OT: Shouuld the Astros be stripped of the '17 Title?

[PlutoDroid]

Okay so imagine if we found out Florida'sfirst College World Series was tainted like the Astros. Would you want us to keep it? Would you still support anybody that had anything to do with cheating? Would you boast about it? I know for me it would be nothing, and it would be because as corrupt as the NCAA is, they would have stripped us of it. We would be banned from future World Series appearences . We would be stripped of scholarships. But the MLB has decided to let the Astros keep the title, because according to their commissioner Manfred " It is just a piece of metal". Wow!!! Championships are just pieces of metal now I guess. What an idiot. I guess Pete Rose should be reinstated because he was just betting for green paper .

 

[ih8f$u]

The astros should be stripped of their franchise and forgotten, and everyone who played for them should have to apologize. And I mean the entire history of the franchise, not just the recent World Series thefts. With the possible exception of Nolan Ryan

 

[PlutoDroid]

I actually feel bad for their hardcore fans, they are the only ones that have my sympathy though. I think most of the die hards that bought season tickets, went with them through the 100 loss seasons only to now have the payoff being this is sad. They can't boast about this. It's like a USC fan bragging about '04. Except that was actually taken away so it isn't even official anymore.

 

[NavigatorII]

I give almost zero ****s about baseball..... but isn't sign stealing a "on the down low" source of pride in this sport? So what if it was done with technology. Are they going to strip the Bassmaster's champion of a title for using a depth finder? LMAO.

 

[PlutoDroid]

I'm afraid sign stealing is universal, but installing specific technology into your stadium and relaying this information through buzzers concealed on players is explicitly cheating. Why not just allow corked bats, and weighted balls while we are at it. Sign stealing is human. It's when you use special equipment to aid that the cheating becomes unfair.

 

[Justpeachy7]

I listened to a radio talk show discussing the point on the way in to work. I wish I could remember how the host put it exactly, but I do remember after hearing him explain the reason not to strip the Astros, it was fully convincing.

One caller suggested the alternative of "boycotting" Astro away games, but the host explained that there would always be someone willing to take that person's seat. The host would go on to say that at yesterdays spring training for the Astros, there was a guy pounding on a trash can lid during the teams batting practice. It was explained that people will still show up to extract their piece of flesh.

I wonder if an alternative would be to not allow the Astros to have any home games during the playoffs for the next 15 years, thus making it harder on them.

 

[LizardGrad89]

No to the title stripping. Absolutely no.

As was said, sign stealing is part of the game. Did the Astros go too far? Yes. Should they be penalized for doing so? Yes. Should they be penalized significantly? Probably yes.

But sign stealing is like speeding. If the cops are going to let you go 10 over without a word, you shouldn't get the death penalty for being 40 over.

 

[sadgator]

Is this thread about stripping?

 

[GatorNation79]

I haven't followed it that much...is this because they were stealing calls?

 

[Justpeachy7]

I haven't followed it that much...is this because they were stealing calls?

I haven't followed it that much either, but from what I gather, it is. It was mentioned a while back that one player said that when a batter knows what pitch is coming, it's like batting practice. I also heard that there is a Marlins player(who hit 59 homeruns) say that if he knew what pitch was coming he would have had 80 homeruns.

 

[LizardGrad89]

I haven't followed it that much either, but from what I gather, it is. It was mentioned a while back that one player said that when a batter knows what pitch is coming, it's like batting practice. I also heard that there is a Marlins player(who hit 59 homeruns) say that if he knew what pitch was coming he would have had 80 homeruns.

To reiterate: Everybody steals signs. It's part of the game. For example, guys on second are trying to steal signs and relay them to the batter without being caught; one of the unwritten rules is that if the pitcher thinks the signs are being stolen, he gives the batter a little chin music.

The issue is sign stealing using technology, which is not allowed. But it's likely many teams are doing it. Which is why the Astros will not be punished too harshly. It's very likely that the Astros know of other teams that have done similar things, and have cut a deal to keep quiet in exchange for penalty reductions. We already know about the Red Sox, hey are next on the penalty list, but baseball is desperate to keep a lid on this. If it came out that 20 teams were doing this, it would seriously impact the way people view the game. A couple cheaters getting caught is one thing, finding out half the league is cheating would be a helluva scandal.

 

[GatorNation79]

To reiterate: Everybody steals signs. It's part of the game. For example, guys on second are trying to steal signs and relay them to the batter without being caught; one of the unwritten rules is that if the pitcher thinks the signs are being stolen, he gives the batter a little chin music.

The issue is sign stealing using technology, which is not allowed. But it's likely many teams are doing it. Which is why the Astros will not be punished too harshly. It's very likely that the Astros know of other teams that have done similar things, and have cut a deal to keep quiet in exchange for penalty reductions. We already know about the Red Sox, hey are next on the penalty list, but baseball is desperate to keep a lid on this. If it came out that 20 teams were doing this, it would seriously impact the way people view the game. A couple cheaters getting caught is one thing, finding out half the league is cheating would be a helluva scandal.

