Exactly. The ACC invited FSU, when FSU and the SEC were in negotiations. Bobby wanted in the ACC. Done deal.
Why Florida is a legit 2017 CFP sleeper
- Thread starter alaskanseminole
- Start date
Nice alternative facts. Everyone knows FSU pushed for an invite many years.... but you claim Bobby didn't want it. You claim Bobby wanted in the ACC so it was a done deal. So FSU wanted the SEC ( by repeated requests) over Bowdens objections and then when the last minute call to join the SEC came ..... FSU then completely ignored their requests and went ACC. That's BS, if Bowden had the pull to get his way, then FSU would not have been asking to get in the SEC in the first place. We all, and FSU as well, know the last second invite was a sec face-saving ploy. And the chicken s whiny brat is proven by the sec later taking Mizz.?
And you're just as moronic as I've come to expect from a Clown-U nole-licker type...
Yep, us old folks don't know chit, plus we are totally clueless on how to use this newfangled net thingy.... However, I was already using advanced electronic equipment that was supported by multiple IBM 360's back in 1968. My kids were already building from parts, programming, and using computers by the mid 1990's when they were in HS. And as always, you idiot twits mostly don't know chit....
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In 2015 -- "I felt that it was too difficult to win through the SEC to win a national championship," Bowden told Finebaum. "I felt like our best route would be to go through the ACC and that did prove out to be correct. I don’t know if we could have made it through the SEC."
http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...by-bowden-fsu-wouldnt-win-title-in-sec-051315
In 2014 -- I am asked why we joined the ACC instead of the SEC back in 1992. We were invited to join both conferences the same year. Let me first say that we (FSU) had applied for membership in the SEC for the previous 20 to 25 years but were turned down every time. (years when the SEC was NOT expanding the conference) When we made our decision, the people making those decisions preferred the ACC for academic reasons.
(academic reasons at Deion Rule Clown-U??? LMFAO at that)
Sorry, but just being in the ACC doesn't do chit for Clown-U's academics.
What part did I play in it? I merely agreed to whatever those responsible decided. I had always been an SEC fan. I did feel, however, that between the SEC and the ACC, the best road to a national title was through the ACC. A national championship was my number one goal every year. The SEC is so tough, top to bottom, that they beat up on each other week after week. In the '90's we played for the national title five times and won two. This proves my point. Plus, FSU won another title last year and may win again this year!
So 'Eat-It' on several levels, meat-head.
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I said that. So it is a fact.
He said that. So you are either misinformed, or you are being disingenuous.
He said that. Twice. (see above)
Yeah, Bobster did say that. I don't remember the exact quote, but it was along the lines of the ACC being an easier path to championships.
Noles are funny, some things they just seem to have a tough time remembering, no matter how often you remind them.
And you're just as moronic as I've come to expect from a Clown-U nole-licker type...
Yep, us old folks don't know chit, plus we are totally clueless on how to use this newfangled net thingy.... However, I was already using advanced electronic equipment that was supported by multiple IBM 360's back in 1968. My kids were already building from parts, programming, and using computers by the mid 1990's when they were in HS. And as always, you idiot twits mostly don't know chit....
=============
In 2015 -- "I felt that it was too difficult to win through the SEC to win a national championship," Bowden told Finebaum. "I felt like our best route would be to go through the ACC and that did prove out to be correct. I don’t know if we could have made it through the SEC."
http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...by-bowden-fsu-wouldnt-win-title-in-sec-051315
In 2014 -- I am asked why we joined the ACC instead of the SEC back in 1992. We were invited to join both conferences the same year. Let me first say that we (FSU) had applied for membership in the SEC for the previous 20 to 25 years but were turned down every time. (years when the SEC was NOT expanding the conference) When we made our decision, the people making those decisions preferred the ACC for academic reasons.
(academic reasons at Deion Rule Clown-U??? LMFAO at that)
Sorry, but just being in the ACC doesn't do chit for Clown-U's academics.
What part did I play in it? I merely agreed to whatever those responsible decided. I had always been an SEC fan. I did feel, however, that between the SEC and the ACC, the best road to a national title was through the ACC. A national championship was my number one goal every year. The SEC is so tough, top to bottom, that they beat up on each other week after week. In the '90's we played for the national title five times and won two. This proves my point. Plus, FSU won another title last year and may win again this year!
