How is Florida so inept at Offense?
- Thread starter SwamiG8R
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He completed 66% of his passes with 10 tds and 3 int and you were undefeated...... He wasn't perfect but he was far and away better than Treon, LDR, or Appleby. I disagree that system trumps players. No system has won a national title without great players. Petrino and Leach haven't won National titles because they haven't had the best players. Take FSU for example, we have had 3 National titles, in those 3 seasons, we had 3 Heisman QB's. Look at the Gators titles, DW and Timmy were both a part of those. Leak wasn't the best but he was above avg. Meyer ran the same system with Brantley that he did as Tebow and it wasn't as effective. You can scheme all day long but at the end of the day the QB has to make the right decision and the right throw. Im not saying system is irrelevant. It is very important but I would put having a QB slightly above that. For example, Bill Belichek was the head coach of the browns and was fired. He got Tom Brady who has now won 201 games and 4 or 5 super bowls. Yes the Pats do well when brady isn't playing because the system is good but they wont win the super bowl with Brady because you need the QB. Is this fair?
Well for starters our schedule was front loaded with terrible defenses, I've posted the statistics here numerous times. So put those numbers into context. Secondly, our defense were winning us the majority of the games. Grier got benched against ECU, was flat awful for three quarters against UT, led the offense to only 14 points against a 5-7 UK team with a terrible defense, etc. To say he was lighting it up or was the reason we were undefeated is revisionist history.
And system is always gonna matter more because a system that doesn't feature the strengths of the players won't go anywhere no matter how good that player is. Do you think Jameis Winston could play in Chip Kelly's spread option? No, but that wouldn't mean he's any less of a player. It would mean he's in a system that doesn't fit him. Tebow was a great college QB, but he couldn't have played in a prostyle system. He'd look just about like how Driskel looked here and everyone would think he sucks when the issue would just be that he's in a system that accentuates all his flaws while featuring none of his strengths. Lamar Jackson would be a WR in just about any other offense but for Petrino he's a Heisman candidate. A great player with no direction won't accomplish anything. I could keep going. You need great players in a system tailored to them. Just having great players isn't gonna uplift a shit system, it does not work that way.
And I think your point about the Patriots perfectly illustrates what I'm saying.
The Patriots took a dude in Cassell who hadn't started a game since HS and won 11 games. Why? Because of the system. Now to your point a great player in Brady helps take that system to the next level. But to my point the system was already good enough to allow a lesser player to put up good results. Hell the Patriots were what...3-1 without Brady this year? So that illustrates the point that you need a system that at least produces good results regardless of player. Then great players will take that system to the next level and help you win championships. So I don't disagree that you need great players, you just need a starting point. In our case the system is shit so having a great player isn't gonna take it to the next level. You need a system that allows great players to be great first.
The Patriots took a dude in Cassell who hadn't started a game since HS and won 11 games. Why? Because of the system. Now to your point a great player in Brady helps take that system to the next level. But to my point the system was already good enough to allow a lesser player to put up good results. Hell the Patriots were what...3-1 without Brady this year? So that illustrates the point that you need a system that at least produces good results regardless of player. Then great players will take that system to the next level and help you win championships. So I don't disagree that you need great players, you just need a starting point. In our case the system is shit so having a great player isn't gonna take it to the next level. You need a system that allows great players to be great first.
I don't care if you have the best play caller in the world.. if you don't have a qb that can make the reads and the throws it isn't going to work. This year and last the offensive problems have been the qb not play calling. Yes there are some plays that make you say " What the F was that" but receivers get open. Bama DB couldn't stay with our guys most of the time. Next year if we are having the same problem then that means Mac and Nuss cant develop qb's. The system is fine, unfortunately because I don't like Nuss.
I completely agree. I think system matters a lot but I do think having the right players matters more. I think we are seeing somewhat of a normal ground. System has to be tailored to the player, that is an absolute must. Like you said, Jameis wouldn't have looked as good at Oregon as he did at FSU. Tebow wouldn't have looked as good at FSU as he did at UF. The system does matter but without the right players, the system fails.
Just so all cards are on the table, I don't like the Gators OC, he is way too predictable.
As far as Will Grier goes, not saying he was great but he is better than Treon, LDR, or Appleby. He played okay against Tenn, he threw for 280 and had 2tds. Kentucky and ECU were not great games but I thought he played well against Ole Miss, NM state, and Miss. Tenn he was up and down.
