Which is a violation of their Constitutional rights.
Oh well, we need to just move on. Just because it happened to them doesn't mean it could happen to the rest of us.
Speaker Johnson releases the Jan 6th tapes
- Thread starter GhostOfMatchesMalone
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Oh well, we need to just move on. Just because it happened to them doesn't mean it could happen to the rest of us.
@GatorTheo are you saying this thugs shooting and killing of a an unarmed citizen is possibly justified ?
It doesn't matter that she's 'unarmed'....just like it doesn't matter when 'unarmed' people acting up get shot by the cops.
If someone is breaking in your bedroom window, do you take a moment to see if they're armed or not?
Which is a violation of their Constitutional rights.
I just wish the Repubs would finally stand up and do something about it. Congress needs to take control of DC back. To my eyes, this "home rule" experiment hasn't worked.
A lot of pubs in Congress, including people like Gaetz and MTG have had tough words about Jan6th defendants, but have done nothing about it.
If Trump gets back in, I suspect 99% will get pardons, but that only happens if we refuse to allow them to steal the next election as well. If we allow the Jan 6th defendants to stay in jail in violation of their Constitutional Rights, then I don't know why we would challenge ANOTHER election getting stolen.
@BamaFan1137 .....you want to comment on this since you know more about this subject than anyone posting here? I disagree with this statement.
I saw the video of the shooting and the events leading up to the shooting after it happened. No idea if it still exists on the interwebz. Based on that short video, and only on that video, it appeared to be justified imo.
But I absolutely agree that there must be a thorough investigation. I'm actually of the opinion that there was an investigation...it just hasn't been made public. That's not unheard of.
Also, I believe that he was placed on Administrative Leave, to the best of my recollection, and that he either did not return to active duty or that he wasn't able to for an extended period of time (also not uncommon after a shooting, even if it's ruled justified).
Also just my opinion, the lack of transparency here is fueling this fire. My position, based on what I know, is that it's a tragedy that Babbit died...but I tend to agree with his call. If I understand the situation as well as I think I do, I believe that I would have made the same one...and then lived with that guilt for the rest of my days.
You are correct...IF it is reasonable to believe that yourself, or others, are in danger of death or serious physical harm.
There are countless scenarios where such a shooting would be reasonable...such as...verbal threats of violence, an object in their possession that you reasonably believed was a weapon, being heavily outnumbered vs a group who appear intent to cause you or others harm. Even the time of day and the circumstances surrounding the event (breaking into your home or into a secure area of a facility) would come into play.
The totality of circumstances comes into play so I agree with Theo here.
This is a serious issue that we're facing in this country...and not just in regards to this case. But yes, it's also VERY true in this case as well.
The 6th amendment guarantees the right to a speedy trial. Unfortunately it does a poor job of defining what that looks like. IMO the only solution is to clearly define it across a spectrum of different types of cases (ie capital murder, violent felonies, non-violent felonies, general misdemeanors, misdemeanors involving violence, ect.)
I did not realize that investigations were conducted in secret, however, Florida has a "sunshine" law. And this is Federal.
They can be. I'm merely assuming that this is what happened here and I'd be stupefied if that wasn't the case. IMO that veil should be lifted.
Even in Florida a judge can overrule the Sunshine Law. The most likely scenario for that ruling...
Examples of exemptions of the Sunshine Law......constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy, or endanger the safety of law enforcement personnel.
Specifically the second part of that sentence in this situation.
Again, imo, I think that you could make a great case that the public good, as well as interests of this specific officer, are better served by not exempting here. Air it out.
Then again, if his statements after the fact would tend to harm him, and the case for justifiable homicide, despite the fact that an investigative body and/or Grand Jury ruled in his favor, then I at least understand the desire to keep it under wraps.
Is that justice? Clearly it is not.
How so?
Sincerely asking...do you not believe that a reasonable person would believe that he, or those with him, were in danger if that group of people had successfully made their way into that secure area?
It has been a long time since I've seen the video (a week or so after the event) but truth be told, I believe that it was reasonable to assume that they were in danger.
