DeSantis Education Solution To Not Hiring Enough Teachers Is to Hire Unqualified Candidates

BamaFan1137

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you do realize that the new deal was radical and socialist when enacted. the math is simple. the wealthier get far less relative to whats put in than the people lower down the income ladder. its like everything else, it attempts to levelize, whcih is necessary in a functional democracy, it simply should be done better and more inclusively than its being done.

Yes, I know which administration pushed it through. It's absolutely a socialist program.

If it had been left alone, which was never going to happen, it's a socialist program that I could live with.
 

Buje

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Here’s my opinion as an educator:
1. You can’t just offer more money. Imo the problem is at the local level. We need more money coming in locally. But with Florida being a destination retirement community, that won’t happen because politicians want to get re-elected. Majority folks are elderly they won’t vote for it so there ya go. Shortage of funds.
2. pendulum has been swinging the wrong way for about 5 years now in terms of discipline and student/parent behavior. Teachers are totally on the defensive every time something happens. Hell, i had to sit in a room to be a witness to a student search (someone heard he had a gun)..,he didn’t and whene we notified Mom she was mad at the school for following protocol (oh yea her other son got arrested and expelled last year for having a gun on campus). Teachers or educators do one thing wrong and it’s all over the internet. Somehow we are expected to live by higher standards than the rest of the world (not having a drink in public).
3. teachers only work 196 days a year, get 10 days of vacation/sick time, and I’d guess 15 of those days are very early release days or non student days. It’s been very common teachers pickup extra side jobs due to the shortened schedule. I’d love to get more money but I also am not ashamed to do side jobs or anything extra. I’m sure I’ll get a “i do lesson plans and this and that in my off time.” Well someone told me years ago that this job will take up as much time as you let it. I can count on my hands and feet how many times I’ve done significant work at home. We get retirement and have a pretty damn kickass schedule. Find people to work for who who treat you right, bust your hump to gain trust and it’ll be a much better experience.
4. Inflation has impacted everyone and educators weren’t ready for it like many others.
5. This veterans solution isn’t going to work. I commend Ron D for thinking of that but i don’t see it being viable. Desantis does want a privatized education but you’ll still need the same teachers teaching the Classes so what difference is that gonna do lol.

imo it’s a dying profession due to many factors and one person…hell one state can’t fix the problem. We need to stop making mountains out of mole hills if someone’s feelings get hurt, stop being so abstract with things and get back to a normal civilization and stop promoting some of these ideologies that both parties think are a bit looney.
 

RayGravesGhost

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And all that means that adding an income tax in Florida is a good idea?

Again, you're unworthy of my time. Begone.


No you idiot...that was a short list of donald's liberal fiscal & monetary policies

I never said anything about adding an income tax...I'm the person that told you that property taxes fund education...remember?

Again, its hard to tell if you're dumb or just incapable of reading
 

BamaFan1137

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No you idiot...that was a short list of donald's liberal fiscal & monetary policies

I never said anything about adding an income tax...I'm the person that told you that property taxes fund education...remember?

Again, its hard to tell if you're dumb or just incapable of reading

In response to a post about state income tax in Florida. Preach to me about people not being to read again.

This is why you aren't worth my time. Begone troll.
 

gatordad3

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In response to a post about state income tax in Florida. Preach to me about people not being to read again.

