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grandhavendiddy said:
Again - it is. It's like saying that Napier is not going 5-7. He is. 7 elections; 7 lost.

It is a profound loser for the right. 7 states, where it was directly on the ballet - losses. Wisconsin supreme court - loss, by the way key to a redistricting fight that could cost republicans that state. Michigan governorship - loss. 2022 Senate races: Herschel, Arizona, losses. It goes on and on and on and on and on.

The facts are what they are which is why Democrats ,who otherwise would GET BLASTED INTO OBLIVION keep winning and keep making it a massive issue.

Trump gets it. Matt Gaetz gets it.

View embedded media


See Matt at 1:00 - he talks precisely to what needs to happen in swing districts. "You have members in swing districts who need to refine their thinking".

People run on a range of issues. The question is whether THAT is one of the top 3-5 issues why THAT person won. For Trump - nope. For Millei - nope. People did not overthrow a socialist over abortion - they did it over poverty and inflation. It happened that a libertarian (so I am not sure how this is squaring).

LIsten - I too don't really care about abortion. I just REFUSE TO LOSE BASED ON IT ANYMORE. It's ridiculous.

It's like Billy Napier continuing to run an off-tackle play because "we have to establish the run" because "it's part of our 'core identity'" and then having a losing record.

Politico was not the core media source. It was Sunday Morning Futures with Maria B. (a right leaning show) who interviewed Tudor Dixon, who was NO moderate on abortion and got crushed. It also referenced Trump on Meet the Press. Listen, I do not care about Politico's opinion piece, but when they cite an interview that we can independently see, then it is just them passing along facts and events.

On Voting Fraud - the laws have tightened. I am all for it. For Fraud in the 2020 election, everyone on this board was touting Sidney Powell and the "Kracken" and in the end, she pleaded guilty. Fox news settled for almost a Billion dollars. Tucker left Fox. If they had evidence, like it is CLEAR with Hunter Biden or the Twitter Files or Russian fraud, then NO ONE is backing down. Here they are.

At what point, and perhaps to MDF's point, to you "wake up", see the clear results that are happening and say, "hey, I am going to keep to more core principles, focus on border, inflation and crime" and realize that Abortion is truly a loser issue and not always try to explain away the patently obvious.

I try to "walk that talk". For me, I saw the results on DeSantis and Tim Scott. I was all for them...the results came in, from MSNBC to CNN to Fox to the polls and realized, "yeah, they are not effective and should not lead the party". I did not try to explain away, etc.

I will leave it to you to make whatever decision you wish to make.

Have a great Thanksgiving with friends and family.
Click to expand...


ITT we have shown why we are losing. Besides the cheating, we have wishy washy constituents on the right that are more than happy to compromise with the left. See your posts and the 1 person giddy to capitulate with you. That, is why we are losing the narrative on this issue. A willingness of the right to compromise with the left that never reciprocates. That’s why we are in the mess we are in. Period.

And Since we have already shown most of what you stated to be you cherry picking, and acting like the wins didn’t happen…(really disingenuous BTW).

So I ask you again. How much does the government have to give you to compromise on pedophilia? Less taxes on fuel do the trick?

We will all have to stand before God one day. And if he asks me about protecting his precious unborn…I know where I stand. But hey, You do you.

 
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Russell - it is clear that you come from a morally pure place, and I have a great deal of respect for you because of it.

Hope you and your family had a wonderful Thanksgiving. It was a blessing to be with friends, family and our two amazing Golden Retrievers.
 
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grandhavendiddy said:
Russell - it is clear that you come from a morally pure place, and I have a great deal of respect for you because of it.

Hope you and your family had a wonderful Thanksgiving. It was a blessing to be with friends, family and our two amazing Golden Retrievers.
Click to expand...


Agree. Happy Thanksgiving to you as well sir. I am just curious, as always…how many morals do we need to compromise for the sake of “winning”.

You explained to me the examples of winning. Lower taxes, border security, less spending etc.. and I don’t disagree with those.

My question was pretty straight forward. Where is the do not cross line, and what defines that? But the real question was…

Pedophilia IS the next line. Are lower taxes worth compromise on that? Which of the items you listed as “winning” is for sale for compromise on pedophilia?

