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Catholicism vs. Protestantism.

BSC911

Bull Gator
Apr 18, 2018
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Open debate. Please keep it respectful.

While we share many core values, where do Protestants get it wrong?

1. wrong Bible. Luther doesnt get to eliminate 1500 years of sacred scripture.

2. They devalue the Eucharist.

3. Mary is revered, not worshiped, for Catholics. Prots, in reaction, disrespect her.

4. Purgatory is biblical.

5. Baptism occurs to eliminate original sin. No need to wait until you are “saved.”

6. Sola scriptura and sola fide are nonsense.

7. Apostolic succession.

8. Catholicism is more conservative, and a better, more unchangeable barrier against liberalism.

Original thoughts only. No links accepted.
 
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Let's start with the Eucharist.
 
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Open debate. Please keep it respectful.

While we share many core values, where do Protestants get it wrong?

1. wrong Bible. Luther doesnt get to eliminate 1500 years of sacred scripture.

2. They devalue the Eucharist.

3. Mary is revered, not worshiped, for Catholics. Prots, in reaction, disrespect her.

4. Purgatory is biblical.

5. Baptism occurs to eliminate original sin. No need to wait until you are “saved.”

6. Sola scriptura and sola fide are nonsense.

7. Apostolic succession.

8. Catholicism is more conservative, and a better, more unchangeable barrier against liberalism.

Original thoughts only. No links accepted.

Can we just have crispy fries? Is that too much to ask?
 
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While we share many core values, where do Protestants get it wrong?

The Catholics like the Pharisees began to interject the teaching of man into the Word of God. On the Sabbath a Jew may NOT use an elevator because the electrical spark that is ignited when pressing the elevator button is WORK. Taking the stairs is not work?

The land must rest every seven years yet Jews rent it out to Arabs seeing this as a way to circumvent the law as they are not the one working it that year. I am sure God is just as impressed as He was when He sent them into exile in Babylon.



1. wrong Bible. Luther doesnt get to eliminate 1500 years of sacred scripture.

What did he eliminate?

2. They devalue the Eucharist.

Do we have to have a supernatural communion? Was it supernatural before Christ. What happened to the AfiKomen before Christ? When Christ did it with His disciples did it become flesh and blood? What exactly is the point if such mysticism? Does it save or is it His actual sacrifice and grace?

3. Mary is revered, not worshiped, for Catholics. Prots, in reaction, disrespect her.

Then why is she referred to as co-redemtrix. Nope she is though highly of by protestants but is no better than any of our own mothers. She was a sinner, imperfect and in need of Jesus' redemptive sacrifice. Praying to her is a waste of time because there is only one way to the Father and salvation and that is Christ Jesus.

4. Purgatory is biblical.

Where?

5. Baptism occurs to eliminate original sin. No need to wait until you are “saved.”

Sorry COC and Catholics but baptism is a ceremonial act. One is saved by grace at the point of accepting Christ. Just as the thief did on the cross. You are saved by Christ's grace alone not by and act.

6. Sola scriptura and sola fide are nonsense.

Why?

7. Apostolic succession.

Nah all male believers are priests in the order of Melchizedek and Jesus is our High Priest.

8. Catholicism is more conservative, and a better, more unchangeable barrier against liberalism.

Maybe when JPII was pope but not under this anti-pope. I liked JPII.

Original thoughts only. No links accepted.
 
Open debate. Please keep it respectful.

While we share many core values, where do Protestants get it wrong?

1. wrong Bible. Luther doesnt get to eliminate 1500 years of sacred scripture.

2. They devalue the Eucharist.

3. Mary is revered, not worshiped, for Catholics. Prots, in reaction, disrespect her.

4. Purgatory is biblical.

5. Baptism occurs to eliminate original sin. No need to wait until you are “saved.”

6. Sola scriptura and sola fide are nonsense.

7. Apostolic succession.

8. Catholicism is more conservative, and a better, more unchangeable barrier against liberalism.

Original thoughts only. No links accepted.

Which site did you cut and paste this from, without attribution?
 
While we share many core values, where do Protestants get it wrong?

