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Tariffs

The question was did it cause a recession.

Yes, monetary policy and 2008 level loose lending caused it but tarriffs deepened and lengethened it. There is no debate around that unless one wants to engage in revisionist history.

A lot of people have lost a lot of money for something I certainly did not vote for - a broad tariff war. Please let’s go back to 2024 threads and find where we discussed this as a board.

Retirees, both sets of my parents, my friends and me. I have added a year of working and increased layoff risk if we hit a recession.

Hate the mean tweets or not, the economy did quite well under Trump 1.

I also saw a segment from Thomas Sowell. He panned these Tariffs and cited exactly the 1930s.

If this does nothing but create a quarter of a buying opportunity - fine.

If we get a global recession - sorry, not what I signed up for.

Put life back into the Democrats when they were knocked out of existence? Didn’t sign up for that either.

We shall see.
I saw the Sowell video and I honestly think he's one of the great economic minds of our time, but economists disagree all of the time. See below.

Trump did very similar things in 2018 and the economy was rolling prior to Covid. It's too simplistic to say tariffs always have the same effect on the economy, and a dip in the stock market is a reaction, it's not realized.

I don't understand how altering import/exports, which are less than 15% of our GDP, is going to tank the global economy. 50 countries have already come to the table to negotiate (and only 2 are playing hardball), and we only enacted 1/2 of the tariffs they've placed on us. If tariffs always lead to a recession, how was the economy operating with the tariffs that were already in place?

We're gonna have let this play out but early returns look exceedingly positive.

"Paul Krugman writes that protectionism does not lead to recessions. According to him, the decrease in imports (which can be obtained by the introduction of tariffs) has an expansionary effect, i.e. favorable to growth. Thus in a trade war, since exports and imports will decrease equally, for the whole world, the negative effect of a decrease in exports will be compensated by the expansionary effect of a decrease in imports. A trade war therefore does not cause a recession. Furthermore, he notes that the Smoot–Hawley tariff did not cause the Great Depression. The decline in trade between 1929 and 1933 "was almost entirely a consequence of the Depression, not a cause. Trade barriers were a response to the Depression, in part a consequence of deflation."[97]"
 
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Bill Ackman of all people - the individual who went nuclear on University of Pennsylvania through the incredible work of Elise Stepanik.

Trump gets a quarter, maybe two. Then if he is doing sustained economic damage, he loses the middle swing voters, who due to three things:

Immigration, Inflation and Identity Politics swung to Trump.

Approaching Bear market this morning. I am here in Seaside. Retirees and near-retirees (I am in my early 50s) are very angry. Most of them voted for Trump in 24.
Anyone freaking out needs to calm their tits.

Grab some popcorn and watch the show.

Anyone living on the day to day of the stock market is an idiot, at any age. A bear market doesn't happen in 3 weeks.
 
Anyone freaking out needs to calm their tits.

Grab some popcorn and watch the show.

Anyone living on the day to day of the stock market is an idiot, at any age. A bear market doesn't happen in 3 weeks.
It's a negotiating tactic so we are treated fairly in International trade. Simple as that. So the markets freak out for a few weeks because they don't like uncertainty. It'll pass soon enough but the playing field will have been leveled as a result.
 
It's a negotiating tactic so we are treated fairly in International trade. Simple as that. So the markets freak out for a few weeks because they don't like uncertainty. It'll pass soon enough but the playing field will have been leveled as a result.
bingo.gif

And if you're right it will help not only our economy, but the global economy as increased free trade should lift all ships

It's just gonna be bumpy getting there
 
No one is. It is all bluster to harm Trump. Its all they have. Unless you are selling...STFU.
What's even more ridiculous than all of this bluster and the Soros-funded protests is that the timing is terrible right now. There's no election or anything to be gained from doing all of this. The midterms are still a long way away and any perceived momentum you think you could gain now will long since be lost by November of 2026.

The only reason that makes any sense is that they're terrified that Trump will be wildly successful and then they're screwed in the Midterms and the Presidential election in 2028. Even still, they have become the whiny party that no man worth his salt would want anything to do with.
 
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What's even more ridiculous than all of this bluster and the Soros-funded protests is that the timing is terrible right now. There's no election or anything to be gained from doing all of this. The midterms are still a long way away and any perceived momentum you think you could gain now will long since be lost by November of 2026.

The only reason that makes any sense is that they're terrified that Trump will be wildly successful and then they're screwed in the Midterms and the Presidential election in 2028. Even still, they have become the whiny party that no man worth his salt would want anything to do with.
I think Trump is getting enormous pressure to get something done quickly. It is what I am hearing. I think he will make some deals with friendly nations soon, but China gonna pay $$$$$
 


As far as everyone saying this is going according to Bessent’s plan, it is not. Bessent has been talking since November about getting bond yields down (ie prices up, meaning US debt is marketable).

