum, I just needed to say this. This morning I picked up my latest issue of Times Mag.

[Illegal-shift]

I have no problem with him pardoning anyone who was peacefully walking with the group. If they climbed over a wall or went thru a window or did anything violent or destructive, they should be punished, not pardoned.

Each person should be judged on their own actions. A blanket pardon will not be remembered in a positive light by history. It is essentially saying.....yes, some of you broke the law, but since you did it for me you can go free. And Biden did something similar with some of his pardons. A pox on both your houses.

You guys are pushing so hard for "your side" you miss the bigger picture. American will never be great again until we find a way to stop the "us vs them" mentality that has a strangle hold on so many Americans. We can't survive over the long run without fixing this........if its even fixable. You may win the battle, but America is clearly losing the war.

 

[Illegal-shift]

That all sounds great but there's nowhere near a 20% chance of success it has a 0% chance of success and no that's not worth throwing everything against the wall for. And I am sorry, but your premise throughout that entire section sounds like disingenuous tripe to me. As long as China and india and South America exponentially outpollute the US, it will never work. The Paris Accord is a grift for income redistribution and a globalist wet dream, benchmarks are voluntary and rich countries (us) pay out the wazoo. Anyone who would agree to this is insane or stupid or both.

To answer your question, I don't know what I would do. I would think about it long and hard and I do realize that desperate times call for desperate measures, but I would need to see some evidence of success even anecdotal success before I considered it. You cannot provide anything credible when it comes to the climate in terms of success not yet at least. And you never have any chance of it if the rest of the world pollutes. Tell your grandson that, since it's the truth ...

Saying it has zero percent chance is really your whole argument. You need to read more.......and not the far right propaganda. Read what the scientists say........both sides of it. You lose all credibility with this comment.

Its like your asking for evidence about who won the game before the game is even played. You want to wait until the game is over to see the right choice. We don't have the luxury.

 

[FresnoGator]

Saying it has zero percent chance is really your whole argument. You need to read more.......and not the far right propaganda. Read what the scientists say........both sides of it. You lose all credibility with this comment.

Its like your asking for evidence about who won the game before the game is even played. You want to wait until the game is over to see the right choice. We don't have the luxury.

I have told you before and I will tell you again I read both sides for completeness and context. I was in healthcare for a lot of years and science for a lot of years too. I have seen what the scientist say, and there is no consensus what there is as a bastardization of information depending on which side is paying the bills for your research. I spent a lot of time in my residency, picking apart scientific articles 50 a week for two years. So I think I know how to gauge science.

I say there is zero chance because all of the initiatives to address climate change are just grifts for monetary redistribution. And the bottom line is that until China and India and South America get serious about making any changes and being accountable for them then we are just literally pissing into the wind. And that’s where we are now.

You need to wake up and smell the coffee …

 

[GatorTheo]

Odd you don't have a problem with guns now. You never once mentioned the unnecessary use of deadly force, only her decision to climb unarmed through a window.

My main interest in this story is watching the right and left switch positions. The left is all upset about police being 'beaten up' and the right is all upset about a trespasser being shot.

 

[NavigatorII]

My main interest in this story is watching the right and left switch positions. The left is all upset about police being 'beaten up' and the right is all upset about a trespasser being shot.

Are you REALLY trying to conflate all this with a cop shooting an unarmed person on the other side of a locked door? 😂

 

[Illegal-shift]

I have told you before and I will tell you again I read both sides for completeness and context. I was in healthcare for a lot of years and science for a lot of years too. I have seen what the scientist say, and there is no consensus what there is as a bastardization of information depending on which side is paying the bills for your research. I spent a lot of time in my residency, picking apart scientific articles 50 a week for two years. So I think I know how to gauge science.

I say there is zero chance because all of the initiatives to address climate change are just grifts for monetary redistribution. And the bottom line is that until China and India and South America get serious about making any changes and being accountable for them then we are just literally pissing into the wind. And that’s where we are now.

You need to wake up and smell the coffee …

I know you have said that, but I don't see evidence of that in the way you post. Pretty much every time you and I have debated you have taken the far right viewpoint. I am usually near the middle.....which I really am in this one. I am just trying to understand why people who care about the country, the world and children would summarily dismiss the findings and opinions of a lot of very smart people. Who also certainly could be wrong.........but shouldn't be ignored just because some of them follow the money.

The China, etc. is a separate argument. We first have to determine if there is a zero chance of changing the course or not. Obviously if "nothing we do will help anyway" then China and India don't matter.

 

[treygator29]

My main interest in this story is watching the right and left switch positions. The left is all upset about police being 'beaten up' and the right is all upset about a trespasser being shot.

, I’d hope both sides would be upset about someone getting killed for trespassing.

 

[treygator29]

It blows my mind some people still think Jan 6 was an insurrection. The world’s first insurrection with no weapons at all. lol. Ok

 

[FresnoGator]

It blows my mind some people still think Jan 6 was an insurrection. The world’s first insurrection with no weapons at all. lol. Ok

Anyone who thinks that you can dismiss out of hand as a non-thinker. They no longer have any credible opinions. ...

