Houston, we have a problem

[MJWilliamson]

....so, when do we get to discuss the big showdown between the ACC & SEC on January 11th? (new thread?)

Well, right now the score is 6-5 in favor of the SEC?

With the last game the NC game?

The ACC can only tie. The SEC can deliver a knock-out blow. Although in fairness, the NC game should probably count for more.

If Clemson wins, I am happy to admit that the ACC has made great strides, for the second straight year, against the SEC. It will mean that two ACC programs have won a NC. That is a bragging point most SEC fans make; our conference is both powerful and deep. Two NCs with two different teams in three years is significant.

 

[alaskanseminole]

Well, right now the score is 6-5 in favor of the SEC?

With the last game the NC game?

The ACC can only tie. The SEC can deliver a knock-out blow. Although in fairness, the NC game should probably count for more.

If Clemson wins, I am happy to admit that the ACC has made great strides, for the second straight year, against the SEC. It will mean that two ACC programs have won a NC. That is a bragging point most SEC fans make; our conference is both powerful and deep. Two NCs with two different teams in three years is significant.

Fair (honest) post that I can get on-board with. However, I was actually meaning the X's and O's of the game. How do these two teams match-up vs. one another?

 

[MJWilliamson]

Fair (honest) post that I can get on-board with. However, I was actually meaning the X's and O's of the game. How do these two teams match-up vs. one another?

Start another thread and let's talk about it

 

[SKSnole]

Whoops. I gave you credit for the integrity of another Nole.

It is time, FSU---Basketball edition

My bad. In my defense, the inane babbling from most Nole fans blends in together. It is hard to tell you guys apart sometimes.

So yes, it was my mistake to give you credit for a brief period of integrity. I won't do it again.

That was a very long winded, butt hurt "I was wrong".

 

[MJWilliamson]

Something you are not capable of doing. Apparently.

 

[SKSnole]

I sincerely hope you're on medication.

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

Well, right now the score is 6-5 in favor of the SEC?

With the last game the NC game?

The ACC can only tie. The SEC can deliver a knock-out blow. Although in fairness, the NC game should probably count for more.

If Clemson wins, I am happy to admit that the ACC has made great strides, for the second straight year, against the SEC. It will mean that two ACC programs have won a NC. That is a bragging point most SEC fans make; our conference is both powerful and deep. Two NCs with two different teams in three years is significant.

Clemson already has a national championship. They are playing for #2.

 

[SKSnole]

USF is very upset you ignored them in your discussion of the state's epic bowl fail.

USF had a solid regular season. Definitely a disappointing way for them to end the year as well.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Clemson already has a national championship. They are playing for #2.

sighhhh...I think you know I was talking about *recent* accomplishments.

 

[MJWilliamson]

I sincerely hope you're on medication.

I am. It is brown water.

What is your excuse?

Still can't tell us why you think FSU overachieved?

 

[SKSnole]

I am. It is brown water.

What is your excuse?

Still can't tell us why you think FSU overachieved?

Care to tell us why you think that prior to the bowl loss they hadn't? You had FSU making a New Year's 6 bowl? Following the GT loss - you had FSU finishing 9th and winning in Gainesville by 25?

Care to relive this thread? https://florida.forums.rivals.com/threads/lmfao.25100/

You guys have short memories.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Answer the question. Don't try and change the question. Why has FSU overachieved?

 

[alaskanseminole]

Answer the question. Don't try and change the question. Why has FSU overachieved?

They haven't. Period.

 

[SKSnole]

Answer the question. Don't try and change the question. Why has FSU overachieved?

With the bowl loss, they didn't. Which is what I said originally. During the regular season, you could certainly argue that they overachieved. Especially with the way they played from Syracuse through UF; capping the season with a 25 point road win against a top 10 team.

"FSU, up until last night, has done much better than I expected. I predicted at the beginning of the season they would be a three or four loss team. And that can still happen. But I also think it is just as likely they get to the end of the season with only two losses."

That's your quote from the thread I linked. Now you're wanting to argue with me about what I said. You're very BONG like in that you want to jump down everyone's throat but in doing so you contradict yourself at every turn. So, why don't you tell me why FSU had overachieved? Because, ya know, that's what you wrote.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Oh Dear. Bless your little heart.

I thought FSU would lose between 3 and 4 games this year. I said so several times

That is not overachieving.

You realize you are making *my* opinion your opinion?

No problem little brother.

 

[SKSnole]

Oh Dear. Bless your little heart.

Are you a 90 year old woman?

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

You enjoy pointing out that without Jameis, FSU is not as good.

Are you proposing that teams are better when they have an elite QB?