This is why you aren't worth my time. Begone troll.
tenor.gif
 
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BillCutting4585

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Here’s my opinion as an educator:
1. You can’t just offer more money. Imo the problem is at the local level. We need more money coming in locally. But with Florida being a destination retirement community, that won’t happen because politicians want to get re-elected. Majority folks are elderly they won’t vote for it so there ya go. Shortage of funds.
2. pendulum has been swinging the wrong way for about 5 years now in terms of discipline and student/parent behavior. Teachers are totally on the defensive every time something happens. Hell, i had to sit in a room to be a witness to a student search (someone heard he had a gun)..,he didn’t and whene we notified Mom she was mad at the school for following protocol (oh yea her other son got arrested and expelled last year for having a gun on campus). Teachers or educators do one thing wrong and it’s all over the internet. Somehow we are expected to live by higher standards than the rest of the world (not having a drink in public).
3. teachers only work 196 days a year, get 10 days of vacation/sick time, and I’d guess 15 of those days are very early release days or non student days. It’s been very common teachers pickup extra side jobs due to the shortened schedule. I’d love to get more money but I also am not ashamed to do side jobs or anything extra. I’m sure I’ll get a “i do lesson plans and this and that in my off time.” Well someone told me years ago that this job will take up as much time as you let it. I can count on my hands and feet how many times I’ve done significant work at home. We get retirement and have a pretty damn kickass schedule. Find people to work for who who treat you right, bust your hump to gain trust and it’ll be a much better experience.
4. Inflation has impacted everyone and educators weren’t ready for it like many others.
5. This veterans solution isn’t going to work. I commend Ron D for thinking of that but i don’t see it being viable. Desantis does want a privatized education but you’ll still need the same teachers teaching the Classes so what difference is that gonna do lol.

imo it’s a dying profession due to many factors and one person…hell one state can’t fix the problem. We need to stop making mountains out of mole hills if someone’s feelings get hurt, stop being so abstract with things and get back to a normal civilization and stop promoting some of these ideologies that both parties think are a bit looney.
Question for you since you’re a teacher and I’m 100% serious with no flaming or name calling.

How would you fix it? Is the only way to continue to throw money at the problem at the expense of the tax payer? Is it the teacher’s union? School choice?

You’re reply on this would be greatly appreciated
 
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Buje

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Sure.
i feel it’s going to be difficult to fix due to politicians being involved. In my district lol he pay level for someone with 20 years experience vs 2 years is pretty negligible. Irony there is the veteran teachers are asked to mentor the younger teachers who make same.

Idea 1: Make the steps greater and incentivize veteran teachers to stay. That’s whose now all of a sudden leaving (younger teachers always left) in addition to 1-3 year teachers.

idea 2: offer additional perks with comp time and sick time. Currently teachers absorb so much extra duty and get comp time that you can’t take if kids are in school. So it’s rather a joke lol. My wife works for fLvS and can get any gym membership she wants for a sick day. So she gets orange theory for one sick day. Things like this would go a long way to keeping teachers happy.

idea 3: the evaluation system is a joke how schools get grades. Example: does anyone know what graduation rate is or how it’s factored? You’d think it’s how many enrolled kids graduate for that year right? Far from it. If a kid shows up in 9th grade for one day, comes in and withdraws to another school but never shows up..:that kid counts against your graduation rate. So what admin and support staff do is chase kids down, pick up drop off, feed them. Just so they’ll show up and graduate. Pretty ridiculous imo but that’s how principals at hS are evaluated and if a school doesn’t make gains, eventually you’ll get fired. Reality is we can’t “fire students” and you Could get Tony Robbins, urban meter and inky Johnson and the kid will still dropout or not show up. Another similar result from needing kids here is behavior/discipline has gone to the wayside to keep kids in school. Bottom line if you are a turd you shouldn’t get 100 attempts to act right.

Idea 5: yes, create a tax that goes directly to schools and stop catering to the elderly who retire from OoS and come retire here. In lake county and Sumter county i think it’s like 55 year old and above don’t pay any impact fees. Those fees have helped fund some capital projects at schools.

i could probably go on for days with other suggestions. I’ll close with this: I’m happy where I’m at, i try and focus on good things not all the Negatives but i can tell everyone that climate at school is not good currently amongst everyone, from admin to custodians. I have made wise decisions with my purchases where I’m not strapped like many other teachers are for money. I’ve also not given two craps about doing side jobs for extra money lol. But I’m the minority in being content.

i hope this made sense and didn’t offend anyone.
 

BillCutting4585

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Sure.
i feel it’s going to be difficult to fix due to politicians being involved. In my district lol he pay level for someone with 20 years experience vs 2 years is pretty negligible. Irony there is the veteran teachers are asked to mentor the younger teachers who make same.

