Are these kids just showing their approval for the new Chicago mayor?

[kalimgoodman]

Same thing happens in UK where the cops don't have guns. Again, it's not a gun problem.

Fatal police shootings

The table below shows the number of people who have died as a result of police shootings in England & Wales since 1990, grouped by calendar year (January-December). INQUEST’s figures are derived from our monitoring and casework and are independent of those produced by the Home Office and other...

www.inquest.org.uk

 

[NavigatorII]

Fatal police shootings

The table below shows the number of people who have died as a result of police shootings in England & Wales since 1990, grouped by calendar year (January-December). INQUEST’s figures are derived from our monitoring and casework and are independent of those produced by the Home Office and other...

www.inquest.org.uk

Handguns and assault rifles are completely banned in Britain, and a very small percentage of British police officers carry guns, something that has led to a lower number of fatal police shootings.

 

[kalimgoodman]

Handguns and assault rifles are completely banned in Britain, and a very small percentage of British police officers carry guns, something that has led to a lower number of fatal police shootings.

So less guns work?

 

[NavigatorII]

So less guns work?

The argument is police AND people are still being murdered, guns or no guns. I can't imagine living in a society where the cops don't have lethal weapons to fend off criminals. Remember, criminals don't obey gun laws.

 

[grandhavendiddy]

I live near Indianapolis and travel (usually drive) to Chicago for business often. 3 months ago I was approached by one of the wonderful inhabitants of Chicago while sitting at a stop light. I carry (even though Illinois is not reciprocal with Indiana) and if I did not have my weapon I am not sure I would be typing this right now. No shots fired, but he tapped on my window with a hand gun and told me to get out I reached in my console and showed him I was armed. He went away, probably looking to prey on someone else. And unfortunately due to a liberal mayor and DA Indianapolis is going the same direction as Chicago.

I do not own a gun (my father in-law, former FBI agent, has an AR-15, multiple hand guns, etc. and is the LAST person you want to see on the other end of a barrel), but it is stories like this why I am increasingly prompted to carry one. Thank you for sharing and glad you are still with us.

 

[grandhavendiddy]

The argument is police AND people are still being murdered, guns or no guns. I can't imagine living in a society where the cops don't have lethal weapons to fend off criminals. Remember, criminals don't obey gun laws.

That's right.

Now Navigator - here is my question: why do Republicans both RINOs and MAGA do such a TERRIBLE job of explaining the dynamics in a sensible way? Every time they go onto a MSM media show (not MSNBC) they get eviscerated.

I think most independents will get the following:

1. Some people love guns to hunt; some people want it for protection. Some people never want guns at all.
2. Criminals do not obey gun laws.
3. Police are overwhelmed and with the defund the police and DA policies, it is markedly less safe.
4. Red-flag laws and background checks are sensible. Yes, if I want an AR-15 it should not take 9 months to get one, but I do not need it in 72 hours either.
5. We can have a reasonable discussion on concealed carry, permitting, training, etc. That can be regulated on a state-by-state basis. In my house though, the government cannot unreasonably deny my right.
6. For those who speak out against it, the question is do YOU have private security, yes or no. If Yes, then you need to step back or amend the discussion. I do NOT have private security.
7. #6 is similar to flying Private jets if you are a fervent climate activist. If you believe that it is an existential threat (I believe it is a significant problem), then DO NOT fly Private.

And finally, this is yet another reason why I am Pro-Choice. It puts you on the high ground for this discussion.

If someone, in that same community, wants to abort a baby pre-20 to 24 weeks because they already have 3 kids, father is not at home, and they cannot bring in more kids, then let them make that choice. I may disagree or hate that choice, but it is theirs.

Similar here. If Navigator wants to have an AR-15 at his house, you too may hate or disagree with it, but leave it to him.

 

[GatorTheo]

So less guns work?

Good luck with that!

 

[GatorTheo]

That's right.

Now Navigator - here is my question: why do Republicans both RINOs and MAGA do such a TERRIBLE job of explaining the dynamics in a sensible way? Every time they go onto a MSM media show (not MSNBC) they get eviscerated.

