What does he do now?

[Capt Ron 1]

Good post Speed. I hope your right. But you can see the challenge he has from some of the posting on here already. Some Trump supporters simply don't want unity. They see the left as something that needs to be exterminated. Its the mindset that has gotten us in the fix we are in.

I cannot believe ANYONE is this dumb. We WANT unity, son.....but there will be ZERO unity while we are being attacked. We will KICK ALL OF YOUR a**es first...THEN unity. You attack...we attack back 100 times harder. RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA, fake FISA, lying intelligence officials Hunters laptop, multiple chicken chit law suits. This is how WE feel...however you WILL see a very different man tonite. He WILL tone it down, because he WANTS National unity.

 

[FresnoGator]

Think you are a victim of exactly what you are addressing. I have watched a fair amount of CNN the last few days and your assessment above does not come close to the overall tone I have witnessed. Its the right wing picking out the worst pieces of the lefts coverage and feeding it to you and you just accepting it as "their position". Its what both sides do to the detriment of all of us.

But my post wasn't meant to insinuate that any of the far left will change at all. The 25% or so on both sides are so dug in they deserve each other. Neither side will ever change.

But there is a whole spectrum of people out there. Trump's positive message could certainly have an impact on 3-5% of independents or moderate democrats who will listen. That could change the whole equation quite a lot. If he has, say 57% support instead of 52% everything becomes a lot easier and the messages going forward can change.

Its about taking this opportunity to try and save this country instead of letting it continue down the path to destruction like a lot of the knuckleheads on this board seem to want. Maybe in the end it can't be done........but this is the best opportunity Trump has ever had to sell that message and change the tone. I hope he does it.

I am sorry, my friend, but I am not a victim of anything Other than holding out, hope that people can change.

As I have mentioned in the past, I read both sides since neither of them tell the whole truth and draw my conclusions from that.

After the incident, I specifically went and looked at the headlines of ABC NBC CBS CNN and the New York Times I was curious to see how they were going to try to diminish Trump. I was not disappointed, and yet I was very disappointed. I gave you an aggregation of those headlines since I didn't have the time to go and find each one of them and quote it. I am sure the coverage has been tempered since that time, but I wanted to see what the headlines said. Because as you and I both know most of the sheep out there pay attention to the headlines and everything else. Is Just noise.

How many true independents do you think they're actually are?

You present a nice idea, but I am skeptical. Having seen this play out before ...

 

[GatorTrooper]

Trump has a rare and historic opportunity with the RNC perfectly timed for this week. He is the position that no former president or candidate has ever been in. Will he rise above the fray and deliver a unifying, magnanimous speech? Biden has said all the traditional things you would expect in this situation, but its what Trump has to say that will matter. He has a big lead with Biden taking on water every day.......the country NEEDS Trump to show he can put away the petty politics and sacrifice any payback rhetoric and be the bigger man here. He would score a lot of points with a lot of people if he can rise to this occasion. Don't blame the democrats......frame it as a random act by one sick individual....and ask his people to refrain from any kind of retribution. Winning the election should be all the payback they need.

This is uncharted territory......as much as I dislike Trump, I hope he pulls it off. The country needs him to lower the temperature............Trump is really the only person who can do it. If he can be that close to losing his life and come back with a very positive, forward looking hopeful message it could be a good day for America.

What he does now is simple. He wins. 🇺🇲🇺🇲

 

[jsfgators]

Good post Speed. I hope your right. But you can see the challenge he has from some of the posting on here already. Some Trump supporters simply don't want unity. They see the left as something that needs to be exterminated. Its the mindset that has gotten us in the fix we are in.

You misunderstand. I want unity. But I want it on our terms.

 

[Illegal-shift]

You misunderstand. I want unity. But I want it on our terms.

What does that mean?

 

[Capt Ron 1]

What does that mean?

It means NOT while your side is attacking us. We have other ways to deal with that.

 

[jsfgators]

What does that mean?

It’s multi pronged. Winning in politics is only one front in the battle. I want all people who want to be here legally to prosper and be happy. However, you will not be permitted to parade drag queens and other deviant behavior in public. We will no longer have queers in children content. If you want live this way, that’s fine, but you will do it in private . We won’t be normalizing it in the culture at large. We won’t have men in women sports/ locker rooms. We won’t be transing kids. The border, our way. There will be no debate on the limits of our 2nd amendment rights. You may discuss what a gun free society would look like in theory, but you will not move one inch toward implementing such a thing. If you root burn and loot, private citizens will stop you of need be, by any means. We will not tolerate it. I guess it looks like Germany post WW 2. There will be no “bipartisanship “ type stuff. Our way. I don’t advocate for hurting or imprisoned people who are lefties, they just need to understand that it isn’t going to be there way. They may peacefully disagree. They can live here and prosper. This will be done through elections and social activity like the bud lite boycott. This is why boot on the throat victory is necessary. It’s the only thing commie thugs understand. Oh yeah, we are gonna level the administrative state. Totally leveled.

 

[Capt Ron 1]

It’s multi pronged. Winning in politics is only one front in the battle. I want all people who want to be here legally to prosper and be happy. However, you will not be permitted to parade drag queens and other deviant behavior in public. We will no longer have queers in children content. If you want live this way, that’s fine, but you will do it in private . We won’t be normalizing it in the culture at large. We won’t have men in women sports/ locker rooms. We won’t be transing kids. The border, our way. There will be no debate on the limits of our 2nd amendment rights. You may discuss what a gun free society would look like in theory, but you will not move one inch toward implementing such a thing. If you root burn and loot, private citizens will stop you of need be, by any means. We will not tolerate it. I guess it looks like Germany post WW 2. There will be no “bipartisanship “ type stuff. Our way. I don’t advocate for hurting or imprisoned people who are lefties, they just need to understand that it isn’t going to be there way. They may peacefully disagree. They can live here and prosper. This will be done through elections and social activity like the bud lite boycott. This is why boot on the victory is necessary. It’s the only thing commie thugs understand. Oh yeah, we are gonna level the administrative state. Totally leveled.

SOB I LOVE this post! I feel the same! We will get along...but we will not be FORCED to.

