I am assuming by "spectacular play" you mean he'll hit a deep ball.
IMO - It's because he doesn't have to think (i.e. go through his progressions) on the deep ball. He knows when he snaps the ball where he's going with it.
Game Day Thread against...who? Oh that is right. It is against the Owls
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IMO - It's because he doesn't have to think (i.e. go through his progressions) on the deep ball. He knows when he snaps the ball where he's going with it.
The problem with this is that we as fans do not know if he was option 1, 2 or 3, and by the time the QB looks for 2 & 3 the rush has gotten there.
You guys are missing me completely. I've already said he does in fact miss receivers, I count em. It's not nearly to the extreme people think he does however. Also, to Gray's point, and from my personal experience, a TE is almost never a primary option in a route tree. They're billed as the 'safety valve' for a reason. Every single offense I've ever known reads the route tree from deep to short. So if for example you have a deep post, a square in back side, and the TE running across the field on the drag, your progression would be read post, square in, drag. Now how often do people think he's had time to go to #2 much less #3 in progression?
Ironically, the area where he's regressed the most, people never mention. Accuracy. That's much more of an issue that I've seen that him missing receivers. Take one of our earlier possessions down in the redzone. On 3rd down, he quickly scanned through from the outside curl, to the underneath slant, and then McGee's post over that. He read the play perfectly fine and moved to the correct read almost instantly, he then airmailed McGee who had an easy TD. It was one of our first possessions. Stuff like that happens all the time. That's much more of an issue than hypothetical receivers people keep claiming he's missing. And that's why I'm done with him because stuff like that is elementary and he just doesn't do it anymore. Probably due to happy feet, but it is what it is. Stand there and take the site. He refuses to set his feet and throw, just watch it, he's always chopping. And I know this has probably been drilled a thousand times.
Ironically, the area where he's regressed the most, people never mention. Accuracy. That's much more of an issue that I've seen that him missing receivers. Take one of our earlier possessions down in the redzone. On 3rd down, he quickly scanned through from the outside curl, to the underneath slant, and then McGee's post over that. He read the play perfectly fine and moved to the correct read almost instantly, he then airmailed McGee who had an easy TD. It was one of our first possessions. Stuff like that happens all the time. That's much more of an issue than hypothetical receivers people keep claiming he's missing. And that's why I'm done with him because stuff like that is elementary and he just doesn't do it anymore. Probably due to happy feet, but it is what it is. Stand there and take the site. He refuses to set his feet and throw, just watch it, he's always chopping. And I know this has probably been drilled a thousand times.
Thomas Goldkamp @ThomasGoldkamp 59m59 minutes ago
Jim McElwain pretty clear #Gators need Treon Harris to start hitting open receivers more - http://florida.247sports.com/Bolt/Harris-has-to-start-hitting-open-receivers-for-UF-41363945…
Jim McElwain pretty clear #Gators need Treon Harris to start hitting open receivers more - http://florida.247sports.com/Bolt/Harris-has-to-start-hitting-open-receivers-for-UF-41363945…
In other Breaking News: Water is wetThomas Goldkamp @ThomasGoldkamp 59m59 minutes ago
Jim McElwain pretty clear #Gators need Treon Harris to start hitting open receivers more - http://florida.247sports.com/Bolt/Harris-has-to-start-hitting-open-receivers-for-UF-41363945…
Every passing play just needs to just wr screens/pick for Callaway. He seems to be the only receiver that treon can make a accurate pass to. I just watched the SC game again (well first two drives because that's all I could take) and I counted 4 passes that he missed the open receiver, and 3 of those the open receiver was in the same area as the guy he threw the ball to. The line had nothing to do with those throws he had a pocket.
Getting worse yes, happening at an alarming rate, no. Think about it. In order for that to be true you would have to believe one of two things, or both. One, that his first read is consistently open, which I'd say is doubtful considering almost all route trees are read deep to short and the deepest routes take the longest to clear. OR he's getting to his second and third read with regularity and simply missing those throws.
If what y'all say about his lack of ability to read coverage is true, then #2 can't be true, he wouldn't get through the reads fast enough. If he is missing reads at an alarming rate, that means he's apparently going through his reads at rapid pace and just missing open guys, which would then mean the criticisms about him being unable to read coverages is false. Can't have it both ways. And we also know #2 isn't true because we can't protect long enough for it to happen. So we're left with #1. His first read is open regularly and he's missing it an alarming rate. And that just defies common football sense because of what's already been mentioned. He IS missing reads, at least a handful of times a game. And that's just not a lot taken into context. His biggest problem is that he couldn't hit me from 5 yards away atm. The McGee example I gave in a previous post illustrates that point perfectly. Made the correct read, rather quickly, and completely airmailed the dude.
Sorry buddy. I love your comment and intelligence. But what you say here does not pass the eye test.
In the last few games, he trows to his first read less than 10 to 20 % of the time. He almost never throws to he second read. He almost always scrambles.
If we win, we win in spite of him. Not because of him.
That doesn't add up though. You don't have to take my word for it, ask anyone you may know who coaches even if it's HS. 95% of route trees are read deep to short. So the first read is typically down the field. Our line cannot even protect for that long so that's completely out the window. So then what you're saying is he's consistently missing his #2 and #3 reads, which is nearly impossible because our line doesn't provide enough time to wait for #1 to clear and then hit #2 or #3 after that. So there's no way he's even getting to a second read and or missing it with regularity if what you say is true.
The routes that he is missing is the drags, slants, and ins we run. He doesn't let it go as soon as there's a window between the backer and corner in that 3-5 yard area like he should. But that's 4-6 times a game. They probably seem more obvious for that reason.
