RCP has changed...

[fatman76]

And Biden no longer has 270.

@BSC911 - might want to recork that bubbly. Time to settle in for a real effed up ride. It's possible there's fvckery afoot.

2020 is freaking bananas

 

[BSC911]

And Biden no longer has 270.

@BSC911 - might want to recork that bubbly. Time to settle in for a real effed up ride. It's possible there's fvckery afoot.

2020 is freaking bananas

There is a wager out there if you are that confident.

Man or mouse? Put your money where your mouth is.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

And Biden no longer has 270.

@BSC911 - might want to recork that bubbly. Time to settle in for a real effed up ride. It's possible there's fvckery afoot.

2020 is freaking bananas

Has @BSC911 left yet?

 

[fatman76]

There is a wager out there if you are that confident.

Man or mouse? Put your money where your mouth is.

I don't gamble on anything. I don't even put $1 in the slots when I'm in Vegas for work. And honestly even if I did I'd pick Biden to be the next president...I just think there are too many chips stacked against Trump. I think the cheating was pervasive and widespread, and likely insurmountable. Right now he'd have to take WI, MI, GA away and hold NC. That's going to take some doing, I don't know if I see it.

But you seem defensive...my advice is to calm down, pop some corn and settle in. It's going to be a wild ride these next few weeks.

Regardless, RCP was pointed to for months as the source for polling that showed Biden was going to landslide this thing. For them to admit the ground is shaky is certainly a development. And it's a tad bit hypocritical to spike the football on projections, then ignore them when they point the other way.

 

[BSC911]

I don't gamble on anything. I don't even put $1 in the slots when I'm in Vegas for work. And honestly even if I did I'd pick Biden to be the next president...I just think there are too many chips stacked against Trump. I think the cheating was pervasive and widespread, and likely insurmountable. Right now he'd have to take WI, MI, GA away and hold NC. That's going to take some doing, I don't know if I see it.

But you seem defensive...my advice is to calm down, pop some corn and settle in. It's going to be a wild ride these next few weeks.

Regardless, RCP was pointed to for months as the source for polling that showed Biden was going to landslide this thing. For them to admit the ground is shaky is certainly a development. And it's a tad bit hypocritical to spike the football on projections, then ignore them when they point the other way.

And what makes you think it was “pervasive and widespread” despite all indications otherwise except on conspiracy site.

im quite calm, just enjoying the Trump meltdown and the big Gator win. Not to mention the FSU dumpster fire.

I never posted election poll results, it’ was always the Trumpers doing that. They are too unreliable.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

I don't gamble on anything. I don't even put $1 in the slots when I'm in Vegas for work. And honestly even if I did I'd pick Biden to be the next president...I just think there are too many chips stacked against Trump. I think the cheating was pervasive and widespread, and likely insurmountable. Right now he'd have to take WI, MI, GA away and hold NC. That's going to take some doing, I don't know if I see it.

But you seem defensive...my advice is to calm down, pop some corn and settle in. It's going to be a wild ride these next few weeks.

Regardless, RCP was pointed to for months as the source for polling that showed Biden was going to landslide this thing. For them to admit the ground is shaky is certainly a development. And it's a tad bit hypocritical to spike the football on projections, then ignore them when they point the other way.

Gambling is a tax on the poor. The poor are frequently that way cause they make bad financial decisions.

See, spending your last $10 on a Rivals subscription, then when your acct gets canceled, you try to raise more money by betting. Goodness.

 

[gator1776]

Gambling is a tax on the poor. The poor are frequently that way cause they make bad financial decisions.

See, spending your last $10 on a Rivals subscription, then when your acct gets canceled, you try to raise more money by betting. Goodness.

OK I laughed.

 

[Dr. Curmudgeon]

There is a wager out there if you are that confident.

Man or mouse? Put your money where your mouth is.

I think anyone who bets on anyone or anything other than themselves is a fool.

 

[fatman76]

And what makes you think it was “pervasive and widespread” despite all indications otherwise except on conspiracy site.

im quite calm, just enjoying the Trump meltdown and the big Gator win. Not to mention the FSU dumpster fire.

I never posted election poll results, it’ was always the Trumpers doing that. They are too unreliable.