No, I am not trying to be an ass (although it does come easily 😉). I am just preparing for that battle, because the chipping away and desensitization of that issue has begun already. How much are the children worth? Yes, I am serious.

A tax deduction? A wall? Smaller budget?

As for me? Children (and yes life begins at conception) are not for sale.

 
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RussellCasse said:
Agree. Happy Thanksgiving to you as well sir. I am just curious, as always…how many morals do we need to compromise for the sake of “winning”.

You explained to me the examples of winning. Lower taxes, border security, less spending etc.. and I don’t disagree with those.

My question was pretty straight forward. Where is the do not cross line, and what defines that? But the real question was…

Pedophilia IS the next line. Are lower taxes worth compromise on that? Which of the items you listed as “winning” is for sale for compromise on pedophilia?

No, I am not trying to be an ass (although it does come easily 😉). I am just preparing for that battle, because the chipping away and desensitization of that issue has begun already. How much are the children worth? Yes, I am serious.

A tax deduction? A wall? Smaller budget?

As for me? Children (and yes life begins at conception) are not for sale.

Click to expand...
Correct, agree with all of this. We cannot continue to compromise on our morals as @grandhavendiddy suggests. All that leads to us the pubs pushing RINO candidates that are simply watered down versions of those on the left.

THAT is why RINOs always lose. If you don't care about morals, why would you vote pub? You will vote for the dem every time. If we run pubs who compromise on some morals and not others, then those candidates don't appeal to voters on the left OR right.

Compromise is how you lose elections. Trump was smart enough to see that, that's why he keeps winning.
 
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RussellCasse said:
Agree. Happy Thanksgiving to you as well sir. I am just curious, as always…how many morals do we need to compromise for the sake of “winning”.

You explained to me the examples of winning. Lower taxes, border security, less spending etc.. and I don’t disagree with those.

My question was pretty straight forward. Where is the do not cross line, and what defines that? But the real question was…

Pedophilia IS the next line. Are lower taxes worth compromise on that? Which of the items you listed as “winning” is for sale for compromise on pedophilia?

No, I am not trying to be an ass (although it does come easily 😉). I am just preparing for that battle, because the chipping away and desensitization of that issue has begun already. How much are the children worth? Yes, I am serious.

A tax deduction? A wall? Smaller budget?

As for me? Children (and yes life begins at conception) are not for sale.

Click to expand...
Not taken as such.

By the way - why this country's morals are changing so quickly? Immigration and demographics. It is absolutely the country's #1 issue, all other issues flow out of it. Just ask the Dutch who just elected a conservative candidate because he saw how their country was changing overnight.

You want to know who agrees with me most on this? Tucker Carlson and Steve Miller. Are they left wingers? Hardly.

Let's get to your question. A fair one.

Life and "rights" begin, in my view, and in the view of most, when the fetus can survive outside of the Womb. Call it 20-24 weeks. Ohio agreed to 23 weeks. Reasonable.

Even Pew research, a center-left organization, has said that 9 out of 10 abortions happen before the first trimester. Only 1% happen after 23 weeks. Of those after 23 weeks, I would imagine, that 70%+, perhaps 95% happens due to issues with the life of the mother. If there are a 1M abortions, in the U.S./year, that is 10,000 that fall in the third trimester, and of those 30%, or 3,000 would happen due to "convenience" or other. That could be as low as 500.

Now, take a look for an argument for mandatory Covid-19 vaccinations for children. Could it have saved 500 lives? Maybe? Are people "child-killers" for not vaccinating? Some on the left, made that argument.

In my view on life, I am not going to lose elections, and other, based on 10,000 to 300 individuals in a country of 330M. More kids die of gun deaths than abortions - even in black and brown communities.

Pedophelia, to use your example, between a minor who cannot give consent and an adult (although you get some very strange anomalies of law where two 17 year olds are dating in H.S., one turns 18, and now there is an "issue". That is both morally wrong and illegal.

Here is the final comment I would make: do you really think that God needs any of our help to morally police the world? Really? Kids die all the time of horrific reasons. Take what is happening in the Gaza Strip. Kids are dying because Hamas will not evacuate Hospitals. Should Israel and the IDF stand down and then have their own people, again, killed, raped and murdered.