So 'Eat-It' on several levels, meat-head.
ZZZZZZZ idiotic response as expected from a mental midget. So sorry to hear you had children actually because... well... you. Surprised the aliens didn't sterilize you. Glad you are so proud that you can computer , did the aliens teach you?
So what intelligent person joins a new conf. and states " this is not what we wanted"? FSU and BB had tries numerous times to get in the SEC. Even MJ agrees with that and he never agrees with anything. Then FSU is successfully courted by the ACC, and last min. SEC tries to jump in to save face. If the SEC had wanted FSU, it could have happened much earlier, then again still didn't want FSU and took Mizzouri instead.
I suppose Blobby wasn't an intelligent person then.
Then, Bowden told the story of how Florida State joined the ACC in the early 1990s instead of the SEC. Bowden’s reasoning was that Florida State would have had a tough time winning a national championship if it had to go through the SEC.
"I felt that it was too difficult to win through the SEC to win a national championship," Bowden told Finebaum. "I felt like our best route would be to go through the ACC and that did prove out to be correct. I don’t know if we could have made it through the SEC."
You can read the full story HERE:
http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...by-bowden-fsu-wouldnt-win-title-in-sec-051315
So, how's it taste?
(Nole feet. Ick.)
You're such a complete idiot that it's incredibly entertaining to me.
First off, if Clown-U wanted the 'false appearance' of being a part of ACC academic excellence (their bs claim for why they went ACC instead of SEC), then why hadn't they been begging the ACC for membership in all those previous 20-25 years, instead of the SEC? --- BOOM! ---
Second, so the SEC is supposed to take in any team because 'they want in' -- even in years when the SEC has no intention of expanding the conference for any of the 100+ D1 teams? (moronic)
The SEC's reason for expanding from 10 teams to 12 was to facilitate a conference championship game, (the reason for the 1992 expansion).
That expansion was Arkansas and South Carolina, not Mizzou and aTm, which was the 2nd expansion in 2012, 20 years later.
So, you think that the SEC should have opened it's doors 20-25 years sooner than 1992, for the tallycrappy criminoles, and just because it was in Clown-U's interest that the SEC do so? LMFAO at that!
When the SEC schools decided to (voted) to expand, they then offered both reFSUcks and the scUM thugs. Both had their bluffs called and both did their chicken-chit excuse ridden whine for why they went to the ACC instead. And the only reason that the ACC expanded and offered them at that time was because the SEC was getting ready to leave the ACC even further behind, which they have done anyway.
So please continue with your sniveling and whinning over your Clown-U and ACC's weak sister choices, it's very funny and entertaining to me....
Irrelevant facts which don't change a thing for either of those 2 1992 ACC chicken-chits.
Actually it isn't irrelevant, Mr. IBM 360. Oddly enough UF pushed for FSU back then. I don't even pin this on UF. In the 90's, however, FSU had options. Sure it is easier to win in the ACC most years but the year FSU joined the ACC Ga Tech had just won a national championship. The SEC had not produced a champion in about 10 years. Upon entry we went on an incredible run that more than likely cemented our football program for a very long time. Pretty well played I would say.
Irrelevant facts which don't change a thing for either of those 2 1992 ACC chicken-chits.
This Insta pos ignores facts and has been shown to make up his own, just like his idiot idol Sitchin. No wonder so many boards have banned his inane ( insane) ramblings.
Scott Adams is the guy that created Dilbert. He also authors a blog, where he talks about many things, among them how two people can look at the same screen and see completely different movies. He says we all do it. He give examples of people doing it.
nolec is just one such example
I think this is pretty true. Of course, the SEC went on to win 3 NCs in that decade, with three different teams. FSU won one more in that decade. And no other team in the ACC ever came close for a long time, until Clemson two years ago.
For all of that, you fail to mention that FSU left tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars on the table when they joined the ACC.
I suppose Blobby wasn't an intelligent person then.
Perhaps nuance is not your forte? This quote from Bowden is less any slam on the ACC as it is simply one justification for his university to join the ACC. It was widely known he favored the SEC but had the intelligence and class not to grouse when it did not go his way.
Then, Bowden told the story of how Florida State joined the ACC in the early 1990s instead of the SEC. Bowden’s reasoning was that Florida State would have had a tough time winning a national championship if it had to go through the SEC.