There are too many coincidences that all go one direction for it not be widespread. And I'm careful to make sure I see the data, hear the first hand account, etc.
- All of the "irregularities" with Dominion vote counting machines favor Biden - there are thousands of votes that were switched from Trump to Biden in several battlegound states...and I bet they find more
- All of the overnight "ballot dumps" were statistically impossible in favor of Biden
- The impossible turnout in WI - 1/3rd of the precincts were over 94% turnout 90%+ for Biden. Only Putin gets that type of turnout, it doesn't happen in a free election.
- All of the dead people that voted in MI - I saw with my own eyes, checking a random sample, proof that 110+ YO's voted in person. It's not even hard to find, it's public record.
- The video of 2 AM deliveries of what appear to be boxes of ballots with no chain of custody or other observers right before the late night miracle spikes. See below for example.
- The willful violation of the court order requiring the separation of ballots by type.
- The fact that the dem observers outnumber the GOP observers 3 to 1.
- The counters cheering as GOP observers are removed.
- Biden outperforming Obama among these few urban vote dumps, even though Trump picked up points in every demographic group in the rest of the country.
- The ratios of these vote dumps favoring Biden more in these few battlegrounds than the ratio for the rest of the country (even the bluest of the blue).
- The ballot dumps appear to have caused a statistical anomaly and as such, violate Benford's Law (a tool used by forensic data investigators to find vote and tax fraud)
- The first hand testimony of a ballot count observer who noted that during her entire 8 hour shift 7k votes were counted, in the hour immediately after 100k were counted and all were for Biden - seriously the video is a little tough to watch but it's pretty convincing, she's not a normal "Trump Train" supporter, seems extremely genuine
- The funeral home worker in TX who registered all of their patients and voted (we now know there are 65k nursing home patients who ALL registered on the same day in PA)
- Hundreds of sworn affidavits of people who witnessed fraud (which might be why Barr is finally stepping in)
- In 3 different battleground states you have hidden cam video of Postal Service employees talking about being asked to back date postmarks, give away blank ballots, etc. I can share but they're Veritas, so you probably wouldn't watch...but Veritas doesn't generate content, you hear the real people saying these things as they happen. It's hard to refute.
- The fact that Trump's lawyers have identified 450k votes with no one selected downballot...and we have a ton of history to tell us this is an extreme (perhaps impossible) anomaly



Impossible turnout numbers in WI - data from the state (easier to work with if you paste into Excel)

I could keep going, there's tons more, but the bottom line is any of these taken by themselves I could accept as a coincidence. But when every one points the same direction...it just doesn't pass the sniff test. Just show me the one data point, anecdote, etc. that shows it benefitted Trump. I'm seriously asking, because I don't want to believe it's this bad.

But if your news source says "no evidence" - it says alot about their integrity. Even the most biased journalist has to take a step back and be open to the possibility our elections system is broke AF.

 

[gator1776]

There are too many coincidences that all go one direction for it not be widespread. And I'm careful to make sure I see the data, hear the first hand account, etc.
- All of the "irregularities" with Dominion vote counting machines favor Biden - there are thousands of votes that were switched from Trump to Biden in several battlegound states...and I bet they find more
- All of the overnight "ballot dumps" were statistically impossible in favor of Biden
- The impossible turnout in WI - 1/3rd of the precincts were over 94% turnout 90%+ for Biden. Only Putin gets that type of turnout, it doesn't happen in a free election.
- All of the dead people that voted in MI - I saw with my own eyes, checking a random sample, proof that 110+ YO's voted in person. It's not even hard to find, it's public record.
- The video of 2 AM deliveries of what appear to be boxes of ballots with no chain of custody or other observers right before the late night miracle spikes. See below for example.
- The willful violation of the court order requiring the separation of ballots by type.
- The fact that the dem observers outnumber the GOP observers 3 to 1.
- The counters cheering as GOP observers are removed.
- Biden outperforming Obama among these few urban vote dumps, even though Trump picked up points in every demographic group in the rest of the country.
- The ratios of these vote dumps favoring Biden more in these few battlegrounds than the ratio for the rest of the country (even the bluest of the blue).
- The ballot dumps appear to have caused a statistical anomaly and as such, violate Benford's Law (a tool used by forensic data investigators to find vote and tax fraud)
- The first hand testimony of a ballot count observer who noted that during her entire 8 hour shift 7k votes were counted, in the hour immediately after 100k were counted and all were for Biden - seriously the video is a little tough to watch but it's pretty convincing, she's not a normal "Trump Train" supporter, seems extremely genuine
- The funeral home worker in TX who registered all of their patients and voted (we now know there are 65k nursing home patients who ALL registered on the same day in PA)
- Hundreds of sworn affidavits of people who witnessed fraud (which might be why Barr is finally stepping in)
- In 3 different battleground states you have hidden cam video of Postal Service employees talking about being asked to back date postmarks, give away blank ballots, etc. I can share but they're Veritas, so you probably wouldn't watch...but Veritas doesn't generate content, you hear the real people saying these things as they happen. It's hard to refute.
- The fact that Trump's lawyers have identified 450k votes with no one selected downballot...and we have a ton of history to tell us this is an extreme (perhaps impossible) anomaly