I am part jewish and the hard answer is no.


Abortion happens in all parts of the world. Does God ask you to stop at McCallen texas because of the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo in 1848? What about kids who are aborted just south of the border? Does god give you a "pass" because of what James Polk ultimately signed?

That is my view of the world. Is it the right one? Wrong one? To your point, God will decide - not a government.
 
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grandhavendiddy said:
Not taken as such.

By the way - why this country's morals are changing so quickly? Immigration and demographics. It is absolutely the country's #1 issue, all other issues flow out of it. Just ask the Dutch who just elected a conservative candidate because he saw how their country was changing overnight.

You want to know who agrees with me most on this? Tucker Carlson and Steve Miller. Are they left wingers? Hardly.

Let's get to your question. A fair one.

Life and "rights" begin, in my view, and in the view of most, when the fetus can survive outside of the Womb. Call it 20-24 weeks. Ohio agreed to 23 weeks. Reasonable.

Even Pew research, a center-left organization, has said that 9 out of 10 abortions happen before the first trimester. Only 1% happen after 23 weeks. Of those after 23 weeks, I would imagine, that 70%+, perhaps 95% happens due to issues with the life of the mother. If there are a 1M abortions, in the U.S./year, that is 10,000 that fall in the third trimester, and of those 30%, or 3,000 would happen due to "convenience" or other. That could be as low as 500.

Now, take a look for an argument for mandatory Covid-19 vaccinations for children. Could it have saved 500 lives? Maybe? Are people "child-killers" for not vaccinating? Some on the left, made that argument.

In my view on life, I am not going to lose elections, and other, based on 10,000 to 300 individuals in a country of 330M. More kids die of gun deaths than abortions - even in black and brown communities.

Pedophelia, to use your example, between a minor who cannot give consent and an adult (although you get some very strange anomalies of law where two 17 year olds are dating in H.S., one turns 18, and now there is an "issue". That is both morally wrong and illegal.

Here is the final comment I would make: do you really think that God needs any of our help to morally police the world? Really? Kids die all the time of horrific reasons. Take what is happening in the Gaza Strip. Kids are dying because Hamas will not evacuate Hospitals. Should Israel and the IDF stand down and then have their own people, again, killed, raped and murdered.

I am part jewish and the hard answer is no.


Abortion happens in all parts of the world. Does God ask you to stop at McCallen texas because of the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo in 1848? What about kids who are aborted just south of the border? Does god give you a "pass" because of what James Polk ultimately signed?

That is my view of the world. Is it the right one? Wrong one? To your point, God will decide - not a government.
Click to expand...


Just going to answer a couple of the items here. OU football game. 😉

Our Founders said everyone has the RIGHT to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I am with them on that. That you don’t have the RIGHT to “choice”.

I don’t care what others like Tucker say on this. I just don’t.

As for, does God NEED our help? Nope. Does God want us to do the right thing? Yep. Does God use people to achieve things? ABSOLUTELY.

In fact, THE BOOK explains this multiple times. So need? NO. Want? You bet.

BTW. More child deaths from guns than abortions? Nope, and it’s not even close. Not even in the same stratosphere

For perspective. The numbers on abortion in 2020 (the last yr we have data)

Was between 630k and 950k depending on source.

Gun deaths that yr to children? Around 2200

Last thing…

Standing on Morals means doing the right thing no matter what others do. It means, statistics don’t matter. It means standing your ground despite what what society believes is right at the time. Ones morals should not change just because society moves their moral compass because the wind blew.

Morality, like truth…never changes.

And FWIW…abortion is something so disgusting, that the owners and mods of this site, won’t allow the photos to be shown. That pretty much sums it up.

Hell, the people supporting abortion, were the ones crying loudest about them. Interesting.
 
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RussellCasse said:
ITT we have shown why we are losing. Besides the cheating, we have wishy washy constituents on the right that are more than happy to compromise with the left. See your posts and the 1 person giddy to capitulate with you. That, is why we are losing the narrative on this issue. A willingness of the right to compromise with the left that never reciprocates. That’s why we are in the mess we are in. Period.

