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This is how EVERY democrat feels.

So we agree. We shouldn’t be using legislation to “judge”. Legislation should not judge what marriage is defined as.
As I have stated numerous times, we wouldn’t be having this discussion if ghe Government weren’t trying to do so.

Defining marriage… That was done by the word of God.

We still would be. If not, how would we decide child custody agreements and/or property disputes when marriages end due to death or divorce?

These things are done in court. The court uses law to get that done. Having law means the government is involved.
 
You mean in your post where you said “who am I to judge”?

I've stated numerous times in this thread that I believe homosexuality is a sin and then stated that judging the sinner is not my purview. That's exactly what his post said.
 
Man you love your cliches. You are missing the point entirely. Your morality is drawn from somewhere sir. Where? You said “who am I to judge”. Not me. We are talking “judgement” using your words, not mine.

My question didn’t have to do with laws, because laws can change, as mans moral compass changes. Just look at homosexuality. That changed, and laws changed. We are already seeing things change with minors….see the battle going on in Florida. So, if and when our Politicians change the age of consent…..who are you to judge

I am asking you a very simple question, that you still haven’t answered for some reason.

Where do we get our moral compass that says, we accept homosexuality, (who are we to judge/decide) but we do not accept pedophilia? Just curious where the line gets drawn, and what decides where we draw the line? If the law changes to allow sex with minors…do we change our “judgyness” for a lack of a better term. Along with societal changes?

Again, using your words, not mine. Who are we to judge?

Lastly, I don’t believe you are disputing anything I have said on custodial rights. The recommendation for EVERYONE is to have a will, because anything can happen sir.

We're talking in circles. You seem to be going out of your way not to hear me.

We disagree. /discussion
 
We're talking in circles. You seem to be going out of your way not to hear me.

We disagree. /discussion
Same. You still haven’t even answered the one question. At this point, I don’t believe you will, and I get why. Because it cannot be reconciled with your previous position on “judgement”
 
Where do we get our moral compass that says, we accept homosexuality, (who are we to judge/decide) but we do not accept pedophilia? Just curious where the line gets drawn, and what decides where we draw the line? If the law changes to allow sex with minors…do we change our “judgyness” for a lack of a better term. Along with societal changes?
Interesting side note: When the movie Gone With the Wind aired in theaters, when Clark Gable uttered the line 'Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn', him saying the word 'damn' drew audible gasps from the crowd.

Sadly, most of us get the majority of our moral compass, or sense of right and wrong, from where society is at, in any given moment. If enough people tell us the activity or behavior is acceptable, most of us tend to side with the masses.
 
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Your whole argument ITT reeks of someone with an emotional investment in the topic that's clouding your judgment or at least your ability to see the argument being presented by others.

Just the way it comes across to me.

That's not something you've discerned, I've shared it on this board. My sister is gay and married.

However, I've also stated that it isn't the life I would have chosen for her and that I believe homosexuality is a sin. How much clearer can I be?

I judge the act as sinful. I do not judge the sinner themselves. This is EXACTLY what you yourself have said ITT.

So how are we disagreeing again?
 
We still would be. If not, how would we decide child custody agreements and/or property disputes when marriages end due to death or divorce?

These things are done in court. The court uses law to get that done. Having law means the government is involved.
Yep. End up in court either way. And the point is?

I guess this is an argument for keep Government from legislating marriage, seeing as how it changes nothing.
 
Same. You still haven’t even answered the one question. At this point, I don’t believe you will, and I get why. Because it cannot be reconciled with your previous position on “judgement”

What question would you like answered @jfegaly ?

Use the least number of words possible and ask. If you do that, I guarantee you that I will answer.
 
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Interesting side note: When the movie Gone With the Wind aired in theaters, when Clark Gable uttered the line 'Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn', him saying the word 'damn' drew audible gasps from the crowd.

Sadly, most of us get the majority of our moral compass, or sense of right and wrong, from where society is at, in any given moment. If enough people tell us the activity or behavior is acceptable, most of us tend to side with the masses.
Yes sir. Nailed it. That’s the point.
 
Yep. End up in court either way. And the point is?