The Catholics like the Pharisees began to interject the teaching of man into the Word of God. On the Sabbath a Jew may NOT use an elevator because the electrical spark that is ignited when pressing the elevator button is WORK. Taking the stairs is not work?

The land must rest every seven years yet Jews rent it out to Arabs seeing this as a way to circumvent the law as they are not the one working it that year. I am sure God is just as impressed as He was when He sent them into exile in Babylon.



1. wrong Bible. Luther doesnt get to eliminate 1500 years of sacred scripture.

What did he eliminate?

2. They devalue the Eucharist.

Do we have to have a supernatural communion? Was it supernatural before Christ. What happened to the AfiKomen before Christ? When Christ did it with His disciples did it become flesh and blood? What exactly is the point if such mysticism? Does it save or is it His actual sacrifice and grace?

3. Mary is revered, not worshiped, for Catholics. Prots, in reaction, disrespect her.

Then why is she referred to as co-redemtrix. Nope she is though highly of by protestants but is no better than any of our own mothers. She was a sinner, imperfect and in need of Jesus' redemptive sacrifice. Praying to her is a waste of time because there is only one way to the Father and salvation and that is Christ Jesus.

4. Purgatory is biblical.

Where?

5. Baptism occurs to eliminate original sin. No need to wait until you are “saved.”

Sorry COC and Catholics but baptism is a ceremonial act. One is saved by grace at the point of accepting Christ. Just as the thief did on the cross. You are saved by Christ's grace alone not by and act.

6. Sola scriptura and sola fide are nonsense.

Why?

7. Apostolic succession.

Nah all male believers are priests in the order of Melchizedek and Jesus is our High Priest.

8. Catholicism is more conservative, and a better, more unchangeable barrier against liberalism.

Maybe when JPII was pope but not under this anti-pope. I liked JPII.

Original thoughts only. No links accepted.
About to sit down for dinner. Will respond after.
 
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While we share many core values, where do Protestants get it wrong?

The Catholics like the Pharisees began to interject the teaching of man into the Word of God. On the Sabbath a Jew may NOT use an elevator because the electrical spark that is ignited when pressing the elevator button is WORK. Taking the stairs is not work?

The land must rest every seven years yet Jews rent it out to Arabs seeing this as a way to circumvent the law as they are not the one working it that year. I am sure God is just as impressed as He was when He sent them into exile in Babylon.



1. wrong Bible. Luther doesnt get to eliminate 1500 years of sacred scripture.

What did he eliminate?

2. They devalue the Eucharist.

Do we have to have a supernatural communion? Was it supernatural before Christ. What happened to the AfiKomen before Christ? When Christ did it with His disciples did it become flesh and blood? What exactly is the point if such mysticism? Does it save or is it His actual sacrifice and grace?

3. Mary is revered, not worshiped, for Catholics. Prots, in reaction, disrespect her.

Then why is she referred to as co-redemtrix. Nope she is though highly of by protestants but is no better than any of our own mothers. She was a sinner, imperfect and in need of Jesus' redemptive sacrifice. Praying to her is a waste of time because there is only one way to the Father and salvation and that is Christ Jesus.

4. Purgatory is biblical.

Where?

5. Baptism occurs to eliminate original sin. No need to wait until you are “saved.”

Sorry COC and Catholics but baptism is a ceremonial act. One is saved by grace at the point of accepting Christ. Just as the thief did on the cross. You are saved by Christ's grace alone not by and act.

6. Sola scriptura and sola fide are nonsense.

Why?

7. Apostolic succession.

Nah all male believers are priests in the order of Melchizedek and Jesus is our High Priest.

8. Catholicism is more conservative, and a better, more unchangeable barrier against liberalism.

Maybe when JPII was pope but not under this anti-pope. I liked JPII.

Original thoughts only. No links accepted.
1. The Dueterocanical (sp) books, including Maccabees

2. John Chapter 6

3. We don’t pray TO her. We we ask for her prayers. She is the New Arc of the Covenent. She was Assumed without sin because bore the Word of God.

4. Maccabees

6. Because faith without works is dead (James). See also the Ten Commandments, including the 2 most important ones, to quote Jesus. Jesus rarely spoke of faith. That’s more of a Pauline concept.

