Abortion, the Woman's Vote and the 2022 Election

Dr. Curmudgeon

Bull Gator
Oct 17, 2018
5,622
9,544
113
Nail - if it turns out that Roevember is not a thing and that the Republicans take control of the house and senate, then great. It's still a bad issue for the Republicans. I saw Hershel Walker's interview tonight on NBC. He has Warnock on most every issue, but when asked about paying for his girlfriend's abortion, he hemmed, hawed and said that "I don't remember what it was for".

We have been on these boards (football, let alone this one) to know exactly what it was for.

If he said, that "she was 5 weeks pregnant and asked for an abortion, well within Lindsey G's 15 week timeframe" then great, that's consistent. His answer was not compelling - at all, and will be watched in key swing GA districts.

I think his is the race to watch. If he wins the race, then clearly Abortion is not that important. I am pro-choice (meaning, I want government out of it), but there is no reasonable way to argue otherwise.
Yeah, both parties are burying the issue and that is despicable to me. The GOP is focusing on the economy, border/immigration, and security while the left is focusing on global environmental issues and the alphabet gang/women's rights. Both forsake the murder of innocent lives.
 

fatman76

Bull Gator
Jun 15, 2007
6,529
12,869
113
Nail - if it turns out that Roevember is not a thing and that the Republicans take control of the house and senate, then great. It's still a bad issue for the Republicans. I saw Hershel Walker's interview tonight on NBC. He has Warnock on most every issue, but when asked about paying for his girlfriend's abortion, he hemmed, hawed and said that "I don't remember what it was for".

We have been on these boards (football, let alone this one) to know exactly what it was for.

If he said, that "she was 5 weeks pregnant and asked for an abortion, well within Lindsey G's 15 week timeframe" then great, that's consistent. His answer was not compelling - at all, and will be watched in key swing GA districts.

I think his is the race to watch. If he wins the race, then clearly Abortion is not that important. I am pro-choice (meaning, I want government out of it), but there is no reasonable way to argue otherwise.
He also gave one of the greatest responses ever in a debate...Warnok said "I trust women more than politicians, politicians don't belong in the exam room with women and their doctors".

Walker's response was "I'm pretty sure there's a baby in that room too"...

Whatever Herschel Walker did in his personal life is what it is, if you think this is the height of hypocrisy you've been following politics for about 45 minutes.

Regardless, women are more than their reproductive parts. Don't fall into the dem trap. And don't forget that Georgia has perhaps the most corrupt voting system in the US, I don't think that race is a litmus test.

The red wave is coming.
 

fatman76

Bull Gator
Jun 15, 2007
6,529
12,869
113
Yeah, both parties are burying the issue and that is despicable to me. The GOP is focusing on the economy, border/immigration, and security while the left is focusing on global environmental issues and the alphabet gang/women's rights. Both forsake the murder of innocent lives.
It's just not an important issue to most voters. Politicians run races to win.

However you feel is perfectly fine, but to pound that drum is a losing proposition for both sides.

My little sister has decided to go to New Mexico to be induced early, I;m happy she didn't decide to abort at 22 weeks. God didn't give her baby a brain, but Texas doesn't agree with His decision and now she's driving 9 hours to avoid carrying a terminated pregnancy to full term. That's insane.

My point is, this is a VERY nuanced issue and for the most part the extremists on both sides have dominated the debate and over-emphasized it.
 

Gator Fever

Bull Gator
Feb 13, 2008
22,694
6,256
113
There should be no abortion procedures period with there being a day after pill that can be used for days afterwards.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nail1988
Oct 1, 2012
30,139
39,150
113
It's just not an important issue to most voters. Politicians run races to win.

However you feel is perfectly fine, but to pound that drum is a losing proposition for both sides.

My little sister has decided to go to New Mexico to be induced early, I;m happy she didn't decide to abort at 22 weeks. God didn't give her baby a brain, but Texas doesn't agree with His decision and now she's driving 9 hours to avoid carrying a terminated pregnancy to full term. That's insane.

My point is, this is a VERY nuanced issue and for the most part the extremists on both sides have dominated the debate and over-emphasized it.
I agree, there's actually some (very limited) potential common ground on the issue, but it will never be reached IMO.

I'm ok with that. The republicans always cave to the extremes on the left when it comes to politics, I'm thankful they didn't cave on this issue. Otherwise, we would be ceding the issue to the crazies on the left, which is what usually happens.

Some voters in the middle will be honked off by both sides, I get that.
 

Dr. Curmudgeon

Bull Gator
Oct 17, 2018
5,622
9,544
113
It's just not an important issue to most voters. Politicians run races to win.

