Okay agnostic/atheistic thinking minds - What is life and when did it originate?

[kjfreeze]

Simple answer God is life. God made life. Other than that, good luck with trying to figure it out.
For example, one might ask, "When does life begin?"
"Oh, that's simple. Life begins at conception when sperm meets egg."
"No, the sperm already has life as well as the egg. It's called innate intelligence. How did the egg and sperm get this innate intelligence?"
The only answer is from God. If you've got another explanation, let me hear it. It'll be wrong, but I'd like to hear it anyway.
Every cell in our body has this "life energy" that begins from the egg and sperm uniting and having everything needed to form a human being. But where did every cell get this "life energy" to run? It's sort of like an automobile. You've got an automobile sitting in the driveway. It has a potential to start. It has all the material already set up to function. It needs someone to insert the key into the ignition and turn it on. That turning of the ignition is the spark of life that cannot be explained in the human being except for the only answer being God. And it's a continual passing on of this life energy from the beginning of human existence to every one of us. Human life didn't originate from a lightening bolt hitting pond scum either. Because if that were the case, you'd have to ask yourself where did the lightening bolt and pond scum come from? That concept was in my paleontology book I used in a class I took in college. It was the theoretical proof that the teacher proclaimed and taught as fact. Jeez.

Anyway, I guess I'm bored right now and felt this might be a diversion from politics. Let's discuss the existence of God and life.

 

[EvilWayz]

Let's do this!

1. What came before God? "God was always there" is not an acceptable answer.

2.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
-Epicurus

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

Let's do this!

1. What came before God? "God was always there" is not an acceptable answer.

2.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
-Epicurus

Regarding #2:

The classic Christian apologetic answer is that “evil” is basically a state of separation from God. This separation was necessary to allow free will.

 

[EvilWayz]

Regarding #2:

The classic Christian apologetic answer is that “evil” is basically a state of separation from God. This separation was necessary to allow free will.

Ok, then i follow up with how can predestination and free will exist simultaneously?

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

Regarding #1:

This is the “prime mover” issue. Who pushed the first causality domino that caused the rest to fall?

You may respond that there wasn’t actually a first domino to be pushed and there was no beginning. But this requires a logical paradox of an event occurring without a cause. In an atheistic/materialist universe governed by the laws of physics, this should be impossible.

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

Ok, then i follow up with how can predestination and free will exist simultaneously?

I may be wrong about this, but my impression is that only a minority of Christians believe in predestination.

 

[EvilWayz]

In an atheistic/materialist universe governed by the laws of physics, this should be impossible.

I agree. However that's not the issue at hand. While I don't know the rules that govern immortals, generally if something exists it has a beginning and an eventual end.

Other things I always wondered. If God didn't invent people, he wouldn't have needed to send his only son to be sacrificed for the sins of mankind. For that matter, he didn't have to sacrifice Jesus in the first place, he could have had a burning bush or a talking bird or something say ok, we're starting over.

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

I agree. However that's not the issue at hand. While I don't know the rules that govern immortals, generally if something exists it has a beginning and an eventual end.

Other things I always wondered. If God didn't invent people, he wouldn't have needed to send his only son to be sacrificed for the sins of mankind. For that matter, he didn't have to sacrifice Jesus in the first place, he could have had a burning bush or a talking bird or something say ok, we're starting over.

To be honest, I agree with you here. The premise of God needing to sacrifice his son to cleanse everyone’s sins has the scent of early Christians needing an explanation for why their messiah was killed. They were expecting a superhero who would liberate Judea and rule the new kingdom. Instead, he was crucified.

 

[EvilWayz]

Its not the first religion where this happens. Osiris and Mithras are two good examples of the dying and reviving God.

 

[EvilWayz]

Also how come football teams always thank God for their wins but blame themselves for their losses?

 

[martycat1]

If you two get any replies I will be supprised. No one is going to cast pearls.

 

[martycat1]

Ok, then i follow up with how can predestination and free will exist simultaneously?

It wont.

 

[martycat1]

Ok, then i follow up with how can predestination and free will exist simultaneously?

It wont.

 

[martycat1]

Its not the first religion where this happens. Osiris and Mithras are two good examples of the dying and reviving God.

Only one God.

 

[martycat1]

To be honest, I agree with you here. The premise of God needing to sacrifice his son to cleanse everyone’s sins has the scent of early Christians needing an explanation for why their messiah was killed. They were expecting a superhero who would liberate Judea and rule the new kingdom. Instead, he was crucified.

I have typed and deleted and typed and deleted. The reason is, it so simple to understand. But I have a hard time dumbing down myself to explain it. Or maybe it is my faith and I am far more educated than you are just like you feel the same about us Christians.

 

[kjfreeze]

Okay gentleman, how does a finite mind grasp the infinite? It doesn't, therefore this notion of who created God or how could God be forever is something we cannot grasp just as the notion that the universe has no end. If it did, then logic assumes there has to be something beyond the finite universe. And to go just the opposite, consider infinite smallness. You can take an electron microscope and find the smallest of particles known to man. Then science makes an even stronger microscope and finds even smaller particles. In other words, there is infinite smallness also. But none of you told me how life exists? How life was created? I did. You didn't. You danced around belittling Christianity.