That government will be involved in marriage whether you wantnthem to or not. That was your whole point...and I was telling you that it was a fools errand. They will be involved
 
That government will be involved in marriage whether you wantnthem to or not. That was your whole point...and I was telling you that it was a fools errand. They will be involved
Yes, why do they need to be involved from a legislative perspective on marriage. Said it numerous times now. For whatever reason you’re hungup on child custody battles, that as you already mentioned will end up in court regardless of….sexual orientation (gay, straight, etc) or regardless of marital status. So….again, why does marriage need to be legislated by the Government, when as a believer, it began and IS defined in Genesis?

Edited to modify first sentence
 
Yes, why do they need to be involved from a legislative perspective on marriage. Said it numerous times now. For whatever reason you’re hungup on child custody battles, that as you already mentioned will end up in court regardless of….sexual orientation (gay, straight, etc) or regardless of marital status. So….again, why does marriage need to be legislated by the Government, when as a believer, it began and IS defined in Genesis?

Edited to modify first sentence

Is this your question that you claim I haven't answered?

I ask because I have answered it.
 
Why would the government need to be involved in marriage?

  • Marriage ends and the property must be divided
  • One of the married people dies and their property must go through probate (this is made more necessary if they aren't married or can't get married because the church doesn't allow gay marriage). The property would have to legally be given to someone. All inheritance goes through probate btw...probate is the government.
  • Child custody issues...thousands of different types
The only alternative to the above is that we give all of the above power to decide to the church. Can you see where that might be an issue?

What if the couple is straight but not Christian? They can't marry?

The government is involved in marriage insofar as to determine legal matters as those are determined by law.
 
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Why would the government need to be involved in marriage?

  • Marriage ends and the property must be divided
  • One of the married people dies and their property must go through probate (this is made more necessary if they aren't married or can't get married because the church doesn't allow gay marriage). The property would have to legally be given to someone. All inheritance goes through probate btw...probate is the government.
  • Child custody issues...thousands of different types
Correct the property must be divided in all those situations. As has been confirmed by you, the courts are going to be involved regardless of marital status or sexual orientation. As I have stated, and can be confirmed by just a little homework, the best thing people can do to assist them regardless of their situation is through a will that states their preferred choice of guardianship. Is it full proof? Nope, but neither is a document stating legally married with government approval.
The only alternative to the above is that we give all of the above power to decide to the church. Can you see where that might be an issue?
Yes, I do see the issue, which is why I stand where I stand. Secular government legislation on a moral issue that is already defined by God, has assisted in eating away at the moral fabric of America. And here we are today going….what did we do wrong to end up here. Why are there so many mental health issues, violence, behavioral issues etc….. So, yes, I do see the issue with taking marriage as defined by God, out of his hands.
What if the couple is straight but not Christian? They can't marry?
huh? One man one woman. Pretty simple requirement.
The government is involved in marriage insofar as to determine legal matters as those are determined by law.
again, see above. As confirmed by you, the courts will get involved regardless of marital status or sexual orientation in matters of custodial dispute. No one is questioning that. There are solutions to assist that are already in place to assist. It’s not my fault you don’t like the number 1 thing people can do to help them with it.


Lastly, I get it, you have an emotional tie that is making this a conflict for you internally. I have a father that is an adulterer, and lead to suicide of my mother. He now has drinking issues and has damaged everyone he has been around. On top of that, one of my very best friends is gay (lesbian). As a friend I had to watch her lose her wife to cancer (eff cancer). Hell I fought to help them the entire battle, donated money, and supported them how I best knew how.

So I get the conflict. That being said, I don’t compromise my morals just to appease something that I know to be sinful and damaging. We all sin for sure. That doesn’t mean I should condone it, or compromise my faith because societal morals change. That has been the point here, and why I brought up pedophilia. Gods word says one man one woman. There is no getting around that uncomfortable truth.

To give you an example of what I mean here with love….I love my father dearly, but loving him MY way didn’t help him, I had to walk away from him, and just continue to pray for him. That was tough, but the decision came through prayer, spending time with God, and doing what was best for my current family. And no, I am not saying that’s the answer to every situation.
 
As has been confirmed by you, the courts are going to be involved regardless of marital status or sexual orientation.