However you feel is perfectly fine, but to pound that drum is a losing proposition for both sides.

My little sister has decided to go to New Mexico to be induced early, I;m happy she didn't decide to abort at 22 weeks. God didn't give her baby a brain, but Texas doesn't agree with His decision and now she's driving 9 hours to avoid carrying a terminated pregnancy to full term. That's insane.

My point is, this is a VERY nuanced issue and for the most part the extremists on both sides have dominated the debate and over-emphasized it.
I understand that they are pandering for votes. My point is we as Christians must never trivialize the murder of innocent lives.
 

Dr. Curmudgeon

Bull Gator
Oct 17, 2018
5,622
9,544
113
He also gave one of the greatest responses ever in a debate...Warnok said "I trust women more than politicians, politicians don't belong in the exam room with women and their doctors".

Walker's response was "I'm pretty sure there's a baby in that room too"...

Whatever Herschel Walker did in his personal life is what it is, if you think this is the height of hypocrisy you've been following politics for about 45 minutes.

Regardless, women are more than their reproductive parts. Don't fall into the dem trap. And don't forget that Georgia has perhaps the most corrupt voting system in the US, I don't think that race is a litmus test.

The red wave is coming.
Right^^^^^the left harps on sins while thinking nothing about the sin of murder when they abort babies. That is the irrational left in a nutshell. Evil has no rhyme nor reason.
 

jfegaly

Bull Gator
Feb 1, 2006
7,639
12,695
113
Right^^^^^the left harps on sins while thinking nothing about the sin of murder when they abort babies. That is the irrational left in a nutshell. Evil has no rhyme nor reason.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

The one area there should be government intervention is the one area diddy claims he wants government out of. It’s quite comical actually.

But hey, a person’s “right” to make a second bad choice is more important than the actual God given right to LIFE.

These are absolutely the moral battles we should be fighting, politics be damned.

@grandhavendiddy
 

Dr. Curmudgeon

Bull Gator
Oct 17, 2018
5,622
9,544
113
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

The one area there should be government intervention is the one area diddy claims he wants government out of. It’s quite comical actually.

But hey, a person’s “right” to make a second bad choice is more important than the actual God given right to LIFE.

These are absolutely the moral battles we should be fighting, politics be damned.

@grandhavendiddy
Good to see you, brother in Christ. God bless 💜💜
 

Capt Ron 1

Bull Gator
Gold Member
Nov 29, 2021
6,858
10,915
113
61
Fort Walton Bch, Fl
Nail - if it turns out that Roevember is not a thing and that the Republicans take control of the house and senate, then great. It's still a bad issue for the Republicans. I saw Hershel Walker's interview tonight on NBC. He has Warnock on most every issue, but when asked about paying for his girlfriend's abortion, he hemmed, hawed and said that "I don't remember what it was for".

We have been on these boards (football, let alone this one) to know exactly what it was for.

If he said, that "she was 5 weeks pregnant and asked for an abortion, well within Lindsey G's 15 week timeframe" then great, that's consistent. His answer was not compelling - at all, and will be watched in key swing GA districts.

I think his is the race to watch. If he wins the race, then clearly Abortion is not that important. I am pro-choice (meaning, I want government out of it), but there is no reasonable way to argue otherwise.
This is THE MOST brainwashed response that I have read in some time. I do not know if you posted this for diversion, or you actually believe that it is important. Because what is at stake in Georgia in ONLY this. Warnock will vote for the Biden agenda, Walker will vote against it. NOTHING ELSE is important AT ALL.
 
Oct 1, 2012
30,139
39,150
113
This is THE MOST brainwashed response that I have read in some time. I do not know if you posted this for diversion, or you actually believe that it is important. Because what is at stake in Georgia in ONLY this. Warnock will vote for the Biden agenda, Walker will vote against it. NOTHING ELSE is important AT ALL.
He's Pro-Death. He's desperate that abortion stays legal and it's obviously his most important issue.

This is why Herschel needs to win: The establishment can't turn him. When most republicans win a senate seat, McConnell gives them the ole 'You need to play ball if you want to make this your career' speech when they arrive in the Senate. He can't give Walker that talk cause Herschel will vote America First. He doesn't care about 'get along to get along' that swamp rats like McConnell and Lindsay Graham play.
 

Dr. Curmudgeon

Bull Gator
Oct 17, 2018
5,622
9,544
113
He's Pro-Death. He's desperate that abortion stays legal and it's obviously his most important issue.

