Are you telling me that bureaucrats don't have a say in curriculum? That it all comes down to the local school board?
We both know that is false.
Elon = Trump 2.0
- Thread starter GhostOfMatchesMalone
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Are you telling me that bureaucrats don't have a say in curriculum? That it all comes down to the local school board?
We both know that is false.
Hate crime legislation is equal protection under the law. As a matter of fact its was created because equal protection under the law WAS NOT occurring in America.
hate crime legislation came into being because local & state law enforcement / judicial systems WERE NOT applying the law & prosecution equally
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/hate-crimes-changed-history.html
The Civil Rights Era
During the 1960s in the American South, civil rights workers and social activists faced violence and threats from members of the Ku Klux Klan and other organizations committed to segregation. Local prosecutors and police were often unwilling to prosecute these crimes (and, in some cases, were allied with the perpetrators).For example, in 1964 in Mississippi, members of the Ku Klux Klan killed civil rights workers James Earl Chaney, Andrew Goodman, and Michael Schwerner. After local officials refused to prosecute the case, some of the assailants were tried in federal court for civil rights violations under the theory that they conspired to violate the victim's civil rights by murdering them due to their race. (18 U.S.C. § 242.) Several were sentenced to (fairly short) prison terms. For more information on federal civil rights prosecutions, see Federal Prosecutions for Civil Rights Violations.
Against the backdrop of widespread outrage over these and similar crimes, federal lawmakers passed:
- the Civil Rights Act of 1964
- the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and
- the first federal hate crimes legislation (18 U.S.C. § 245) in 1968.
State Legislation and Free Speech
States began enacting their own laws criminalizing hate crimes in the 1980s. Early defendants challenged the laws arguing they violated their rights to free speech. This challenge was put to the test in Wisconsin v. Mitchell, 508 U.S. 476 (1993), where the defendants, a group of black men, discussed a scene from the movie Mississippi Burning, which is based on the 1964 killing of Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner. Defendant Mitchell encouraged the group to commit violence against whites, and they attacked a white teenager. They were convicted under Wisconsin's hate crime law.The U.S. Supreme Court held that hate crime laws did not violate a defendant's right to free speech, so long as the laws prohibit conduct, not mere speech. The defendants' speech had been introduced as evidence of bias or bigotry, and the Court decided that the First Amendment does not prohibit the use of speech as evidence of intent.
Throughout the 1990s and 2000s, more states enacted hate crimes legislation, although state laws varied on which classes of individuals were offered protection under the laws. All state laws protect people attacked because of their race, ethnicity, or religion, but only some state laws protect people from criminal acts based on the victim's sexual orientation, gender, disability, gender identity, or gender expression.
Yes, I can honestly say the same...
Who's "marginalizing" your position?
And what does that mean anyway?
Do you feel I'm belittling you because I don't even see a good explanation of your viewpoint?
That means nothing unless you define "every way"
I think you should read my entire answer as I addressed this as the separation of church & state
We provided a solution for parents who disagree....private school
Again you need to read better...
I said that MANY groups have interests in the curriculum...
How did you get "it all comes down the the school board" out of that?
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It should be equal imo. Equal means the same. Different levels of punishment are by definition unequal.
To your point on sentencing being unequal based on race, that's wrong and immoral as well. That isn't ok.
However, hate crimes weren't designed to address sentencing variations based on race. Hate crimes were designed to punish racism in addition to the underlying crime.
Based on our conversation and the fact that you disagreed with my point above re: curriculum from state and fed bureaucrats. You disagreed and the only semi-logical explanation was that you seemed to believe it was almost entirely local school boards.
Careful now, we're having a reasonable conversation. I could easily snap back with a similar pithy reply...like when you misinterpreted my meaning earlier. But I didn't. You shouldn't either, please.
With all due respect that's about the most simpleton explanation I could imagine
What "levels of punishment" are different between classes of individuals in hate crime laws?
I made a point about sentencing?
if you would actually read the external sources I attach....
Hate crimes were found to be permissible because of the rules of evidence in establishing intent
Had nothing to do with sentencing
The U.S. Supreme Court held that hate crime laws did not violate a defendant's right to free speech, so long as the laws prohibit conduct, not mere speech. The defendants' speech had been introduced as evidence of bias or bigotry, and the Court decided that the First Amendment does not prohibit the use of speech as evidence of intent.
I've really tried here man. We disagree but I've made a good faith effort to explain my position.
It's not going to change your mind and you certainly aren't going to change mine.
And with all due respect, I would have assumed that you would realize that it's likely that I'm both more knowledgeable and experienced with regards to crime and punishment. I've been involved with countless trials not to mention the charging phase of criminal justice.
But here we are...