 

[Coolgtr]

You misunderstand. I want unity. But I want it on our terms.

Agreed. You can't unify with communists any more than you can negotiate with terrorists. The crazy far left, which actually runs their party, and their ideology needs to be completely destroyed. It's straight out of the pits of hell.

 

[FresnoGator]

Smart people will ignore knuckleheads in the media Fres, I for one thinks Trump comes out tonite and hits a home run, who cares what the media says at this point the OP Is spot on, I work my butt off 24/7 and listen too a bunch a dummies run their mouths about Civil War and garbage, I think Trumps A self aware man, I for one think we all will see a New Man moving forward

From your keypad to the good Lord's ears ...

 

[Buje]

It’s multi pronged. Winning in politics is only one front in the battle. I want all people who want to be here legally to prosper and be happy. However, you will not be permitted to parade drag queens and other deviant behavior in public. We will no longer have queers in children content. If you want live this way, that’s fine, but you will do it in private . We won’t be normalizing it in the culture at large. We won’t have men in women sports/ locker rooms. We won’t be transing kids. The border, our way. There will be no debate on the limits of our 2nd amendment rights. You may discuss what a gun free society would look like in theory, but you will not move one inch toward implementing such a thing. If you root burn and loot, private citizens will stop you of need be, by any means. We will not tolerate it. I guess it looks like Germany post WW 2. There will be no “bipartisanship “ type stuff. Our way. I don’t advocate for hurting or imprisoned people who are lefties, they just need to understand that it isn’t going to be there way. They may peacefully disagree. They can live here and prosper. This will be done through elections and social activity like the bud lite boycott. This is why boot on the throat victory is necessary. It’s the only thing commie thugs understand. Oh yeah, we are gonna level the administrative state. Totally leveled.

Agree here! I’m a believer it isn’t my job, or anyone’s job to judge anyone. Some of the best people I’ve met have been in some fashion what you stated. But keep it out of views of young kids. Maybe this is what liberals want, but when these current young kids get to young adulthood, they are gonna be so messed up, there won’t be enough help they can receive. It’s happening already but not at a high enough clip rate to overload the mental health counselors and private sectors.

 

[Illegal-shift]

I am sorry, my friend, but I am not a victim of anything Other than holding out, hope that people can change.

As I have mentioned in the past, I read both sides since neither of them tell the whole truth and draw my conclusions from that.

After the incident, I specifically went and looked at the headlines of ABC NBC CBS CNN and the New York Times I was curious to see how they were going to try to diminish Trump. I was not disappointed, and yet I was very disappointed. I gave you an aggregation of those headlines since I didn't have the time to go and find each one of them and quote it. I am sure the coverage has been tempered since that time, but I wanted to see what the headlines said. Because as you and I both know most of the sheep out there pay attention to the headlines and everything else. Is Just noise.

How many true independents do you think they're actually are?

You present a nice idea, but I am skeptical. Having seen this play out before ...

Lets just say you and I see this differently. You may read both sides, which is good, but your perception of things isn't the same as mine. I am sure you can find a headline on Fox right now that blames the democrats (and certainly Newmax). I didn't see that mentioned.

 

[Illegal-shift]

It’s multi pronged. Winning in politics is only one front in the battle. I want all people who want to be here legally to prosper and be happy. However, you will not be permitted to parade drag queens and other deviant behavior in public. We will no longer have queers in children content. If you want live this way, that’s fine, but you will do it in private . We won’t be normalizing it in the culture at large. We won’t have men in women sports/ locker rooms. We won’t be transing kids. The border, our way. There will be no debate on the limits of our 2nd amendment rights. You may discuss what a gun free society would look like in theory, but you will not move one inch toward implementing such a thing. If you root burn and loot, private citizens will stop you of need be, by any means. We will not tolerate it. I guess it looks like Germany post WW 2. There will be no “bipartisanship “ type stuff. Our way. I don’t advocate for hurting or imprisoned people who are lefties, they just need to understand that it isn’t going to be there way. They may peacefully disagree. They can live here and prosper. This will be done through elections and social activity like the bud lite boycott. This is why boot on the throat victory is necessary. It’s the only thing commie thugs understand. Oh yeah, we are gonna level the administrative state. Totally leveled.

Go look at what is happening in Britain right now. We are a couple years behind them. Your attitude won't end up winning in the long run.....it never has and never will in a democracy/republic. You can't force your morality on others. The my way or the highway attitude only works it police states. I agree with several of your specific points, but I know your overall methodology is doomed to failure. The pendulum will swing back extremely hard this time and we will all suffer for it.

There are about 150 million people in this country that see the world very differently than you. We can't deport them and there is zero chance your going to change their thinking. Its a built in difference in how people see the world. The only hope is to compromise and learn to live together. Its the same thing in virtually every country in the world and why all the democratic states are pretty much father to the left than we are.

 

[Buje]

Go look at what is happening in Britain right now. We are a couple years behind them. Your attitude won't end up winning in the long run.....it never has and never will in a democracy/republic. You can't force your morality on others. The my way or the highway attitude only works it police states. I agree with several of your specific points, but I know your overall methodology is doomed to failure. The pendulum will swing back extremely hard this time and we will all suffer for it.

There are about 150 million people in this country that see the world very differently than you. We can't deport them and there is zero chance your going to change their thinking. Its a built in difference in how people see the world. The only hope is to compromise and learn to live together. Its the same thing in virtually every country in the world and why all the democratic states are pretty much father to the left than we are.

But isn’t the liberal “morality” or ideologies being forced upon others currently? Nobody can bring up anything that is conservative without being called a homophobe, sexist etc. I think conservatives have compromised with so much that has changed over the last two decades. But now, when we speak up, state our opinion, talk about Christianity, we are the ones who get ridiculed and chastised.

Most are completely fine with your regard to your comments on compromise and living together. But that’s not enough anymore for many of the movement going on around our country right now. If one don’t fall in line with what is being pushed, that person is the outcast.

 

[nothergator]

From your keypad to the good Lord's ears ...