"I felt that it was too difficult to win through the SEC to win a national championship," Bowden told Finebaum. "I felt like our best route would be to go through the ACC and that did prove out to be correct. I don’t know if we could have made it through the SEC."
You can read the full story HERE:
http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...by-bowden-fsu-wouldnt-win-title-in-sec-051315
So, how's it taste? Since FSU from '91 thru'01 went 118-7-1 with a avg. top 17 SOS, with the undefeated season, and the 2 National Championships, I'd say it's pretty good.... maybe a bit salty for you.
(Nole feet. Ick.)
Sitchen's fans have bought many millions of his books in 20 languages, while nobody in the world GaS what you think or write in any language, but iyo he's the idiot.... LMAO at that...
As to the Facts: Since the 1992 SEC expansion, (25 years):
UF has played for the SEC-C about half (12/25) of the time and gone 7-5 in SEC-C games with their 5 losses all to traditional powerhouse UA. UF is now 4-5 with UA, with 2 wins over Ark and 1 win over AU. It took Bama's recent wins in 2015-16 to finally put them ahead of UF in the head to head in SEC-C games. That's how well UF has done over the last quarter century while playing in the toughest conference in the nation.
UF has also played for 4 NC's, and all 4 were against the #1 ranked teams, while going 3-1 in those NC games.
Lost to 1995 #1 Neb, their best team in their entire history. Then the Gators won against #1 FSU (+32) - #1 tOSU (+27) - #1 Okla (+10)
While the criminoles and the scUM thugs have played around in the All Chicken-chit Conference....
They both knew their weak-sister limitations, and so they went to the weaker competition, where they would have a chance to win, (just as Bowdown said).
'Well Played' (against cupcakes) is the appropriate phrase alright....
I'm happy about where the Gators are, and I'm just fine with where the weak little sisters are...
My question is this, 'why are they even here instead of being on Clemp's-son board, telling them how they are going to win the ACC-C and then NC in 2017?' (prolly cause Clemp's-son owns their sorry azzes)
It seems that they don't know that the Gators real 'level playing field' rivals are Tenn/UGA in the east, and LSU/Bama in the west.
UF has already dumped the scUM, and I'd be fine with replacing the talleycrappy criminoles with a quality OoS rotating opponent. They (scUM/reFSUcks) have always needed us, but UF (nor the SEC) has ever needed them for anything...
PS
Since the 1992 SEC expansion, what is the SEC's record in NC games?
How many teams have won a NC when an SEC team was the opponent?
How many different SEC teams have won the NC since 1992?
Plus - (my opinions)
13-1 UGA should have played for the NC in 2002
13-0 AU should have been named the NC in 2004.
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Sitchen's fans have bought many millions of his books in 20 languages, while nobody in the world GaS what you think or write in any language, but iyo he's the idiot.... LMAO at that...
As to the Facts: Since the 1992 SEC expansion, (25 years):
UF has played for the SEC-C about half (12/25) of the time and gone 7-5 in SEC-C games with their 5 losses all to traditional powerhouse UA. UF is now 4-5 with UA, with 2 wins over Ark and 1 win over AU. It took Bama's recent wins in 2015-16 to finally put them ahead of UF in the head to head in SEC-C games. That's how well UF has done over the last quarter century while playing in the toughest conference in the nation.
UF has also played for 4 NC's, and all 4 were against the #1 ranked teams, while going 3-1 in those NC games.
Lost to 1995 #1 Neb, their best team in their entire history. Then the Gators won against #1 FSU (+32) - #1 tOSU (+27) - #1 Okla (+10)
While the criminoles and the scUM thugs have played around in the All Chicken-chit Conference....
They both knew their weak-sister limitations, and so they went to the weaker competition, where they would have a chance to win, (just as Bowdown said).
'Well Played' (against cupcakes) is the appropriate phrase alright....
I'm happy about where the Gators are, and I'm just fine with where the weak little sisters are...
My question is this, 'why are they even here instead of being on Clemp's-son board, telling them how they are going to win the ACC-C and then NC in 2017?' (prolly cause Clemp's-son owns their sorry azzes)
It seems that they don't know that the Gators real 'level playing field' rivals are Tenn/UGA in the east, and LSU/Bama in the west.
