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Batteries cost more than the car

13 dead YTD in NYC alone? Holy crap.


I spoke with a Fire Chief of a major metro area recently and he was telling me about the difficulties of putting out a battery fire...especially if the batteries are incased in something like a vehicle.

Without highly specialized equipment, the best a fire department can do is watch it burn and do the best they can to cool it and keep it from spreading to other things.

He explained a nightmare scenario with regards to an EV fire. It was scary enough that I won't repeat it on the internet.
 
I get you guys are snowflakes, but scared of batteries??? Really??? Is this in the Bible too?
 
I get you guys are snowflakes, but scared of batteries??? Really??? Is this in the Bible too?

It's science...and I know you guys are hit or miss on that.


In some lithium batteries, combustion can separate fluorine from lithium salts in the battery. If mixed with water vapors, fluorine may produce hydrofluoric acid, which is particularly hazardous because workers may not feel its effects until hours after skin exposure.

The vented battery gases, vapour and smoke are highly toxic and flammable and must not be inhaled.

A puncture, damage, short circuit, or abuse of a battery can cause 'thermal runaway'. In the event a Li-ion battery explodes, it will cause extreme heat and a flash, release a toxic vapour into the area and pose immediate and significant risks to workers and others.

The greatest hazard with lithium ion batteries is the flammable electrolyte stored within the battery cell. Lithium-ion battery fires generally occur when a battery is on charge, or when flammable electrolyte leaks out and comes in contact with an ignition source.

Small lithium batteries contain very little lithium, so they can be doused with water. To put out large lithium-ion battery fires, use a foam extinguisher containing CO2, powder graphite, ABC dry chemical, or sodium carbonate. In battery pack fires, each cell may burn on a different timeline.

As fire fighters have discovered in recent years, lithium-ion battery fires are prone to reigniting. That's because the lithium salts in the battery are self-oxidizing, which means that they can't be "starved out" like a traditional fire.


So...using water on a large Lithium-ion battery that is on fire is a bad idea.

Also, since Lithium-ion batteries are "self-oxidizing," smothering them is difficult if not impossible.

PS...they'll be emitting poisonous gas while you ponder the above.
 
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It's science...and I know you guys are hit or miss on that.


In some lithium batteries, combustion can separate fluorine from lithium salts in the battery. If mixed with water vapors, fluorine may produce hydrofluoric acid, which is particularly hazardous because workers may not feel its effects until hours after skin exposure.

The vented battery gases, vapour and smoke are highly toxic and flammable and must not be inhaled.

A puncture, damage, short circuit, or abuse of a battery can cause 'thermal runaway'. In the event a Li-ion battery explodes, it will cause extreme heat and a flash, release a toxic vapour into the area and pose immediate and significant risks to workers and others.

The greatest hazard with lithium ion batteries is the flammable electrolyte stored within the battery cell. Lithium-ion battery fires generally occur when a battery is on charge, or when flammable electrolyte leaks out and comes in contact with an ignition source.

Small lithium batteries contain very little lithium, so they can be doused with water. To put out large lithium-ion battery fires, use a foam extinguisher containing CO2, powder graphite, ABC dry chemical, or sodium carbonate. In battery pack fires, each cell may burn on a different timeline.

As fire fighters have discovered in recent years, lithium-ion battery fires are prone to reigniting. That's because the lithium salts in the battery are self-oxidizing, which means that they can't be "starved out" like a traditional fire.


So...using water on a large Lithium-ion battery that is on fire is a bad idea.

Also, since Lithium-ion batteries are "self-oxidizing," smothering them is difficult if not impossible.

PS...they'll be emitting poisonous gas while you ponder the above.
Of course it is, batteries are more flammable than gas and oil!!! Lol.
 
Of course it is, batteries are more flammable than gas and oil!!! Lol.

There's that Y tagent. You are nothing if not predictable.

No one said a damn thing about more or less flammable. Battery fires are difficult to put out and require a whole new skill set and equipment.

Please get smarter...and less crazy if it's not too much to ask.
 
13 dead YTD in NYC alone? Holy crap.

That's amazingly bad in such a short span. It probably took combustion engines 75 years to blow up and kill that many people.
 
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The Fire Chief I mentioned earlier told me about a Tesla that caught fire in a parking garage (middle deck). They managed to put it out but it kept reigniting. Every time they moved it afterwards, trying to get it out of the parking garage, it would essentially explode and they'd have to put it out again.

Eventually they just decided to leave it where it was and for 6 days they left a rotating crew and fire trucks to monitor it. In those 6 days they extinguished it 119 times.

Nothing unusual about that, right? 😂
 
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There's that Y tagent. You are nothing if not predictable.

No one said a damn thing about more or less flammable. Battery fires are difficult to put out and require a whole new skill set and equipment.

Please get smarter...and less crazy if it's not too much to ask.
14 seconds of research....assuming I got the subject matter right. I've got your frien on ignore.