Yo Fres, my old friend, did you hear that Elon Musk is going to throw in big bucks for the Repubs to be competitive with early voting and ballot harvesting. We got some big guys getting serious about winning this rematch. This a bit off topic but really encouraging news. However we also need to address illegal voting ans voting machines being hacked.

 

[Illegal-shift]

But isn’t the liberal “morality” or ideologies being forced upon others currently? Nobody can bring up anything that is conservative without being called a homophobe, sexist etc. I think conservatives have compromised with so much that has changed over the last two decades. But now, when we speak up, state our opinion, talk about Christianity, we are the ones who get ridiculed and chastised.

Most are completely fine with your regard to your comments on compromise and living together. But that’s not enough anymore for many of the movement going on around our country right now. If one don’t fall in line with what is being pushed, that person is the outcast.

I think there is a fair amount of truth in what you say here......and the left deserves a lot of blame, IMO, for where we are as a country. They have spent too much time pushing their causes and have not stopped to really listen to why the republican base disagrees with them. So my point is not to pump the virtues of the left. But a hard core, MAGA led "my way or the highway" response is not the answer, IMO. It won't work for very long. MAGA is nowhere near a majority in this country and pushing hard core values is going to backfire. Which it has already done in England. And remember the "contract with America". What happened there when the republicans overplayed their hand? Look at the blow back from Roe V Wade.

A more measured agenda......incremental gains instead of pushing too hard is the path to more sustained power. But, alas, I know it will never happen. MAGA is going to push their agenda down America's throat and its likely 4 years from now America is going to spit them back out. The only way to hold power that way is by force.......which is the primary reason the left wants to get rid of Trump so bad.

Anyway, my 2 cents, fwiw.

 

[FresnoGator]

Yo Fres, my old friend, did you hear that Elon Musk is going to throw in big bucks for the Repubs to be competitive with early voting and ballot harvesting. We got some big guys getting serious about winning this rematch. This a bit off topic but really encouraging news. However we also need to address illegal voting ans voting machines being hacked.

yes, it will be an uphill battle with the corruption already baked into the system ...

 

[treygator29]

Biden's speech lacked one very important phrase "and it starts with me". Biden acts like he is not at all responsible for turning up the temperature with his own rhetoric, such as existential threat and threat to democracy. Just the day before the shooting, Jill Biden called Trump "evil". Illegal shift makes it seem like Biden got shot, not Trump. Biden has an historic chance for healing by actions, not just words in a teleprompter, BECAUSE BIDEN IS THE PRESIDENT.

That’s news to Biden

 

[treygator29]

I dont think he needs any more than what hes got right now. If you arent on board now, we dont need you.

No way Trump loses this election. It’s just a matter of how badly the Dems and regime media are going to embarrass themselves now. It should be fun to watch. Grab your popcorn.

 

[treygator29]

The left is on the run and in disarray. Its funny how they always wanna lower the temperature, you know, cool of the rhetocric when they are on their heels. We should not afford them any quarter. No mercy. Boot on throat. Total victory. When the opposition is a bunch of commie thugs, thats the only way. When the left says we need to lower the temperature, it means they are on the run and they would like the Mitt Romney types to afford them the opportunity to huddle in the corner and lick their wounds and reload. We should do no such thing, we should attach bayonets

Bingo. They love to fire shots and when they get hit back and lose the upper hand, want to call a timeout.

 

[treygator29]

Lets just say you and I see this differently. You may read both sides, which is good, but your perception of things isn't the same as mine. I am sure you can find a headline on Fox right now that blames the democrats (and certainly Newmax). I didn't see that mentioned.

But shift, don’t you think the media has played a part in this because of all the hateful rhetoric they have spewed over the last 8 years? You can’t call someone a Nazi for 8 years then get surprised when someone tries to take them out. Media, politicians and Hollywood have all at times, called for or alluded to violence being an acceptable means to an end to stop Trump. You see this in the fact that many people are “sad” he missed. They not only think it’s ok, but they cheer it. You can’t set a climate like that and then avoid the consequences.

Every single person from Biden to Waters to Pelosi to Whoopi, Madonna, Kathy Griffin etc, need to be held accountable. They clearly know their words and opinions carry some weight with people. If they didn’t they never would have gone public with their opinions. If no one cared, what’s the point in sharing?

 

[Capt Ron 1]

Lets just say you and I see this differently. You may read both sides, which is good, but your perception of things isn't the same as mine. I am sure you can find a headline on Fox right now that blames the democrats (and certainly Newmax). I didn't see that mentioned.

Feel free to post this. You are too used to your immoral, unethical, but mostly UNAMERICAN side. We are NOTHING like you all. There is a VERY good reason the guy that wrote the most patriotic song in American history sings for us, and not your side.

 

[jsfgators]

Go look at what is happening in Britain right now. We are a couple years behind them. Your attitude won't end up winning in the long run.....it never has and never will in a democracy/republic. You can't force your morality on others. The my way or the highway attitude only works it police states. I agree with several of your specific points, but I know your overall methodology is doomed to failure. The pendulum will swing back extremely hard this time and we will all suffer for it.

There are about 150 million people in this country that see the world very differently than you. We can't deport them and there is zero chance your going to change their thinking. Its a built in difference in how people see the world. The only hope is to compromise and learn to live together. Its the same thing in virtually every country in the world and why all the democratic states are pretty much father to the left than we are.

I hear you talking about this compromise and earning incremental gains by being really nice and sweet to the commies. We tried these tactics. We spent years and years with this mentality nominating “ good and decent “ men like mitt Romney or John McCain . What kind of incremental gains did we make??? NONE. We lost. We were pushed further and further into this postmodernism or whatever you wanna call this ideology of the left. The way o see it, the harder we fight with the type of MAGA tactics you don’t like, the more elections we win. Not all of them, but enough of them to achieve what you say we need….. incremental change. Look at the Supreme Court. We overturned roe vs wade. Huge achievement for the right wing and traditional Americans. So what if we didn’t do as well on 2022 over backlash to it. We are moving the ball down the field, and so we had to spend political capital to do it. That’s what political capital is for, spending. Now we are gonna beat the breaks off the left in November. This is incremental change. I promise, in 10 years roe v wade will still be overturned and no one will be voting based on that one way or another. Now if the attitude is that traditional Americans must accept this slow decline into cultural decay and cultural Marxism, well then o would ask respectfully that you stand down and let real men of conviction…. Strong masculine men, who WILL NOT TOLERATE this crap for their children take the reigns. We don’t need a white towel caucus to negotiate our demise and surrender to the left. We damn sure don’t need to look to the British for wisdom.