I just watched it again. It seems reasonable to believe that they were in danger imho.
Video Shows Fatal Shooting of Ashli Babbitt at U.S. Capitol
Footage taken inside the U.S. Capitol shows the moments leading up to the shooting of Ashli Babbitt as supporters of President Donald Trump rushed toward the Speaker’s Lobby. The video was licensed from a self-described civil rights activist.
www.nbcwashington.com
Here is my problem. The officers in front of the doors, moved out of the way and let the "mob" try to break the door down. And there was a fEllow officer standing basically behind her and if the other officer mis-shot, he could have easily killed another officer.How so?
Sincerely asking...do you not believe that a reasonable person would believe that he, or those with him, were in danger if that group of people had successfully made their way into that secure area?
It has been a long time since I've seen the video (a week or so after the event) but truth be told, I believe that it was reasonable to assume that they were in danger.
I just watched it again. It seems reasonable to believe that they were in danger imho.
Video Shows Fatal Shooting of Ashli Babbitt at U.S. Capitol
Footage taken inside the U.S. Capitol shows the moments leading up to the shooting of Ashli Babbitt as supporters of President Donald Trump rushed toward the Speaker’s Lobby. The video was licensed from a self-described civil rights activist.
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The mob created a chaotic situation. Random shit's gonna happen. It's not a scripted movie.
If you're thinking of the same video I saw, the one i saw had an officer with his gun pointed on the window and the second a body part came through he fired.How so?
Sincerely asking...do you not believe that a reasonable person would believe that he, or those with him, were in danger if that group of people had successfully made their way into that secure area?
It has been a long time since I've seen the video (a week or so after the event) but truth be told, I believe that it was reasonable to assume that they were in danger.
I just watched it again. It seems reasonable to believe that they were in danger imho.
Video Shows Fatal Shooting of Ashli Babbitt at U.S. Capitol
Footage taken inside the U.S. Capitol shows the moments leading up to the shooting of Ashli Babbitt as supporters of President Donald Trump rushed toward the Speaker’s Lobby. The video was licensed from a self-described civil rights activist.
What I saw suggested he was trying to kill any person that breached the building. And the window was about 6 feet in the air if I remember correctly, so even if she had come through she would have fell to the ground and could have been easily subdued IMO.
Maybe I saw a different video. The one I saw looked more like an execution than anything else.
They moved after they were warned. The guy who warned them said they were getting through one way or another. The officers didn't move because they were good with the whole situation. They moved because they too believed they were in danger.
Babbit went to crawl through the opening the mob had created and the officer inside shot after pointing his gun in that direction for several (20???) seconds.
Again, it's a sad situation but Babbit herself and the others in that mob are at least as responsible for her death as anyone else involved.
The one I saw showed them all inside the building already.... inside a stairwell I believe.
Babbit crawled through a broken glass section of the door or the window next to the door. It was maybe 3 feet off the ground.
He probably could have subdued her...but what about the next 20 people that came through?
Babbit could have heeded the warning and not gone through the broken window/door where the LEO was pointing his gun. That seems reasonable.
Because they had videos of these people, and 99% of them were people walking right by security...talking to the officers. I do not know this particular instance to be fair, and have ZERO problems with an officer defending themselves. However you had better never shoot a black person that is unarmed....under any circumstance. We have ALL seen what happens when someone does.How so?
Sincerely asking...do you not believe that a reasonable person would believe that he, or those with him, were in danger if that group of people had successfully made their way into that secure area?
It has been a long time since I've seen the video (a week or so after the event) but truth be told, I believe that it was reasonable to assume that they were in danger.
I just watched it again. It seems reasonable to believe that they were in danger imho.
Video Shows Fatal Shooting of Ashli Babbitt at U.S. Capitol
Footage taken inside the U.S. Capitol shows the moments leading up to the shooting of Ashli Babbitt as supporters of President Donald Trump rushed toward the Speaker’s Lobby. The video was licensed from a self-described civil rights activist.
Me too...I may be way off base. Because I lean HEAVILY on the side of the law in these instancesHow so?
