When you can't complete a forward pass, they're going to tee off on your RBs.
Game Day Thread against...who? Oh that is right. It is against the Owls
- Thread starter MJWilliamson
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We couldn't run when Grier played either though. And we can all agree his passing should have opened up the run game right? It still didn't. The oline just ain't good, regardless of who the QB is.
Agreed on Halter and Dillard...Ivey and Johnson usually play way better than they did today...I don't know what the hell to think with this team but I expect to lose next week based on how we've played the last few games.
Harris is a special kind of bad right now. He's not an accurate passer at all and now he's a TO machine. He would have been benched by now if we had anything else to turn to.
Be interesting to see how this all works out next year. Grier has put us in a special kind of mess.
No Del Rio is ineligible and can't play. I expect Del Rio or Feleipe Franks to be our starting QB Game 1 of next year.
I don't think that's accurate at all. Grier had 4 SEC starts. In each of his last 3 (against 3 teams that are actually worth a damn. UT, Ole Miss, and Mizzou), Taylor rushed for over 100 yds (97 vs Ole Miss). Granted, the OL is and was a weakness but Grier threw the ball well enough, made the defense honest enough, to get us ENOUGH of a running game to move the ball.
Treon is so deficient with his head and arm that it IS effecting our running game. There is also a noticeable complete lack of enthusiasm and any semblance of leadership from Treon. No getting with his WRs, RBs, OL on the sideline. No sense of urgency or "follow me! I've got us!" in the huddle. I really wonder what is going on his head most of the time.
Again, our OL is and was bad. Embarrassingly bad. However, if we're being honest...Treon's problem is not the OL. The OL is merely a convenient excuse for those who continue to blindly defend his play. He's constantly shell-shocked, deer in the headlights. This "progress" people are talking about is an illusion. I don't know what you are talking about. He's plainly regressing and to call it anything else, is disingenuous.
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This is flat out wrong. While Treon is terrible, the bad OL is FAR from an 'excuse'. Our OL was letting a 3 man ruah in the backfield without resistance. When we play Bama it wouldn't matter if there was Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady back there, we will be able to do nothing
Watch the game again. We have guys open all over the field. Harris just either doesn't see them, can't physically see them, can't make the reads, scared to throw the ball or bails too quickly.
The coaching staff has tried different things with Harris but none of them are working.
The coaching staff has tried different things with Harris but none of them are working.
I said it is an excuse for those who continue to defend him, pointing almost exclusively to the OL in every post, like it's their duty to defend Treon.
One more thing I have noticed as well. I thought Harris was supposed to be some kind of gamer and leader? He acts emotionless out there and just uninterested IMO. He obviously has zero confidence on top of all his other limitations but this is starting to remind me of our last few years when the rest of the team had no confidence in the QB.
I also think the "dead fish" comment from Coach Mac was indirectly at Harris
I also think the "dead fish" comment from Coach Mac was indirectly at Harris
Treon is the Titanic and there are a handful of people between this forum and the Alley that make up the band.
Blindly defend him? Read through this thread, I'm done with him. Said so multiple times in the thread. Don't recall anyone saying he hasn't regressed either. It was debatable before this game, it isn't anymore. I don't understand why it has to be an either or thing. Either the line is bad or Treon is bad and causing the line to suffer.
And what I said was accurate. I brought up Grier simply to show that no we could not run even with a passing game from him either. So to place all the blame on Treon for us not being able to run is disingenuous. For some reason, you guys have it in your head that it's a Grier vs. Treon thing and I seriously can't understand it. Speaks more to your bias than anything else. Y'all can't watch what's happening without the need to place all the blame on one QB while conveniently forgetting the bad plays of another. Treon is not playing well, but you'd only excuse this oline play if you had an agenda. Nor is it an illusion that he was improving...until this disaster of a game. Mac himself pointed out all the areas he had improved particularly in the pocket. Some of you are just hell bent on seeing nothing but bad in his play and ignoring what good there is though, all the while romanticizing what the offense looked like under Grier.
These are our ypc in the games Grier started
ECU: 2.55 (excluding Treon's rushes with had a 10.7 ypc.)
UK: 3.2
UT: 3.9
Ole Miss: 2.5
Mizzou: 2.9
That's an average of 3.01 per rush with three games UNDER 3 ypc, including the last two games Grier started. That ypc average would have us ranked about 106th in the country. So no, we couldn't run under Grier either. Looking at total yards rushing only is flawed. We could run for 3 ypc during a game, which is very poor, but if we ran it 50 times in the game we'd end up with 150 yards. Doesn't mean we ran well. I said it during the game, but anyone (including me) who has high hopes for Grier should be glad he isn't playing now. This is the type of oline that ruins QB's. You see it in Treon. He was nothing special to begin with, just pretty good, but now he's hearing footsteps that aren't there, sacking himself on some occasions, and turning into another version of Driskel. He's shellshocked behind this line. They're flat out awful, there's no excuse for it, independent of how bad Treon is now playing.