University of Tennessee Study: Electric car fires are more common than those in gasoline cars.

“The study found that electric car fires occur in 3 out of every 1,000 starts, while internal combustion car fires occur in 1 out of every 10,000 starts.

Electric cars are generally considered to be safer than gas cars, as they do not produce emissions that can endanger people. However, this study states that electric car fires are more common than previously thought.”

University of California-Irvine Study: “Electric car fires are responsible for approximately one-third of all car fires in the United States.”

This is significant because electric cars make up a relatively small percentage of the overall vehicle market.”
 
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There's that Y tagent. You are nothing if not predictable.

No one said a damn thing about more or less flammable. Battery fires are difficult to put out and require a whole new skill set and equipment.

Please get smarter...and less crazy if it's not too much to ask.
You’re hyperventilating about how dangerous batteries are nickel, do you really think you’re clever?
 
I get you guys are snowflakes, but scared of batteries??? Really??? Is this in the Bible too?
MDF - I also get that you have programmed on your keyboard of F5 = Sheep, F6 = Snowflakes, and etc. but when can you recognize that it is perfectly plausible that an shift to EVs can come with significant issues - whether it be mining practice, availability of materials, grid issues, compounded load issues on roads due to battery weights, and in this case...battery fires and fire departments that are not equipped to handle it.

It does not mean, at all, you scrap it, but that we need to be measured in our approach.
 
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I am not hyperventilating- I just refuse to buy a fancy ass over priced golf cart
The interesting part is that what SHOULD be happening is that an EV is 20-30% less than a gas combustion one. Why? it has far fewer parts.

So, IF, you had a car like the Tesla-S that could be run off of your home's solar power, could do 0-60 in 2.9 seconds AND was 20% cheaper than my Audi A7, then I would buy it all day long.

My hybrid Jeep Grand Cherokee is a real pleasure to drive in electric mode.
 
There's that Y tagent. You are nothing if not predictable.

No one said a damn thing about more or less flammable. Battery fires are difficult to put out and require a whole new skill set and equipment.

Please get smarter...and less crazy if it's not too much to ask.
I am with you on this one. it is a major risk and one to be considered.

MDF - I am not sure why this is so hard to grasp. And, to the the argument's credit, they are citing the NTSB, local newspapers, etc. It is not like it is OAN and Newsmax.
 
MDF - I also get that you have programmed on your keyboard of F5 = Sheep, F6 = Snowflakes, and etc. but when can you recognize that it is perfectly plausible that an shift to EVs can come with significant issues - whether it be mining practice, availability of materials, grid issues, compounded load issues on roads due to battery weights, and in this case...battery fires and fire departments that are not equipped to handle it.
It does not mean, at all, you scrap it, but that we need to be measured in our approach.
Lol, every shift has winners and losers, when we banned smoking in most places a lot of people lost, more won. There is an unhealthy obsession with these monkeys in seeing any sign of trouble with ev’s. I am not a climate thumper I could give a rats ass, it’s a great car and great technology. Is it better for the environment too? Most likely it is. Solar and self sustaining battery power are coming, it doesn’t take a genius to see that, although it has helped me…
 
I am with you on this one. it is a major risk and one to be considered.

MDF - I am not sure why this is so hard to grasp. And, to the the argument's credit, they are citing the NTSB, local newspapers, etc. It is not like it is OAN and Newsmax.
I know what they are doing they are swinging at ghosts of perceived enemies, it’s an unhealthy obsession and it’s sad. Progress comes with a price, nothing is free.
 
One big caveat here is that the majority of car fires occur with older model cars. There aren't many older EVs on the road, with the older models dating back to about 2012. So more data are needed to be sure, but we can say with reasonable confidence that the risk of fire in EVs isn't higher than that of gas cars.

It’s an unhealthy obsession and it’s typical of snowflakes and sheep. Progress needn’t scare people.
 
One big caveat here is that the majority of car fires occur with older model cars. There aren't many older EVs on the road, with the older models dating back to about 2012. So more data are needed to be sure, but we can say with reasonable confidence that the risk of fire in EVs isn't higher than that of gas cars.

It’s an unhealthy obsession and it’s typical of snowflakes and sheep. Progress needn’t scare people.
How old were the cars that just burned on the tanker and sunk the ship? LOLOL You are telling a fat lie.
 
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How old were the cars that just burned on the tanker and sunk the ship? LOLOL You are telling a fat lie.
Lol, it’s a big world slim shit happens. Stop attacking ghosts, settle down and take a deep breath we are going to be ok..
 
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You’re hyperventilating about how dangerous batteries are nickel, do you really think you’re clever?

I've stated a fact and your feelings are hurt. How can I help?

I still think they're pretty cool, as I've always stated, but that doesn't change fact. You'll just have to find a way to cope.
 
I've stated a fact and your feelings are hurt. How can I help?