5. Baptism is the Ordinary means of salvific grace as established by Christ. Go ye Baptisizing all Nations in the name of the Father, son and the Holy Spirit (Acts). Salvation is impossible without the removal of Original Sin.

7. They were not granted the authority by Jesus as was Peter. The priesthood of all Believers Is different than the Ministerial Priesthood. That requires education. Only a certain few are authorized to bestow the Eucharist.

8. Your opinion. All Popes are infallible.
 
Open debate. Please keep it respectful.

While we share many core values, where do Protestants get it wrong?

1. wrong Bible. Luther doesnt get to eliminate 1500 years of sacred scripture.

2. They devalue the Eucharist.

3. Mary is revered, not worshiped, for Catholics. Prots, in reaction, disrespect her.

4. Purgatory is biblical.

5. Baptism occurs to eliminate original sin. No need to wait until you are “saved.”

6. Sola scriptura and sola fide are nonsense.

7. Apostolic succession.

8. Catholicism is more conservative, and a better, more unchangeable barrier against liberalism.

Original thoughts only. No links accepted.
There is no original sin. Hate to break it to ya pal. The serpent actually cared for humanity hence why he gave them the knowledge of good vs evil. Only after they knew good vs evil did they clothe themselves. The serpent cared more for humanity than their “creator”. I am not a satanist. I don’t think the serpent in the garden was the devil. All gnostic Christians would agree with me on that. The Gnostics had it right but their emphasis on the spiritual world vs the physical world was their undoing. The Catholics thus saw them as a threat and had them wiped out. Can’t have people concerned with the spiritual world when you’re ruling over them in the physical one.

I respect everyone’s religious beliefs. These just happen to be my own.
 
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Still waiting, Doc Holliday
Alrighty then... Give me a chance. I worked out of town today at my satellite clinic, came home and went straight to Bubba's for supper. Just got home. I WILL HAVE a LONG reply in the morning. I expect you to read it.
 
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1. The Dueterocanical (sp) books, including Maccabees

Ok we will have to disagree.

2. John Chapter 6

Figurative not literal language as Christ was alive at the last supper.

3. We don’t pray TO her. We we ask for her prayers. She is the New Arc of the Covenent. She was Assumed without sin because bore the Word of God.

Assumed? No need for the seed of the woman to be without sin.

4. Maccabees

OK we will have to agree to disagree

6. Because faith without works is dead (James). See also the Ten Commandments, including the 2 most important ones, to quote Jesus. Jesus rarely spoke of faith. That’s more of a Pauline concept.

Was Paul not chosen by Christ?

5. Baptism is the Ordinary means of salvific grace as established by Christ. Go ye Baptisizing all Nations in the name of the Father, son and the Holy Spirit (Acts). Salvation is impossible without the removal of Original Sin.

Baptism preceded Christ and He was without sin and did partake in it as a ceremonial act. Christ's sacrifice is sufficient for all sin or do you deny his omnipotent divinity.

7. They were not granted the authority by Jesus as was Peter. The priesthood of all Believers Is different than the Ministerial Priesthood. That requires education. Only a certain few are authorized to bestow the Eucharist.

Really do you not know that Jesus and the disciples were at the Grotto of Pan when he made the declaration. The rock is Mt Hermon and the Gates of Hell are what the Grotto of Pan was called. Peter was made head of the disciples. It was also a play on words. I am not sure where yourbidea of succession comes from.

He asked who do you say I am. Right there at the Temple of Satan the response was the Christ Son of God. Right there on Mt Hermon He declared victory over the Temple of Satan and the Gates of Hell. He was shoving it in Satans face and yet Lucifer took the bait.


8. Your opinion. All Popes are infallible.

Your opinion. No man is infallible but Christ Jesus. And the is no Vicar. I will give you this, as my father says, there would be no Christianity without the Catholic Church and for that we give thanks but obedience is to Christ alone.
 