 

[Capt Ron 1]

I hear you talking about this compromise and earning incremental gains by being really nice and sweet to the commies. We tried these tactics. We spent years and years with this mentality nominating “ good and decent “ men like mitt Romney or John McCain . What kind of incremental gains did we make??? NONE. We lost. We were pushed further and further into this postmodernism or whatever you wanna call this ideology of the left. The way o see it, the harder we fight with the type of MAGA tactics you don’t like, the more elections we win. Not all of them, but enough of them to achieve what you say we need….. incremental change. Look at the Supreme Court. We overturned roe vs wade. Huge achievement for the right wing and traditional Americans. So what if we didn’t do as well on 2022 over backlash to it. We are moving the ball down the field, and so we had to spend political capital to do it. That’s what political capital is for, spending. Now we are gonna beat the breaks off the left in November. This is incremental change. I promise, in 10 years roe v wade will still be overturned and no one will be voting based on that one way or another. Now if the attitude is that traditional Americans must accept this slow decline into cultural decay and cultural Marxism, well then o would ask respectfully that you stand down and let real men of conviction…. Strong masculine men, who WILL NOT TOLERATE this crap for their children take the reigns. We don’t need a white towel caucus to negotiate our demise and surrender to the left. We damn sure don’t need to look to the British for wisdom.

You are on fire...so agree...and so well written.

 

[Illegal-shift]

But shift, don’t you think the media has played a part in this because of all the hateful rhetoric they have spewed over the last 8 years? You can’t call someone a Nazi for 8 years then get surprised when someone tries to take them out. Media, politicians and Hollywood have all at times, called for or alluded to violence being an acceptable means to an end to stop Trump. You see this in the fact that many people are “sad” he missed. They not only think it’s ok, but they cheer it. You can’t set a climate like that and then avoid the consequences.

Every single person from Biden to Waters to Pelosi to Whoopi, Madonna, Kathy Griffin etc, need to be held accountable. They clearly know their words and opinions carry some weight with people. If they didn’t they never would have gone public with their opinions. If no one cared, what’s the point in sharing?

Trey,

You seem like a reasonable guy so I am left shaking my head at this take. How is it that you don't see this flowing from both sides?
Its just "mean tweets", isn't it? Its just words, why does it matter? Or do words carry some weight as you say in your post? If no one cares, what's the point in the tweets? You don't think that played a role in what happened?

Give me a couple hours and I can dig up probably 100 nasty rotten things, quotes, that Donald Trump has spit out against the left....and he has the biggest megaphone in the world. Why doesn't this matter? How about Hannity and Tucker and the most of the Fox news folks........don't their constant vilification of the left matter either?

The ability of folks on the right to blame the left and yet completely absolve Trump is stunning. And note here, I am not blaming Trump.....I am blaming both sides and the ever escalating hate filled rhetoric they both spew. And the social media where everyday people constantly spit hate filed bullshit is even worse......again, on both sides.

And you can go back a lot further than that. Rush Limbaugh preached to his audience for 30 years about how the left was evil, rotten people. I used to listen to him until I came to the realization that he had no interest in getting to the actual truth in anything.

Yes, the left is guilty as you said. We are in agreement on that. But how can you not see the equivalent on the others side?????

Its why I am praying Donald Trump takes a different approach when he speaks to the convention. He has a chance to change the direction a little bit and I hope he takes it. If not, we are likely doomed to see political violence escalate. Maybe we are anyway, but I am trying to remain a little optimistic.

 

[jsfgators]

Just in case anyone hasnt noticed, the ususal suspects have already gone back to calling him an authoritarian, danger to the country and so on. Looks like Biden is saying that he hasnt used any inappropriate rhetoric in the Holt interview. No thats Trump with the heated rhetoric. The MAGA facist need to lower the temperature. Like I said....no quarter, no mercy, total victory. Boot on throat. If you dont know who to vote for between Trump and Biden....then you aint American.

 

[treygator29]

Trey,

You seem like a reasonable guy so I am left shaking my head at this take. How is it that you don't see this flowing from both sides?
Its just "mean tweets", isn't it? Its just words, why does it matter? Or do words carry some weight as you say in your post? If no one cares, what's the point in the tweets? You don't think that played a role in what happened?

Give me a couple hours and I can dig up probably 100 nasty rotten things, quotes, that Donald Trump has spit out against the left....and he has the biggest megaphone in the world. Why doesn't this matter? How about Hannity and Tucker and the most of the Fox news folks........don't their constant vilification of the left matter either?

The ability of folks on the right to blame the left and yet completely absolve Trump is stunning. And note here, I am not blaming Trump.....I am blaming both sides and the ever escalating hate filled rhetoric they both spew. And the social media where everyday people constantly spit hate filed bullshit is even worse......again, on both sides.

And you can go back a lot further than that. Rush Limbaugh preached to his audience for 30 years about how the left was evil, rotten people. I used to listen to him until I came to the realization that he had no interest in getting to the actual truth in anything.

Yes, the left is guilty as you said. We are in agreement on that. But how can you not see the equivalent on the others side?????

It’s why I am praying Donald Trump takes a different approach when he speaks to the convention. He has a chance to change the direction a little bit and I hope he takes it. If not, we are likely doomed to see political violence escalate. Maybe we are anyway, but I am trying to remain a little optimistic.

Shift. Do you honestly think that in all these years, if the media had reported just the facts and covered Trump based on his actions and not pushed the narrative they have this would have happened? If Trump was just Trump, and there was no dangerous, oppressive rhetoric around him, this would have happened. Do you really think this kid tried to kill Trump based on his tweets and politics? And not because the things he’s been hearing since he was 12?