I think most independents will get the following:

1. Some people love guns to hunt; some people want it for protection. Some people never want guns at all.
2. Criminals do not obey gun laws.
3. Police are overwhelmed and with the defund the police and DA policies, it is markedly less safe.
4. Red-flag laws and background checks are sensible. Yes, if I want an AR-15 it should not take 9 months to get one, but I do not need it in 72 hours either.
5. We can have a reasonable discussion on concealed carry, permitting, training, etc. That can be regulated on a state-by-state basis. In my house though, the government cannot unreasonably deny my right.
6. For those who speak out against it, the question is do YOU have private security, yes or no. If Yes, then you need to step back or amend the discussion. I do NOT have private security.
7. #6 is similar to flying Private jets if you are a fervent climate activist. If you believe that it is an existential threat (I believe it is a significant problem), then DO NOT fly Private.

And finally, this is yet another reason why I am Pro-Choice. It puts you on the high ground for this discussion.

If someone, in that same community, wants to abort a baby pre-20 to 24 weeks because they already have 3 kids, father is not at home, and they cannot bring in more kids, then let them make that choice. I may disagree or hate that choice, but it is theirs.

Similar here. If Navigator wants to have an AR-15 at his house, you too may hate or disagree with it, but leave it to him.

You're asking why can't everyone see the issue from a pro-gun perspective.

That's like libs being puzzled over the democrats doing a terrible job educating people that DEI is a great thing.

 

[EvilWayz]

I think most independents will get the following:

1. Some people love guns to hunt; some people want it for protection. Some people never want guns at all.

None of that has anything to do with the 2nd.

2. Criminals do not obey gun laws.

Correct.

3. Police are overwhelmed and with the defund the police and DA policies, it is markedly less safe.

Correct.

4. Red-flag laws and background checks are sensible. Yes, if I want an AR-15 it should not take 9 months to get one, but I do not need it in 72 hours either.

Oh hell no. Red flag laws are unconstitutional, background checks only catch people who don't know they can't pass one and if I just passed a background check it's my property I want it right now. ya I have a ccw so waiting periods don't apply to me anyways.

5. We can have a reasonable discussion on concealed carry, permitting, training, etc. That can be regulated on a state-by-state basis. In my house though, the government cannot unreasonably deny my right.

No, we can't because what I carry is none of your business if I'm not a felon or crazy.

 

[fatman76]

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."















Socrates

So now we know when it all changed...the Greeks ruined it for the entire world for eternity.

 

[EvilWayz]

So now we know when it all changed...the Greeks ruined it for the entire world for eternity.

Well they invented pederasty, so...

 

[NavigatorII]

That's right.

Now Navigator - here is my question: why do Republicans both RINOs and MAGA do such a TERRIBLE job of explaining the dynamics in a sensible way? Every time they go onto a MSM media show (not MSNBC) they get eviscerated.

I think most independents will get the following:

1. Some people love guns to hunt; some people want it for protection. Some people never want guns at all.
2. Criminals do not obey gun laws.
3. Police are overwhelmed and with the defund the police and DA policies, it is markedly less safe.
4. Red-flag laws and background checks are sensible. Yes, if I want an AR-15 it should not take 9 months to get one, but I do not need it in 72 hours either.
5. We can have a reasonable discussion on concealed carry, permitting, training, etc. That can be regulated on a state-by-state basis. In my house though, the government cannot unreasonably deny my right.
6. For those who speak out against it, the question is do YOU have private security, yes or no. If Yes, then you need to step back or amend the discussion. I do NOT have private security.
7. #6 is similar to flying Private jets if you are a fervent climate activist. If you believe that it is an existential threat (I believe it is a significant problem), then DO NOT fly Private.

And finally, this is yet another reason why I am Pro-Choice. It puts you on the high ground for this discussion.

If someone, in that same community, wants to abort a baby pre-20 to 24 weeks because they already have 3 kids, father is not at home, and they cannot bring in more kids, then let them make that choice. I may disagree or hate that choice, but it is theirs.

Similar here. If Navigator wants to have an AR-15 at his house, you too may hate or disagree with it, but leave it to him.

I agree with most. Red flag laws worry me though.........just look at the Patriot Act. Was it well intended? Yes. Is it being used against normal law abiding citizens? Yes. Same goes for Red Flag Laws, it's only as good as the current government in control.