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There is no original sin. Hate to break it to ya pal. The serpent actually cared for humanity hence why he gave them the knowledge of good vs evil. Only after they knew good vs evil did they clothe themselves. The serpent cared more for humanity than their “creator”. I am not a satanist. I don’t think the serpent in the garden was the devil. All gnostic Christians would agree with me on that. The Gnostics had it right but their emphasis on the spiritual world vs the physical world was their undoing. The Catholics thus saw them as a threat and had them wiped out. Can’t have people concerned with the spiritual world when you’re ruling over them in the physical one.

I respect everyone’s religious beliefs. These just happen to be my own.
I dont agree with you. But I am tired and not in the mood to explain. I just look at this world and shake my head. Not that I am 100% correct but I think people make things harder than they have to be. The serpent in the garden was the devil. Twins came out of Eve. One of them was from the serpent.
 
I dont agree with you. But I am tired and not in the mood to explain. I just look at this world and shake my head. Not that I am 100% correct but I think people make things harder than they have to be. The serpent in the garden was the devil. Twins came out of Eve. One of them was from the serpent.
So you’re saying that Abel was Adam’s son and Cain was the devils son? This was known as the serpent seed I believe. The Catholics used it for part of their motivation for the inquisition. You know when they brutally tortured and murdered millions of innocent Europeans.
But mass genocide at that point was nothing new to the Catholics. Like I said see what happened to the Gnostics and later the Cathars.

Speaking of the serpent. Do yourself a favor and take a good hard long look at the Pope’s audience hall in Vatican City. If you can’t see that building was designed to clearly model a snake then you’re blind amigo.
 
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1. In addition to 1 & 2 Maccabees, Catholic Bible includes Tobit, Wisdom, Sirach, Judith, & Baruch.

2. In addition to John 6, see also Matthew 26:26-30 and Luke 22:14-20 this relates to the Last Supper where Catholics believe Jesus instituted the Sacrament of the Eucharist for the church. See also Jesus appearance on the road to Emmaus; Luke 24: 13-35

Authentic Catholic belief is that the bread and wine become Christ’s body and blood when consecrated by the priest during Mass. Sadly many Catholics seem to have lost the faith in the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

3. Catholic doctrine holds that Mary was conceived without sin. This was declared an infallible teaching of the Church by Pope Pius IX in 1870; a doctrine we are challenged to accept on faith in the absence of definitive scripture documentation.

4. As BSC states, the primary basis for the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory may be found in Maccabees, although there are some oblique references in the book of Daniel.

5. Catholics do not regard Baptism as a mere ceremonial act. It’s a source of sanctifying grace to those who are baptized.

6. The Catholic Church has always held scripture and sacred tradition in equally high esteem.

7. Catholics believe the papacy was instituted by Christ when he commissioned Peter to “feed my sheep” and gave him the authority to declare what is and is not binding on the Church on Earth. The church tradition is that this authority was transferred to Peters successors under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

8. I revere JPII; it’s no wonder he was canonized a saint so quickly after his death. I’m not a huge fan of Pope Francis but he has been discerned to lead the church at the current time. I would not be upset if he would go the Pope Benedict XVI route and retire.
Well said.
 
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Does the Pope hide out child molesters? Yes, yes he does. Don't believe me just check out the priest he hid out from Knoxville at the Vatican who was convicted of child molestation.
The Pope has clearly, and unequivocally condemned all abuses of his ministers.
 
1. The Dueterocanical (sp) books, including Maccabees

Ok we will have to disagree.

2. John Chapter 6

Figurative not literal language as Christ was alive at the last supper.

3. We don’t pray TO her. We we ask for her prayers. She is the New Arc of the Covenent. She was Assumed without sin because bore the Word of God.

Assumed? No need for the seed of the woman to be without sin.

4. Maccabees

OK we will have to agree to disagree

6. Because faith without works is dead (James). See also the Ten Commandments, including the 2 most important ones, to quote Jesus. Jesus rarely spoke of faith. That’s more of a Pauline concept.

Was Paul not chosen by Christ?

5. Baptism is the Ordinary means of salvific grace as established by Christ. Go ye Baptisizing all Nations in the name of the Father, son and the Holy Spirit (Acts). Salvation is impossible without the removal of Original Sin.