This is why Herschel needs to win: The establishment can't turn him. When most republicans win a senate seat, McConnell gives them the ole 'You need to play ball if you want to make this your career' speech when they arrive in the Senate. He can't give Walker that talk cause Herschel will vote America First. He doesn't care about 'get along to get along' that swamp rats like McConnell and Lindsay Graham play.
Correct 💯 the left promotes wickedness and evil at every corner. Removal of guns from law abiding citizens, and rewards abhorrent behavior with light sentences. They sweep abortion under the rug and pretend they are favoring women's Rights, it's all smoke and mirrors from these carnie barkers.
 
Oct 1, 2012
30,139
39,150
113
He also gave one of the greatest responses ever in a debate...Warnok said "I trust women more than politicians, politicians don't belong in the exam room with women and their doctors".

Walker's response was "I'm pretty sure there's a baby in that room too"...
That's a great answer. Only saw clips that were Herschel's highlights, but he seemed to do pretty well and Warlock seemed pretty flustered.

The red wave is coming.
I'll believe it when I see it. I was just on Truth Social, a woman has a team of drop box watchers in Mesa, AZ staking out a drop box. Last night an SUV pulls up to the drop box in reverse so they can't read its plates, then the guy gets out of the car with his back to them and never shows his face. Walks up to the drop box, then pulls ballots out from under his shirt and stuffs them in the box. She posted photos of all this.

We haven't ensured election integrity. The only way there is a Red Wave is if so many people vote red that we overwhelm the dems ability to cheat.
 

fatman76

Bull Gator
Jun 15, 2007
6,529
12,869
113
Have the baby in Louisiana.
I don't think you understand. Her baby isn't viable, it has a defect called anencephaly. Early in development the tube that fosters the development of the cranial cavity didn't form. The result is a perfectly normal and healthy baby that has no brain, only a brain stem that keeps all of the involuntary parts of the body operating normally.

These babies often are stillborn, some live 1-7 days.

Even with that she doesn't want her baby ripped limb from limb, but she also doesn't want to carry full term (the lack of the cranial cavity to stimulate the cervix means labor will be 1-3 days).

Texas won't make an exception here, even though God/nature did. The law sucks.

 

Dr. Curmudgeon

Bull Gator
Oct 17, 2018
5,622
9,544
113
I don't think you understand. Her baby isn't viable, it has a defect called anencephaly. Early in development the tube that fosters the development of the cranial cavity didn't form. The result is a perfectly normal and healthy baby that has no brain, only a brain stem that keeps all of the involuntary parts of the body operating normally.

These babies often are stillborn, some live 1-7 days.

Even with that she doesn't want her baby ripped limb from limb, but she also doesn't want to carry full term (the lack of the cranial cavity to stimulate the cervix means labor will be 1-3 days).

Texas won't make an exception here, even though God/nature did. The law sucks.

That is a terrible situation. I'm praying for you and your precious sister. God bless.
 

Capt Ron 1

Bull Gator
Gold Member
Nov 29, 2021
6,858
10,915
113
61
Fort Walton Bch, Fl
I don't think you understand. Her baby isn't viable, it has a defect called anencephaly. Early in development the tube that fosters the development of the cranial cavity didn't form. The result is a perfectly normal and healthy baby that has no brain, only a brain stem that keeps all of the involuntary parts of the body operating normally.

These babies often are stillborn, some live 1-7 days.

Even with that she doesn't want her baby ripped limb from limb, but she also doesn't want to carry full term (the lack of the cranial cavity to stimulate the cervix means labor will be 1-3 days).

Texas won't make an exception here, even though God/nature did. The law sucks.

I agree that this is the exception, and no one else should intervene in a families decision. God Bless you and your family.
 

park_mike

Green Machine
Gold Member
Mar 3, 2008
455
433
63
Abortion is tough because no one appears willing to define human life. The left says a baby in the womb is not a human until after birth because it cannot live separate from the mother. If we define human life like that, no one who must rely upon any medical procedure is human, including those dying of cancer or those with pace makers...etc. On the other hand, many on the right define a human life as starting when conception takes place. That is a perfectly rational position given the muddy nature of trying to find a definitive point along the timeline.

Like it or not, we often have laws which justify or at least allow for the killing of human life without legal consequences such as self defense, capital punishment and the like. The abortion debate should be centered around when that unborn human life is considered protected, and not whether it is a life since that is a scientifically invalid argument given out present medical technology and knowledge.

The problem with abortion, other than rape, is that it is an attempt to escape the consequences of volitional activity which caused the issue in the first place. If people, I know this is crazy, waited to have sex until in a marriage, then abortions would be significantly reduced if not eliminated. We live in a throw-away instant gratification society now which includes how we treat elderly and unborn. For all the great aspects of Western society, we got this very wrong.
 