Married couples have rights based upon being married that dating people do not. There would be a difference...but I give up.
 
Lastly, I get it, you have an emotional tie that is making this a conflict for you internally.

I felt the same way before she was married and before I knew she was gay. So no, I'm not having an emotional conflict...we simply disagree.

I believe that we should recognize sin but love the sinner. I think punishment is God's and God's alone. I think marriage is a legal contract. God is at the center of my marriage but that's not true for everyone. I don't believe gay marriage costs me or my marriage anything.

I was trying to be civil and I recognize that you tried too but to intimate that I'm having this reaction because of my emotional tie that's causing me conflict is kind of a dick move. Maybe you're just being a bit bigoted and a little Karen is coming out of you worrying about other people's business. IMO it's between them and our just God.
 
I felt the same way before she was married and before I knew she was gay. So no, I'm not having an emotional conflict...we simply disagree.

I believe that we should recognize sin but love the sinner. I think punishment is God's and God's alone. I think marriage is a legal contract. God is at the center of my marriage but that's not true for everyone. I don't believe gay marriage costs me or my marriage anything.

I was trying to be civil and I recognize that you tried too but to intimate that I'm having this reaction because of my emotional tie that's causing me conflict is kind of a dick move. Maybe you're just being a bit bigoted and a little Karen is coming out of you worrying about other people's business. IMO it's between them and our just God.
Last post on the subject as it does seem you’re a little too emotional to discuss this topic. In post number 88 you acknowledged that you were emotionally invested in the topic. In my last post I tried to acknowledge your emotional tie (that you acknowledged), and tried being sympathetic to you giving my own life examples where I have had conflict in an attempt to have a cordial discussion that showed we had similar life experiences, and you respond by name calling. Calling me a bigot, and karen, and saying it was a dick move? All because someone believes differently than you? Wow, how ironic.

You are right, someone is emotional. I will leave that up to you to reconcile. Again, Happy 4th and Thank you for your service.
 
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And in post #88 I acknowledged no such thing.

Knock that sh1t off because NOW you're starting to piss me off.
DGAF if you’re pissed or not now. Why should I? Your post 88 was in response to ghost saying you your posting comes across as someone emotionally invested in the topic.

your response “That's not something you've discerned, I've shared it on this board. My sister is gay and married.”

If you want to continue raging, by all means, go ahead. I don’t care if the truth pisses you off.
 
That's not something you've discerned, I've shared it on this board. My sister is gay and married.

However, I've also stated that it isn't the life I would have chosen for her and that I believe homosexuality is a sin. How much clearer can I be?

I judge the act as sinful. I do not judge the sinner themselves. This is EXACTLY what you yourself have said ITT.

So how are we disagreeing again?
There it is sir. Now go look at ghosts post that you were replying to, and be pissed
 
DGAF if you’re pissed or not now. Why should I? Your post 88 was in response to ghost saying you your posting comes across as someone emotionally invested in the topic.

your response “That's not something you've discerned, I've shared it on this board. My sister is gay and married.”

He said I was. I didn't. I'm not. It pisses me off a lot more when people like you try to put words in my mouth. If it was something that I was truly bothered by, I damn sure wouldn't share it on this board.

It's not the life I would have chosen for her but I'm not upset by it. I believe in a just God. She, imo, will have to answer for her choices just as I will mine. I love her. That's my role.

If you want to continue raging, by all means, go ahead. I don’t care if the truth pisses you off.

You have an opinion that you're mistaking for the truth. That's pretty cocky of you, but it still doesn't piss me off like you trying to put words in my mouth. Knock that shit off.
 
LOL...I referred to it before I replied to you.

Now you're just trying to be a dick. GFY man.
Goodness. Only one person ITT is pissed off, raging, and name calling. Yet he is, but isn’t emotionally invested. Which should I believe? Post 88 or the recent ones where you’re pissed? Or the ones where you say you aren’t emotionally invested?
 
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He said I was. I didn't. I'm not. It pisses me off a lot more when people like you try to put words in my mouth. If it was something that I was truly bothered by, I damn sure wouldn't share it on this board.