View embedded media

Impossible turnout numbers in WI - data from the state (easier to work with if you paste into Excel)

I could keep going, there's tons more, but the bottom line is any of these taken by themselves I could accept as a coincidence. But when every one points the same direction...it just doesn't pass the sniff test. Just show me the one data point, anecdote, etc. that shows it benefitted Trump. I'm seriously asking, because I don't want to believe it's this bad.

But if your news source says "no evidence" - it says alot about their integrity. Even the most biased journalist has to take a step back and be open to the possibility our elections system is broke AF.

Dude he’s a snowflake, he can’t read pass the second sentence before he gets confused and board and gives up. He’s got fries to fry

 

[BSC911]

There are too many coincidences that all go one direction for it not be widespread. And I'm careful to make sure I see the data, hear the first hand account, etc.
- All of the "irregularities" with Dominion vote counting machines favor Biden - there are thousands of votes that were switched from Trump to Biden in several battlegound states...and I bet they find more
- All of the overnight "ballot dumps" were statistically impossible in favor of Biden
- The impossible turnout in WI - 1/3rd of the precincts were over 94% turnout 90%+ for Biden. Only Putin gets that type of turnout, it doesn't happen in a free election.
- All of the dead people that voted in MI - I saw with my own eyes, checking a random sample, proof that 110+ YO's voted in person. It's not even hard to find, it's public record.
- The video of 2 AM deliveries of what appear to be boxes of ballots with no chain of custody or other observers right before the late night miracle spikes. See below for example.
- The willful violation of the court order requiring the separation of ballots by type.
- The fact that the dem observers outnumber the GOP observers 3 to 1.
- The counters cheering as GOP observers are removed.
- Biden outperforming Obama among these few urban vote dumps, even though Trump picked up points in every demographic group in the rest of the country.
- The ratios of these vote dumps favoring Biden more in these few battlegrounds than the ratio for the rest of the country (even the bluest of the blue).
- The ballot dumps appear to have caused a statistical anomaly and as such, violate Benford's Law (a tool used by forensic data investigators to find vote and tax fraud)
- The first hand testimony of a ballot count observer who noted that during her entire 8 hour shift 7k votes were counted, in the hour immediately after 100k were counted and all were for Biden - seriously the video is a little tough to watch but it's pretty convincing, she's not a normal "Trump Train" supporter, seems extremely genuine
- The funeral home worker in TX who registered all of their patients and voted (we now know there are 65k nursing home patients who ALL registered on the same day in PA)
- Hundreds of sworn affidavits of people who witnessed fraud (which might be why Barr is finally stepping in)
- In 3 different battleground states you have hidden cam video of Postal Service employees talking about being asked to back date postmarks, give away blank ballots, etc. I can share but they're Veritas, so you probably wouldn't watch...but Veritas doesn't generate content, you hear the real people saying these things as they happen. It's hard to refute.
- The fact that Trump's lawyers have identified 450k votes with no one selected downballot...and we have a ton of history to tell us this is an extreme (perhaps impossible) anomaly

View embedded media

Impossible turnout numbers in WI - data from the state (easier to work with if you paste into Excel)

I could keep going, there's tons more, but the bottom line is any of these taken by themselves I could accept as a coincidence. But when every one points the same direction...it just doesn't pass the sniff test. Just show me the one data point, anecdote, etc. that shows it benefitted Trump. I'm seriously asking, because I don't want to believe it's this bad.

But if your news source says "no evidence" - it says alot about their integrity. Even the most biased journalist has to take a step back and be open to the possibility our elections system is broke AF.

Of course there is evidence of SOME voter fraud, as there is in most every major election. A guy in Texas was just charged.

But most of what you listed is just speculation. You’ll need a lot more than that.