Its not the first religion where this happens. Osiris and Mithras are two good examples of the dying and reviving God.

You need to review a little closer and recognize the HUGE differences, namely Jesus died and came back to life and was witnessed by hundreds of people. Christianity is the ONLY religion that worships a God that died and came back to life.

 

[kjfreeze]

Let's do this!

1. What came before God? "God was always there" is not an acceptable answer.

2.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
-Epicurus

Still no answer? All you could do is blast a religion that believes in God. And who are YOU to ask such questions?
I love it when God speaks to Job in Job 38-40:

Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

2 “Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3 Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?
Tell me, if you know all this.

19 “What is the way to the abode of light?
And where does darkness reside?
20 Can you take them to their places?
Do you know the paths to their dwellings?
21 Surely you know, for you were already born!
You have lived so many years!
“Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades?
Can you loosen Orion’s belt?
32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons
or lead out the Bear with its cubs?
33 Do you know the laws of the heavens?
Can you set up God’s dominion over the earth?

“Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

8 “Would you discredit my justice?
Would you condemn me to justify yourself?

It's easy to talk boldly, but a day will come...

 

[EvilWayz]

Okay gentleman, how does a finite mind grasp the infinite? It doesn't, therefore this notion of who created God or how could God be forever is something we cannot grasp just as the notion that the universe has no end. If it did, then logic assumes there has to be something beyond the finite universe. And to go just the opposite, consider infinite smallness. You can take an electron microscope and find the smallest of particles known to man. Then science makes an even stronger microscope and finds even smaller particles. In other words, there is infinite smallness also. But none of you told me how life exists? How life was created? I did. You didn't. You danced around belittling Christianity.


You need to review a little closer and recognize the HUGE differences, namely Jesus died and came back to life and was witnessed by hundreds of people. Christianity is the ONLY religion that worships a God that died and came back to life.

You danced around belittling Christianity.

When did I do that exactly?

You didn't answer the question, because you don't know anymore than I do. You have faith. Which is belief in absence of proof. Which is fine, if you had proof you wouldn't need faith. But while that's good enough for you, you can't expect it to be a good enough reason for everyone.

 

[EvilWayz]

Still no answer? All you could do is blast a religion that believes in God. And who are YOU to ask such questions?
I love it when God speaks to Job in Job 38-40:

Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

2 “Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3 Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?
Tell me, if you know all this.

19 “What is the way to the abode of light?
And where does darkness reside?
20 Can you take them to their places?
Do you know the paths to their dwellings?
21 Surely you know, for you were already born!
You have lived so many years!
“Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades?
Can you loosen Orion’s belt?
32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons
or lead out the Bear with its cubs?
33 Do you know the laws of the heavens?
Can you set up God’s dominion over the earth?

“Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

8 “Would you discredit my justice?
Would you condemn me to justify yourself?

It's easy to talk boldly, but a day will come...

Job is exactly why I'll never be a Christian.

 

[martycat1]

Job is exactly why I'll never be a Christian.

Tell me why. Just for conversation.

 

[martycat1]

Job is exactly why I'll never be a Christian.

I would take a life of Job to have his soul.

 

[EvilWayz]

Tell me why. Just for conversation.

Here's what I got from the book of Job.

Here was Job, prospering and minding his own business.
Along comes Satan, and God says look at my servant Job. Isn't he awesome and worshipful?
And Satan says he's only like that because you reward him. If things went the other way, he would give up on you. So instead of telling Satan nobody cares what you think, he turns Satan loose on Job and his family and his servants and everything he owns. So Satan goes buck wild, kills everyone, destroys his stuff and leaves Job all alone and covered in filth and sores.
And Job still believes.

So basically God turned Jobs life upside down to win a bet with one of his own wayward creations.

Who's to say he wouldn't do it again?

 

[martycat1]

Here's what I got from the book of Job.

Here was Job, prospering and minding his own business.
Along comes Satan, and God says look at my servant Job. Isn't he awesome and worshipful?
And Satan says he's only like that because you reward him. If things went the other way, he would give up on you. So instead of telling Satan nobody cares what you think, he turns Satan loose on Job and his family and his servants and everything he owns. So Satan goes buck wild, kills everyone, destroys his stuff and leaves Job all alone and covered in filth and sores.
And Job still believes.

So basically God turned Jobs life upside down to win a bet with one of his own wayward creations.

Who's to say he wouldn't do it again?

And you still cant get the message of what God did? Do you realize where Job is today? Your destiny is not for earth. Your body will go back to ashes. Where will your soul go. God gave Job the easy way out.

 

[martycat1]

And you still cant get the message of what God did? Do you realize where Job is today? Your destiny is not for earth. Your body will go back to ashes. Where will your soul go. God gave Job the easy way out.