And Since we have already shown most of what you stated to be you cherry picking, and acting like the wins didn’t happen…(really disingenuous BTW).

So I ask you again. How much does the government have to give you to compromise on pedophilia? Less taxes on fuel do the trick?

We will all have to stand before God one day. And if he asks me about protecting his precious unborn…I know where I stand. But hey, You do you.

View embedded media
Click to expand...
Are you a compulsive personality who can’t help proving you’re a fool everyday?
 
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grandhavendiddy said:
Not taken as such.

By the way - why this country's morals are changing so quickly? Immigration and demographics. It is absolutely the country's #1 issue, all other issues flow out of it. Just ask the Dutch who just elected a conservative candidate because he saw how their country was changing overnight.

You want to know who agrees with me most on this? Tucker Carlson and Steve Miller. Are they left wingers? Hardly.

Let's get to your question. A fair one.

Life and "rights" begin, in my view, and in the view of most, when the fetus can survive outside of the Womb. Call it 20-24 weeks. Ohio agreed to 23 weeks. Reasonable.

Even Pew research, a center-left organization, has said that 9 out of 10 abortions happen before the first trimester. Only 1% happen after 23 weeks. Of those after 23 weeks, I would imagine, that 70%+, perhaps 95% happens due to issues with the life of the mother. If there are a 1M abortions, in the U.S./year, that is 10,000 that fall in the third trimester, and of those 30%, or 3,000 would happen due to "convenience" or other. That could be as low as 500.

Now, take a look for an argument for mandatory Covid-19 vaccinations for children. Could it have saved 500 lives? Maybe? Are people "child-killers" for not vaccinating? Some on the left, made that argument.

In my view on life, I am not going to lose elections, and other, based on 10,000 to 300 individuals in a country of 330M. More kids die of gun deaths than abortions - even in black and brown communities.

Pedophelia, to use your example, between a minor who cannot give consent and an adult (although you get some very strange anomalies of law where two 17 year olds are dating in H.S., one turns 18, and now there is an "issue". That is both morally wrong and illegal.

Here is the final comment I would make: do you really think that God needs any of our help to morally police the world? Really? Kids die all the time of horrific reasons. Take what is happening in the Gaza Strip. Kids are dying because Hamas will not evacuate Hospitals. Should Israel and the IDF stand down and then have their own people, again, killed, raped and murdered.

I am part jewish and the hard answer is no.


Abortion happens in all parts of the world. Does God ask you to stop at McCallen texas because of the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo in 1848? What about kids who are aborted just south of the border? Does god give you a "pass" because of what James Polk ultimately signed?

That is my view of the world. Is it the right one? Wrong one? To your point, God will decide - not a government.
Click to expand...
I’m NO fan of abortion as I’ve repeatedly stated, but it doesn’t stop me from also stating that it’s a personal choice until the fetus can survive outside the womb.
I don’t deny others the right to believe differently and if they believe that getting an abortion condemns one to hell, then surely they’ll be glad to arrive at the gates of Heaven to find a shorter line because those condemned souls have been sent straight to hell.
 
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So sheep, listen carefully: Do you think what he just said is crazy?

Because what he just said was that YOU are worth MORE that politicians because the politicians are elected to represent YOU.

If you disagree with that, you are supporting your politics AND you are acting against YOUR OWN BEST INTERESTS.

This is why you never put your politics at the center of your lives.
 
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grandhavendiddy said:
Not taken as such.

By the way - why this country's morals are changing so quickly? Immigration and demographics. It is absolutely the country's #1 issue, all other issues flow out of it. Just ask the Dutch who just elected a conservative candidate because he saw how their country was changing overnight.

You want to know who agrees with me most on this? Tucker Carlson and Steve Miller. Are they left wingers? Hardly.

Let's get to your question. A fair one.

Life and "rights" begin, in my view, and in the view of most, when the fetus can survive outside of the Womb. Call it 20-24 weeks. Ohio agreed to 23 weeks. Reasonable.