 

[gator1776]

Of course there is evidence of SOME voter fraud.p, as there is in most every major election. A guy in Texas was just charged.

But most of what you listed is just speculation. You’ll need a lot more than that.

Right on cue, they’ve switched from there’s no evidence of voter fraud to there is evidence of voter fraud but it wasn’t enough to affect the election. Do they like email out the talking point playbook before the election?

 

[BSC911]

Dude he’s a snowflake, he can’t read pass the second sentence before he gets confused and board and gives up. He’s got fries to fry

You used to be a good poster. Now you just resort to the same lame insults as the other nut cases. It’s sad to watch.

Congrats. You and Ghost, two of a kind trolls.

 

[gator1776]

You used to be a good poster. Now you just resort to the same lame insults as the other nut cases. It’s sad to watch.

Congrats. You and Ghost, two of a kind trolls.

😘

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

There is no evidence of voter fraud
There's some voter fraud, but it's not widespread <---YOU ARE HERE
There may have been voter fraud, but there's no evidence it changed any outcomes
There may have been voter fraud, but there's no evidence it changed the outcome of the election
Barr is working for Trump
ACB is working for Trump
Trump stole this election


We will next see polls from MSM saying that 'a majority of people believe Hiden is the president elect' and many more 'sources within the White House are saying Trump is being advised to concede'.

 

[BSC911]

Right on cue, they’ve switched from there’s no evidence of voter fraud to there is evidence of voter fraud but it wasn’t enough to affect the election. Do they like email out the talking point playbook before the election?

No, that’s always been the case. You think out of 150 million ballots cast there wont always be a few anomalies?

That’s a big difference between saying the election officials are outright changing votes or making up fake ballots. But you keep holding out hope. im sure it will work out for you.

 

[LizardGrad89]

There are too many coincidences that all go one direction for it not be widespread. And I'm careful to make sure I see the data, hear the first hand account, etc.
- All of the "irregularities" with Dominion vote counting machines favor Biden - there are thousands of votes that were switched from Trump to Biden in several battlegound states...and I bet they find more
- All of the overnight "ballot dumps" were statistically impossible in favor of Biden
- The impossible turnout in WI - 1/3rd of the precincts were over 94% turnout 90%+ for Biden. Only Putin gets that type of turnout, it doesn't happen in a free election.
- All of the dead people that voted in MI - I saw with my own eyes, checking a random sample, proof that 110+ YO's voted in person. It's not even hard to find, it's public record.
- The video of 2 AM deliveries of what appear to be boxes of ballots with no chain of custody or other observers right before the late night miracle spikes. See below for example.
- The willful violation of the court order requiring the separation of ballots by type.
- The fact that the dem observers outnumber the GOP observers 3 to 1.
- The counters cheering as GOP observers are removed.
- Biden outperforming Obama among these few urban vote dumps, even though Trump picked up points in every demographic group in the rest of the country.
- The ratios of these vote dumps favoring Biden more in these few battlegrounds than the ratio for the rest of the country (even the bluest of the blue).
- The ballot dumps appear to have caused a statistical anomaly and as such, violate Benford's Law (a tool used by forensic data investigators to find vote and tax fraud)
- The first hand testimony of a ballot count observer who noted that during her entire 8 hour shift 7k votes were counted, in the hour immediately after 100k were counted and all were for Biden - seriously the video is a little tough to watch but it's pretty convincing, she's not a normal "Trump Train" supporter, seems extremely genuine
- The funeral home worker in TX who registered all of their patients and voted (we now know there are 65k nursing home patients who ALL registered on the same day in PA)
- Hundreds of sworn affidavits of people who witnessed fraud (which might be why Barr is finally stepping in)
- In 3 different battleground states you have hidden cam video of Postal Service employees talking about being asked to back date postmarks, give away blank ballots, etc. I can share but they're Veritas, so you probably wouldn't watch...but Veritas doesn't generate content, you hear the real people saying these things as they happen. It's hard to refute.
- The fact that Trump's lawyers have identified 450k votes with no one selected downballot...and we have a ton of history to tell us this is an extreme (perhaps impossible) anomaly

View embedded media

Impossible turnout numbers in WI - data from the state (easier to work with if you paste into Excel)

I could keep going, there's tons more, but the bottom line is any of these taken by themselves I could accept as a coincidence. But when every one points the same direction...it just doesn't pass the sniff test. Just show me the one data point, anecdote, etc. that shows it benefitted Trump. I'm seriously asking, because I don't want to believe it's this bad.