The reasons listed for keeping guns is fine but not what the founding fathers wrote it for. It was and still is a means from a tyrannical government, foreign or domestic overrunning us.

Abortion is now up to the states to control. And that's all I've got to say about that.

 

[fatman76]

Are there democrat open carry states?

Seems to me, THE problem is.....democrats with easy access to a massive number of firearms.

The solution is a two-parter:

1. Reduce access to guns.

2. Put democrats in jail and keep them there.

I'm all for #2, but in many of these cities you have Soros-backed DA's that are turning violent criminals loose at a rapid pace, not prioritizing locking up people who commit crimes with guns, etc. But that's the answer because a gun is an inanimate object, it doesn't hurt anyone without help.

#1 is the problem. I'm not really even making an anti- or pro-gun argument, or even a Dem vs Republican argument. The problem is there are 300-400MM guns in this country. A VAST majority are owned by peaceful private citizens.

But the minority of violent criminals are not worried about laws, they are getting their firearms off the black market because we actually do have pretty restrictive gun laws in most states. It took me 4 hours to complete the paperwork for a .22 bolt action rifle at Dick's a few years ago, and my record is squeaky clean. It's not easy to buy a gun legally.

Therefore, any increased restriction, confiscation or buy-back plan really only takes the firearms away from peaceful citizens. When criminals know that peaceful people can't match firepower, bad sh!t happens. Those kids who were shooting in the streets the other night, they didn't go to a legit licensed dealer for those guns.

 

[GatorTheo]

I'm all for #2, but in many of these cities you have Soros-backed DA's that are turning violent criminals loose at a rapid pace, not prioritizing locking up people who commit crimes with guns, etc. But that's the answer because a gun is an inanimate object, it doesn't hurt anyone without help.

#1 is the problem. I'm not really even making an anti- or pro-gun argument, or even a Dem vs Republican argument. The problem is there are 300-400MM guns in this country. A VAST majority are owned by peaceful private citizens.

But the minority of violent criminals are not worried about laws, they are getting their firearms off the black market because we actually do have pretty restrictive gun laws in most states. It took me 4 hours to complete the paperwork for a .22 bolt action rifle at Dick's a few years ago, and my record is squeaky clean. It's not easy to buy a gun legally.

Therefore, any increased restriction, confiscation or buy-back plan really only takes the firearms away from peaceful citizens. When criminals know that peaceful people can't match firepower, bad sh!t happens. Those kids who were shooting in the streets the other night, they didn't go to a legit licensed dealer for those guns.

The extreme left feels the exact opposite. Criminals aren't the problem.....guns are.

 

[kalimgoodman]

Good luck with that!

I am not advocating for that. I am well aware that guns are here to stay.

 

[GatorTheo]

I am not advocating for that. I am well aware that guns are here to stay.

I'm just saying the pro-guns guys will quickly reject anything that infers guns present any kind of problem.

 

[kalimgoodman]

The argument is police AND people are still being murdered, guns or no guns. I can't imagine living in a society where the cops don't have lethal weapons to fend off criminals. Remember, criminals don't obey gun laws.

Correct, or any laws for that matter.

 

[kalimgoodman]

I'm just saying the pro-guns guys will quickly reject anything that infers guns present any kind of problem.

Polling actually shows that most gun owners are for safety measures and laws BUT the minority rules on this topic.

 

[NavigatorII]

The extreme left feels the exact opposite. Criminals aren't the problem.....guns are.

Well, they are idiots, aren't they? 😂

 

[EvilWayz]

Polling actually shows that most gun owners are for safety measures and laws BUT the minority rules on this topic.

Lol. Seriously?

What's the methodology of these polls because I've been hearing for years 90% of NRA members support stricter gun laws.

 

[NavigatorII]

It took me 4 hours to complete the paperwork for a .22 bolt action rifle at Dick's a few years ago, and my record is squeaky clean. It's not easy to buy a gun legally.

@fatman76
What? Can't remember, you live in Virginia?

 

[EvilWayz]

It took me 4 hours to complete the paperwork for a .22 bolt action rifle at Dick's a few years ago

That's because they expect you to be able to read without moving your lips.