What sage insight!

Does your forecast of "maybe teams are better when they have better talent" also apply to UF, who I believe went 4-4 after Grier was suspended, with one of those wins coming in OT to a 3-9 FAU, and another by 2 points to a 4-8 Vandy?

Both FSU and UF suffered from a lack of a solid QB. Both programs were in rebuilding years, but FSU played their weak hand a better.

 

[MJWilliamson]

You enjoy pointing out that without Jameis, FSU is not as good.

Are you proposing that teams are better when they have an elite QB?

What sage insight!

Fair enough.

Yet Meyer won NCs with several different starting QBs. So did Bowden. As has Saban.

And all of those coaches had years where even when the are not NC champions, they create teams that are among the top tree or four teams in the nation.

It remains to be seen if Fisher can do that. So far, he is 0-4.

Does your forecast of "maybe teams are better when they have better talent" also apply to UF, who I believe went 4-4 after Grier was suspended, with one of those wins coming in OT to a 3-9 FAU, and another by 2 points to a 4-8 Vandy?

Every single team that beat us was better than us. There were two, maybe three teams we beat that were probably also better than us.

Both FSU and UF suffered from a lack of a solid QB. Both programs were in rebuilding years, but FSU played their weak hand a better.

You misspelled weaker schedule.

 

[PacoGator19]

Ole Miss, UT and UGA all probably had more talent on their roster than UF this year.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Those were the three. Certainly true for UT and Ole Miss. And probably UGA.

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

Fair enough.

Yet Meyer won NCs with several different starting QBs. So did Bowden. As has Saban.

And all of those coaches had years where even when the are not NC champions, they create teams that are among the top tree or four teams in the nation.

It remains to be seen if Fisher can do that. So far, he is 0-4.



Every single team that beat us was better than us. There were two, maybe three teams we beat that were probably also better than us.



You misspelled weaker schedule.

The only coaches in the game today who I believe can consistently win national championships, without elite QBs, are Saban and Meyer. I'm only saying that because they have both done so, repeatedly.

I don't place Jimbo on that level. At least, not based on what I have seen. Jimbo has proven that he can win the national championship when he has a QB. There are probably 10-20 other coaches, on the FBS level, who can do the same.

 

[MJWilliamson]

The only coaches in the game today who I believe can consistently win national championships, without elite QBs, are Saban and Meyer. I'm only saying that because they have both done so, repeatedly.

I don't place Jimbo on that level. At least, not based on what I have seen. Jimbo has proven that he can win the national championship when he has a QB. There are probably 10-20 other coaches, on the FBS level, who can do the same.

Well, do you think Jimbo can have FSU in the top five consistently without an elite QB?

I do not.

 

[alaskanseminole]

Well, do you think Jimbo can have FSU in the top five consistently without an elite QB?

I do not.

Neither do I. His dadgum scheme is too frack'n complicated. I really hope Francios or Henry can be that QB. Maguire, MIGHT be able to pull it off as a 5th year senior, but he'll need the O-line to block like the 80's 49ers.

 

[danoleman]

Neither do I. His dadgum scheme is too frack'n complicated. I really hope Francios or Henry can be that QB. Maguire, MIGHT be able to pull it off as a 5th year senior, but he'll need the O-line to block like the 80's 49ers.

Maguire threw 4 pics against Houston!! Next man up

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

Well, do you think Jimbo can have FSU in the top five consistently without an elite QB?

I do not.

Bama's decision not to hire Bowden, back in the 1980s, was the best thing that ever happened to FSU Athletics.

As I mentioned, I don't put Jimbo on the same tier as the GOATs. But is that a reasonable expection? I think Jimbo is one step removed from that level.

 

[EvilWayz]

Are you a 90 year old woman?

Do you not live in the South? That a Southerner's polite way of saying "Well aren't you a retard."

 

[Big Nasty II]

Neither do I. His dadgum scheme is too frack'n complicated. I really hope Francios or Henry can be that QB. Maguire, MIGHT be able to pull it off as a 5th year senior, but he'll need the O-line to block like the 80's 49ers.

What is allegedly sooooooo complicated that all the Semi's talk about. If his scheme was sooooooo complicated, don't you think an NFL franchise would have scooped him up by now? As a wise man once said, it's just "pitching and catching."

 

[alaskanseminole]

What is allegedly sooooooo complicated that all the Semi's talk about. If his scheme was sooooooo complicated, don't you think an NFL franchise would have scooped him up by now? As a wise man once said, it's just "pitching and catching."

It's not "Semi's talk", it's a known fact and its talked about often amongst pundits (College and NFL).

It is what it is.