Paralysis by analysis.
Whether he is seeing what is going on downfield, understanding what he is seeing, not seeing .... does it really matter? He doesn't have IT between the ears. That's not likely to change.
Whether he is seeing what is going on downfield, understanding what he is seeing, not seeing .... does it really matter? He doesn't have IT between the ears. That's not likely to change.
You realize intelligence has zero do with being able to read defenses? Why do you assume he doesn't have it between the ears? I just love statements like that when no one even knows what the reads are on any given play. And as I've already pointed out, he actually does find the correct guy to go to more often than not, he's just inaccurate as hell delivering the ball or delivers it late. None of which have anything to do with intelligence or having 'IT' between the ears. It's a rhythm and timing issue. Not synching his drops with receivers steps, breaks, etc. You guys don't understand what you're claiming to see on the field.
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LMAO. Please tell me you don't believe that? Have you seen the academics of some of the best QB's to have played the game? Some of them can barely speak coherent english. It's football, not a chem exam. Good lord. That belief of yours helps to explains a lot of your misinformed opinions though.
Allow them their fantasies.
Most Gator fans are still firmly attached to the idea that Tebow was the team leader. The reality was a lot of players resented him for the special treatment he got from Meyer. When it finally came out that Louis Murphy had to comfort him while he sobbed after the Ole Miss loss in 2008 a lot of people expressed (and still do) disbelief that it actually happened. I've been telling people for years that the Pouncey twins, Harvin and Spikes were the leaders on the team. People just don't want to believe it.
Reading defenses, as you know, is about the ability to remain calm under pressure while processing the information around you. That trait has very little to do with intelligence. In the military it's referred to as situational awareness.
Situational Awareness is the ability to identify, process, and comprehend the critical elements of information about what is happening to the team with regards to the mission. More simply, it's knowing what is going on around you.
I
YOU are saying recognizing defenses, coverages, what's happening down field and then making the right decisions based on those recognitions and developments requires NO level of intelligence. That's absurd.
Why are you conflating intelligence and academics/book smarts???? They are NOT THE SAME! Good Gawd! WTF is the matter with you?
YOU are saying recognizing defenses, coverages, what's happening down field and then making the right decisions based on those recognitions and developments requires NO level of intelligence. That's absurd.
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You clearly do not know about the treatment that Harvin received from Meyer and the resulting resentment from many others.
No shit they aren't the same. Academic success is often used as a measure of intelligence though. I used academics/booksmarts to keep the discussion simple, obviously book smarts alone don't tell us how intelligent someone is. It's a simple measure, nothing more.
And see Space's post, you're way overrating it in this discussion. And I doubt very seriously you know how intelligent any of our players are or aren't, much less what a read is on any given play. So making a judgement about their intelligence based on what you think you're seeing on the field is even more absurd than whatever 'absurd' argument you think I'm making.
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Actually, I do.
I've had the parents of players tell me about how Harvin was treated and how Tebow was treated.
Tebow was resented more than Harvin depending on who you asked.
I thought the point was that Treon doesn't have "it between the ears."
As in, football intelligence. Not academics.
Driskel had great academics but didn't have "it between the ears."
This is a surprisingly heated debate over something that has to just be a misunderstanding, right?
Or is one side arguing that Treon DOES have what it takes mentally to be a good QB?
As in, football intelligence. Not academics.
Driskel had great academics but didn't have "it between the ears."
This is a surprisingly heated debate over something that has to just be a misunderstanding, right?
Or is one side arguing that Treon DOES have what it takes mentally to be a good QB?
Even if that's what he's saying, he's still wrong. Treon's issues aren't mental. They're primarily physical and then lack of feel. It's not as if he's routinely not understanding what he's seeing. More times than not he picks the right guy to throw to. He's just either inaccurate getting it there or late as hell getting in there. And that's just timing and feel issues, nothing to do with what's between the ears. It's the hardest thing to teach QB's for that reason.
Somebody like Roethlisberger has the exact same issue. He always lacks timing, holds the ball forever, takes bad sacks, and throws late. But he has a cannon arm and can squeeze it in after the fact even when he's late. Treon can't and it shows when he tries to. Grier had some of the same issues early, he just had the arm to get away with it until he got better at it. Does he not have it between the ears either? Of course not, no one would make that argument. It's just an innate feel. Some naturally have it, some learn it and get a lil better, and some never do it beyond an average level. It doesn't have anything to do with intelligence or having football IQ though. That's just all 'feel'. Best way I know to describe it.
Somebody like Roethlisberger has the exact same issue. He always lacks timing, holds the ball forever, takes bad sacks, and throws late. But he has a cannon arm and can squeeze it in after the fact even when he's late. Treon can't and it shows when he tries to. Grier had some of the same issues early, he just had the arm to get away with it until he got better at it. Does he not have it between the ears either? Of course not, no one would make that argument. It's just an innate feel. Some naturally have it, some learn it and get a lil better, and some never do it beyond an average level. It doesn't have anything to do with intelligence or having football IQ though. That's just all 'feel'. Best way I know to describe it.
That situational awareness of which you speak? Treon possesses very little,
I said Treon "doesn't possess IT between the ears."
Unless this "situational awareness" they speak of is developed in one's ass, leg or somewhere else other than between the ears, it appears as though ooz agrees with me. Whether he realizes that or not, that's something else altogether.
Go Gators and hope everyone's Thanksgiving was blessed.
Unless this "situational awareness" they speak of is developed in one's ass, leg or somewhere else other than between the ears, it appears as though ooz agrees with me. Whether he realizes that or not, that's something else altogether.
Go Gators and hope everyone's Thanksgiving was blessed.