Even Pew research, a center-left organization, has said that 9 out of 10 abortions happen before the first trimester. Only 1% happen after 23 weeks. Of those after 23 weeks, I would imagine, that 70%+, perhaps 95% happens due to issues with the life of the mother. If there are a 1M abortions, in the U.S./year, that is 10,000 that fall in the third trimester, and of those 30%, or 3,000 would happen due to "convenience" or other. That could be as low as 500.

Now, take a look for an argument for mandatory Covid-19 vaccinations for children. Could it have saved 500 lives? Maybe? Are people "child-killers" for not vaccinating? Some on the left, made that argument.

In my view on life, I am not going to lose elections, and other, based on 10,000 to 300 individuals in a country of 330M. More kids die of gun deaths than abortions - even in black and brown communities.

Pedophelia, to use your example, between a minor who cannot give consent and an adult (although you get some very strange anomalies of law where two 17 year olds are dating in H.S., one turns 18, and now there is an "issue". That is both morally wrong and illegal.

Here is the final comment I would make: do you really think that God needs any of our help to morally police the world? Really? Kids die all the time of horrific reasons. Take what is happening in the Gaza Strip. Kids are dying because Hamas will not evacuate Hospitals. Should Israel and the IDF stand down and then have their own people, again, killed, raped and murdered.

I am part jewish and the hard answer is no.


Abortion happens in all parts of the world. Does God ask you to stop at McCallen texas because of the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo in 1848? What about kids who are aborted just south of the border? Does god give you a "pass" because of what James Polk ultimately signed?

That is my view of the world. Is it the right one? Wrong one? To your point, God will decide - not a government.
Click to expand...
Wrong. There were over 620,000 abortions last year alone. You are off by a factor of 250.
 
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jb1215 said:
Wrong. There were over 620,000 abortions last year alone. You are off by a factor of 250.
Click to expand...

You are correct sir. He Never addressed it again. That 620k was the low estimate. The high estimate was 850k I believe. It’s atrocious and disgusting.

We live in bizarro world. People that support murdering babies don’t want to see pictures of….murdered babies. (Neither do I frankly). But it’s important.

Why? Because it’s disgusting and it opens your eyes to reality. Yet they support it. You can’t make this stuff up. The irony is off the charts. Supporting something that you can’t stomach seeing.

But here we are, worried about Inanimate objects that were used to kill a couple thousand youth. Bad, but not even comparable to the numbers on abortion.
 
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RussellCasse said:
Agree. Happy Thanksgiving to you as well sir. I am just curious, as always…how many morals do we need to compromise for the sake of “winning”.

You explained to me the examples of winning. Lower taxes, border security, less spending etc.. and I don’t disagree with those.

My question was pretty straight forward. Where is the do not cross line, and what defines that? But the real question was…

Pedophilia IS the next line. Are lower taxes worth compromise on that? Which of the items you listed as “winning” is for sale for compromise on pedophilia?

No, I am not trying to be an ass (although it does come easily 😉). I am just preparing for that battle, because the chipping away and desensitization of that issue has begun already. How much are the children worth? Yes, I am serious.

A tax deduction? A wall? Smaller budget?

As for me? Children (and yes life begins at conception) are not for sale.

Click to expand...
While I agree with this personally....I hope our platform eases up on this because it would cost us the oval office
 
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Capt Ron 1 said:
While I agree with this personally....I hope our platform eases up on this because it would cost us the oval office
Click to expand...

I keep hearing this in spite of a couple things.

Trump, Milei, and others that have stood firm on supporting life and won. We win nothing by caving. Evangelicals will sit out if we cave. To me, the candidates that have lost have lost for reasons outside of abortion. When the media that lies everyday tells me it’s because of “abortion” I KNOW it to be otherwise. This is exactly how we got where we are. Sometimes it surely seems like we have learned nothing, even though the playbook has been revealed ad nauseum.

Second thing…

The left will use it regardless. And if we cave, they will say pubs will do anything to try and get elected then change once elected.

The best way to defeat this cancerous nonsense is head on. With good messaging, and Truth. As a Christian, morality doesn’t change. Truth doesn’t change. God wants to know us, and God wants us to be obedient and FIRM in his teachings. Regardless of the situation around us. Regardless of perceived consequences.

