Due to use of the auto pen. No telling who signed those things.
https://ssnews.page.link/wJ8RyjHDERk8ZF2v5
https://ssnews.page.link/wJ8RyjHDERk8ZF2v5
Trump Voids Biden's Pardons
- Thread starter GatorGray
- Start date
I think they are in big trouble here.
It appears that the only EO or pardon that did not use the autopen was Biden's resignation from the race.
If they can prove this is true it won't take much "power" to declare a majority of his actions illegitimate.
Speaker Johnson has also claimed that he has proof Biden didn't know the details of at least one EO he "signed".
I think the more interesting thing will be to learn if Biden ever had any idea of what his administration was doing.
It will not be Trump...it will be the courts who do this. And I think it wil be more than pardons he has trouble with by auto signing, especially since the lefties all of a sudden admitted FJB's mental ability was horrible when they fired him from running for office
No question Biden was mentally challenged and probably wasn't aware of everything he 'signed' but I'll be surprised if Trump, or whomever, overturns pardons.
I was about to say, if his pardons are illegitimate due to using autopen, then any document he signed would be as well.
They aren't pardons if the President didn't sign them. If he used autopen then there's nothing to overturn.
I just groked this, and Presidents using an autopen IS legal. With the big caveat that the president uses it and uses it to save time and is aware of what he is doing.
The fact that Trump is waiting until now to mention this and seems to be implying that someone else used the autopen for Biden and he had no clue, seems to suggest that Trump has found something out that tells him these pardons can be overturned.
This is what Trump always does. He finds EVIDENCE of something happening, and instead of PRESENTING the evidence, he makes a CLAIM.
The media then rushes in to DENY his claims, which in turn AMPLIFIES his claims.
CNN will now have endless segments with lawyers on claiming Trump is wrong.
Then he will later reveal evidence that proves his claims.
"Obama spied on me!" Remember that? Same playbook.
I think at face value, no. Other Presidents have used them, but only a handful of times.
The issue here is EVERYTHING he signed was autopen, and there's evidence of signed bills and/or EO's that he knew nothing about, I think that's where the issue lies.
I think we'd all agree that the President has an obligation to know 1) what he is signing, 2) that he actually signed it. And if you could prove neither were true the Constitutionality of a staffer deciding what gets signed and what doesn't raises some major concerns.
However, specifically referring to the Pardons there does appear to be some requirements that the President is physically present, which we know he was on vacation for many of them. So you need to seperate EO's from the Pardons (there's also debate over whether blanket pardons that mention no crime are even legal in the first place).
I'm not sure I agree.
The autopen per se is not illegitimate, but there are Executive approved documents that require a wet signature.
Pardons and Bills, for example, fall into that category.
But the Heritage Foundation finding that EVERYTHING was autopen does raise concerns, especially given the conversation Speaker Johnson had with him where he was totally unaware of a EO dealing with Russian LNG. It's entirely possible Biden was actually aware of almost nothing his administration executed.
No telling who sign them, authorized them or if Biden even knew what was happening. I believe they said some of the bills that Biden signed off on where also auto pen.
Staffers who signed certain documents without Biden's knowledge
It won't actually happen until someone who received the Pardon is charged with a crime and they say, OH, here is my get out of jail free card (Biden Pardon) and the court says its not valid, and then they have to sue over whether or not the Pardon was legit.
The President can use the auto pen to sign documents, say like federal paychecks, but there has to be documentation that specifically authorizes the use of the auto pen to include the document being signed and the person allowed to use it, or so they were saying on the radio earlier today.
I assumed it was. I grokked it and it said using autopen is ok, assuming the president did it and knew what he was signing.
Based on what he is saying now, it appears Trump has evidence someone else signed some or all of the documents.
Presidential use of the autopen
The use of an autopen—a mechanical device that replicates a person’s signature—by the President of the United States has been a topic of debate, particularly regarding what types of documents it can legally or appropriately be used for. While there is no comprehensive federal law explicitly...
www.michaelrcronin.com
Again, while we knew Biden was compromised it may have been so much worse than it looked.
Apparently, they were six people that were pardoned when Joe was in Saint Croix and unaware that this had been done. Things might start happening at this proving to be true. ...
Herein lies the problem! I think the people who were pardoned prematurely will be in a fix. I do not think those pardons will hold water. Not when they were done before any charged crime. And not being signed like they were.
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