Taylor1027,
How is it other teams can take ex-walkons and have them throwing for 4,000 yards is talent is the be-all end all? Our results alone refute that unless you think 114 other teams have better offensive players than UF. Even as bad as LDR and Appleby were, Appleby was an elite 11 QB. Meaning a bunch of other schools would kill to have him. If damn near every QB we roll out there keeps having the same problems then at what point do people start looking at the guys running the offense? Idk why the two have to be mutually exclusive. You can have a bad QB and a bad system. In our case, its both.
How is it other teams can take ex-walkons and have them throwing for 4,000 yards is talent is the be-all end all? Our results alone refute that unless you think 114 other teams have better offensive players than UF. Even as bad as LDR and Appleby were, Appleby was an elite 11 QB. Meaning a bunch of other schools would kill to have him. If damn near every QB we roll out there keeps having the same problems then at what point do people start looking at the guys running the offense? Idk why the two have to be mutually exclusive. You can have a bad QB and a bad system. In our case, its both.
Exactly!
Fire the entire coaching staff for their demonstrated incompetence.
Empty the entire ship roster for their demonstrated incompetence.
Let volunteer coaches run the team, made up entirely of walk-ons, until they can convince all of the recruits that the ranking services rate as 5 stars, to agree to come to UF. A perfect and easy solutions to the many problems.
Fire the entire coaching staff for their demonstrated incompetence.
Empty the entire ship roster for their demonstrated incompetence.
Let volunteer coaches run the team, made up entirely of walk-ons, until they can convince all of the recruits that the ranking services rate as 5 stars, to agree to come to UF. A perfect and easy solutions to the many problems.
LOL@ Insta's meltdown over the last two days.
Baghdad Bob using his distraction tactics.
Baghdad Bob using his distraction tactics.
The heat is going to really get "officially" turned on when Grier starts lighting it up for WVU next season.
You mean because Mac preferres LDR? Or because Grier and his dad openly say that Mac forced him out?
Heat or Massive Buy-Out,,,, you make the call... 
(one negates the other, just in case you're to slow to understand that)
BTW, meltdown is pretty funny to me. It's almost Christmas, so I'm mostly 'laughing all the way',,, at the one's here that do their daily diss-melt-downs over irrelevant college football games.
(one negates the other, just in case you're to slow to understand that)
BTW, meltdown is pretty funny to me. It's almost Christmas, so I'm mostly 'laughing all the way',,, at the one's here that do their daily diss-melt-downs over irrelevant college football games.
Florida has three problems - no QB, no consistency with its assistant coaches, and impatient fans.
UF is making the same mistake now that it made with Champ - impatience.
If you look at successful programs, their coaches took them time and they brought in their assistants who stuck with the HC. You can't have success with new systems every year. Even Saban started slowly at Mich State. The one exception might be Meyer, but he changes jobs when the going gets tough and it too late to cry about that spilled milk now.
UF has recruited well, it just needs some of these QBs to pan out. Remember, UF recruited Cam Newton, and Burton and Grier were promising. FSU has had similar luck, with a 5-star QB getting kicked off the team (D'Andre Johnson), another QB transferring and winning a NC with his transfer school (Coker), "injuries" (Wyatt Sexton), guys not panning out (Sexton), etc. UF has been slighly unluckier, and the musical chairs with OCs and fan impatience has not helped.
If you are a blue chip QB prospect right now, facing a red shirt (5 years), you have to wonder whether this coaching staff will be intact in a year or two, let alone 5 years from now (only 4 years left on Mac's contract).
UF has tremendous resources permanent advantages in a huge stadium and fan/alumni base. If you guys had just average QB and ST play, you would have been in that game with Bama.
UF is making the same mistake now that it made with Champ - impatience.
If you look at successful programs, their coaches took them time and they brought in their assistants who stuck with the HC. You can't have success with new systems every year. Even Saban started slowly at Mich State. The one exception might be Meyer, but he changes jobs when the going gets tough and it too late to cry about that spilled milk now.
UF has recruited well, it just needs some of these QBs to pan out. Remember, UF recruited Cam Newton, and Burton and Grier were promising. FSU has had similar luck, with a 5-star QB getting kicked off the team (D'Andre Johnson), another QB transferring and winning a NC with his transfer school (Coker), "injuries" (Wyatt Sexton), guys not panning out (Sexton), etc. UF has been slighly unluckier, and the musical chairs with OCs and fan impatience has not helped.
If you are a blue chip QB prospect right now, facing a red shirt (5 years), you have to wonder whether this coaching staff will be intact in a year or two, let alone 5 years from now (only 4 years left on Mac's contract).