But if your news source says "no evidence" - it says alot about their integrity. Even the most biased journalist has to take a step back and be open to the possibility our elections system is broke AF.

I would appreciate if those (like you) who do not understand statistics would stop trying to call statistics into play.

Look, this is simple. Biden told his supporters to vote by mail, so as to stay safe during COVID. Trump told his supporters to vote on election day (which I think he did because he believed he could delay the mail in ballots past election day and that would invalidate them. And he was wrong about that.) So the mail in ballots were HEAVILY democratic. Even from pro-Trump districts, because Democrats voted by mail and Republicans didn't. So, if 90% of the ballots were for Biden, then (and this is where statistics actually does factor in), then there was a 90% chance that any individual ballot would be for Biden. But since they were all going to be opened and counted, that is the total population, and statistics is not applicable.

The fallacy in your thinking is looking at the election as a whole as a single population, when the reality is there were two distinct populations, the in person voting and the mail in voting. Look at it like two closed boxes. One box is counted first (the in person voting), and it's basically 50-50 between red chips and blue chips. Where your logic falls down is believing that the first box population dictates what is in the second box. But it does not. That is an entirely different population, where the chips come from a different place and were put into the box under different criteria. So the first box has nothing to do with the second box, and your contention that because the first box is 50-50 means the second box has to be 50-50 is erroneous.

 

[fatman76]

I would appreciate if those (like you) who do not understand statistics would stop trying to call statistics into play.

Look, this is simple. Biden told his supporters to vote by mail, so as to stay safe during COVID. Trump told his supporters to vote on election day (which I think he did because he believed he could delay the mail in ballots past election day and that would invalidate them. And he was wrong about that.) So the mail in ballots were HEAVILY democratic. Even from pro-Trump districts, because Democrats voted by mail and Republicans didn't. So, if 90% of the ballots were for Biden, then (and this is where statistics actually does factor in), then there was a 90% chance that any individual ballot would be for Biden. But since they were all going to be opened and counted, that is the total population, and statistics is not applicable.

The fallacy in your thinking is looking at the election as a whole as a single population, when the reality is there were two distinct populations, the in person voting and the mail in voting. Look at it like two closed boxes. One box is counted first (the in person voting), and it's basically 50-50 between red chips and blue chips. Where your logic falls down is believing that the first box population dictates what is in the second box. But it does not. That is an entirely different population, where the chips come from a different place and were put into the box under different criteria. So the first box has nothing to do with the second box, and your contention that because the first box is 50-50 means the second box has to be 50-50 is erroneous.

First off, I’ve taken grad level stat classes. I don’t use it in my everyday job in Marketing, but don’t treat me like I have zero clue.

Secondly I never even mentioned mail in because I know they’d skew D. The ballot dumps didn’t come from the post office.

You addressed literally zero of the above list and you ignored the main point - it’s the preponderance of coincidence that has my attention.

 

[gator1776]

First off, I’ve taken grad level stat classes. I don’t use it in my everyday job in Marketing, but don’t treat me like I have zero clue.

Secondly I never even mentioned mail in because I know they’d skew D. The ballot dumps didn’t come from the post office.

You addressed literally zero of the above list and you ignored the main point - it’s the preponderance of coincidence that has my attention.

I mean I believe him. I’ve never known a fat person not to be good at statistics. They’re just not good at applying them.

 

[LizardGrad89]

First off, I’ve taken grad level stat classes. I don’t use it in my everyday job in Marketing, but don’t treat me like I have zero clue.

Secondly I never even mentioned mail in because I know they’d skew D. The ballot dumps didn’t come from the post office.

You addressed literally zero of the above list and you ignored the main point - it’s the preponderance of coincidence that has my attention.

Ok, well, let's address Benford's law. I'd love to know how these ballots are able to violate Benford's law. You have to have NUMBERS to violate Benford's law, and you have to take all those numbers and run a Benford's law test on them. A ballot, as it is bubbled in ovals, has no numbers to test. They don't even have return addresses on them.

Look dude, I am a CPA, been one nearly 25 years, and I have done fraud investigations and Benford's law tests. You have no idea what you are talking about here. But I'm sure you are just parroting what somebody else wrote, hoping for the ignorance of the readers.

Marketing. LOL, GTFO.

 

[gator1776]

No, that’s always been the case. You think out of 150 million ballots cast there wont always be a few anomalies?