 

[FresnoGator]

I know you have said that, but I don't see evidence of that in the way you post. Pretty much every time you and I have debated you have taken the far right viewpoint. I am usually near the middle.....which I really am in this one. I am just trying to understand why people who care about the country, the world and children would summarily dismiss the findings and opinions of a lot of very smart people. Who also certainly could be wrong.........but shouldn't be ignored just because some of them follow the money.

The China, etc. is a separate argument. We first have to determine if there is a zero chance of changing the course or not. Obviously if "nothing we do will help anyway" then China and India don't matter.

As we both know, I tend to favor the right, but traditionally I have all I've always been exactly in the middle between moderate and far right, the fact that you think I am far right now says more about the political climate today than anything else, because the left which has never been further left, then it is now it's actually socialist /communist. And according to the left one on the right is on the far right, which is a ridiculous assertion, as I do not stand with white supremacists in any way shape or form.

Yes, there are a lot of supposedly smart people on the left however, I read someone like economist Paul Krugman and I think he's a freaking moron and he's one Nobel prize I think or some big prize. I read article articles in the Atlantic about how their needs to be a "Covid amnesty" for anyone who spewed misinformation and instilled draconian measures on the public. The left is all about not taking responsibility for anything for me instead of a Covid amnesty, they should be in jail at the very least. So even though I read both sides and some things on the right make me cringe. I certainly lean in that direction.

We are already doing our share in the US to help with the climate, joining the Paris accord would be just stupidity again and China and India absolutely matter. Let's face it. The climate is going to change no matter what we do and there is no evidence that anything we do will have a long lasting effect one way or the other. And no scientist worth his salt would swear on his life that that was true, sorry ...

 

[Orangeclad]

True but Babbitt was breaking in to a secured area. She behaved in a way that made getting shot a significant risk. Just like running from the cops.

In a perfect world, she wouldn't have been shot but she took a big risk and lost

Don't forget Roseanne Boyland was literally beaten to death on the steps of the Capitol.

She also posed ZERO threat.

She has been forgotten and needed to be reminded of.

 

[GatorTheo]

, I’d hope both sides would be upset about someone getting killed for trespassing.

It looks like the only people that are upset are trumpers. Dems don't care because she wasn't a protected class. Rinos probably don't care because she put herself in a very dangerous position.

It's sad that someone died but it was significantly her own fault.

 

[GatorTheo]

It blows my mind some people still think Jan 6 was an insurrection. The world’s first insurrection with no weapons at all. lol. Ok

Who first used that word? Maddow, maybe?

 

[goldmom]

Not sure I get your logic here Fres..........you are not "sure" we can do something about it.......so lets do nothing? You wait for "proof" and its going to be too late.....your POV is self defeating.

I look at my children and soon grandchildren and.....well, this attitude rings incredibly selfish. I want them to know we did EVERYTHING we could to try and make it right......even if that fails.

Instead we sit here and fiddle as Rome burns.

In the preventative sense we can do almost nothing. That’s reality. We’re just like the little ants who were assigned by the Almighty to inhabit this place on a temporary basis.
What we can do and should do is to make every effort to mitigate and defend human life for what is inevitable - whatever that means or what it may bring.
I have grandchildren as well and I agree that we have to do our best to try and make things right.

 

[gator1776]

for those of you who have not seen it, the cover had a picture of Jimmy Carter. I thought, how ironic, this man who very few can question his decency and his love for his fellow humans and who spent his life as a Christian, helping others'

At the same time, a criminal and braggard, who appears intent on trying to ruin the country is being inaugurated as the Presideni of the U.S.. He got elected in part because once again one candidate had little opposition.

His pardoning this evening of the January 5th insurrectionists was no surprise, just one criminal pardoning others.

Please note I said nothing about the Carter Presidency, that was a minor part of his life.

I think the bigger dichotomy is how somebody that was as good a man as Jimmy Carter was said to be could also be such a completely shitty president. Yet this guy that you claimed to be a horrible evil convicted felon is 100 times more effective and better as a leader and a president than Jimmy Carter ever dreamed of being.

That’s the dichotomy

Some are born to be good people, others are born to be leaders, it’s very difficult to be both liked and lead at the same time.

And let’s not forget that through feckless ineffective leadership Jimmy Carter lead to the death of many heroic servicemen

 

[Illegal-shift]

As we both know, I tend to favor the right, but traditionally I have all I've always been exactly in the middle between moderate and far right, the fact that you think I am far right now says more about the political climate today than anything else, because the left which has never been further left, then it is now it's actually socialist /communist. And according to the left one on the right is on the far right, which is a ridiculous assertion, as I do not stand with white supremacists in any way shape or form.

Yes, there are a lot of supposedly smart people on the left however, I read someone like economist Paul Krugman and I think he's a freaking moron and he's one Nobel prize I think or some big prize. I read article articles in the Atlantic about how their needs to be a "Covid amnesty" for anyone who spewed misinformation and instilled draconian measures on the public. The left is all about not taking responsibility for anything for me instead of a Covid amnesty, they should be in jail at the very least. So even though I read both sides and some things on the right make me cringe. I certainly lean in that direction.