And yes, it was OVERLY simplistic. Re-read this thread...I tried several tactics to help you understand that equal protection under the law should be EQUAL.
So I went basic and simple....to no avail. But it's all good. We can agree to disagree.
So it should be real easy for you to explain what "levels of punishment" are different under hate crime legislation
Where specifically is it not equal?
I don't think you have any understanding of the equal protection clause...
I don't say that to be mean...I ay that being honest reaction to your posts
Don't worry about being basic or simplistic...post a good response don't worry about brevity
Worry more about being precise and complete...
My suspicion is you can't
A hate crime is a multiplier of the underlying crime Ray.
For example, murder = X punishment. A murder that is ruled a hate crime is X times the multiplier.
That is by definition unequal. You disagree. I'm fine with that. We're done here.
🤣
And this is why we're done. Also you don't listen.
You don't know how to talk to people.
How long has it taken to grasp getting through to the board's slow is completely beyond your reach, just as it is mine?
This is why I don't think you're a law enforcement officer of any type
In the case of Ahmaud Arbery, the three convicted of the crime of murder but also a single hate crime charge
The hate crime charge was of using force and threats of force to intimidate and interfere with Mr. Arbery’s right to use a public street because of his race.
That's a separate crime...not a multiplier
Luckily for me, no one GAS what you think.
Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, H.R. 3355, Pub.L. 103–322, Sec. 280003 108 Stat. 1796, 2096 provides for enhanced sentencing for hate crimes, defined as "a crime in which the defendant intentionally selects a victim, or in the case of a property crime, the property that is the object of the crime, because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, gender, disability, or sexual orientation of any person."
LibGuides: Hate Crimes: State Statutes and Contacts: Alabama - California
LibGuides: Hate Crimes: State Statutes and Contacts: Alabama - California
libguides.law.ucla.edu
This is true in many states, including at least Alabama and California. You don't know what you're talking about but you like to pretend that you do.
Violating the law and getting charged with a crime is always a serious situation, and the specific type of charges can have a huge impact on the potential penalties.
Ala.Code § 13A-5-13 – This statute enhances penalties when it can be shown beyond a reasonable doubt that a crime was motivated by the victim’s actual or perceived race, national origin, ethnicity, color, physical or mental disability, or religion.
Alabama Criminal Law: Hate Crimes - John M. Totten, P.C.
Violating the law and getting charged with a crime is always a serious situation, and the specific type of charges can have a huge impact on the potential penalties. One of the most significant factors that can make a crime more serious is the motivation behind the event. When a crime is...
johntottenlaw.com
Again, you don't know what you're talking about...and every now and then you should shut up and listen to people who do know.
A better man would take a moment to apologize....right here. I'm holding my breath.
BTW, Ahmaud Arbery was murdered in Georgia. In Georgia a hate crime is also a sentencing multiplier.
So why was it a separate count in his case? Because that was a federal charge and federally, it's considered a charge on its own (Interference with Rights).
You're welcome for the free education.
So why was it a separate count in his case? Because that was a federal charge and federally, it's considered a charge on its own (Interference with Rights).
You're welcome for the free education.
Providing more proof you're not a law enforcement officer?
You should know that there are federal & state hate crime laws that are very different
Why am I not surprised Barney Fife doesn't know the laws of this country?
https://scholarcommons.sc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4259&context=sclr
Unlike modem hate crime statutes, the purpose of federal statutes was
not to provide enhanced penalties for established crimes. 26
Rather, statutes like the Ku Klux Klan Act provided the only option of protecting victimized
former slaves against those who attempted to deny them their rights and
privileges. 27
In fact, these federal laws would not have been necessary had
local law enforcement properly addressed the issue and prosecuted the
offenders themselves. 28 In South Carolina, several Ku Klux Klan members
were arrested and tried under the Act in an attempt by the federal
government to show the measures it was willing to take in order to preserve
the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments to the Constitution.29
Need more proof you don't know what you're talking about?
Judge rejects a plea deal on federal hate crime charges in Arbery's murder
February 1, 20225:02 AM ET
Heard on Morning Edition
A federal judge is denying a plea deal in a hate crimes case concerning the killing of Ahmaud Arbery. A Georgia state court previously convicted three white men of murder. Two of them were ready to plead guilty to separate federal hate crime charges when a judge yesterday rejected the terms.
Need more proof? No underlying charge here to enhance...federally charged and found guilty of hate crimes
https://www.wxyz.com/news/man-admits-hate-crimes-for-black-lives-matter-threats
Man admits hate crimes for Black Lives Matter threats
DETROIT (AP) — A Saginaw man pleaded guilty to intimidating and attempting to intimidate people from speaking out and protesting in support of Black Lives Matter, prosecutors said Tuesday.