And the criticism is more aimed at their lack of ability to run block, not pass block. IIRC our average down and distance against FAU was 6 yards because we got stuffed in the run game repeatedly, that's pathetic. That's what, about 2 ypc? The only difference between now and when Grier played is he was occasionally good enough to throw us out of it. Harris is not. But it would have caught up to us eventually just like it has. People conveniently forget how we struggled to move the ball in those games because of the oline too. 14 points against a bad UK defense. 14 offensive points against Mizzou. 14 points through three quarters against a really bad UT defense, etc. So unless we went full air raid, and got our QB killed in the process, this day was coming. Maybe not this bad, but it was coming. And I criticized the oline then too. But nooooow when I do it it's because I'm blindly defending the QB. I guess it was fine when I criticized the oline before though because that meant I was defending Grier in some people's eyes. OK.
Ah, good point. I know a guy that covers the Gators. I will ask him his opinion of Del Rio
He says the only guy that is pumping Del Rio is Shane Matthews. And that was before the season started.
I would think we have suddenly become more popular with top QBs after the suspension was upheld. Add to that the Miles chatter and I assume Franks will flip sooner rather than later.
I get that some people are high on Franks, but considering Miles track record with QBs, color me skeptical.
I think any true freshman will have an extremely hard time winning a starting job at Florida. He is not even the starter in HS?
No that's the Trask kid who doesn't start on his own HS team. Baffles me how he not only gotan offer, but an early commitable offer at that. I know, I know, trust the coaches. But Nuss has a track record with QB's and no I don't trust his evaluations. It makes no sense.
I read here where here did not.. Several people stated that they did not want him for that very reason. Shame on me for not checking
He is not throwing on the receivers breaks. There are tons of non FCS QBs with better skills, which is shocking considering he came from a big league high school and was considered a baller.
“Offensive line-wise, what I am concerned about is how they affect each other, not in a positive way but in a negative way,” McElwain said. “Body language. Energy. You watch it, they mope around. When something bad happens they mope around.
On Harris' confidence:
“That's something we'll visit about,” McElwain said. “I don't know (where his confidence is). I thought he looked spooked at times. I don't blame him. There were times we fell down (up front) and No. 2 (FAU tackle Brandin Bryant) was in the backfield before he dropped. That's tough."
Mounting evidence of Treon's fragile and delicate psyche through the quotes of Coach Mac over the last several weeks.
May also explain the way Mac addressed the play of each QB in the offseason.
The sad part about it is that Treon has guys open if he just trusts the route. Throw the ball where the guy is supposed to be after his break.
But he does not.
'
But he does not.
'
Also, can we please stop pretending receivers are running wide open all over the field? It's not the case. Treon IS missing receivers, no question about it. But it's a handful of times a game, not nearly to the extreme it gets brought up here. Mac early in the season and all through camp was notoriously harsh on both QB's, yet he never harps on that stuff. Look at his comments about the o-line 'falling down' barely 2 seconds after the snap. That occurs more times than Treon missing receivers. If we had someone else to go to, I'd be all for benching him, if for nothing else than to allow people to see some of the same problems continue.
Well said. While Treon is no Tom Brady, no one can really judge him with the total lack of protection he has had either. Wanting him replaced is just the typical fan in love with the QB on the bench.
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I cannot count the number to times I saw a receiver be open coming out of a break. But being open is often a short window. The QB has to anticipate the break and trust that the guys will run the route right. He has to throw the ball in anticipation of that. Treon often waits until well after the break to throw the ball, if he throws it at all.
Wrong. He has the same problem this year as he had last year. Do you not remember all the discussions we had last about him not trusting his routes last year? We blamed a lot of that on Muschamp and the OC.
Yet at the beginning of this year Treon did not seem to have as much of a problem with it. That was vindication to us that the problem was Muschamp, not Treon. That the problem was player development, not the player. However, to now say he has regressed is being kind to the word regressed.
Plus he has gotten measurably worse on his scrambles. On some of his scrambles, he needed to throw the ball away and did not, essentially sacking himself. During the game, you kept saying "No big deal, no big deal." Bullshit. It IS a big deal. It is a matter of judgement. Plus, this offense cannot afford to give up even a few yards.
On some other scrambles, when he did not sack himself, (or get sacked for a sack six) ) he had guys running scramble routs across the filed that he could have hit. Most times he did not even throw the ball until the receiver was well out of bounds. Even while staring him down.
Perhaps. The OL IS bad. No question he feels legitimately spooked. But that still does not excuse him not trusting his routes and not throwing to open receivers, when he looks right at them
All of the above being said, the TD pass to Callaway was like perfect. It's like he'll totally suck for several series and then all of the sudden pull some spectacular play out of his ass. He obviously has some talent...it would be awesome if he could just tap into it consistently.
McGee, for one, would almost certainly disagree. He has been missed over the middle of the field more times that I can count since Treon took over.