UF has already dumped the scUM, and I'd be fine with replacing the talleycrappy criminoles with a quality OoS rotating opponent. They (scUM/reFSUcks) have always needed us, but UF (nor the SEC) has ever needed them for anything...
PS
Since the 1992 SEC expansion, what is the SEC's record in NC games?
How many teams have won a NC when and SEC team was the opponent?
How many different SEC teams have won the NC?
Plus - (my opinions)
13-1 UGA should have played for the NC in 2002
13-0 AU should have been named the NC in 2004.
Sitchen's fans have bought many millions of his books in 20 languages, while nobody in the world GaS what you think or write in any language, but iyo he's the idiot.... LMAO at that...
As to the Facts: Since the 1992 SEC expansion, (25 years):
UF has played for the SEC-C about half (12/25) of the time and gone 7-5 in SEC-C games with their 5 losses all to traditional powerhouse UA. UF is now 4-5 with UA, with 2 wins over Ark and 1 win over AU. It took Bama's recent wins in 2015-16 to finally put them ahead of UF in the head to head in SEC-C games. That's how well UF has done over the last quarter century while playing in the toughest conference in the nation.
UF has also played for 4 NC's, and all 4 were against the #1 ranked teams, while going 3-1 in those NC games.
Lost to 1995 #1 Neb, their best team in their entire history. Then the Gators won against #1 FSU (+32) - #1 tOSU (+27) - #1 Okla (+10)
While the criminoles and the scUM thugs have played around in the All Chicken-chit Conference....
They both knew their weak-sister limitations, and so they went to the weaker competition, where they would have a chance to win, (just as Bowdown said).
'Well Played' (against cupcakes) is the appropriate phrase alright....
I'm happy about where the Gators are, and I'm just fine with where the weak little sisters are...
My question is this, 'why are they even here instead of being on Clemp's-son board, telling them how they are going to win the ACC-C and then NC in 2017?' (prolly cause Clemp's-son owns their sorry azzes)
It seems that they don't know that the Gators real 'level playing field' rivals are Tenn/UGA in the east, and LSU/Bama in the west.
UF has already dumped the scUM, and I'd be fine with replacing the talleycrappy criminoles with a quality OoS rotating opponent. They (scUM/reFSUcks) have always needed us, but UF (nor the SEC) has ever needed them for anything...
PS
Since the 1992 SEC expansion, what is the SEC's record in NC games?
How many teams have won a NC when and SEC team was the opponent?
How many different SEC teams have won the NC?
Plus - (my opinions)
13-1 UGA should have played for the NC in 2002
13-0 AU should have been named the NC in 2004.
So dipwad, I see you could not get your meds to focus on the facts that I did not concern my post about UF.... the topic of your rant. As usual you address others' facts with your opinion... regardless if it's on topic...... moron.
Now I do understand that UF has done extremely well in the defined ( FSU joins ACC) time frame. Of course FSU was better and that is proven by the 15 -11-1 record.
And it only took your dumbass 2 tries to get your idiot response posted...
ACC - Almost Competitive Conference
SEC - Long proven toughest conference in the nation.
What was it again that Blobby Bowdown said about getting beat up all season?
And then the bright and shinney crims get to play the always beat up Gators, the week before UF has to play in the SEC-C (12 out of 25 years).
Let's switch. UF goes to an ACC schedule, while the chump crims play an SEC schedule, and then we can revisit our H-2-H, which UF still has over the crims in btw...
ACC - Almost Competitive Conference
SEC - Long proven toughest conference in the nation.
What was it again that Blobby Bowdown said about getting beat up all season?
And then the bright and shinney crims get to play the always beat up Gators, the week before UF has to play in the SEC-C (12 out of 25 years).
Let's switch. UF goes to an ACC schedule, while the chump crims play an SEC schedule, and then we can revisit our H-2-H, which UF still has over the crims in btw...
It worked out great for UF as well. Their fans will never admit it, but their conference success wouldn't have been anywhere near what it has been had FSU joined the SEC in 1992. UF has won 7 SEC titles since 1992 ('93, '94, '95, '96, '00, '06, '08). 4 of those 7 teams lost to FSU. UF won the East and made it to Atlanta on 5 other occasions ('92, '99, '09, '15, '16). 4 of those 5 teams lost to FSU. Their 12 teams that have made it to the SECCG have a 5-8-1 record vs. FSU. The FSU-UF game being an OOC affair has been advantageous to both programs over the last 25 years.