That’s a big difference between saying the election officials are outright changing votes or making up fake ballots. But you keep holding out hope. im sure it will work out for you.

What’s an easy fix. Just require government issued photo identification to vote.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Ok, well, let's address Benford's law. I'd love to know how these ballots are able to violate Benford's law. You have to have NUMBERS to violate Benford's law, and you have to take all those numbers and run a Benford's law test on them. A ballot, as it is bubbled in ovals, has no numbers to test. They don't even have return addresses on them.

Look dude, I am a CPA, been one nearly 25 years, and I have done fraud investigations and Benford's law tests. You have no idea what you are talking about here. But I'm sure you are just parroting what somebody else wrote, hoping for the ignorance of the readers.

Marketing. LOL, GTFO.

Benford's Law was referenced here a couple of days ago and you had never heard of it. Google saves the day once again.

 

[LizardGrad89]

What’s an easy fix. Just require government issued photo identification to vote.

Totally in favor of this, as long as we provide them free of charge and in such a way as to not cause a barrier to those less fortunate. I would couple them with improved opportunities to vote, such as additional early voting days and longer hours, and free transportation to the polls both on election day and the early voting days. Give me a system where everybody who can vote has a reasonable opportunity to do so, while blocking anyone not eligible to vote.

 

[gator1776]

Totally in favor of this, as long as we provide them free of charge and in such a way as to not cause a barrier to those less fortunate. I would couple them with improved opportunities to vote, such as additional early voting days and longer hours, and free transportation to the polls both on election day and the early voting days. Give me a system where everybody who can vote has a reasonable opportunity to do so, while blocking anyone not eligible to vote.

Completely agree it should be free of charge and easy to get. Voting should be done in person and you should have one month in which to vote. When polls close votes are tallied immediately. And boat should be tallied by either an independent party or an equal number of Republicans and Democrats at each polling place.

In the end the vast majority American simply want a fair election that people can believe it. Not this kangaroo crap we got this year.

 

[BSC911]

What’s an easy fix. Just require government issued photo identification to vote.

I’m all for voter ID. As long as it’s easily available.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Totally in favor of this, as long as we provide them free of charge and in such a way as to not cause a barrier to those less fortunate. I would couple them with improved opportunities to vote, such as additional early voting days and longer hours, and free transportation to the polls both on election day and the early voting days. Give me a system where everybody who can vote has a reasonable opportunity to do so, while blocking anyone not eligible to vote.

When dems say they are against voter suppression, they mean they are against ILLEGAL voter suppression.

Republicans have pushed for Voter ID for years, dems always oppose.

Now Trump is going to show the nation why dems don't want Voter ID.

And in the process, he's going to make an airtight case for getting it passed in 2021.

End of the democratic party. Told you this was your last presidential election, didn't I?

 

[fatman76]

Of course there is evidence of SOME voter fraud, as there is in most every major election. A guy in Texas was just charged.

But most of what you listed is just speculation. You’ll need a lot more than that.

I provided data, videos, statistics, and nearly zero conjecture. The only big opinion provided is that I can’t ignore how everything that's come out since last Tuesday favors Biden.

And again, 300 lawsuits and an FBI investigation isn’t really an indication that this is all nothing. None of those lawsuits would have been taken up if there was no evidence.

It would be refreshing to someday have an honest intellectual conversation free from tribalism-induced ignoring of clear fact patterns and data. There's so much more at stake here than who the president is for the next 4 years, but we seem to care more about winning than what's good for the country.

 

[LizardGrad89]

Completely agree it should be free of charge and easy to get. Voting should be done in person and you should have one month in which to vote. When polls close votes are tallied immediately. And boat should be tallied by either an independent party or an equal number of Republicans and Democrats at each polling place.

In the end the vast majority American simply want a fair election that people can believe it. Not this kangaroo crap we got this year.

A fair election everybody can believe in is one of the bedrock foundations of a Democracy or Republic, and may well be the most fundamental of them all.

I do believe you are overblowing the "kangaroo" aspect of this election. The narrative I'm seeing from Trump and Republicans in general is that the Democrats are smart enough to create hundreds of thousands of false ballots that are good enough to pass muster and be counted, and savvy enough to have a conspiracy involving hundreds if not thousands of people where nobody blabbed. Yet how could a group of people that empowered, that organized, that detailed, not notice that they weren't going to gain control of the Senate? Having the Presidency and the House isn't worth beans if you don't have the Senate as well. You would think such a powerful group could also slide a few senatorial races their way.