 

[kalimgoodman]

Lol. Seriously?

What's the methodology of these polls because I've been hearing for years 90% of NRA members support stricter gun laws.

I said the minority, I didn't single out the NRA either way.

 

[NavigatorII]

Hmmmmm, Obama's 3rd term of Brownshirts...........

 

[EvilWayz]

I said the minority, I didn't single out the NRA either way.

WTF did I say. You state most gun owners, you prove that. Calling someone on the phone, asking if someone identifies as a gun owner and then conducting a poll doesn't cut it. And how the hell does that work, everyone wants this thing but we can't get the votes to pass this thing we want because, reasons?

 

[fatman76]

The extreme left feels the exact opposite. Criminals aren't the problem.....guns are.

And ice cream doesn’t cause diabetes, spoons do.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

And ice cream doesn’t cause diabetes, spoons do.

Every single solution @GatorTheo offers involves disarming people who haven't broken the law.

Toddlers can see the problem with that. Emotional adults cannot.

 

[NavigatorII]

WTF did I say. You state most gun owners, you prove that. Calling someone on the phone, asking if someone identifies as a gun owner and then conducting a poll doesn't cut it. And how the hell does that work, everyone wants this thing but we can't get the votes to pass this thing we want because, reasons?

LOL..... Imagine a polling firm random calling people if they own a gun(s). Yeah, that's going to accurately portray real numbers. 😂

 

[GatorTheo]

Well, they are idiots, aren't they? 😂

They're extremists. Of course, extremists don't recognize that they're extremists. They think they're being perfectly logical.

 

[GatorTheo]

LOL..... Imagine a polling firm random calling people if they own a gun(s). Yeah, that's going to accurately portray real numbers. 😂

Kinda like asking gun owners if they've ever used their gun for defense.

 

[GatorTheo]

Every single solution @GatorTheo offers involves disarming people who haven't broken the law.

Toddlers can see the problem with that. Emotional adults cannot.

Did you ever take reading for comprehension in school?

If so, you should probably consider a refresher course.

 

[NavigatorII]

Kinda like asking gun owners if they've ever used their gun for defense.

If one has a gun on their nightstand, they've used it for defense. Whether or not it's been deployed is a separate issue.

The point is, no one is going to tell a complete stranger that they have firearms in the house. It could be a theft ring or it could be the Goebbels squad.

 

[NavigatorII]

This is as good a place as any. I'll just leave this here.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Did you ever take reading for comprehension in school?

If so, you should probably consider a refresher course.

I took The Joys of Debating an Idiot as an elective in college. After reading your posts, I just went back to campus and punched my instructor in the mouth.

 

[GatorTheo]

This is as good a place as any. I'll just leave this here.

It's funny, in a sad way, how y'all try to tie workplace/school gun violence to a lack of guns.

 

[kalimgoodman]

WTF did I say. You state most gun owners, you prove that. Calling someone on the phone, asking if someone identifies as a gun owner and then conducting a poll doesn't cut it. And how the hell does that work, everyone wants this thing but we can't get the votes to pass this thing we want because, reasons?

It wasn't and isn't Kalim polls...but because minority rules!

 

[NavigatorII]

It's funny, in a sad way, how y'all try to tie workplace/school gun violence to a lack of guns.

And THERE is the irony of "Gun Free Zones".

 

[GatorTheo]

If one has a gun on their nightstand, they've used it for defense....

Maybe that's where the ridiculously inflated DGU numbers are coming from. They're counting the times it's been on their nightstand.

 

[RayGravesGhost]

Amazing how conservatives connect a teen mob to a political action of "showing their approval for the new mayor"

But also don't connect a mob of adults to a political action of "showing their approval of a loser president"

In one case they want arrests...In the other case the scream "Tyranny"

 

[RayGravesGhost]

15 arrested so far...Will conservatives here come to their defense that this is just as "legitimate" as the Jan 6 rioters?


https://www.yahoo.com/news/fifteen-arrested-large-groups-young-162100080.html
15 arrested after large groups of young adults, juveniles swarmed downtown Saturday night, police say
Shanzeh Ahmad, Chicago Tribune
Mon, April 17, 2023 at 12:21 PM EDT