How do we know this is the way? Because even the head of BLM is waking up. His words? The left wants to break up the black nuclear family. Morality is beginning to win, getting people off their porch because the Truth is coming to light. It always does.

We win by getting back to putting God first. Then and only then, will things work in our favor.
 
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RussellCasse said:
The best way to defeat this cancerous nonsense is head on. With good messaging, and Truth. As a Christian, morality doesn’t change. Truth doesn’t change. God wants to know us, and God wants us to be obedient and FIRM in his teachings. Regardless of the situation around us. Regardless of perceived consequences.
Click to expand...
I agree with all of this.

Christians do not get to water down morality.

Christians should not be getting abortions.

However, Christian morality is not universal.

My pro life stance is based on my faith.

I couldn't name the religions that are OK with abortions but I'm sure their are some.

I would absolutely balk at the government forcing anything on me that goes against my faith.

I don't feel comfortable completely banning abortion for this reason, but we went from "safe, legal and rare" to "as long as its not completely out of the birth canal yet it's fine. " You give some people an inch and they will absolutely take a mile.

I'm not sure I'm saying this right but I don't think that it's right to hold non believers to our moral standards, only our legal ones.
 
GatorshimesDisappointingJunk said:
I agree with all of this.

Christians do not get to water down morality.

Christians should not be getting abortions.

However, Christian morality is not universal.

My pro life stance is based on my faith.

I couldn't name the religions that are OK with abortions but I'm sure their are some.

I would absolutely balk at the government forcing anything on me that goes against my faith.

I don't feel comfortable completely banning abortion for this reason, but we went from "safe, legal and rare" to "as long as its not completely out of the birth canal yet it's fine. " You give some people an inch and they will absolutely take a mile.

I'm not sure I'm saying this right but I don't think that it's right to hold non believers to our moral standards, only our legal ones.
Click to expand...


I get it. That said. Much of The foundation of our legal system is based on morals that directly reflects our Judeo-Christian foundation. Thou shall not murder etc.

And if we don’t have morality and laws based on our beliefs, then that line will continue to move. We have already seen that.

For example. Who and what gets to decide that sex changes for minors is wrong? Do we change that because society changes? What about Pedophilia? That’s why it is important for the legal foundation to be based on morals that aren’t always changing. Morals that we get from…where? If not God.

Again I ask, and no one seems to have a good answer. From your perspective, is there a line that can’t be crossed? Or do we just let society collectively change morality as they seem fit?

And if you do have a line, what are you going to base it on? Your opinion?
 
RussellCasse said:
I get it. That said. Much of The foundation of our legal system is based on morals that directly reflects our Judeo-Christian foundation. Thou shall not murder etc.

And if we don’t have morality and laws based on our beliefs, then that line will continue to move. We have already seen that.

For example. Who and what gets to decide that sex changes for minors is wrong? Do we change that because society changes? What about Pedophilia? That’s why it is important for the legal foundation to be based on morals that aren’t always changing. Morals that we get from…where? If not God.

Again I ask, and no one seems to have a good answer. From your perspective, is there a line that can’t be crossed? Or do we just let society collectively change morality as they seem fit?

And if you do have a line, what are you going to base it on? Your opinion?
Click to expand...
My line shouldn't apply to everyone.

And society does change morality.

We don't marry multiple wives anymore.

We don't let people that rape our daughters marry them anymore.

We don't marry our children off just because they've hit puberty.

We don't own people anymore.

These are all things that have been done in the past with scriptural justification.

I agree with you we shouldn't abandon our faith or values to win, that's not a real victory.

I think abortion as birth control is always wrong.

I believe life begins at conception.

But I believe these things because I am a Christian.

So basically I don't know and don't have an answer.
 
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goldmom said:
I’m NO fan of abortion as I’ve repeatedly stated, but it doesn’t stop me from also stating that it’s a personal choice until the fetus can survive outside the womb.
I don’t deny others the right to believe differently and if they believe that getting an abortion condemns one to hell, then surely they’ll be glad to arrive at the gates of Heaven to find a shorter line because those condemned souls have been sent straight to hell.
Click to expand...
My views are exactly as yours are. And the majority of Americans.
 
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