If Florida would have done poorer during that time, had FSU joined the SEC, then so would have FSU. In fact, FSU would have done considerably poorer had they had to play a SEC schedule.
FSU got cake walks to NC game,s and New Year games and high rankings on several occasions.
MJ, they did leave money on the table but it was unforeseen. FSU made a 500K investment to join the ACC. Within a decade that translated into almost $60 million. Not a bad ROI. The landscape changed and the SEC was/became a target rich college football conference. No doubt. My point in all of this is the SEC pulled its offer to FSU. It was a natural fit that didn't fit due to numbers and FSU shopping itself around when they finally could. Bobby Bowden did not have ultimate authority in what conference FSU joined back then. Not even close. Sure he was successful when the jump was made but his stripes were earned in the 90's.
The financial shortcomings from a football standpoint, imo, can be blamed on Miami, Va Tech and Clemson. In the decade that Bowden and Jeff Bowden sh*t the bed nobody else in the conference picked up the slack. Clemson seems to be legit now. FSU is legit. Other than that Miami still sucks like a $10 hooker. Va Tech is better than average but needs to be better. If all 4 can be clicking at the same time, like many hoped years ago, the conference is very formidable and valuable from a football standpoint.
The financial shortcomings from a football standpoint, imo, can be blamed on Miami, Va Tech and Clemson. In the decade that Bowden and Jeff Bowden sh*t the bed nobody else in the conference picked up the slack. Clemson seems to be legit now. FSU is legit. Other than that Miami still sucks like a $10 hooker. Va Tech is better than average but needs to be better. If all 4 can be clicking at the same time, like many hoped years ago, the conference is very formidable and valuable from a football standpoint.
insta, I hate to break this to you but FSU does not need UF. We could rotate just like you could. I'd be perfectly fine with that too. Texas, LSU (we own them), Nebraska, Ohio State, Michigan, etc., etc. Tallahassee racks up as most of those fans stay more than 1 night and will spend more money locally. Less cousin on cousin sex in the hotel rooms too when you come visit every other year. It's an absolute win for the University and the community.
And the rock solid proof of that (moronic) claim is that we are right here on the criminoles snore-rant site having the conversation,,, because criminole fans have never needed Gator fans for anything...
-- doh!==========
And now yet another dose of reality for your dumb-azz....
According to the NCAA, football attendance for 2015, the latest figures posted:
University of Florida -- 90,065 - average for 7 games
Clown-U in talleycrappy -- 73,219 - average for 7 games
scUM Thugs of Mi-Am-I - 47,561 - average for 6 games
(kensucky - 61, 295)
=========
SEC Teams in the game attendance Top 15: (6 of the Top 10 in the Nation)
3. aTm
4. LSU
5. UA
6. Tenn
8. UGA
9. UF - 90,065 / Game
12. AU
ACC Teams in the game attendance Top 15 = ZERO
Danny, we beat you in football with such regularity now that the smack talk about it is not nearly as fun as I thought it would be so we are left to talk shop with your alien expert.
Insta, your home game attendance numbers are impressive. It's a great atmosphere there at The Ben. Not sure how that translates to home games in Tallahassee......unless of course you are using the moral victory "we have more fans when we lose than you" angle? Congrats.
Insta, your home game attendance numbers are impressive. It's a great atmosphere there at The Ben. Not sure how that translates to home games in Tallahassee......unless of course you are using the moral victory "we have more fans when we lose than you" angle? Congrats.
And the rock solid proof of that (moronic) claim is that we are right here on the criminoles snore-rant site having the conversation,,, because criminole fans have never needed Gator fans for anything...
==========
And now yet another dose of reality for your dumb-azz....
According to the NCAA, football attendance for 2015, the latest figures posted:
University of Florida -- 90,065 - average for 7 games
Clown-U in talleycrappy -- 73,219 - average for 7 games
scUM Thugs of Mi-Am-I - 47,561 - average for 6 games
(kensucky - 61, 295)
=========
SEC Teams in the game attendance Top 15: (6 of the Top 10 in the Nation)
3. aTm
4. LSU
5. UA
6. Tenn
8. UGA
9. UF - 90,065 / Game
12. AU
ACC Teams in the game attendance Top 15 = ZERO
You have completely lost the argument when all you have is attendance there sport. Pathetic. Now change your Depends and get to bed and let the adults discuss. Maybe you'll dream of those aliens that you may or may not have seen.... talked to... etc. LOL
But you're still the typical Clown-U twit that you've always been.