Trump is brash. He’s uncouth. He’s sometimes a bully. But I have a hard time buying that anyone would want to kill him, and by proxy kill themselves because that’s what happens when you try these things, based on his policies as president or some tweets he sent out.

Ps. Mad props for having the balls to hang in this forum when you’re a tiny minority. That’s why I like you shift. Most people would sit in the sidelines when they’re as outnumbered as you. That’s why I like you and @kalimgoodman.

 

[Capt Ron 1]

Trey,

You seem like a reasonable guy so I am left shaking my head at this take. How is it that you don't see this flowing from both sides?
Its just "mean tweets", isn't it? Its just words, why does it matter? Or do words carry some weight as you say in your post? If no one cares, what's the point in the tweets? You don't think that played a role in what happened?

Give me a couple hours and I can dig up probably 100 nasty rotten things, quotes, that Donald Trump has spit out against the left....and he has the biggest megaphone in the world. Why doesn't this matter? How about Hannity and Tucker and the most of the Fox news folks........don't their constant vilification of the left matter either?

The ability of folks on the right to blame the left and yet completely absolve Trump is stunning. And note here, I am not blaming Trump.....I am blaming both sides and the ever escalating hate filled rhetoric they both spew. And the social media where everyday people constantly spit hate filed bullshit is even worse......again, on both sides.

And you can go back a lot further than that. Rush Limbaugh preached to his audience for 30 years about how the left was evil, rotten people. I used to listen to him until I came to the realization that he had no interest in getting to the actual truth in anything.

Yes, the left is guilty as you said. We are in agreement on that. But how can you not see the equivalent on the others side?????

Its why I am praying Donald Trump takes a different approach when he speaks to the convention. He has a chance to change the direction a little bit and I hope he takes it. If not, we are likely doomed to see political violence escalate. Maybe we are anyway, but I am trying to remain a little optimistic.

Why are only Republicans getting shot then????? Trump, Scalise, Reagan , attempt on Kavanaugh. RECENTLY...only WE are getting shot at so that kind of could have saved you all that typing......and NO ONE is doing it more than the idiot in the white house..and the news media just parrots him. Your garbage above here is ALL BS.


Someone please paste this so he has to read it.

 

[Illegal-shift]

Shift. Do you honestly think that in all these years, if the media had reported just the facts and covered Trump based on his actions and not pushed the narrative they have this would have happened? If Trump was just Trump, and there was no dangerous, oppressive rhetoric around him, this would have happened. Do you really think this kid tried to kill Trump based on his tweets and politics? And not because the things he’s been hearing since he was 12?

Trump is brash. He’s uncouth. He’s sometimes a bully. But I have a hard time buying that anyone would want to kill him, and by proxy kill themselves because that’s what happens when you try these things, based on his policies as president or some tweets he sent out.

Ps. Mad props for having the balls to hang in this forum when you’re a tiny minority. That’s why I like you shift. Most people would sit in the sidelines when they’re as outnumbered as you. That’s why I like you and @kalimgoodman.

First, thanks......I am quite comfortable in my own skin and my status in life, nothing said on here is going to have any effect on me - other than to hopefully learn something about why people think the way they do. I also converse with a lot of people in other places who don't agree with this forum.....so there is that. I appreciate the civil discourse despite us disagreeing on some things.

But, again, you appear to be chastising the left for their Rhetoric and absolving Trump for his.......because he is brash its OK for him to say whatever he wants?

Lets review a sample of some other things and not take this one instant in a vacuum.

1) What rhetoric led a right wing conspiracy theorist to invade Nancy Pelosi's home and beat her husband with a hammer leaving him severely injured?

2) What rhetoric lead to this:
"On October 8, 2020, the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) announced the arrests of 13 men suspected of orchestrating a domestic terror plot to kidnap American politician Gretchen Whitmer, the Governor of Michigan, and otherwise using violence to overthrow the state government.[1][2][3][4] Some have labeled the attempt as an example of stochastic terrorism, where violent rhetoric by prominent figures inspired the plot."

3) What rhetoric lead to the January 6th attack on the Capital? We know what Mitch McConnel said shortly after the attack:

"There’s no question — none — that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. No question about it,” he said then, calling it “a disgraceful, disgraceful dereliction of duty.”

4) where did some of the Hitler stuff come from - did the Dems just make that up? Well...there is this from Trumps former chief of staff:

“He said, ‘Well, but Hitler did some good things.’ I said, ‘Well, what?’ And he said, ‘Well, [Hitler] rebuilt the economy.’ But what did he do with that rebuilt economy? He turned it against his own people and against the world. And I said, ‘Sir, you can never say anything good about the guy. Nothing,’” retired Marine Gen. John Kelly said. “It’s pretty hard to believe he missed the Holocaust, though, and pretty hard to understand how he missed the 400,000 American GIs that were killed in the European theater.”

Kelly said Trump, the Republican Party’s presumptive 2024 nominee, admired the loyalty of Nazi leaders and generals to Hitler, aspiring to receive the same loyalty from the U.S. military’s highest ranking officers.

“He would ask about the loyalty issues and about how, when I pointed out to him the German generals as a group were not loyal to him, and in fact tried to assassinate him a few times, and he didn’t know that,” Kelly said. “He truly believed, when he brought us generals in, that we would be loyal — that we would do anything he wanted us to do.”


Just clear as day to me that both sides bear some responsibility in all of these things. Its like two teenagers fighting and both are totally convinced that it is completely the other sides fault.

Both of them are wrong.

 

[jsfgators]

First, thanks......I am quite comfortable in my own skin and my status in life, nothing said on here is going to have any effect on me - other than to hopefully learn something about why people think the way they do. I also converse with a lot of people in other places who don't agree with this forum.....so there is that. I appreciate the civil discourse despite us disagreeing on some things.

But, again, you appear to be chastising the left for their Rhetoric and absolving Trump for his.......because he is brash its OK for him to say whatever he wants?

Lets review a sample of some other things and not take this one instant in a vacuum.

1) What rhetoric led a right wing conspiracy theorist to invade Nancy Pelosi's home and beat her husband with a hammer leaving him severely injured?