Idea 1: Make the steps greater and incentivize veteran teachers to stay. That’s whose now all of a sudden leaving (younger teachers always left) in addition to 1-3 year teachers.

idea 2: offer additional perks with comp time and sick time. Currently teachers absorb so much extra duty and get comp time that you can’t take if kids are in school. So it’s rather a joke lol. My wife works for fLvS and can get any gym membership she wants for a sick day. So she gets orange theory for one sick day. Things like this would go a long way to keeping teachers happy.

idea 3: the evaluation system is a joke how schools get grades. Example: does anyone know what graduation rate is or how it’s factored? You’d think it’s how many enrolled kids graduate for that year right? Far from it. If a kid shows up in 9th grade for one day, comes in and withdraws to another school but never shows up..:that kid counts against your graduation rate. So what admin and support staff do is chase kids down, pick up drop off, feed them. Just so they’ll show up and graduate. Pretty ridiculous imo but that’s how principals at hS are evaluated and if a school doesn’t make gains, eventually you’ll get fired. Reality is we can’t “fire students” and you Could get Tony Robbins, urban meter and inky Johnson and the kid will still dropout or not show up. Another similar result from needing kids here is behavior/discipline has gone to the wayside to keep kids in school. Bottom line if you are a turd you shouldn’t get 100 attempts to act right.

Idea 5: yes, create a tax that goes directly to schools and stop catering to the elderly who retire from OoS and come retire here. In lake county and Sumter county i think it’s like 55 year old and above don’t pay any impact fees. Those fees have helped fund some capital projects at schools.

i could probably go on for days with other suggestions. I’ll close with this: I’m happy where I’m at, i try and focus on good things not all the Negatives but i can tell everyone that climate at school is not good currently amongst everyone, from admin to custodians. I have made wise decisions with my purchases where I’m not strapped like many other teachers are for money. I’ve also not given two craps about doing side jobs for extra money lol. But I’m the minority in being content.

i hope this made sense and didn’t offend anyone.
Makes perfect sense and thank you for answering my post.

I’ll admit, I’m not a teacher and will not pretend how it works. I will say there are some giant issues that need to be fixed in order to attempt to salvage education in this country.

I do not believe raising taxes or adding taxes in order to pay for increase, equipment, etc. is the way moving forward. For decades, we’ve thrown money at the issue to fix it and it’s gotten worse. In business or in life, when this happens, you pull the plug and not double down.

I do think it’s time to look at school choice as an option and start the process of removing the federal and local government influence from education. These schools really need to embrace being ran like a business and not do much as getting a budget from tax dollars.

I stand right there with you, teachers need to be paid more. You will never get what you deserve when politics and government are involved. I do believe the teacher’s union does a lot more harm to your cause than good. At the end of the day, the kids are the ones that are punished the most.

As I’m sure you’ve experienced, charter schools and private schools are getting extremely popular and more parents are moving away from public education.
 
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Buje

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@BillCutting4585 I also am not high up enough to understand all of it. But what i was meaning in terms of taxes was in my area impact fees are null on retirees over 55. It may be a small drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things. Maybe everyone moving in generates revenue for local govt. i can’t speak to that.

We have school choice now. It may be different than what you reference above, but it’s definitely gaining steam and to be totally honest I’m not a huge fan of how it’s empowering parents and kids now. They are not transferring due to a school offering a specific program or something to really excel their child. They are transferring because their kid isn’t the starting rb for the football team. Kinda ruining HS sports.

i agree about charter schools but let me ask you this..:If every school in Florida/country goes charter, how will that solve the problem? I love how charters are governed but you’ll still have the same inexperienced and short pool of candidates regardless.

As I said i just go To work, try and be a good employee to Teachers and educator to students each and every day. Serve as a beacon of light for many unfortunate folks each and every day.
 

BillCutting4585

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@BillCutting4585 I also am not high up enough to understand all of it. But what i was meaning in terms of taxes was in my area impact fees are null on retirees over 55. It may be a small drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things. Maybe everyone moving in generates revenue for local govt. i can’t speak to that.

We have school choice now. It may be different than what you reference above, but it’s definitely gaining steam and to be totally honest I’m not a huge fan of how it’s empowering parents and kids now. They are not transferring due to a school offering a specific program or something to really excel their child. They are transferring because their kid isn’t the starting rb for the football team. Kinda ruining HS sports.

i agree about charter schools but let me ask you this..:If every school in Florida/country goes charter, how will that solve the problem? I love how charters are governed but you’ll still have the same inexperienced and short pool of candidates regardless.