We are already doing our share in the US to help with the climate, joining the Paris accord would be just stupidity again and China and India absolutely matter. Let's face it. The climate is going to change no matter what we do and there is no evidence that anything we do will have a long lasting effect one way or the other. And no scientist worth his salt would swear on his life that that was true, sorry ...

One quick point.......BOTH the right and left have gotten more extreme. Reagan republicans have a hard time finding any room in the party these days (remember the days of trying to balance the budget, being tough on Russia, when Character mattered, etc.). I was a very strong supporter of Reagan, but not MAGA.

If we can't do anything about climate change.....explain to me how China and India matter? We can't stop it anyway. If you think they matter in this you must be giving some credence to the notion that we might be able to do something to effect change.

 

[FresnoGator]

One quick point.......BOTH the right and left have gotten more extreme. Reagan republicans have a hard time finding any room in the party these days (remember the days of trying to balance the budget, being tough on Russia, when Character mattered, etc.). I was a very strong supporter of Reagan, but not MAGA.

If we can't do anything about climate change.....explain to me how China and India matter? We can't stop it anyway. If you think they matter in this you must be giving some credence to the notion that we might be able to do something to effect change.

Well, I think we should try and reduce emissions anyway for our overall health, but if you're trying to solve global warming or climate change or anything else, that's not a solvable problem. The air in China and India is so thick. You can cut it with a knife., I'd prefer to the US never get to that point, but that has nothing to do with the para accord, which is just complete globalist bullshit ...

 

[jsfgators]

Each person should be judged on their own actions. A blanket pardon will not be remembered in a positive light by history. It is essentially saying.....yes, some of you broke the law, but since you did it for me you can go free. And Biden did something similar with some of his pardons. A pox on both your houses.

You guys are pushing so hard for "your side" you miss the bigger picture. American will never be great again until we find a way to stop the "us vs them" mentality that has a strangle hold on so many Americans. We can't survive over the long run without fixing this........if its even fixable. You may win the battle, but America is clearly losing the war.

There is getting to be a lot more people on “my side “ than there are on “their side”. Sounds like a them problem. We are just getting started. When the democrats come to the center and stop with the birthing persons, chest feeder trannies telling stories to school children maybe we can start to have a conversation. Until then, crush them without mercy.

 

[instaGATOR]

My first time on this thread and I've only skip read through some of the posts.
And what I've gotten out of it is a mild case of depression.... 🤔

Votes and elections that can be stolen.
Lazy and willfully ignorant excuses for sovereign citizens that are neglecting their free citizen responsibilities. (throw the traitorous corrupt bas-tads out)

Even a full blown REVOLUTION would fail imoho, because there are none available here now to restart it that are anything like the quality of the original Founding Fathers.

I'm actually kinda glad that I'm as old as dirt and will be taking my long awaited dirt-nap before to long. In somewhere between at best 15 years, and at worst 15 minutes, with no clue which it's going to be.... (middle 70's with already a massive heart attack w/stent installed)

I've always been somewhat of a problem solver, but I'm coming up empty on fixing this cluster.

Angels = Original translation in Hebrew is 'messenger.'
Other sects = 'intermediaries'
That would be for the ET's, or the gods that have been coming here since our very beginnings.
'Made in OUR image.'

My idea of an omnipotent-omnipresent creator GOD of the Infinite Universe does not need 'flaming chariots' to come down to Earth. But GOD's return, or at least taking an active hand in things might be our only salvation. -- Unless his gods (ET's) are soon to return in the open and save all of our sorry butts from self-destruction.....
Now, ya'wl all have a pleasant and cheerful evening after reading that stuff..... 😉
(paybacks for me reading almost two pages of yawl's bs seems fair to me)

 

[Nicktheslick]

Why am I a skeptic on climate change, and not to whether it's occurring because it's constantly occurring, but to it's causation and solution? I am a skeptic because I do not trust that government is gonna give me
the truth on anything rather than give me half truths or lies to support an agenda driven line of thinking.

I have been telling my wife for many years that the greatest shortage of anything on earth is TRUTH, pure unadulterated truth.

You don't have to look back in the history books for examples when we all just have experienced one of earth's and our country's greatest crisis, that being Covid. Lies, lies, and more lies from the World Health Organization and then from health agencies in our own country. Look at the harm done to our own people because of wrong information or flat out lies. Be sure and stay 6 feet apart. Just made up bull s**t. And now the main source of lies just got a pardon.

The point is that I have zero faith in any govt entity telling me the whole truth if it runs counter to the agenda that is being pushed. So why the hell should I believe govt telling me anything about causes and solutions to climate change, an interesting phrase in itself which can be used more universally than the previous global warming.

Just to highlight this again. Who in their right mind would take a shot that has not even remotely been tested enough for use on human beings?

 

[treygator29]

Who first used that word? Maddow, maybe?

Not sure. Definitely became the word the propagandists liked to use