It's not the life I would have chosen for her but I'm not upset by it. I believe in a just God. She, imo, will have to answer for her choices just as I will mine. I love her. That's my role.



You have an opinion that you're mistaking for the truth. That's pretty cocky of you, but it still doesn't piss me off like you trying to put words in my mouth. Knock that shit off.
I am not giving you my opinion, just quoting you, sir.
 
Goodness. Only one person ITT is pissed off, raging, and name calling. Yet he is, but isn’t emotionally invested. Which should I believe? Post 88 or the recent ones where you’re pissed? Or the ones where you say you aren’t emotionally invested?

I'm done with you. Putting words in my mouth pisses me off. I've stated that rather clearly. And yet you continue to try and do that. Believe whatever the hell you want.

WTH is wrong with you?

You can have the last word. IDGAF any longer what you say because you aren't worth it.
 
I'm done with you. Putting words in my mouth pisses me off. I've stated that rather clearly. And yet you continue to try and do that. Believe whatever the hell you want.

WTH is wrong with you?

You can have the last word. IDGAF any longer what you say because you aren't worth it.
You put words on the board, I quoted them, you got emotional on a topic that you have an emotional tie to, but don’t have an emotional tie to. Confusing posts are confusing.

What a time to be alive.
 
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I literally never said that. But here we go again I guess.
Believe it or not, I really don't care or pay much attention to any personal details anyone shares on these boards. As you well know, we have both seen people who made claims in this and other boards about their lives that we later learned were complete fabrications.

So I learned along the way to pretty much ignore anything anyone says on here about their lives. It just doesn't interest me. I have no doubt you repeated it if you said you did. I'm sure @jfegaly has repeated details of his personal life that I couldn't remember if my life depended on it.

That's all I can tell you.
 
Just using your own words sir. Is the topic emotional for you or not? Pretty sure anyone reading this would be confused AF by now.

Let's assume that you are 100% right (you aren't). Let's assume that this is an emotional topic for me that's difficult to talk about (and yet I did and even mentioned my sister which wouldn't make a lot of sense).

Assuming all if that, why would you then continue to be a dick about it...seeming to revel twisting the knife. That would be kind of a dick move, wouldn't it? 😂

Are you just a horrible person that would enjoy causing someone else pain and anguish, since you assumed that's what was going on with me? Who does that? Fortunately I found peace, through God, in my relationship with my sister a long time ago.

You trying to put words in my mouth is the only thing you have done that bothered me. I don't know of anyone who enjoys that. Maybe that's an issue for you...something you've done for a while and I'm sure it's caused you strife. Don't worry bro, I won't try to needle you about it to piss you off further for the sake of some perceived E-win. Because I'm not a horrible person.

😉
 
Let's assume that you are 100% right (you aren't). Let's assume that this is an emotional topic for me that's difficult to talk about (and yet I did and even mentioned my sister which wouldn't make a lot of sense).

Assuming all if that, why would you then continue to be a dick about it...seeming to revel twisting the knife. That would be kind of a dick move, wouldn't it? 😂

Are you just a horrible person that would enjoy causing someone else pain and anguish, since you assumed that's what was going on with me? Who does that? Fortunately I found peace, through God, in my relationship with my sister a long time ago.

You trying to put words in my mouth is the only thing you have done that bothered me. I don't know of anyone who enjoys that. Maybe that's an issue for you...something you've done for a while and I'm sure it's caused you strife. Don't worry bro, I won't try to needle you about it to piss you off further for the sake of some perceived E-win. Because I'm not a horrible person.

😉
Ok. So next thing, are you done with me, or not? Do I trust your word on that or not? YOU keep doing this. Saying one thing, then contradicting it. No need to put words in your mouth, folks can read sir. Are you done posting on this topic? Or you gonna say I put those words in your mouth as well? Again, there is one person in this thread name calling. Which, would lead to an interesting discussion on “horrible person”. Just sayin.

When one points a finger, they have three pointing back at themselves.

FWIW, you do realize when I brought up the word emotional, I was attempting to sympathize with you, don’t you? Yet for some reason, you flew off the deep end with name calling. Oh well. Continue to be non emotional about all this.
 
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