Sincerely asking...do you not believe that a reasonable person would believe that he, or those with him, were in danger if that group of people had successfully made their way into that secure area?
It has been a long time since I've seen the video (a week or so after the event) but truth be told, I believe that it was reasonable to assume that they were in danger.
I just watched it again. It seems reasonable to believe that they were in danger imho.
Video Shows Fatal Shooting of Ashli Babbitt at U.S. Capitol
Footage taken inside the U.S. Capitol shows the moments leading up to the shooting of Ashli Babbitt as supporters of President Donald Trump rushed toward the Speaker’s Lobby. The video was licensed from a self-described civil rights activist.
Watch the video I posted above.
I've seen the videos of people walking past guards as well. It was often friendly...in both directions ftr.
This wasn't like that. This was more like your typical mob. It wasn't friendly.
Remember that coup where the insurrectionists warned the cops to move out of the way?
Me too...but I also believe that I'm capable of calling BS when I see it.
In this instance, I think that the officer was reasonable in believing that the lives or well-being of the people in that room were being threatened by those in the stairwell. It's entirely possible that he was wrong...meaning I'm wrong too. But that's my instinct.
The crowd screamed "gun" when he drew his weapon and pointed it towards the opening. Why in the hell would she go through it at that point? It doesn't make sense.
I get your point but I've never called it a coup or an insurrection. And I don't believe that it was an insurrection.
I think you had people in a stairwell that got their dander up, fed off one another, and decided that they were coming through and no one was going to stop them...including the guy pointing a gun at the broken door/window.
Oh, Im just amused by that part, based on the video I believe he acted reasonably.
It was an insurrection, as any revolt against government is by definition an insurrection, with or without violence.
It was not anywhere close to a coup.
Hypothetical...I'm in plain clothes and I happen upon that scene in the stairwell....
I'm going to try to warn those people that if they continue to try and force their way in, someone is going to get hurt or killed. That was the mood in that stairwell.
They probably wouldn't have listened to me but, as I said before, that would have been my instinct.
I'm going to try to warn those people that if they continue to try and force their way in, someone is going to get hurt or killed. That was the mood in that stairwell.
They probably wouldn't have listened to me but, as I said before, that would have been my instinct.
I thought about it and situations like this call for fire hoses and less than lethal munitions, by a response team trained in riot control.
I don't recall any education on mind reading from a distance in the academy, there's no telling how a crowd will react to one of their own being tased or sprayed with OC.
They were certainly behaving lawlessly. I suppose that in some way is an insurrection. But like you said, I think they were trying to get their voices heard rather than "take over the government."
You bring up another good point and shed light on others who bear responsibility...
Not being prepared for the event, allowing people to flow through brazenly (which gave them confidence that what they were doing was ok) and not being capable of shutting that crap down...on top of possibly escalating tensions outside (if that's true) the Capital before the crowd lost their crap....those people are partially responsibile for Babbit's death as well.
This thing snowballed to the point of predictable tragedy.
Fire hoses are VERY useful and impactful (no pun intended) in shutting crap like that down.
Unfortunately some asshat named Bull Connor ruined that for us in this country. It's still very useful elsewhere.
In my experience it depends on numbers. If an unruly crowd believes that they can overwhelm the use of pepper spray and/or tasers, they tend to become emboldened and they go the attack.
Herd mentality is a real thing and people will do incredibly stupid ish when under that spell that they wouldn't attempt otherwise.
PS....the worst thing LE can do is begin with something that's only slightly annoying like those pepper balls. That gives nutty people confidence as well.
A mob requires a punch in the nose right from the jump imho....like a giant ass fire hose.
All things being equal, most people aren't going to charge someone that has already demonstrated he will use deadly force.
That would be the "find out" portion of the slogan, would it not?
Attack the messenger when you can't attack the message?
His particular sexual proclivities and pet conspiracy theories have nothing to do with the fact that we the people have been sold a completely different idea of what occurred on January 6th than what actually transpired, and the video evidence he released seems to have angered all the people doing the selling, no?