2) What rhetoric lead to this:
"On October 8, 2020, the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) announced the arrests of 13 men suspected of orchestrating a domestic terror plot to kidnap American politician Gretchen Whitmer, the Governor of Michigan, and otherwise using violence to overthrow the state government.[1][2][3][4] Some have labeled the attempt as an example of stochastic terrorism, where violent rhetoric by prominent figures inspired the plot."

3) What rhetoric lead to the January 6th attack on the Capital? We know what Mitch McConnel said shortly after the attack:

"There’s no question — none — that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. No question about it,” he said then, calling it “a disgraceful, disgraceful dereliction of duty.”

4) where did some of the Hitler stuff come from - did the Dems just make that up? Well...there is this from Trumps former chief of staff:

“He said, ‘Well, but Hitler did some good things.’ I said, ‘Well, what?’ And he said, ‘Well, [Hitler] rebuilt the economy.’ But what did he do with that rebuilt economy? He turned it against his own people and against the world. And I said, ‘Sir, you can never say anything good about the guy. Nothing,’” retired Marine Gen. John Kelly said. “It’s pretty hard to believe he missed the Holocaust, though, and pretty hard to understand how he missed the 400,000 American GIs that were killed in the European theater.”

Kelly said Trump, the Republican Party’s presumptive 2024 nominee, admired the loyalty of Nazi leaders and generals to Hitler, aspiring to receive the same loyalty from the U.S. military’s highest ranking officers.

“He would ask about the loyalty issues and about how, when I pointed out to him the German generals as a group were not loyal to him, and in fact tried to assassinate him a few times, and he didn’t know that,” Kelly said. “He truly believed, when he brought us generals in, that we would be loyal — that we would do anything he wanted us to do.”


Just clear as day to me that both sides bear some responsibility in all of these things. Its like two teenagers fighting and both are totally convinced that it is completely the other sides fault.

Both of them are wrong.

1) My understanding is that the Pelosi attacker was a garden variety SF homeless junkie. May be wrong.

2) The Whitmer case turned out to be a dozen FBI agents duping morons into a plot they would have never come up with on their own. The vast majority of the people involved were FBI agents, and it was their idea that was implemented. This case is one of a laundry list of items that has caused me to have a complete collapse in trust of federal police.

3) J6 - I think there were some bad MAGA people there that did very bad things. However ( see bullett #2 ) I believe that federal authorities infiltrated that crowd and encouraged and pushed that behavior. MAGA people should have been smart enough to resist this, but they werent. There were many people that were not violent, just regular folks there as well that have had their lives ruined.

4) I dont trust Kelly. However, even if true, its very inartful to say those things about Hitler....but I havent noticed anyone complain about the wide use of VW, or Siemens, or BMW.....all Nazi sympathizers. Very inartful to say anything positive about Nazi's, but we kind of pick and choose. That statement doesnt mean Trump is Hitler lover.

To be clear, I dont blame rhetoric. I am a free speech absolutist. I really believ in a "deep state apparatus" and I believe that the 20 year old was a patsy. I find it absurdly naive to believe he didnt have help and that the SS just forgot to secure the roof top

 

[Illegal-shift]

1) My understanding is that the Pelosi attacker was a garden variety SF homeless junkie. May be wrong.

2) The Whitmer case turned out to be a dozen FBI agents duping morons into a plot they would have never come up with on their own. The vast majority of the people involved were FBI agents, and it was their idea that was implemented. This case is one of a laundry list of items that has caused me to have a complete collapse in trust of federal police.

3) J6 - I think there were some bad MAGA people there that did very bad things. However ( see bullett #2 ) I believe that federal authorities infiltrated that crowd and encouraged and pushed that behavior. MAGA people should have been smart enough to resist this, but they werent. There were many people that were not violent, just regular folks there as well that have had their lives ruined.

4) I dont trust Kelly. However, even if true, its very inartful to say those things about Hitler....but I havent noticed anyone complain about the wide use of VW, or Siemens, or BMW.....all Nazi sympathizers. Very inartful to say anything positive about Nazi's, but we kind of pick and choose. That statement doesnt mean Trump is Hitler lover.

To be clear, I dont blame rhetoric. I am a free speech absolutist. I really believ in a "deep state apparatus" and I believe that the 20 year old was a patsy. I find it absurdly naive to believe he didnt have help and that the SS just forgot to secure the roof top

A little on the Pelosi attacker:

"DePape testified in his own defense and admitted to breaking into the couple's Pacific Heights home with plans to use Nancy and Paul Pelosi in a plot to lure Bay Area scholar and University of Michigan professor Gayle Rubin, a leading academic in feminist theory and queer studies.

While on the stand, DePape referred to multiple right-wing conspiracy theories and said he spent six hours a day looking at political commentary on YouTube leading up to the attack.

DePape had previously told investigators that he broke into the home with plans to break Speaker Pelosi's kneecaps if she didn't answer his questions truthfully."

With regard to your last statement.....my opinion at this point is the most likely outcome will be that this was a combination of human error and complacency. Its hard to do that kind of thing day after day with nothing happening and maintain the same level of diligence. That being said, I am all for a full investigation to find out. Its certainly possible that there is more to it, and if so lets get the answers. Ultimately what is important is that we get to the truth, wherever that leads.

 

[jsfgators]

A little on the Pelosi attacker:

"DePape testified in his own defense and admitted to breaking into the couple's Pacific Heights home with plans to use Nancy and Paul Pelosi in a plot to lure Bay Area scholar and University of Michigan professor Gayle Rubin, a leading academic in feminist theory and queer studies.

While on the stand, DePape referred to multiple right-wing conspiracy theories and said he spent six hours a day looking at political commentary on YouTube leading up to the attack.

DePape had previously told investigators that he broke into the home with plans to break Speaker Pelosi's kneecaps if she didn't answer his questions truthfully."