As I said i just go To work, try and be a good employee to Teachers and educator to students each and every day. Serve as a beacon of light for many unfortunate folks each and every day.
I mis understood you, my apologies

Is the power going to the kids and the parents such a bad thing? Shouldn’t it be up to the parents to put their kids in the best learning environment possible? Do parents not get a say anymore? In public schools, this isn’t the case and the school districts are asking teachers such as yourself to pull a miracle year in and year out with less pay, outdated text books, outdated computers, etc. Hats off to you, you guys make things happen but you’re at the disadvantage while the teacher’s union and government officials not only get to dictate how much money they want to spend but also who and where it goes. Inject government into anything and I’ll show you corruption.

I’d personally love to see each school governed by itself, zero government influence. They set their tuition, kid capacity, teacher capacity, etc. Imagine a day where your teaching skills get critiqued and based on how well you perform, your kid’s grades, attendance, etc. You actually get paid what you deserve. Not some run of the mill raise if your lucky, not determined on tenure and not pre negotiated by a union that has way too much control. Complete free market capitalism.

Wouldn’t you think that the teachers that left teaching would at least consider coming back to teaching if salaries were higher? School environment was better? Maybe even hiring security to prevent another school shooting? It could be done without raising taxes or adding anything to the tax code.
 

RayGravesGhost

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Wouldn’t you think that the teachers that left teaching would at least consider coming back to teaching if salaries were higher? School environment was better? Maybe even hiring security to prevent another school shooting? It could be done without raising taxes or adding anything to the tax code.

Parkland had an armed security officer

So did Uvalde

So did Oxford High, Michigan
 

Buje

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I mis understood you, my apologies

Is the power going to the kids and the parents such a bad thing? Shouldn’t it be up to the parents to put their kids in the best learning environment possible? Do parents not get a say anymore? In public schools, this isn’t the case and the school districts are asking teachers such as yourself to pull a miracle year in and year out with less pay, outdated text books, outdated computers, etc. Hats off to you, you guys make things happen but you’re at the disadvantage while the teacher’s union and government officials not only get to dictate how much money they want to spend but also who and where it goes. Inject government into anything and I’ll show you corruption.

I’d personally love to see each school governed by itself, zero government influence. They set their tuition, kid capacity, teacher capacity, etc. Imagine a day where your teaching skills get critiqued and based on how well you perform, your kid’s grades, attendance, etc. You actually get paid what you deserve. Not some run of the mill raise if your lucky, not determined on tenure and not pre negotiated by a union that has way too much control. Complete free market capitalism.

Wouldn’t you think that the teachers that left teaching would at least consider coming back to teaching if salaries were higher? School environment was better? Maybe even hiring security to prevent another school shooting? It could be done without raising taxes or adding anything to the tax code.
I’ll Copy and paste some of your dialogue:
-Is the power going to the kids and the parents such a bad thing?
*No it isn’t a bad thing, except when a kid is transferring to 3 diff schools in one calendar year. It poses some issues on the behind the scenes side where schools can actually lose funding if kids aren’t on rosters in fall and spring. What you are suggesting and what is actually happening is not aligning.
**id love to see what you are describing; Orange County principals actually do have a great amount of autonomy to use funds however (but not teacher salaries). I’d say even most private schools don’t have the same structure you speak of. Many usually piggyback salaries off the public district they reside in..:there are a handful of private schools that pay by performance but few and far between I’d estimate based off my interactions with coaches and teachers of various private schools.

Every school in Florida i believe has one uniformed LEO at their school, and now many schools have added Guardians which are non uniformed personnel who are there for safety as well. However, one deputy doesn’t move the needle (for me at least) to determine whether i think schools are safe or not. It’s really not about having deputies on campus imo for me to feel safe. Every deputy I’ve worked with, I’ve felt safe. What’s changed is it seems like these kids, young adults, don’t value life and understand these things occurring have a finality with their actions.

