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Tariffs

The question was did it cause a recession.

Yes, monetary policy and 2008 level loose lending caused it but tarriffs deepened and lengethened it. There is no debate around that unless one wants to engage in revisionist history.

A lot of people have lost a lot of money for something I certainly did not vote for - a broad tariff war. Please let’s go back to 2024 threads and find where we discussed this as a board.

Retirees, both sets of my parents, my friends and me. I have added a year of working and increased layoff risk if we hit a recession.

Hate the mean tweets or not, the economy did quite well under Trump 1.

I also saw a segment from Thomas Sowell. He panned these Tariffs and cited exactly the 1930s.

If this does nothing but create a quarter of a buying opportunity - fine.

If we get a global recession - sorry, not what I signed up for.

Put life back into the Democrats when they were knocked out of existence? Didn’t sign up for that either.

We shall see.
I saw the Sowell video and I honestly think he's one of the great economic minds of our time, but economists disagree all of the time. See below.

Trump did very similar things in 2018 and the economy was rolling prior to Covid. It's too simplistic to say tariffs always have the same effect on the economy, and a dip in the stock market is a reaction, it's not realized.

I don't understand how altering import/exports, which are less than 15% of our GDP, is going to tank the global economy. 50 countries have already come to the table to negotiate (and only 2 are playing hardball), and we only enacted 1/2 of the tariffs they've placed on us. If tariffs always lead to a recession, how was the economy operating with the tariffs that were already in place?

We're gonna have let this play out but early returns look exceedingly positive.

"Paul Krugman writes that protectionism does not lead to recessions. According to him, the decrease in imports (which can be obtained by the introduction of tariffs) has an expansionary effect, i.e. favorable to growth. Thus in a trade war, since exports and imports will decrease equally, for the whole world, the negative effect of a decrease in exports will be compensated by the expansionary effect of a decrease in imports. A trade war therefore does not cause a recession. Furthermore, he notes that the Smoot–Hawley tariff did not cause the Great Depression. The decline in trade between 1929 and 1933 "was almost entirely a consequence of the Depression, not a cause. Trade barriers were a response to the Depression, in part a consequence of deflation."[97]"
 

Bill Ackman of all people - the individual who went nuclear on University of Pennsylvania through the incredible work of Elise Stepanik.

Trump gets a quarter, maybe two. Then if he is doing sustained economic damage, he loses the middle swing voters, who due to three things:

Immigration, Inflation and Identity Politics swung to Trump.

Approaching Bear market this morning. I am here in Seaside. Retirees and near-retirees (I am in my early 50s) are very angry. Most of them voted for Trump in 24.
Anyone freaking out needs to calm their tits.

Grab some popcorn and watch the show.

Anyone living on the day to day of the stock market is an idiot, at any age. A bear market doesn't happen in 3 weeks.
 
Anyone freaking out needs to calm their tits.

Grab some popcorn and watch the show.

Anyone living on the day to day of the stock market is an idiot, at any age. A bear market doesn't happen in 3 weeks.
It's a negotiating tactic so we are treated fairly in International trade. Simple as that. So the markets freak out for a few weeks because they don't like uncertainty. It'll pass soon enough but the playing field will have been leveled as a result.
 
It's a negotiating tactic so we are treated fairly in International trade. Simple as that. So the markets freak out for a few weeks because they don't like uncertainty. It'll pass soon enough but the playing field will have been leveled as a result.
bingo.gif

And if you're right it will help not only our economy, but the global economy as increased free trade should lift all ships

It's just gonna be bumpy getting there
 
No one is. It is all bluster to harm Trump. Its all they have. Unless you are selling...STFU.
What's even more ridiculous than all of this bluster and the Soros-funded protests is that the timing is terrible right now. There's no election or anything to be gained from doing all of this. The midterms are still a long way away and any perceived momentum you think you could gain now will long since be lost by November of 2026.

The only reason that makes any sense is that they're terrified that Trump will be wildly successful and then they're screwed in the Midterms and the Presidential election in 2028. Even still, they have become the whiny party that no man worth his salt would want anything to do with.
 
What's even more ridiculous than all of this bluster and the Soros-funded protests is that the timing is terrible right now. There's no election or anything to be gained from doing all of this. The midterms are still a long way away and any perceived momentum you think you could gain now will long since be lost by November of 2026.