Baptism preceded Christ and He was without sin and did partake in it as a ceremonial act. Christ's sacrifice is sufficient for all sin or do you deny his omnipotent divinity.

7. They were not granted the authority by Jesus as was Peter. The priesthood of all Believers Is different than the Ministerial Priesthood. That requires education. Only a certain few are authorized to bestow the Eucharist.

Really do you not know that Jesus and the disciples were at the Grotto of Pan when he made the declaration. The rock is Mt Hermon and the Gates of Hell are what the Grotto of Pan was called. Peter was made head of the disciples. It was also a play on words. I am not sure where yourbidea of succession comes from.

He asked who do you say I am. Right there at the Temple of Satan the response was the Christ Son of God. Right there on Mt Hermon He declared victory over the Temple of Satan and the Gates of Hell. He was shoving it in Satans face and yet Lucifer took the bait.


8. Your opinion. All Popes are infallible.

Your opinion. No man is infallible but Christ Jesus. And the is no Vicar. I will give you this, as my father says, there would be no Christianity without the Catholic Church and for that we give thanks but obedience is to Christ alone.
First of all, I respect your opinion. In general, I would say God is not a minimalist and therefore necessity is not a foundation of Gods plan.
 
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There is no original sin. Hate to break it to ya pal. The serpent actually cared for humanity hence why he gave them the knowledge of good vs evil. Only after they knew good vs evil did they clothe themselves. The serpent cared more for humanity than their “creator”....
Wowwwwwwwzers. Sorry Lucifer was and is only out for himself. He is a created being. The Creator kicked him out when he rebelled. Yet he is not yet in Hell. Many of the Angels that fell are bound. Why? You know the thing the Lord is most "Jealous" about is His role as Creator.

This was written before the Catholic church. Why will the saints judge the angles?
1 Corinthians 6:3
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

While it is not considered "Biblical" the Book of Enoch which is quoted in scripture explains much of what happened. Respectfully, I would suggest you reconsider your stance on these matters.
 
I've been writing my journey away from the Catholic Church. Here is my reply to the Eucharist. It's long - this is why I wanted to go email with you but for some reason you decided to go harry carry with a thread.

A Deeper Explanation on Communion and the Eucharist

John 3:3
, In replying to Nicodemus, Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” Verse 7, “…you must be born again.” Verse 15, “that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.” Verse 16, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” Verse 36, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”

Jesus has been describing to Nicodemus about being born again in a spiritual sense and attaining life everlasting by believing in Him. In John 4:32-34 Jesus begins to answer some questions raised by His disciples by describing a particular food for Him to eat and comparing eating this food to doing the will of God who sent Him and to also finishing God’s work. He stated to His disciples, “I have food to eat that you know nothing about.” When they continued to think literally of eating food, he expounded upon his meaning by saying, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent me and to finish His work.” Then in John 5:21, Jesus says, “For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.” Verse 24, “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.” The work of Jesus – the food He is about to eat – becomes our food if we believe in Him and in what is about to take place. Verse 25, “I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. Verse 40, “… yet you refuse to come to me to have life.” Can you imagine the mixed-up and confused minds of the disciples and others who was listening to Jesus speak? It wasn’t like they were on the yellow brick road of wisdom and knowledge and understanding. They must have all had that perplexed look of confusion plastered upon their faces.

The beginning of chapter 6 of John’s Gospel describes the feeding of the five thousand. Jesus states in Verse 27, “Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you.” Verse 28, They asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Verse 29, Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Because of their misunderstanding, confusion and hardening of hearts, they began questioning Jesus at this point. They’re not questioning to gain insight and belief; they’re questioning instead to counter His directed message. They begin asking how it is their forefathers ate manna in the desert, giving them bread from heaven. Verse 32, Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, it is not Moses who had given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

Now their prideful hearts are all excited and want this bread that Jesus talks about. In their minds they think of physical bread, the kind that Moses ate, only better. This bread is life-giving? Heck yeah, give me some of that bread! Simple enough. But Jesus doesn’t whip out bread like he did the five-thousand, He instead declares this in Verse 35: “I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.” Verse 40, “For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