Letting some of the air out of the stock markets was supposed to boost bond prices as people took their money out of stocks and put them in bonds (flight to safety).

But after stocks melting 20 percent, the bond market barely moved and now yields are climbing. China responded to Trumps threats to jack up tariffs another 50 percent by selling $50 billion worth today.

We need people, including foreign markets and ideally the Chinese, to buy the debt to get rates down so we can cut if necessary. That is a fundamental plank of Bessent’s plan and it is not happening.

As far as an alternative approach? How about phase in the tariffs? 5 percent now across the board, another 5 in 6 months, etc… with maximum pain looming in the distance. That way manufacturers can make plans to reshore and we can build the infrastructure and train people up.

Currently we can’t back off until people comply but compliance is extremely complicated and expensive. And now we’re stuck with our stock markets melting down in the meantime.

The Twitter poster above is a very solid Trump supporter. Ive seen quite a few smart people who supported the concept of tariffs, who are absolutely horrified at the way this has been rolled out.
 
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As far as everyone saying this is going according to Bessent’s plan, it is not. Bessent has been talking since November about getting bond yields down (ie prices up, meaning US debt is marketable).

Letting some of the air out of the stock markets was supposed to boost bond prices as people took their money out of stocks and put them in bonds (flight to safety).

But after stocks melting 20 percent, the bond market barely moved and now yields are climbing. China responded to Trumps threats to jack up tariffs another 50 percent by selling $50 billion worth today.

We need people, including foreign markets and ideally the Chinese, to buy the debt to get rates down so we can cut if necessary. That is a fundamental plank of Bessent’s plan and it is not happening.

As far as an alternative approach? How about phase in the tariffs? 5 percent now across the board, another 5 in 6 months, etc… with maximum pain looming in the distance. That way manufacturers can make plans to restore and we can build the infrastructure and train people up.

Currently we can’t back off until people comply but compliance is extremely complicated and expensive. And now we’re stuck with our stock markets melting down in the meantime.

The Twitter poster above is a very solid Trump supporter. Ive seen quite a few smart people who supported the concept of tariffs, who are absolutely horrified at the way this has been rolled out.
I am hearing some of this also.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: nail1988


As far as everyone saying this is going according to Bessent’s plan, it is not. Bessent has been talking since November about getting bond yields down (ie prices up, meaning US debt is marketable).

Letting some of the air out of the stock markets was supposed to boost bond prices as people took their money out of stocks and put them in bonds (flight to safety).

But after stocks melting 20 percent, the bond market barely moved and now yields are climbing. China responded to Trumps threats to jack up tariffs another 50 percent by selling $50 billion worth today.

We need people, including foreign markets and ideally the Chinese, to buy the debt to get rates down so we can cut if necessary. That is a fundamental plank of Bessent’s plan and it is not happening.

As far as an alternative approach? How about phase in the tariffs? 5 percent now across the board, another 5 in 6 months, etc… with maximum pain looming in the distance. That way manufacturers can make plans to restore and we can build the infrastructure and train people up.

Currently we can’t back off until people comply but compliance is extremely complicated and expensive. And now we’re stuck with our stock markets melting down in the meantime.

The Twitter poster above is a very solid Trump supporter. Ive seen quite a few smart people who supported the concept of tariffs, who are absolutely horrified at the way this has been rolled out.
Bessent has said he doesn't care about the stock market. Lowering 10 year-yields are the focus.
 
So Trump has found a way to increase tariffs (which normally DECREASES investment for all countries involved), yet he's BOOSTING investments in the US at the same time?

What does this mean? If it continues, that means Trump has been able to create an environment where everyone will move investments out of countries like China and into the US.

Keep telling yourselves that Trump and Bessent don't know what they are doing.
 
Anyone freaking out needs to calm their tits.

Grab some popcorn and watch the show.

Anyone living on the day to day of the stock market is an idiot, at any age. A bear market doesn't happen in 3 weeks.
A sidecar to all of this were the weak AF demonstrations last weekend, hands off social security. I see normally clear headed people freaked out about that. There has been NO threat to curbing social security benefits, whatsoever. NONE! Now there was serious talk about stream lining processes, upgrading software and laying off dead wood in that area...........but people as a rule are sheep, they will believe whatever the left and lame assed MSM feed them.:rolleyes: I will add, I am retired and collect SS. The amount of DEI, dumbassed, barely speaking English employed by that agency is appalling. :mad:
 
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