With regard to your last statement.....my opinion at this point is the most likely outcome will be that this was a combination of human error and complacency. It’s hard to do that kind of thing day after day with nothing happening and maintain the same level of diligence. That being said, I am all for a full investigation to find out. Its certainly possible that there is more to it, and if so lets get the answers. Ultimately what is important is that we get to the truth, wherever that leads.

yeah, I don’t know a ton about the pelosi deal, bad people come in all varieties. For me, the deep state stuff is a pile up of incidents that has led me to not believe any they say or do. Russian dossier used to spy, they go out of there way to say that the hunter laptop is fake, they charge trump with dozens of crimes months out from an election ( for crimes that supposedly happened years ago ) all of the sudden all at once, the Whitmer kidnapping stinks to high heaven, they go out of there way to arrest elderly people praying at an abortion clinic….. and then I’m supposed to believe they accidentally didn’t cover the most obvious spot in that entire scene. It’s to much to digest, I don’t have any faith in federal law enforcement

 

[Illegal-shift]

yeah, I don’t know a ton about the pelosi deal, bad people come in all varieties. For me, the deep state stuff is a pile up of incidents that has led me to not believe any they say or do. Russian dossier used to spy, they go out of there way to say that the hunter laptop is fake, they charge trump with dozens of crimes months out from an election ( for crimes that supposedly happened years ago ) all of the sudden all at once, the Whitmer kidnapping stinks to high heaven, they go out of there way to arrest elderly people praying at an abortion clinic….. and then I’m supposed to believe they accidentally didn’t cover the most obvious spot in that entire scene. It’s to much to digest, I don’t have any faith in federal law enforcement

Well, bad people do come in all varieties and that was my point. There are nutcases on both sides.

My opinion is there are a lot of explanations pertaining to the other issues your bringing up that are more sensible than some deep state deal. Not that government doesn't have its problems, it clearly does. But as Governments go, ours has been reasonably successful for a long time.

 

[jsfgators]

Well, bad people do come in all varieties and that was my point. There are nutcases on both sides.

My opinion is there are a lot of explanations pertaining to the other issues your bringing up that are more sensible than some deep state deal. Not that government doesn't have its problems, it clearly does. But as Governments go, ours has been reasonably successful for a long time.

I think your opinion is dangerously naive. I also think that your ideas around cooperation with postmodern commies is foolish. These are things that must be defeated, not coexistence. We can negotiate and debate tax rates, regulations, the degree to which we will have a welfare state…. All perfectly acceptable to coexist with. It’s the postmodern erasure of normative behavior that cannot be tolerated. Gender / sexuality / nuclear family / borders / ever shifting word meanings / nation states and so on. They are not interested in coexistence with tradional people, and we only harm our children and grandchildren by giving a single inch to it.

 

[Illegal-shift]

I think your opinion is dangerously naive. I also think that your ideas around cooperation with postmodern commies is foolish. These are things that must be defeated, not coexistence. We can negotiate and debate tax rates, regulations, the degree to which we will have a welfare state…. All perfectly acceptable to coexist with. It’s the postmodern erasure of normative behavior that cannot be tolerated. Gender / sexuality / nuclear family / borders / ever shifting word meanings / nation states and so on. They are not interested in coexistence with tradional people, and we only harm our children and grandchildren by giving a single inch to it.

We shall see who is naive and foolish as this thing plays out over the next 4-8 years. I am not saying they are right and you are wrong on issues (I agree more with you than with them).........I AM saying that you are trying to control the majority with a hard line minority and I don't see a future in that. I see a massive blowback coming if Trump and MAGA push too hard - politics have always had a pendulum effect anyway. In the end, the my way or the highway approach, IMO, will not bring the result you are hoping for and will likely do more harm to your cause than good. Hopefully Trump will be smart and move more towards the middle assuming he becomes president again - but I won't hold my breath. If not there will be more trouble. What form it ultimately takes I have no idea, but it ain't hard to see it coming.
Is there any actual democracy around the world that hasn't moved farther to the left than the US already? Why is that?

Time will tell. And I hope I end up being wrong.

 

[NavigatorII]

We shall see who is naive and foolish as this thing plays out over the next 4-8 years. I am not saying they are right and you are wrong on issues (I agree more with you than with them).........I AM saying that you are trying to control the majority with a hard line minority and I don't see a future in that. I see a massive blowback coming if Trump and MAGA push too hard - politics have always had a pendulum effect anyway. In the end, the my way or the highway approach, IMO, will not bring the result you are hoping for and will likely do more harm to your cause than good. Hopefully Trump will be smart and move more towards the middle assuming he becomes president again - but I won't hold my breath. If not there will be more trouble. What form it ultimately takes I have no idea, but it ain't hard to see it coming.
Is there any actual democracy around the world that hasn't moved farther to the left than the US already? Why is that?

Time will tell. And I hope I end up being wrong.

 

[treygator29]

First, thanks......I am quite comfortable in my own skin and my status in life, nothing said on here is going to have any effect on me - other than to hopefully learn something about why people think the way they do. I also converse with a lot of people in other places who don't agree with this forum.....so there is that. I appreciate the civil discourse despite us disagreeing on some things.

But, again, you appear to be chastising the left for their Rhetoric and absolving Trump for his.......because he is brash its OK for him to say whatever he wants?

Lets review a sample of some other things and not take this one instant in a vacuum.

1) What rhetoric led a right wing conspiracy theorist to invade Nancy Pelosi's home and beat her husband with a hammer leaving him severely injured?

2) What rhetoric lead to this:
"On October 8, 2020, the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) announced the arrests of 13 men suspected of orchestrating a domestic terror plot to kidnap American politician Gretchen Whitmer, the Governor of Michigan, and otherwise using violence to overthrow the state government.[1][2][3][4] Some have labeled the attempt as an example of stochastic terrorism, where violent rhetoric by prominent figures inspired the plot."

3) What rhetoric lead to the January 6th attack on the Capital? We know what Mitch McConnel said shortly after the attack:

"There’s no question — none — that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. No question about it,” he said then, calling it “a disgraceful, disgraceful dereliction of duty.”