Ok...that makes sense...I was going to say everyone is trying to steal signs...that's part of the game but using technology...that's another level lol

 

[PlutoDroid]

To reiterate: Everybody steals signs. It's part of the game. For example, guys on second are trying to steal signs and relay them to the batter without being caught; one of the unwritten rules is that if the pitcher thinks the signs are being stolen, he gives the batter a little chin music.

The issue is sign stealing using technology, which is not allowed. But it's likely many teams are doing it. Which is why the Astros will not be punished too harshly. It's very likely that the Astros know of other teams that have done similar things, and have cut a deal to keep quiet in exchange for penalty reductions. We already know about the Red Sox, hey are next on the penalty list, but baseball is desperate to keep a lid on this. If it came out that 20 teams were doing this, it would seriously impact the way people view the game. A couple cheaters getting caught is one thing, finding out half the league is cheating would be a helluva scandal.

I'm not a huge baseball fan, but I kind of equate it to when the Patriots were looking at the Bengals sideline. Or more severely the whole spygate thing. Cheating is universal, everybody is looking for an edge. But using technology , or equipment to do so Is seriously frowned upon. Especially in baseball, think corked bats, or weighted baseballs.

 

[SwampLander]

That level of cheating here is just rediculous . Hitters are soooo good, a seemingly small advantage like this can have major implications. I do not know if it actually won them the World Series or not, but they would not have been doing it if it was not effective.

The 'stros whined their ass off about the Cardinals a few years ago when a rogue employee hacked their scouting database. The management of the Cardinals were deemed unaware but punished anyway by docking them draft picks.

This is egregious enough to strip them of their title IMO. The fact the owner and players show little remorse just makes things worse. I expect some serious player beanings this year, commissioner warnings in advance given or not.

 

[GatorNation79]

I'm not a huge baseball fan, but I kind of equate it to when the Patriots were looking at the Bengals sideline. Or more severely the whole spygate thing. Cheating is universal, everybody is looking for an edge. But using technology , or equipment to do so Is seriously frowned upon. Especially in baseball, think corked bats, or weighted baseballs.

I think what LG89 said...MLB doesn't want that mess at the front porch

 

[fsu939913]

I think the astros deserve 2 world titles. Bravo to them.

 

[Michi-Gator]

As a baseball coach the last 21 years....

1. Sign stealing is a part of the game. In that we mean a guy gets on second and raises as many hands to indicate pitch. Catcher notices and adjusts. It requires a guy on second the honest way. Then it has to be done in real time. That is NOT what was going on.

2. Yes the title Should be stripped. In the postseason in 2017 the Astors hit like .125 in the road and .340 at home. In game 5 of the series Kershaw threw 39 Sliders. The Astros swung and missed......ONCE. Most dominant lefty of the 2000s, that is clearly a huge advantage gained.

3. This may be the most disgusting thing I have seen in sports.

 

[fsu939913]

As a baseball coach the last 21 years....

1. Sign stealing is a part of the game. In that we mean a guy gets on second and raises as many hands to indicate pitch. Catcher notices and adjusts. It requires a guy on second the honest way. Then it has to be done in real time. That is NOT what was going on.

2. Yes the title Should be stripped. In the postseason in 2017 the Astors hit like .125 in the road and .340 at home. In game 5 of the series Kershaw threw 39 Sliders. The Astros swung and missed......ONCE. Most dominant lefty of the 2000s, that is clearly a huge advantage gained.

3. This may be the most disgusting thing I have seen in sports.

As a baseball coach for the past 22 yrs, this is all wrong

 

[PlutoDroid]

As a baseball coach the last 21 years....

1. Sign stealing is a part of the game. In that we mean a guy gets on second and raises as many hands to indicate pitch. Catcher notices and adjusts. It requires a guy on second the honest way. Then it has to be done in real time. That is NOT what was going on.

2. Yes the title Should be stripped. In the postseason in 2017 the Astors hit like .125 in the road and .340 at home. In game 5 of the series Kershaw threw 39 Sliders. The Astros swung and missed......ONCE. Most dominant lefty of the 2000s, that is clearly a huge advantage gained.

3. This may be the most disgusting thing I have seen in sports.

You are more qualified to speak on this. Is it the technology that made it so egregious? I have absolutely zero knowledge on the ins and outs of the technique . I know types of pitches like curve, sinker, fastball. I don't have the slightest idea of how the scouting report of each pitcher applies to learning his tells though.

 

[fsu939913]

You are more qualified to speak on this. Is it the technology that made it so egregious? I have absolutely zero knowledge on the ins and outs of the technique . I know types of pitches like curve, sinker, fastball. I don't have the slightest idea of how the scouting report of each pitcher applies to learning his tells though.

My guess would be the guy signaling him the calls was being watched

 

[Michi-Gator]

You are more qualified to speak on this. Is it the technology that made it so egregious? I have absolutely zero knowledge on the ins and outs of the technique . I know types of pitches like curve, sinker, fastball. I don't have the slightest idea of how the scouting report of each pitcher applies to learning his tells though.

yes. They stole it using video equipment. That is what makes this so much worse. It was not within the flow of the game. It was blatant cheating.

The numbers difference between home and away that season are astonishing. Very obvious they were using advanced cheating techniques