Kenneth Pilon, 61, entered the plea to two hate crime charges in federal district court, the Justice Department said. Pilon is due to be sentenced on March 23, 2023.
Exhale and breathe.
Because you missed on something as basic as different jurisdictions have different hate crime laws
And FEDERAL hate crime charges do not require an underlying crime to have been committed and proven in court to be an enhancement
They can exist as criminal charges in and of themselves...been that way since the civil war
Follow your own advice and apologize to me...right here.
OK...Now that I'm done slapping Barney Fife around... 🤣
Back on topic...
Where is all of the conservative outrage about censoring the media now?
Seems like Musk has no problem de-platforming "certain" media
https://finance.yahoo.com/twitter-suspends-journalists-covering-elon-010856604.html
Twitter suspends journalists who have been covering Elon Musk and the company
Jason Abbruzzese and Kevin Collier and Phil Helsel and Bianca Britton
Fri, December 16, 2022 at 12:15 AM EST·6 min read
Twitter on Thursday evening suddenly suspended several high-profile journalists who cover the platform and Elon Musk, one of the richest people in the world, who acquired the company just a few months ago.
Hours after the suspensions took hold, Musk faced off with one of the journalists he suspended in a Twitter Space audio discussion before an audience of more than 30,000 listeners. The suspended journalist, along with several others, found a backdoor way onto the platform through the website's audio function.
Back on topic...
Where is all of the conservative outrage about censoring the media now?
Seems like Musk has no problem de-platforming "certain" media
https://finance.yahoo.com/twitter-suspends-journalists-covering-elon-010856604.html
Twitter suspends journalists who have been covering Elon Musk and the company
Jason Abbruzzese and Kevin Collier and Phil Helsel and Bianca Britton
Fri, December 16, 2022 at 12:15 AM EST·6 min read
Twitter on Thursday evening suddenly suspended several high-profile journalists who cover the platform and Elon Musk, one of the richest people in the world, who acquired the company just a few months ago.
Hours after the suspensions took hold, Musk faced off with one of the journalists he suspended in a Twitter Space audio discussion before an audience of more than 30,000 listeners. The suspended journalist, along with several others, found a backdoor way onto the platform through the website's audio function.
The only reason that you now know is because I educated you, goofball.
You were the guy telling me that a hate crime wasn't a sentencing enhancer...remember? That turned out to be false, didn't it?
I honestly feel bad for you at this point.
LMAO...that is exactly what I showed you genius.
Imagine if I wasn't in LE. How stupid would you feel that I still knew this much more than you on the subject? 😂
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Barney Fife doesn't realize you don't need an underlying crime to charge a hate crime
Hence, its NOT only a enhancer...Its also a crime all by itself in federal courts
Barney does not know the law 🤣
He stated exactly that in post 100. My dog is smarter than you and he's been dead for 4 years.
At this point one can only assume that he is lying/trolling. I can live with that.
You mean what I posted in post #97...which came BEFORE his post right?
You don't seem to be as bright as me or your dead dog 🤣
OK lets try this AGAIN....Back on topic
https://www.yahoo.com/news/twitter-suspends-journalists-alleges-doxxing-112206351.html
Twitter suspends journalists, alleges 'doxxing'
Fri, December 16, 2022 at 6:22 AM EST
https://www.yahoo.com/news/twitter-suspends-journalists-alleges-doxxing-112206351.html
Twitter suspends journalists, alleges 'doxxing'
Fri, December 16, 2022 at 6:22 AM EST
Let's get this thread back on topic, shall we?
Edit to add that I realize he has a blue check mark, but the who the hell is Jason Kint?
Edit to add that I realize he has a blue check mark, but the who the hell is Jason Kint?
They broke the site's TOS. They got banned for it.
You should feel lucky Elon doesn't run this site, you'd be long gone.
Yep. Back in 2018-2022 when former Twitter management was suspending anyone for having a political opinion they didn't like, the libs told us it was their company, they can run it any way they want. Don't like it? Go to Parler or Truth Social.
Now that NEW management is suspending users for BREAKING THE RULES, the same libs want Congressional investigations LMAO!
This episode explains SO much about the fascist lefties. They think they can break the rules with zero accountability, then when someone enforces the rules against THEM, they want to destroy that person. Even cheer on when his family is attacked by crazed lefties.
These people are evil.
Funny thing is, they tried leaving for Mastodon as soon as Elon bought Twitter. They quickly came back cause the people that 'own' the servers on Mastodon didn't want them there either and suspended them LOL
Maybe they can create a new social media site just for 'journalists'. I'm sure that would be a big hit.
Oh and I think Musk banned Mastodon as well. 😂 😂
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