If salaries were higher, conditions were relaxed in terms of teacher's evaluations and test scores, and schools We’re safer then yes i could see the profession getting more lifelong educators. But those are very expensive items which there isn't enough money to go around. I have no Clue where money would come from, without having some sort of tax or impact fee.
 

Capt Ron 1

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Florida ranks 48th out of 50 for education funding...


https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2022/08/19/get-real-about-floridas-teacher-shortage-editorial/
Get real about Florida’s teacher shortage | Editorial
Money and support to fill vacancies, not political gimmicks.

On Tuesday, Gov. Ron DeSantis took a crisis involving teachers and missed the point. There’s nothing wrong, of course, with offering incentives for first responders like retired police officers to work in the classroom. But the way to fill teacher vacancies is to pay what the profession demands. Let’s stop with the half-measures and start putting students first.

DeSantis announced during a news conference that he wants state lawmakers to create an easier path for retired law enforcement officers and other first responders to enter the teaching field. The move would expand a program enacted earlier this year that enables military veterans without a bachelor’s degree to obtain a temporary teaching certificate. Applicants would need to have completed at least 60 hours of college credits — the equivalent of an associate’s degree — hold a 3.0 grade average and pass a background check. Those accepted would spend the first two years in the classroom under the mentoring of an experienced teacher, who themselves would be eligible for bonuses for participating

First responders can often retire early, taking advantage of generous pensions, leaving them a decade or longer to stay in the workforce. Whether teaching attracts them remains to be seen. But why troll for teachers only among retired veterans, police and firefighters? What about civil servants, authors, artists, health care workers and others outside of security work who also didn’t pursue the teaching track? Don’t they have something to offer? If Florida is relying on an enlistment strategy, why not expand incentives to other occupations, industries and walks of life?

Of course, that raises the bigger question: Why is Florida responding to the teacher shortage by lowering professional standards in the classroom? Florida has about 9,000 vacant teaching positions in schools across the state, according to the most recent data from the Florida Department of Education. Florida’s shortage is part of a teacher deficit nationwide, as stresses from the pandemic, low pay and the micro-management of campuses has led many teachers to retire early or pursue other job opportunities. While Florida has worked to increase starting salaries, the state ranks 48th in the nation when it comes to average teacher salaries, according to an April report by the National Education Association. The teaching environment here is also worsening, as DeSantis and other Republicans have made grade schools and universities the latest battle grounds in partisan culture wars.


Students deserve quality teachers throughout the course of their scholastic lives. Teachers deserve to be appreciated and recognized for the tall job of preparing future generations. This all takes money, and plugging the ranks here and there with unqualified instructors who need to be babysat in their own classrooms won’t work. Florida needs to acknowledge why teachers are leaving and quit pretending that half-solutions will gloss over the problem.

Incentives? Fine. Maybe some will help. But lawmakers and the public cannot delude themselves about the value of a one-time bonus. Standing in front of middle-schoolers is tough. Not anybody can show up every day taking hits from students, parents and politicians. Not anybody can stay true while watching their profession get treated as expendable. Florida needs to pay its teachers for this critical job and provide more support as competition for this talent heightens nationwide.
It is ALWAYS about money spent...and NEVER about job performance with you commies, son. Let me educate you AGAIN.

Please open up to the outline of the countries report card on education. And PLEASE notice which states are failing! LOLOLOL dumba**

 

gatordad3

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No...we've identified who can't read 🤣

Property taxes in the state of Florida pays for the education system you dope
New hires, raises, bonuses...all of it

You sure you're originally from here?

Florida Education Finance Program (FEFP) - OPPAGA


Local revenue for school support is derived almost entirely from property taxes levied by Florida's 67 counties, each of which constitutes a school district. Each school board must levy the millage set for its required local effort from property taxes.

Maybe we can discuss Cologne Crappernick playing QB at...oh wait.....
 

gatordad3

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Parkland had an armed security officer

So did Uvalde

So did Oxford High, Michigan
At least two of the three are no longer employed, just like the Parkland security's boss. Oh wait a minute, the Uvalde chief is no longer employed.
 

RayGravesGhost

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At least two of the three are no longer employed, just like the Parkland security's boss. Oh wait a minute, the Uvalde chief is no longer employed.