 

[Nolec]

Well, do you think Jimbo can have FSU in the top five consistently without an elite QB?

I do not.

FSU certainly would have finished pretty close to top 5 this year if JF had an elite QB. We had a marginally adequate QB this year and he got injured in the 1st quarter of the bowl game.

 

[seminole97]

What is allegedly sooooooo complicated

broad answer:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/spor...os-fsu-offense-complex-pro-20150511-post.html

If you're interested in more specifics:

http://www.tomahawknation.com/2012/11/2/3586954/florida-state-jimbo-football-passing-concept

 

[MJWilliamson]

Bama's decision not to hire Bowden, back in the 1980s, was the best thing that ever happened to FSU Athletics.

As I mentioned, I don't put Jimbo on the same tier as the GOATs. But is that a reasonable expection? I think Jimbo is one step removed from that level.

I agree with everything you wrote up till the last sentence. But that is only a matter of interpretation.

I think Fisher is an excellent recruiter. He seems to mange his program very well. I think he is an average to poor game day coach. I think he will almost always lose one or two games every single year that has his fan base scratching their heads. Whether that is only "one step removed from (GOAT)", or in fact something worse, probably lies in the eye of the beholder.

 

[alaskanseminole]

I agree with everything you wrote up till the last sentence. But that is only a matter of interpretation.

I think Fisher is an excellent recruiter. He seems to mange his program very well. I think he is an average to poor game day coach. I think he will almost always lose one or two games every single year that has his fan base scratching their heads. Whether that is only "one step removed from (GOAT)", or in fact something worse, probably lies in the eye of the beholder.

Yup. If fans are happy with 9-3/10-2 seasons, a bowl game and potential (likely) ACC Championship appearance, Jimbo may be that guy. I think we'll know for sure by the close of the 2017 season.

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

I think the assumption you are making is that with Jameis, any old coach would have won the National Championship.

I don't think this is true. There are probably a dozen, or so, coaches that could have done the same thing, but the majority would not. Just because Jimbo is not one of the GOATs doesn't mean that he is easily replaceable.

In my opinion, this season could have easily been far worse. Coker left due to Jameis and Golson didn't work out. Maguire is a backup QB who was forced to carry the team. We essentially had no QB game, and still made it to a major bowl.

 

[GatorGray]

We essentially had no QB game,

No, Florida had no QB game. fsu had much more.

 

[SKSnole]

Do you not live in the South? That a Southerner's polite way of saying "Well aren't you a retard."

Bless your little heart.

 

[MJWilliamson]

I think the assumption you are making is that with Jameis, any old coach would have won the National Championship.

I don't think this is true. There are probably a dozen, or so, coaches that could have done the same thing, but the majority would not. Just because Jimbo is not one of the GOATs doesn't mean that he is easily replaceable.

Maybe, maybe not. The college football coaching graveyard is littered with coaches that have won NCs but not done much more that that.

We essentially had no QB game, and still made it to a major bowl.

This was the sixth year of the Fisher team. Longer than that if you consider how long he has been in charge of recruiting for the offense.

No excuse for not have a credible QB

 

[SKSnole]

Maybe, maybe not. The college football coaching graveyard is littered with coaches that have won NCs but not done much more that that.



This was the sixth year of the Fisher team. Longer than that if you consider how long he has been in charge of recruiting for the offense.

No excuse for not have a credible QB

LOL.

 

[alaskanseminole]

No excuse for not have a credible QB

Actually there are several "excuses". 1. Jameis jumped a year early (for obvious reasons). 2. His back-up is playing at Bama. 3. Another viable candidate punched a woman. Those three things were significant factors.

UF is in a similar situation with all its transfers then Grier's screw up. You have to go with what's left, not necessarily what was recruited to be your starter.

 

[SKSnole]

Actually there are several "excuses". 1. Jameis jumped a year early (for obvious reasons). 2. His back-up is playing at Bama. 3. Another viable candidate punched a woman. Those three things were significant factors.

This post is far too reasonable for MJ.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Actually there are several "excuses". 1. Jameis jumped a year early (for obvious reasons).

He did not jump a year early. Talent like that almost NEVER stays more than three years.

In fact, you can blame Fisher for not playing the guy in his freshman man, in effect wasting one of his years he could have played.

2. His back-up is playing at Bama. 3. Another viable candidate punched a woman.

Those three things were significant factors.

They are pretty much on the coach too, in terms of having adequate back-ups.

UF is in a similar situation with all its transfers then Grier's screw up. You have to go with what's left, not necessarily what was recruited to be your starter.

No one is arguing that point. We are just arguing that the paucity of competent FSU QBs is on Jimbo