 

[BSC911]

I provided data, videos, statistics, and nearly zero conjecture. The only big opinion provided is that I can’t ignore how everything that's come out since last Tuesday favors Biden.

And again, 300 lawsuits and an FBI investigation isn’t really an indication that this is all nothing. None of those lawsuits would have been taken up if there was no evidence.

It would be refreshing to someday have an honest intellectual conversation free from tribalism-induced ignoring of clear fact patterns and data. There's so much more at stake here than who the president is for the next 4 years, but we seem to care more about winning than what's good for the country.

Anyone can file a lawsuit. Even for nothing. We’ll see how many actually get heard.

I have no problem letting the lawsuits take their course. I’m just saying I expect nothing to come from them, and they just seem a desperate attempt to delay the inevitable. We‘ll see.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

A fair election everybody can believe in is one of the bedrock foundations of a Democracy or Republic, and may well be the most fundamental of them all.

I do believe you are overblowing the "kangaroo" aspect of this election. The narrative I'm seeing from Trump and Republicans in general is that the Democrats are smart enough to create hundreds of thousands of false ballots that are good enough to pass muster and be counted, and savvy enough to have a conspiracy involving hundreds if not thousands of people where nobody blabbed. Yet how could a group of people that empowered, that organized, that detailed, not notice that they weren't going to gain control of the Senate? Having the Presidency and the House isn't worth beans if you don't have the Senate as well. You would think such a powerful group could also slide a few senatorial races their way.

Nah, Republicans are saying there's enough odd things that happened that we should audit the election in the areas where those odd things are happening.

If cheating is confirmed, then those votes should be disqualified.

Any honest person wants the same thing. Simple as that.

 

[LizardGrad89]

I provided data, videos, statistics, and nearly zero conjecture. The only big opinion provided is that I can’t ignore how everything that's come out since last Tuesday favors Biden.

And again, 300 lawsuits and an FBI investigation isn’t really an indication that this is all nothing. None of those lawsuits would have been taken up if there was no evidence.

It would be refreshing to someday have an honest intellectual conversation free from tribalism-induced ignoring of clear fact patterns and data. There's so much more at stake here than who the president is for the next 4 years, but we seem to care more about winning than what's good for the country.

300 lawsuits only requires one very busy lawyer. I mean, Trump has more than 1, but 1 is all that's required. Several suits have already been thrown out of court for lack of evidence, but it takes time. I would say that these "some election worker saw" tweets have been debunked, one after another, so I would go back on some of this and look again.

I did see that Barr has broken with longstanding DOJ policy and allowed prosecutors to start inquiries right away, the response of which was the head of election crimes quit. I'll be interested to see if any investigations are done in states that voted Republican, or if it's only going to be in states that Trump lost closely. Because if it's only in states that swing the election, then it isn't about rooting out and punishing fraud, it's about changing the election outcome. Finding and punishing fraud, that's a DOJ responsibility. Changing the outcomes of elections is not.

 

[BSC911]

300 lawsuits only requires one very busy lawyer. I mean, Trump has more than 1, but 1 is all that's required. Several suits have already been thrown out of court for lack of evidence, but it takes time. I would say that these "some election worker saw" tweets have been debunked, one after another, so I would go back on some of this and look again.

I did see that Barr has broken with longstanding DOJ policy and allowed prosecutors to start inquiries right away, the response of which was the head of election crimes quit. I'll be interested to see if any investigations are done in states that voted Republican, or if it's only going to be in states that Trump lost closely. Because if it's only in states that swing the election, then it isn't about rooting out and punishing fraud, it's about changing the election outcome. Finding and punishing fraud, that's a DOJ responsibility. Changing the outcomes of elections is not.

Exactly. Do you really think they actually care about fraud that’s in their favor? Of course not.

Hypocrites. All of them.

 

[fatman76]

300 lawsuits only requires one very busy lawyer. I mean, Trump has more than 1, but 1 is all that's required. Several suits have already been thrown out of court for lack of evidence, but it takes time. I would say that these "some election worker saw" tweets have been debunked, one after another, so I would go back on some of this and look again.