And?

Your security solution is let a shooter kill and then fire the security officer?
 

Capt Ron 1

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Buje

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I can tell you each school in my district has a uniformed LEO. One deputy will not totally deter someone from doing what occurred at those two schools. Schools now are too vast and have too many entrances, crevices. There is a guardian program where admin can take an intense program and be able to carry on campus once signed off by local lEA. I will try and get that if and when i become an admin.
 
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Tarjf

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I'm a teacher (been for 20+ years)...pay great teachers more & hold them to higher standards. I'm fine with that. But also don't vilify the profession, embrace it. I disagree it's a dying profession unless we are a dying democracy. Because any great country needs to have a capable education system in which everyone has access to. I agree with @Buje I love my job, my kids, my hours....I would like to have a better pension system like police & firefighters do (In fact, that would make up for the salary b/c teachers get 48% of pay while police get 68% of pay when retired). And also, give more autonomy to teachers & local education systems. Let them dictate what is important to teach. I'm sure what is important in Pinellas isn't the same as what is important in Washington County, FL....but I digress
 

Buje

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you HAVE to love TOP GOV if you are a teacher!!

Listen brother, we are on the same side here, but that is misleading, as it didn’t factor in teachers who have been loyal to districts for a decade or longer. Yes new teachers will make 47,500, but some teachers only made 47,900 last year who have been at a school for 10+ years. It’s a revolving door of new teachers in and out but nobody seems to give a damn about the veteran teachers.
 

Capt Ron 1

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Listen brother, we are on the same side here, but that is misleading, as it didn’t factor in teachers who have been loyal to districts for a decade or longer. Yes new teachers will make 47,500, but some teachers only made 47,900 last year who have been at a school for 10+ years. It’s a revolving door of new teachers in and out but nobody seems to give a damn about the veteran teachers.
All respect, and just pasted a line from the article "and $100 million is to raise the salaries of Florida’s veteran teachers and other instructional personnel. " I know sometimes there is fluff in these...but is this real?
 

Capt Ron 1

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You know, in todays world, there are signing bonuses everywhere because of shortages...they need RETENTION bonuses for loyal and very successful employees too. I hope things change for the teachers. Teachers are our future
 

Buje

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State statutes limit how much of that funding can go toward new teacher retention/base salaries and veteran teachers from a district level. If you made over 47.5k last year, on a specific pay scale where you You got bare minimum in Raises. And, i can’t be 100% accurate but i thought the state had until 2024 to get in compliance with everyone making the bare minimum of salaries.

It’s the lack of raises or support of veteran teachers is why they are the ones leaving now. Parlay them leaving with the new 1-3 year teachers bolting and you get a scenario we are in currently.

TL:DR, I’m a Ronald supporter big time but let’s not forget he is a politician either lol. That article and the publicity he got was a bit slanted.
 
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Buje

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You know, in todays world, there are signing bonuses everywhere because of shortages...they need RETENTION bonuses for loyal and very successful employees too. I hope things change for the teachers. Teachers are our future
We get 1500 bonus in march 2022 and another 1000 in September 30…but it gets taxed hard lol.
 

armbar73

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I'm a teacher (been for 20+ years)...pay great teachers more & hold them to higher standards. I'm fine with that. But also don't vilify the profession, embrace it. I disagree it's a dying profession unless we are a dying democracy. Because any great country needs to have a capable education system in which everyone has access to. I agree with @Buje I love my job, my kids, my hours....I would like to have a better pension system like police & firefighters do (In fact, that would make up for the salary b/c teachers get 48% of pay while police get 68% of pay when retired). And also, give more autonomy to teachers & local education systems. Let them dictate what is important to teach. I'm sure what is important in Pinellas isn't the same as what is important in Washington County, FL....but I digress
This. Teaching everything based on the FCAT is stupid.
 

Capt Ron 1

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THANK GOD we have a governor that forced schools to open, despite the left nicknaming him "Deathsantis". And is removing teaching k-3 about gender! Florida won BIG time last night concerning woke school boards.
 
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RayGravesGhost

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BillytheC

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rgg - you support the most unethical admin in history and yet you are whining about who is hired to teach - makes me laugh