What I had was right at the top of my post, but your dumbazz missed it I guess.
So here, let me just go ahead and B-slap you again with it.
"And the rock solid proof of that (moronic) claim is that we are right here on the criminoles snore-rant site having the conversation,,, because criminole fans have never needed Gator fans for anything...
-- doh!PS
Seeing the two of you kissing is ugly as heck, but keep it up, because it suits you glitter-boyz.
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Oh sweet Moses. This again.
Bobby & FSU (for 30 years) wanted to be in the SEC.
Time and time again the SEC said no.
Finally when the ACC came calling, the SEC said, "hold on...maybe we do want FSU."
FSU told the SEC no thanks, mostly due to financial reason's and Bobby's influence (which was later revealed that Bobby, in fact, thought the ACC would be an easier path to a MNC. It is what it is. "I felt that it was too difficult to win through the SEC to win a national championship," Bowden told Finebaum [circa 2015]. "I felt like our best route would be to go through the ACC and that did prove out to be correct. I don’t know if we could have made it through the SEC."
Here's a link to the entire process of FSU joining the ACC. LINK: ACC and FSU
Also, if you're curious, here's the history of FSU trying to woo the SEC from 1955-1971. LINK: SEC and FSU.
My personal thoughts:
FSU was supposed to increse the ACC's football prowess and the ACC was supposed to positively affect FSU's basketball program. Sadly, it took more than 20 years for that to happen.
Bobby & FSU (for 30 years) wanted to be in the SEC.
Time and time again the SEC said no.
Finally when the ACC came calling, the SEC said, "hold on...maybe we do want FSU."
FSU told the SEC no thanks, mostly due to financial reason's and Bobby's influence (which was later revealed that Bobby, in fact, thought the ACC would be an easier path to a MNC. It is what it is. "I felt that it was too difficult to win through the SEC to win a national championship," Bowden told Finebaum [circa 2015]. "I felt like our best route would be to go through the ACC and that did prove out to be correct. I don’t know if we could have made it through the SEC."
Here's a link to the entire process of FSU joining the ACC. LINK: ACC and FSU
Also, if you're curious, here's the history of FSU trying to woo the SEC from 1955-1971. LINK: SEC and FSU.
My personal thoughts:
FSU was supposed to increse the ACC's football prowess and the ACC was supposed to positively affect FSU's basketball program. Sadly, it took more than 20 years for that to happen.
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I guess it's not relevant that the SEC also ddn't invite any of the other 100+ schools to join either, during all those years that FSUcks was on it's knees begging to be allowed into the SEC...
But when the SEC finally did decide to expand to 12 teams to get a conference championship game and offered both the criminoles and the scUM thugs, then both instead went to the ACC. And they did it for other reasons than them just being to chicken-chit to play a full schedule in the toughest conference in the nation, like UF had been doing since 1932.
Sorry, not financial --- they claimed it was for ACADEMIC reasons. They thought that just being in the ACC for sports would somehow lend them some much needed academic cred. WRONG,,, and LMAO at that idiot criminole notion!
FSU learned it's academic lessons when the NCAA had to institute the 'Deion Rule' mandating that FSU football players had to at least attend the classes and not just be registered at the school. At least that was the claim at the time, 'that they had learned their academic lesson.'
That was another one of the many times that Blobby Bowdown has said that a criminole student/ATHLETE (Sanders) was an embarrassment to Clown-U while attending the school, not for some questionable actions taken years after leaving the school.
(shameous jameous)However, on March 6, 2009, FSU gets 4 More Years of NCAA Probation and will lose scholarships in football and may forfeit games because of a widespread academic cheating scandal involving all 10 sports.
The university immediately issued a release that it would challenge any attempt to strip the school of any victories or championships. (because at reFSUcks, they always know what's really important for Clown-U,,, and what isn't)
And mets-loser eats polish 7 course dinners at home,,,, a 6-pack with a ring of bologna...