Oct 1, 2012
30,139
39,150
113
And that's exactly what I think will happen. It's how Youngkin got elected here in VA.
Let's hope so. I do think there's a greater chance of it happening now versus 2020 because A: More people are aware of how they cheated last time and are watching, and B: The dems know that as well, and may not risk it for the midterms as they would for the presidential election.

I just hope we have the red wave and it washes enough America First candidates into office to make a difference.

I think Herschel's race will be a litmus test for how much cheating happens in the midterms.
 

Dr. Curmudgeon

Bull Gator
Oct 17, 2018
5,622
9,544
113
Let's hope so. I do think there's a greater chance of it happening now versus 2020 because A: More people are aware of how they cheated last time and are watching, and B: The dems know that as well, and may not risk it for the midterms as they would for the presidential election.

I just hope we have the red wave and it washes enough America First candidates into office to make a difference.

I think Herschel's race will be a litmus test for how much cheating happens in the midterms.
Yeah, and we know how Atlanta muled in millions of votes after midnight in 2020.
 

grandhavendiddy

Gator Great
Gold Member
Feb 3, 2007
4,237
2,914
113
Abortion is tough because no one appears willing to define human life. The left says a baby in the womb is not a human until after birth because it cannot live separate from the mother. If we define human life like that, no one who must rely upon any medical procedure is human, including those dying of cancer or those with pace makers...etc. On the other hand, many on the right define a human life as starting when conception takes place. That is a perfectly rational position given the muddy nature of trying to find a definitive point along the timeline.

Like it or not, we often have laws which justify or at least allow for the killing of human life without legal consequences such as self defense, capital punishment and the like. The abortion debate should be centered around when that unborn human life is considered protected, and not whether it is a life since that is a scientifically invalid argument given out present medical technology and knowledge.

The problem with abortion, other than rape, is that it is an attempt to escape the consequences of volitional activity which caused the issue in the first place. If people, I know this is crazy, waited to have sex until in a marriage, then abortions would be significantly reduced if not eliminated. We live in a throw-away instant gratification society now which includes how we treat elderly and unborn. For all the great aspects of Western society, we got this very wrong.
Part of this is spot on. Most people, as noted above by (I believe) Captain Ron, agree that abortion should be outlawed between 16-24 weeks.

Even planned parenthood (interesting read) that 93% of abortions happen in the first 15 weeks. Most people in the middle agree that when a child can live outside of the womb, then it is to be treated as an unborn life.

Now, "no one, have sex, of any kind until you are married" is beyond being unreasonable (read: Catholic Priests who have an oath to celibacy, and more examples that any person can count). It is also possible that people get pregnant in marriage, use contraception, try to be responsible but those methods are never 100%.

Either way, up until that definition of human life, get the government out of it.

As for the NYT/Sienna poll, as noted above, it is a remarkable poll and I noted as such - but that is a poll that is U.S. wide. For a race such as Walker's senate race, Loeffler lost by 93,000 votes and Purdue by 54,000. That is 200 basis points - that is it.

So, the question is how has the Walker abortion scandal played out? It's gone from even to, using a combination of polls being Warnock +3.


+3...or just the amount that cost Loeffler the senate seat and in turn the Republicans control of the senate.

So, let's go back to the NYT/Sienna poll. It says - clearly, that IN AGGREGATE, the economy and stopping the biden agenda on inflation, crime, borders, etc. is FAR more important than abortion.

So, then, why give that an issue to the Democrats? Again, if in your own life, your own family, your church, etc. you are staunchly pro-life. Terrific. make that choice and it is clear that you have deeply held moral beliefs in that. Or in some cases, as 76 said, an abortion earlier on is the best thing for the mother.

If, as Kanye said, the black community in 2012 aborted more babies than had births in NYC, then that community can deal with it.

I have ZERO interest is not being able to drive progress on the other issues noted above.

In the end, the litmus test will be the polls. If Walker wins, then yes, abortion was not enough of a swing issue to make a difference.

If he loses and the Republicans lose the senate.....
 

jfegaly

Bull Gator
Feb 1, 2006
7,639
12,695
113
Part of this is spot on. Most people, as noted above by (I believe) Captain Ron, agree that abortion should be outlawed between 16-24 weeks.

Even planned parenthood (interesting read) that 93% of abortions happen in the first 15 weeks. Most people in the middle agree that when a child can live outside of the womb, then it is to be treated as an unborn life.