4) where did some of the Hitler stuff come from - did the Dems just make that up? Well...there is this from Trumps former chief of staff:

“He said, ‘Well, but Hitler did some good things.’ I said, ‘Well, what?’ And he said, ‘Well, [Hitler] rebuilt the economy.’ But what did he do with that rebuilt economy? He turned it against his own people and against the world. And I said, ‘Sir, you can never say anything good about the guy. Nothing,’” retired Marine Gen. John Kelly said. “It’s pretty hard to believe he missed the Holocaust, though, and pretty hard to understand how he missed the 400,000 American GIs that were killed in the European theater.”

Kelly said Trump, the Republican Party’s presumptive 2024 nominee, admired the loyalty of Nazi leaders and generals to Hitler, aspiring to receive the same loyalty from the U.S. military’s highest ranking officers.

“He would ask about the loyalty issues and about how, when I pointed out to him the German generals as a group were not loyal to him, and in fact tried to assassinate him a few times, and he didn’t know that,” Kelly said. “He truly believed, when he brought us generals in, that we would be loyal — that we would do anything he wanted us to do.”


Just clear as day to me that both sides bear some responsibility in all of these things. Its like two teenagers fighting and both are totally convinced that it is completely the other sides fault.

Both of them are wrong.

And you think the 20 year old kid is cognizant of all these instances and this is why he tried to kill Trump? Or could it be hearing Trump is a nazi by the media every single day for the last 8 years.

I’m not absolving Trump from things he says and does. I’m saying I don’t think that that’s the main reason why he tried to kill him. I highly doubt this kid could have pointed to exact details and instances. I doubt he could explain to you why he thinks he’s a Nazi. He just does. Why? Because the media told him.

You skipped my question or I missed you answering it. Do you think if Trump had been reported fairly and his presidency was reported with just facts and not inflammatory rhetoric, would have this attempt happened?

 

[NavigatorII]

And you think the 20 year old kid is cognizant of all these instances and this is why he tried to kill Trump? Or could it be hearing Trump is a nazi by the media every single day for the last 8 years.

I’m not absolving Trump from things he says and does. I’m saying I don’t think that that’s the main reason why he tried to kill him. I highly doubt this kid could have pointed to exact details and instances. I doubt he could explain to you why he thinks he’s a Nazi. He just does. Why? Because the media told him.

I think one day we'll find out he failed his mission and the real killer snuck out the back door, without Secret Service resistance. More and more is coming out.

 

[Capt Ron 1]

Trey,

You seem like a reasonable guy so I am left shaking my head at this take. How is it that you don't see this flowing from both sides?
Its just "mean tweets", isn't it? Its just words, why does it matter? Or do words carry some weight as you say in your post? If no one cares, what's the point in the tweets? You don't think that played a role in what happened?

Give me a couple hours and I can dig up probably 100 nasty rotten things, quotes, that Donald Trump has spit out against the left....and he has the biggest megaphone in the world. Why doesn't this matter? How about Hannity and Tucker and the most of the Fox news folks........don't their constant vilification of the left matter either?

The ability of folks on the right to blame the left and yet completely absolve Trump is stunning. And note here, I am not blaming Trump.....I am blaming both sides and the ever escalating hate filled rhetoric they both spew. And the social media where everyday people constantly spit hate filed bullshit is even worse......again, on both sides.

And you can go back a lot further than that. Rush Limbaugh preached to his audience for 30 years about how the left was evil, rotten people. I used to listen to him until I came to the realization that he had no interest in getting to the actual truth in anything.

Yes, the left is guilty as you said. We are in agreement on that. But how can you not see the equivalent on the others side?????

Its why I am praying Donald Trump takes a different approach when he speaks to the convention. He has a chance to change the direction a little bit and I hope he takes it. If not, we are likely doomed to see political violence escalate. Maybe we are anyway, but I am trying to remain a little optimistic.

Why are only Republicans getting shot then????? Trump, Scalise, Reagan , attempt on Kavanaugh. RECENTLY...only WE are getting shot at so that kind of could have saved you all that typing......and NO NE is doing it more than the idiot in the white house..and the news media just parrotts him. Your garbage above here is ALL BS.


Someone please paste this so he has to read it.

We shall see who is naive and foolish as this thing plays out over the next 4-8 years. I am not saying they are right and you are wrong on issues (I agree more with you than with them).........I AM saying that you are trying to control the majority with a hard line minority and I don't see a future in that. I see a massive blowback coming if Trump and MAGA push too hard - politics have always had a pendulum effect anyway. In the end, the my way or the highway approach, IMO, will not bring the result you are hoping for and will likely do more harm to your cause than good. Hopefully Trump will be smart and move more towards the middle assuming he becomes president again - but I won't hold my breath. If not there will be more trouble. What form it ultimately takes I have no idea, but it ain't hard to see it coming.
Is there any actual democracy around the world that hasn't moved farther to the left than the US already? Why is that?

Time will tell. And I hope I end up being wrong.

SO UNINFORMED it makes me laugh at you

 

[jsfgators]

We shall see who is naive and foolish as this thing plays out over the next 4-8 years. I am not saying they are right and you are wrong on issues (I agree more with you than with them).........I AM saying that you are trying to control the majority with a hard line minority and I don't see a future in that. I see a massive blowback coming if Trump and MAGA push too hard - politics have always had a pendulum effect anyway. In the end, the my way or the highway approach, IMO, will not bring the result you are hoping for and will likely do more harm to your cause than good. Hopefully Trump will be smart and move more towards the middle assuming he becomes president again - but I won't hold my breath. If not there will be more trouble. What form it ultimately takes I have no idea, but it ain't hard to see it coming.
Is there any actual democracy around the world that hasn't moved farther to the left than the US already? Why is that?

Time will tell. And I hope I end up being wrong.

I agree with you that politics has a pendulum effect. It just seems like when the Romney types republican is in charge of our upswing period they never advance the agenda. They are happy to just pause the leftward creep at best, slow it down at worst. They are just to "nice" to put the interests of their voters front and center. When the left gets in there, they are never afraid of blowback. They are never worried about what will happen when it swings back. They slam their foot on the gas. Offense from the start line. We have men in dresses using womens restrooms for goodness sakes. They push...always. They openly attack the nuclear family. If we take your white towel approach, there will be nothing left for my granchildren. Ill be damned. Id rather burn it to the ground and see what springs from the ashes then to submit to their worldview.