I still think they're pretty cool, as I've always stated, but that doesn't change fact. You'll just have to find a way to cope.
Lol, good lord you are comical. You’re swinging at ghosts slick, settle down and stop worrying
 
but we can say with reasonable confidence that the risk of fire in EVs isn't higher than that of gas cars.

This verifiably factually incorrect. @fatman76 provided the studies that prove you are FOS:

University of Tennessee Study: Electric car fires are more common than those in gasoline cars.

“The study found that electric car fires occur in 3 out of every 1,000 starts, while internal combustion car fires occur in 1 out of every 10,000 starts.

Electric cars are generally considered to be safer than gas cars, as they do not produce emissions that can endanger people. However, this study states that electric car fires are more common than previously thought.”

University of California-Irvine Study: “Electric car fires are responsible for approximately one-third of all car fires in the United States.”

This is significant because electric cars make up a relatively small percentage of the overall vehicle market.”


I'm not anti-EV's. They don't make a lot of sense yet but I still think they are neat.
 
Cool...stay ignorant because your feelings are hurt. I can't imagine that your stance surprises anyone.
You don’t engage in threads that actually matter that are real, you don’t because you are clueless. Citing random studies that ev’s are dangerous is a joke, it’s garbage science. Ev’s are obviously cleaner than fossil fuel engines, are they perfectly neutral for the environment, no. Do you care about any of this? No. You’re swinging at your perceived enemies, it’s pathetic and obvious.
 
You don’t engage in threads that actually matter that are real, you don’t because you are clueless. Citing random studies that ev’s are dangerous is a joke, it’s garbage science. Ev’s are obviously cleaner than fossil fuel engines, are they perfectly neutral for the environment, no. Do you care about any of this? No. You’re swinging at your perceived enemies, it’s pathetic and obvious.

LMAO...this is me hyperventilating again I guess? Here's my response to a lunatic...

 
maryland- it is hard for mew to understand why almost every post you make contains an insult- grow up and quit being such am asshat
 
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maryland- it is hard for mew to understand why almost every post you make contains an insult- grow up and quit being such am asshat
Spoken as she calls me Maryland. Lol, I cal it like it is, you guys are not the brightest bulbs out there as I am sure you know. The rage against progress of any sort is comical, why do you guys hate electric vehicles????? Let me see, oh yeah you link it to the climate thunoers. I don’t like the climate thumpers anymore than you guys do, but it doesn’t cloud my judgement on electric vehicles , my Tesla is an amazing car, I won’t go back to an ice vehicle.
 
Lol, every shift has winners and losers, when we banned smoking in most places a lot of people lost, more won. There is an unhealthy obsession with these monkeys in seeing any sign of trouble with ev’s. I am not a climate thumper I could give a rats ass, it’s a great car and great technology. Is it better for the environment too? Most likely it is. Solar and self sustaining battery power are coming, it doesn’t take a genius to see that, although it has helped me…
I agree with a lot of your points, I would bet that many agree as well including Bama.

Calling people sheep, monkeys, snowflakes, bible thumpers....e.g. "deplorables" is exactly what is wrong with our civil discourse nowadays. It distracts from the main points.

It's not just you, it's the elite left as noted well by David Brooks:


When central governments (NY, CA, etc.) prevent combustion sales, remove gas stoves, etc. with an overarching, non-nuanced mantra, of "you are killing the planet" with over the top degrees of moral approbation and preening you get the response you see on this board. Also, when people cite the emissions from other countries such as China and India, you get a response ranging from, "you had the benefits of colonialism and the industrial revolution, let them have theirs" to a plainer, "you are racist".

This is what your "sheep" are reacting to.

I am not seeking to be argumentative, just suggesting that you may want to be a bit more reflective in listening and responding.
 
I agree with a lot of your points, I would bet that many agree as well including Bama.

Calling people sheep, monkeys, snowflakes, bible thumpers....e.g. "deplorables" is exactly what is wrong with our civil discourse nowadays. It distracts from the main points.

It's not just you, it's the elite left as noted well by David Brooks:


When central governments (NY, CA, etc.) prevent combustion sales, remove gas stoves, etc. with an overarching, non-nuanced mantra, of "you are killing the planet" with over the top degrees of moral approbation and preening you get the response you see on this board. Also, when people cite the emissions from other countries such as China and India, you get a response ranging from, "you had the benefits of colonialism and the industrial revolution, let them have theirs" to a plainer, "you are racist".

This is what your "sheep" are reacting to.

I am not seeking to be argumentative, just suggesting that you may want to be a bit more reflective in listening and responding.
Like I said, I am not a climate thumper it’s retarded,
Do I think we should foster technologies that are
Cleaner and easier on the environment I do. So long as the cost isn’t born by the middle man. This has nothing to do with an irrational dislike of ev’s. And my language that I use fits right in here, the only issue is I am hard to bully. These guys love to hang up on the few liberals that get on here. It’s worse than junior high girls. I am not a liberal or a conservative, I have a brain and I use it. Most on here do not. I think you’re one of the few that do use your brain, you don’t see me calling you names do you?
 
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