 

[EvilWayz]

And you still cant get the message of what God did? Do you realize where Job is today? Your destiny is not for earth. Your body will go back to ashes. Where will your soul go. God gave Job the easy way out.

I'd have to believe in souls for that to be an incentive. What I see is mindless cruelty for no good reason. That's not the behavior of a loving deity.

 

[BSC911]

If God is all powerful, can he make a Boulder that even He can’t lift?

 

[BamaFan1137]

Regarding #2:

The classic Christian apologetic answer is that “evil” is basically a state of separation from God. This separation was necessary to allow free will.

And #1 fails on its own.

 

[BamaFan1137]

Ok, then i follow up with how can predestination and free will exist simultaneously?

By omnipotence.

 

[DCandtheUTBand]

What does physics say? What lies outside the universe? Is time an illusion? Has everything already transpired? According to physics can something come from nothing?

When Moses talked to God what did God answer as to His Name?

Did His answer shed light on these questions?

Physicist Brian Greene

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/the-fabric-of-the-cosmos-the-illusion-of-time/

 

[BSC911]

By omnipotence.

Non answer.

 

[BSC911]

Simple answer God is life. God made life. Other than that, good luck with trying to figure it out.
For example, one might ask, "When does life begin?"
"Oh, that's simple. Life begins at conception when sperm meets egg."
"No, the sperm already has life as well as the egg. It's called innate intelligence. How did the egg and sperm get this innate intelligence?"
The only answer is from God. If you've got another explanation, let me hear it. It'll be wrong, but I'd like to hear it anyway.
Every cell in our body has this "life energy" that begins from the egg and sperm uniting and having everything needed to form a human being. But where did every cell get this "life energy" to run? It's sort of like an automobile. You've got an automobile sitting in the driveway. It has a potential to start. It has all the material already set up to function. It needs someone to insert the key into the ignition and turn it on. That turning of the ignition is the spark of life that cannot be explained in the human being except for the only answer being God. And it's a continual passing on of this life energy from the beginning of human existence to every one of us. Human life didn't originate from a lightening bolt hitting pond scum either. Because if that were the case, you'd have to ask yourself where did the lightening bolt and pond scum come from? That concept was in my paleontology book I used in a class I took in college. It was the theoretical proof that the teacher proclaimed and taught as fact. Jeez.

Anyway, I guess I'm bored right now and felt this might be a diversion from politics. Let's discuss the existence of God and life.

To answer your thread title, An agnostic would say they don’t know.

 

[EvilWayz]

And #1 fails on its own.

I told you God always was isn't a correct answer. Not for a non Christian.

 

[EvilWayz]

By omnipotence.

They contradict each other. Either God has a plan or you have free will, can't have both.

 

[DCandtheUTBand]

I told you God always was isn't a correct answer. Not for a non Christian.

Why not? Physics rejects ex nihilo so something can NOT come from nothing. Therefore something has to have always existed. How does God answer Moses when asked about His identity?

Have you watched the PBS video I linked above? It is secular but the "truths" discovered are not alien to the Christian. I laughed and said well the Bible already says this. Prophecy and miracles are God's business card. Anyway watch the video.

 

[martycat1]

I'd have to believe in souls for that to be an incentive. What I see is mindless cruelty for no good reason. That's not the behavior of a loving deity.

I wish I had the words for non Christians. And although in my first sentence I say that. I keep getting reminded not to cast pearls.

 

[BamaFan1137]

Non answer.

No it isn't.

The book is written AND you're free to choose.

 

[BamaFan1137]

I told you God always was isn't a correct answer. Not for a non Christian.

Your rules?

Respectfully, f@(k your rules.

What is 1+1...and you're not allowed to say 2.

 

[BamaFan1137]

They contradict each other. Either God has a plan or you have free will, can't have both.

That's simply not true. You have free will...He just knows what you will ultimately choose.

You see the story page by page. The entire book is unfolded before Him.

 

[BamaFan1137]

Why not? Physics rejects ex nihilo so something can NOT come from nothing. Therefore something has to have always existed. How does God answer Moses when asked about His identity?

Have you watched the PBS video I linked above? It is secular but the "truths" discovered are not alien to the Christian. I laughed and said well the Bible already says this. Prophecy and miracles are God's business card. Anyway watch the video.

To your point, it's actually more difficult, logically speaking, to not believe in a higher power.

 

[DCandtheUTBand]

I like the story when Jesus punk'd Peter with a fish that had a coin in its mouth. So here is Peter confronted with a troubling question and he lies about paying a tax in order to prevent Jesus from being accused of being a bad Jew.

When he returns, Jesus immediately confronts him proving His omniscience and omnipresence , exposes his error and gives Peter a way out.

Jesus does not have to pay this tax but He sends the fisherman out to fish and earn the money for this tax. Exactly as He tells Peter the first fish he lands will have a coin in its mouth to pay the tax for Him and Peter proving His omnipotence.

Meanwhile you know Peter had to feel like a dunce after all of that and the angels all had a good laugh watching it all unfold.