What happens next is a disdain toward His teaching. The Jews began to grumble. They sense they’ve been misled. They apparently are now looking at Jesus as a madman, not one who was going to perform a miraculous sign by giving them “life-giving” physical bread to eat. Jesus doesn’t escape the complaining but instead reiterated His testimony by saying in Verses 48-51, “he who believes has everlasting life. I am the bread of life. Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

Oh man, can you imagine the looks on these people’s faces?! Really? Eat His flesh? Ah, but this is where the Catholic might say, “See there? This is the Eucharist that Jesus speaks of.” But not so fast. I believe it is here that Jesus isn’t speaking of the Eucharist but of an event that hasn’t yet occurred but must occur: His passion – His death on the Cross so those who believe can have eternal life.

Verse 52, “Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” They are still thinking worldly and have the Moses moment in their minds. Jesus doubles-down in His reply to their questioning by stating in Verses 53-58, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefather ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.”

Goodness. What a concept for those listening to try and accept. He isn’t suggesting they eat the Eucharist and live. He is the Word becoming flesh. The Word is truth. He Himself is life-giving. If they would believe in Him, He would be life-sustaining. Since God fed those who were following Moses and sustained them by this food from heaven, God now has invited the world to accept Him as life-sustaining food for ever. If this whole passage was meant to prove that life was distributed by Jesus solely in the Eucharist, how many in the world have failed to see this and died without the Catholic Eucharistic Jesus? It’s simply illogical that Jesus would be only talking about the Eucharist here. Of course, he does provide us with the communion meal later and uses that as a staple of belief, but it doesn’t mean it is the all-encompassing point of His death on the cross.

His true flesh and blood that was shed can now be represented in earthly forms of bread and wine. The significance of the Last Supper is declared by Jesus by stating, this is My body and this is My blood. You must accept Me in full. I shed my body and my blood for you. You must accept this literal, life-giving moment in time – My life for yours – and declare it with me not only at the communion table but at all times to truly and faithfully believe in me and to accept this gift I have given you freely.

So, my belief in Jesus is not figurative, it’s literal. He is literally giving me His life-giving flesh to eat daily because He is life-sustaining. He feeds me when I read the word daily, when I pray and when I simply live out my life aware of His continual presence at work in me and around me. He truly is life-giving. Without Him I am dead. With Him I am alive.

With this in mind, it’s a perspective of choice. To sustain the Catholic view of the Eucharist as being the all-in-all and the focal point of Christian behavior under the disciplined rules handed down by the Catholic Church. Or to recognize Jesus Himself as life-giving, solely focusing upon Him and dedicating your life to Him outside of a religious tradition that carries a shackling of man-made rules in order to receive Holy Communion.

Holy Communion is to be received when one accepts and believes in the passion of the Cross that Jesus died on. It’s an acceptance and heartfelt drive and desire to serve the one and only Savior of your soul instead of making sure things in your life lead to a worthiness to accept and receive Holy Communion by following the rules of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church becomes to focal point to follow.

He alone is our life-sustaining bread. Instead of manna, Jesus is our food of life. We eat when we believe. We eat when we pray. We eat when we live in communion with Him. We eat and we live. As long as we stay in communion with Him, He will sustain us with life. When we stop praying, when we stop seeking Him to be our guide in life, when we start trying to do things on our own, we move into darkness. Life no longer sustains us through Jesus Christ. He moves in us when we open our hearts to receive His life giving food – His passion, death and resurrection.
 
Wowwwwwwwzers. Sorry Lucifer was and is only out for himself. He is a created being. The Creator kicked him out when he rebelled. Yet he is not yet in Hell. Many of the Angels that fell are bound. Why? You know the thing the Lord is most "Jealous" about is His role as Creator.

This was written before the Catholic church. Why will the saints judge the angles?
1 Corinthians 6:3
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

While it is not considered "Biblical" the Book of Enoch which is quoted in scripture explains much of what happened. Respectfully, I would suggest you reconsider your stance on these matters.

As long as we’re on the subject what about the Dead Sea scrolls? What about the Sumerian tablets? The Sumerians tablets were written thousands of years before the Bible and told their own eerily similar depictions of creation in a garden and later a flood and so on. The sooner humanity realizes “homo sapiens” have been forming societies and civilizations for far far long than historians credit them with on this planet the better.