UF has tremendous resources permanent advantages in a huge stadium and fan/alumni base. If you guys had just average QB and ST play, you would have been in that game with Bama.
Really??? Seems to me Saban, Meyer, Chip Kelly, Chris Petersen, Jim Harbaugh, Bob Stoops, James franklin, Bobby Petrino, Tom Herman and the list goes on all flip things pretty damn quickly.
Your program is at those levels or very close. With a decent QB, you are equal or beyond.
look at Saban's record at Mich State. Has Petrino won the ACC? Franklin has 2 losses in the Big Ten, one to Pitt!
You have two consecutive CCG appearances. Granted, you are not competitive with Bama yet but who is? Washington is going to bet boat raced worse than UF did, and so would Penn State and and Michigan. You guys looked competent out there versus Bama but for the INTs and the special teams miscues. You get a competent QB and you are right there in that game.
You want to compare programs, look at Richt at UM or Smart at UGA - those programs changed coaches and took a step backwards.
This has all been debated in numerous threads, read those and tell me now close our 114th ranked offense is. smh
you are one decent QB away from respectability. its not as bad as you think it is. Its not a MacElwain issue, its a QB issue.
2010: 82nd
2011: 105th
2012: 103rd
2013: 113th
2014: 92nd
2015: 111th
2016: 114th
Just curious about something, I haven't looked into this yet. But how many OLineman that started against Bama were the same OLineman that started the football season, game one?
Yeah gunna be honest mcelwain doesnt strike me as the guy who can own fsu like meyer did. However, the qb is the main issue.
Not better talent. But appleby is just awful. U guys won the east based off of everyone else. U didnt make the playoffs becuz of ur qb. Not saying the system is perfect but when ur qb cant hit open receivers or throw 1 timing route. Its tough to beat good teams. I know the feeling of that all too well
There are at LEAST 60 teams with better QBs than Del Rio or Appleby. There's a reason those guys are not still at the schools they started with. I'm not a Nuss ball cupper by any means, but neither of those two are power conference quarterbacks. Still pissed we let Paxton Lynch get away. That was a Chump blunder though. Unlike some I do look at both line play and wide receivers on replays. WR's were missed so many times on complete jailbreaks this year, including games we did win. They were getting open, many times with nothing but grass in front of them.
We don't really know if the two freshmen will be good yet. I do know they couldn't have been worse. It might be time to start Trask in the bowl game to get ready for next year. Del Rio ain't the one.
It was very tough to watch that last game with a patchwork of offensive and defensive linemen and linebackers Saturday. That didn't help either.
I hate to agree with the nole, but it's the truth. Imagine if FSU had to play McGuire for whatever reason this year, they would have had a minimum of 5 losses. It is what it is.
Yep. Maguire is rotten. He is a tough guy, a warrior, tries hard, a good leader.... But he sucks at being quarterback and making basic throws/reads. No doubt we have 5, if not more than that in the loss column
So this is what we have been reduced to? We know accept multiple embarrassing losses each season just so we can hold out hope that a QB messiah will appear and rescue the program? REALLY?? Are we that far removed from winning that we have forgotten what it is like? Amazing some people keep saying it is going to be OK, give it time, things will improve...but there is honestly NO legitimate reason to believe that, nothing points it at all.
Different programs but i said something very similar around 2009 2010 about the noles. Fisher walks in and grabs the rapist and we win a natty. Ur not as far gone as u think
Agreed. What bothers me is that the coaching staff took so long to figure that out.
But Jimbo is an elite recruiter. Mac is a below average recruiter for a program of our caliber. You overlook the fact we lose a shit-ton of Chump defenders this year, many of them the key to our defensive success. I have said that the way to win a NC is a once in a generation QB or continued recruiting success. Sure if we land Winston or Cam we will be good. But, you are acting like if we get an average QB suddenly this will all work out. We still lack depth on both lines and are going to have a lot of unknowns on D next year. The sub par recruiting will begin to show next year. And we haven't even competed with pretty average FSU teams either of the last two years. Our system/philosophy is one that is outdated, and until Mac changes that I think we are stuck and going to struggle to attract elite talent
Smart worries me if he gets his head straight. His recruiting is lights out and they have some nice young talnt there.
First year with the right coach, and we will know right away. Maybe not in the wins and losses, but we will know it.
There have been 2 great coaches at Florida the last 30 years. They both took over teams that lost 6 games the year before. Did it take more than one season to see that we were headed in the right direction?
We've had three bad coaches in that timeframe. Can you not see the difference between their first seasons and the trajectory of the program under their watch?
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