I did see that Barr has broken with longstanding DOJ policy and allowed prosecutors to start inquiries right away, the response of which was the head of election crimes quit. I'll be interested to see if any investigations are done in states that voted Republican, or if it's only going to be in states that Trump lost closely. Because if it's only in states that swing the election, then it isn't about rooting out and punishing fraud, it's about changing the election outcome. Finding and punishing fraud, that's a DOJ responsibility. Changing the outcomes of elections is not.

I agree but it's not who the state voted for, it's where the anomalies are. If there aren't people coming forward with sworn affidavits about back dating postmarks from Texas, for example, then why deploy resources there?

And let me ask you this - and just use your imagination - what would proof of "widespread voter fraud" look like to you, in a way that you'd believe it?

 

[fatman76]

Exactly. Do you really think they actually care about fraud that’s in their favor? Of course not.

Hypocrites. All of them.

I've asked numerous times for evidence of fraud in red states that benefit Trump, it would strangely make me feel better.

How again am I a hypocrite?

 

[LizardGrad89]

I agree but it's not who the state voted for, it's where the anomalies are. If there aren't people coming forward with sworn affidavits about back dating postmarks from Texas, for example, then why deploy resources there?

And let me ask you this - and just use your imagination - what would proof of "widespread voter fraud" look like to you, in a way that you'd believe it?

How do you know there aren't sworn affidavits from those states? All the tweets and suchlike you have been getting your info from are part of a narrative being pushed nationally by Republicans. You think they are going to put up tweets about alleged voter fraud in a red state? Think about this: Dominion voting systems are used in 33 states. The contention is that they are susceptible to fraud, but you are only seeing complaints from the battleground states Trump lost. Why is that?

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Ah I see a new talking point is emerging: "Republicans only care about voter fraud when it helps them! Hypocrites!"

Reminder: A week ago every dem here claimed voter fraud was a right-wing conspiracy theory.

Where will we be in a week from now? Keep watching...

 

[fatman76]

How do you know there aren't sworn affidavits from those states? All the tweets and suchlike you have been getting your info from are part of a narrative being pushed nationally by Republicans. You think they are going to put up tweets about alleged voter fraud in a red state? Think about this: Dominion voting systems are used in 33 states. The contention is that they are susceptible to fraud, but you are only seeing complaints from the battleground states Trump lost. Why is that?

You're asking me to prove the absence of something...how bout this, why don't you prove they exist? Seems like a more logical approach.

I'm honestly getting tired of asking for examples of red fraud in this election. And don't tell me it's because the media is biased in favor of the right. I'm pretty sure we'd all know if this evidence existed.

And you didn't answer my question.

 

[fatman76]

Ah I see a new talking point is emerging: "Republicans only care about voter fraud when it helps them! Hypocrites!"

Reminder: A week ago every dem here claimed voter fraud was a right-wing conspiracy theory.

Where will we be in a week from now? Keep watching...

I try to be level headed, fact based, calm...but it's wearing on me. Just want to have an honest conversation.

 

[LizardGrad89]

I agree but it's not who the state voted for, it's where the anomalies are. If there aren't people coming forward with sworn affidavits about back dating postmarks from Texas, for example, then why deploy resources there?

And let me ask you this - and just use your imagination - what would proof of "widespread voter fraud" look like to you, in a way that you'd believe it?

Every mail in ballot is attached to a person in the voter registration database, and signed. Give me a thousand (maybe even a hundred) ballots where the signatures all look like they are from the same person (this one is tricky because maybe people just have similar signature styles). Give me a significant number of ballots with a signature that does not match the signature in the system. Give me a list of people who have been dead for years that evidently voted. Find registered Republicans who voted for Biden and ask them if that's true, and have them say it's not (this is the test for voting machine fraud).

Now, none of these meet your criteria of "widespread voter fraud". However if they were there, that would be, to me, be grounds for a wider investigation.

Edit: And when I say significant, I mean a statistically significant number. If 100,000 ballots are tested, and three look funny, then no reason to continue.

 

[LizardGrad89]

You're asking me to prove the absence of something...how bout this, why don't you prove they exist? Seems like a more logical approach.

I'm honestly getting tired of asking for examples of red fraud in this election. And don't tell me it's because the media is biased in favor of the right. I'm pretty sure we'd all know if this evidence existed.

And you didn't answer my question.

Doesn't have to be red fraud, I'm just saying fraud in states were the election doesn't hang in the balance. Could be blue fraud in a red state. The point is, if the entire focus of the investigation is to overturn the election, that isn't the DOJ's job.