The only reason that makes any sense is that they're terrified that Trump will be wildly successful and then they're screwed in the Midterms and the Presidential election in 2028. Even still, they have become the whiny party that no man worth his salt would want anything to do with.
I think Trump is getting enormous pressure to get something done quickly. It is what I am hearing. I think he will make some deals with friendly nations soon, but China gonna pay $$$$$
 
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As far as everyone saying this is going according to Bessent’s plan, it is not. Bessent has been talking since November about getting bond yields down (ie prices up, meaning US debt is marketable).

Letting some of the air out of the stock markets was supposed to boost bond prices as people took their money out of stocks and put them in bonds (flight to safety).

But after stocks melting 20 percent, the bond market barely moved and now yields are climbing. China responded to Trumps threats to jack up tariffs another 50 percent by selling $50 billion worth today.

We need people, including foreign markets and ideally the Chinese, to buy the debt to get rates down so we can cut if necessary. That is a fundamental plank of Bessent’s plan and it is not happening.

As far as an alternative approach? How about phase in the tariffs? 5 percent now across the board, another 5 in 6 months, etc… with maximum pain looming in the distance. That way manufacturers can make plans to reshore and we can build the infrastructure and train people up.

Currently we can’t back off until people comply but compliance is extremely complicated and expensive. And now we’re stuck with our stock markets melting down in the meantime.

The Twitter poster above is a very solid Trump supporter. Ive seen quite a few smart people who supported the concept of tariffs, who are absolutely horrified at the way this has been rolled out.
 
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As far as everyone saying this is going according to Bessent’s plan, it is not. Bessent has been talking since November about getting bond yields down (ie prices up, meaning US debt is marketable).

Letting some of the air out of the stock markets was supposed to boost bond prices as people took their money out of stocks and put them in bonds (flight to safety).

But after stocks melting 20 percent, the bond market barely moved and now yields are climbing. China responded to Trumps threats to jack up tariffs another 50 percent by selling $50 billion worth today.

We need people, including foreign markets and ideally the Chinese, to buy the debt to get rates down so we can cut if necessary. That is a fundamental plank of Bessent’s plan and it is not happening.

As far as an alternative approach? How about phase in the tariffs? 5 percent now across the board, another 5 in 6 months, etc… with maximum pain looming in the distance. That way manufacturers can make plans to restore and we can build the infrastructure and train people up.

Currently we can’t back off until people comply but compliance is extremely complicated and expensive. And now we’re stuck with our stock markets melting down in the meantime.

The Twitter poster above is a very solid Trump supporter. Ive seen quite a few smart people who supported the concept of tariffs, who are absolutely horrified at the way this has been rolled out.
I am hearing some of this also.
 
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Damn, Oprah was a fat Fuchs.



 
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As far as everyone saying this is going according to Bessent’s plan, it is not. Bessent has been talking since November about getting bond yields down (ie prices up, meaning US debt is marketable).

Letting some of the air out of the stock markets was supposed to boost bond prices as people took their money out of stocks and put them in bonds (flight to safety).

But after stocks melting 20 percent, the bond market barely moved and now yields are climbing. China responded to Trumps threats to jack up tariffs another 50 percent by selling $50 billion worth today.

We need people, including foreign markets and ideally the Chinese, to buy the debt to get rates down so we can cut if necessary. That is a fundamental plank of Bessent’s plan and it is not happening.

As far as an alternative approach? How about phase in the tariffs? 5 percent now across the board, another 5 in 6 months, etc… with maximum pain looming in the distance. That way manufacturers can make plans to restore and we can build the infrastructure and train people up.

Currently we can’t back off until people comply but compliance is extremely complicated and expensive. And now we’re stuck with our stock markets melting down in the meantime.

The Twitter poster above is a very solid Trump supporter. Ive seen quite a few smart people who supported the concept of tariffs, who are absolutely horrified at the way this has been rolled out.
Bessent has said he doesn't care about the stock market. Lowering 10 year-yields are the focus.
 
So Trump has found a way to increase tariffs (which normally DECREASES investment for all countries involved), yet he's BOOSTING investments in the US at the same time?

What does this mean? If it continues, that means Trump has been able to create an environment where everyone will move investments out of countries like China and into the US.

Keep telling yourselves that Trump and Bessent don't know what they are doing.
 
Anyone freaking out needs to calm their tits.

Grab some popcorn and watch the show.