Read a proper translation of the emerald tablets of Thoth from 36,000 BC. You’ll see many of Christ’s same messages in those tablets that are later reflected in the Bible. The story of humanity and of civilization dates back far far far further than the Bible has ever given credit amigo. So to sit here and debate the sects of Christianity is moot.

Also the Giza plateau was constructed tens of thousands of years before the time Bible credits them. We are but one iteration of humanity and our time has been since the flood. However objectively looking at the evidence would show you there have been many more before us.

What is most important is the concept of good vs evil and light vs dark. There will always be those who do evil and walk in the dark. But those who wish to live in line with the divine universal principles choose to do good and walk in the light.
 
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As long as we’re on the subject what about the Dead Sea scrolls? What about the Sumerian tablets? The Sumerians tablets were written thousands of years before the Bible and told their own eerily similar depictions of creation in a garden and later a flood and so on. The sooner humanity realizes “homo sapiens” have been forming societies and civilizations for far far long than historians credit them with on this planet the better.

Read a proper translation of the emerald tablets of Thoth from 36,000 BC. You’ll see many of Christ’s same messages in those tablets that are later reflected in the Bible. The story of humanity and of civilization dates back far far far further than the Bible has ever given credit amigo. So to sit here and debate the sects of Christianity is moot.

Also the Giza plateau was constructed tens of thousands of years before the time Bible credits them. We are but one iteration of humanity and our time has been since the flood. However objectively looking at the evidence would show you there have been many more before us.

What is most important is the concept of good vs evil and light vs dark. There will always be those who do evil and walk in the dark. But those who wish to live in line with the divine universal principles choose to do good and walk in the light.
Do you believe in different earth ages?
 
As long as we’re on the subject what about the Dead Sea scrolls? What about the Sumerian tablets? The Sumerians tablets were written thousands of years before the Bible and told their own eerily similar depictions of creation in a garden and later a flood and so on. The sooner humanity realizes “homo sapiens” have been forming societies and civilizations for far far long than historians credit them with on this planet the better.

Read a proper translation of the emerald tablets of Thoth from 36,000 BC. You’ll see many of Christ’s same messages in those tablets that are later reflected in the Bible. The story of humanity and of civilization dates back far far far further than the Bible has ever given credit amigo. So to sit here and debate the sects of Christianity is moot.

Also the Giza plateau was constructed tens of thousands of years before the time Bible credits them. We are but one iteration of humanity and our time has been since the flood. However objectively looking at the evidence would show you there have been many more before us.

What is most important is the concept of good vs evil and light vs dark. There will always be those who do evil and walk in the dark. But those who wish to live in line with the divine universal principles choose to do good and walk in the light.
The knowledge of Christ to some extend was known even at the time of the Garden. Satan raised up many a false Christ before the original came into being. We can not know everything nor are we meant to. It is believed by some that Enoch built the The Great Pyramid and that it existed before the flood.

But dont get lost in the weeds. The heart of man is evil and we need a Savior. The angels that fell get no reprieve.
 
I guess you could call it that. I believe there was high civilization before the flood. I think science definitely proves that a series of catastrophes befell our planet about 12,500 years ago. I can’t definitively say something like Atlantis or Lemuria existed but I do think civilization was advanced perhaps even in some ways beyond what we are today.
I think the great pyramids served a FAR greater purpose than as the tombs for pharaohs lie that is claimed today.
The idea that a Bronze Age civilization like the Egyptians could’ve built the pyramids is laughable at best. Bronze is an extremely soft metal. And yet they managed to quarry millions of tons of quartz and granite with it?! That is physically impossible. Its like saying you cut down a forest of red woods with a plastic knife.
 
The knowledge of Christ to some extend was known even at the time of the Garden. Satan raised up many a false Christ before the original came into being. We can not know everything nor are we meant to. It is believed by some that Enoch built the The Great Pyramid and that it existed before the flood.

But dont get lost in the weeds. The heart of man is evil and we need a Savior. The angels that fell get no reprieve.
I respect your beliefs. But I believe man (humanity) is inherently good and it is the physical world and it’s temptations (money, power, excess) that can turn him evil.
 