Anyone living on the day to day of the stock market is an idiot, at any age. A bear market doesn't happen in 3 weeks.
A sidecar to all of this were the weak AF demonstrations last weekend, hands off social security. I see normally clear headed people freaked out about that. There has been NO threat to curbing social security benefits, whatsoever. NONE! Now there was serious talk about stream lining processes, upgrading software and laying off dead wood in that area...........but people as a rule are sheep, they will believe whatever the left and lame assed MSM feed them.:rolleyes: I will add, I am retired and collect SS. The amount of DEI, dumbassed, barely speaking English employed by that agency is appalling. :mad:
 
I wouldn't be surprised if we have a recession these first 2 Qs but we will be better off long term and it's better to get it out of the way now.
I have been thinking we are teetering on either a boom, or a downfall for months. I think after this made up scare goes away very soon, which it will, things are really going to get better, fast. All the other indicators are going the correct way. Inflation crashing, oil dropping, rates lowering. It COULD go the other way too, but with those factors I mention, it would not last long, especially with a real President in charge. I would really suggest investing in the market right now.....watch where it is next year at this time. Remember, the legacy media is doing their best to help create uncertainty. Trump will start completing some of these deals VERY soon that show everyone WHY he did what he did, which to me was crucial in saving America. This I know...what we were doing was going to REALLY lead us in to trouble, one we may never recover from. We HAD to win this election to rid the world of these globalists that wanted to bleed America for the better of every other Country
 
I think that was the strategy from the get go. I said this weeks ago. Neither Trump nor other countries want a trade war that hurts the entire global economy,,,,,but from the U.S. view, the countries who have been abusing the tariff game needed to be called out, and now they have been. Now it is a matter of resolve to see who blinks first. I think we come out better off and the other countries will eventually bend the knee and get in line knowing it will hurt them worse if they don't. It might be painful domestically for a short while, but the long game is we will be better off at the end of the day when they back off of their tariffs. It is like ripping off a bandaid so the wound will heal better. We will soon see, but the MSM will still whine like a wounded buffalo with their TDS, even if we win, they will spin it some other way. EFF EM.
I agree. If the goal is to drop tarriffs all around and get them to buy at least some of our stuff (which the Japanese do not do) then great. One quarter should not impact people materially.

I DO worry about Peter Navarro. He needs to watch it with Trump.

Dude is on a sugar high right now and Trump needs to be sure that he doesn’t go overboard and turn this into some quasi-religious war.
Beating against America & Trump at the same time is very, very foolish…
I will say, whether you love Trump, hate Trump or sit someone in between, Trump has proven to be the most resilient individual in my lifetime. I don’t think I am engaging in hyperbole there.

He gets non-linear results.

If this all results in trade tariffs going down and our trade up, no recession (this is key) and at worse a buying opportunity, even if not “perfect”, then yes, people need to STFU and give him credit - which I will be very happy to do.
 
If this all results in trade tariffs going down and our trade up, no recession (this is key) and at worse a buying opportunity, even if not “perfect”, then yes, people need to STFU and give him credit - which I will be very happy to do.
This is one big mistake that many people make in criticizing Trump. They focus only on one area of his policy, and ignore how it ties into everything else. Much of what Trump does, if done by itself, logically will not work.

But Trump always has complex plans that have multiple moving parts. It's how he is able to achieve those 'non-linear' results that you correctly spotted.

And the media always has a vested interest in bashing ALL his plans. Trump's success costs them money.

We need to remember that.
 
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I agree. If the goal is to drop tarriffs all around and get them to buy at least some of our stuff (which the Japanese do not do) then great. One quarter should not impact people materially.

I DO worry about Peter Navarro. He needs to watch it with Trump.

Dude is on a sugar high right now and Trump needs to be sure that he doesn’t go overboard and turn this into some quasi-religious war.

I will say, whether you love Trump, hate Trump or sit someone in between, Trump has proven to be the most resilient individual in my lifetime. I don’t think I am engaging in hyperbole there.

He gets non-linear results.

If this all results in trade tariffs going down and our trade up, no recession (this is key) and at worse a buying opportunity, even if not “perfect”, then yes, people need to STFU and give him credit - which I will be very happy to do.
Because you love America.
 
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Poor RINOS AND DEMONCATS and the loathsome # Fakenews media


TDS crowd has moved the goalposts. Last week it was all the stock market, 10-year yield didnt matter.

Now, the stock market is up, and 10-year yield is up. Suddenly Trump haters dont care about the stock market, it's all about the 10-year yield.

Either way, Trump is lowering the amount of our debt that China carries. Either way, his plan is working.
 
I’m concerned that in a week this thread is going to be talking about how a deep recession/possible depression is necessary and has always been the plan.
 
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I’m concerned that in a week this thread is going to be talking about how a deep recession/possible depression is necessary and has always been the plan.
I think there is a bunch of over reacting, which is understandable. When you realize it is either status quo, or make the US stronger by either reducing other tariffs on us, or moving more jobs to America...I am in for either of those.
 
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