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I went through Catholic School and have zero interest in participating in this discussion.
I just know that God came to me one night in a dream and told me since I survived Sister Brendan and Sister Thomas Joseph I was going to heaven so don't worry about earthly religion.

Oh, and Popes are only infallible when speaking of morals and Catholic dogma. So Francis is a communist just being a communist when he's telling us about social justice, etc.
 
As long as we’re on the subject what about the Dead Sea scrolls? What about the Sumerian tablets? The Sumerians tablets were written thousands of years before the Bible and told their own eerily similar depictions of creation in a garden and later a flood and so on. The sooner humanity realizes “homo sapiens” have been forming societies and civilizations for far far long than historians credit them with on this planet the better.

Read a proper translation of the emerald tablets of Thoth from 36,000 BC. You’ll see many of Christ’s same messages in those tablets that are later reflected in the Bible. The story of humanity and of civilization dates back far far far further than the Bible has ever given credit amigo. So to sit here and debate the sects of Christianity is moot.

Also the Giza plateau was constructed tens of thousands of years before the time Bible credits them. We are but one iteration of humanity and our time has been since the flood. However objectively looking at the evidence would show you there have been many more before us.

What is most important is the concept of good vs evil and light vs dark. There will always be those who do evil and walk in the dark. But those who wish to live in line with the divine universal principles choose to do good and walk in the light.
I understand your driving concept here. May the whole Christian concept be a fabrication and a copy of previous historical eras? All I can say is Christ was an historical reality. He existed. He lived. He died. He rose again. He was witnessed by thousands to be resurrected. That is irrefutable historical fact.

I for one have had many days of doubt. When it occurs I have to ask myself where we came from, how was the universe formed, how is it that we are on a planet at the exact distance from the sun to sustain life, where and how did life occur in the first place, how did it all come about beyond evolution. And not only humans, but all these different species of animal life, microscopic organisms, plants of all kinds. How did it come about that we are sustained by the air we breathe and the water and food we drink. I mean, the human body itself is so remarkable only God could have created it. Those concepts take me back and I have to say to God, "I do believe. Help my unbelief."
 
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I went through Catholic School and have zero interest in participating in this discussion.
I just know that God came to me one night in a dream and told me since I survived Sister Brendan and Sister Thomas Joseph I was going to heaven so don't worry about earthly religion.

Oh, and Popes are only infallible when speaking of morals and Catholic dogma. So Francis is a communist just being a communist when he's telling us about social justice, etc.
You are correct about Francis. My sister is still a devout Catholic and she says the same thing about Francis.
 
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I respect your beliefs. But I believe man (humanity) is inherently good and it is the physical world and it’s temptations (money, power, excess) that can turn him evil.
Actually, man is inherently evil. Ever notice how one migrates toward the bad things in life as opposed to the good things in life? We do good, yes, but think back as a child. It was fun to do bad and difficult to do good. Look around you now in this world. The good people do have to be forced into society. It's like good goes against the grain.
 
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I guess you could call it that. I believe there was high civilization before the flood. I think science definitely proves that a series of catastrophes befell our planet about 12,500 years ago. I can’t definitively say something like Atlantis or Lemuria existed but I do think civilization was advanced perhaps even in some ways beyond what we are today.
I think the great pyramids served a FAR greater purpose than as the tombs for pharaohs lie that is claimed today.
The idea that a Bronze Age civilization like the Egyptians could’ve built the pyramids is laughable at best. Bronze is an extremely soft metal. And yet they managed to quarry millions of tons of quartz and granite with it?! That is physically impossible. Its like saying you cut down a forest of red woods with a plastic knife.
I have a hard time with those who believe the earth is 6000 years old. It's illogical. I don't have all the answers and the bible wasn't meant to be such. Pope JPII had some encyclical where he said there were probably life way before Adam and Eve but these were more like animals in that they had no soul. When God made Adam He made him with a soul. Anyway, something like that and it made a lot of people upset. We just don't have all the answers, and that's okay because it leaves room for faith.
 
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