Now, "no one, have sex, of any kind until you are married" is beyond being unreasonable (read: Catholic Priests who have an oath to celibacy, and more examples that any person can count). It is also possible that people get pregnant in marriage, use contraception, try to be responsible but those methods are never 100%.

Either way, up until that definition of human life, get the government out of it.

As for the NYT/Sienna poll, as noted above, it is a remarkable poll and I noted as such - but that is a poll that is U.S. wide. For a race such as Walker's senate race, Loeffler lost by 93,000 votes and Purdue by 54,000. That is 200 basis points - that is it.

So, the question is how has the Walker abortion scandal played out? It's gone from even to, using a combination of polls being Warnock +3.


+3...or just the amount that cost Loeffler the senate seat and in turn the Republicans control of the senate.

So, let's go back to the NYT/Sienna poll. It says - clearly, that IN AGGREGATE, the economy and stopping the biden agenda on inflation, crime, borders, etc. is FAR more important than abortion.

So, then, why give that an issue to the Democrats? Again, if in your own life, your own family, your church, etc. you are staunchly pro-life. Terrific. make that choice and it is clear that you have deeply held moral beliefs in that. Or in some cases, as 76 said, an abortion earlier on is the best thing for the mother.

If, as Kanye said, the black community in 2012 aborted more babies than had births in NYC, then that community can deal with it.

I have ZERO interest is not being able to drive progress on the other issues noted above.

In the end, the litmus test will be the polls. If Walker wins, then yes, abortion was not enough of a swing issue to make a difference.

If he loses and the Republicans lose the senate.....
Get the government out of it you say? Seems like the right to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is EXACTLY something our founders defined as A GOD given right that they anticipated our Government would need to protect. Yet here we are, and here you are.
 
Oct 1, 2012
30,139
39,150
113
Abortion is tough because no one appears willing to define human life. The left says a baby in the womb is not a human until after birth because it cannot live separate from the mother. If we define human life like that, no one who must rely upon any medical procedure is human, including those dying of cancer or those with pace makers...etc.
IMO this is mostly where the left would like to go on abortion. IMO they want to focus on abortion being allowed as long as the baby needs the mother to live. They would like to start with that clearing the way for abortion up to birth. From there, they would like to extend it to AFTER birth. Then the question would be 'Well when DOES a child have the ability to live without the mother?' So you could see a scary scenario where the left could push for abortions to be extended past birth, maybe even YEARS past.

This is demonic. The left is attacking our most defenseless, children. This is a direct assault on God. If Christians on the right did NOT push back, we would likely have laws on the books saying it is legal for a parent to kill their child up till X years of age.

Everyone should educate themselves on the 'new world order' and 'great reset' that the left wants. A big part of it is they want to massively slash world population down to 500M.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jfegaly
Oct 1, 2012
30,139
39,150
113
In the end, the litmus test will be the polls. If Walker wins, then yes, abortion was not enough of a swing issue to make a difference.

If he loses and the Republicans lose the senate.....
If Herschel loses* his stance on abortion will have nothing to do with it. I've defended you here as being a decent poster but I swear when it comes to abortion you come off every bit of a @kalimgoodman / @BSC911 type troll.
 

jfegaly

Bull Gator
Feb 1, 2006
7,639
12,695
113
IMO this is mostly where the left would like to go on abortion. IMO they want to focus on abortion being allowed as long as the baby needs the mother to live. They would like to start with that clearing the way for abortion up to birth. From there, they would like to extend it to AFTER birth. Then the question would be 'Well when DOES a child have the ability to live without the mother?' So you could see a scary scenario where the left could push for abortions to be extended past birth, maybe even YEARS past.

This is demonic. The left is attacking our most defenseless, children. This is a direct assault on God. If Christians on the right did NOT push back, we would likely have laws on the books saying it is legal for a parent to kill their child up till X years of age.

Everyone should educate themselves on the 'new world order' and 'great reset' that the left wants. A big part of it is they want to massively slash world population down to 500M.
Bingo. Just to add on, the hidden truth behind climate change for the powers that be is that WE are their reason for climate change. That’s their quiet part out loud.

WE caused climate change. Gotta have less humans. Sickos every one of them.
 

fatman76

Bull Gator
Jun 15, 2007
6,529
12,869
113
Let's hope so. I do think there's a greater chance of it happening now versus 2020 because A: More people are aware of how they cheated last time and are watching, and B: The dems know that as well, and may not risk it for the midterms as they would for the presidential election.

I just hope we have the red wave and it washes enough America First candidates into office to make a difference.

I think Herschel's race will be a litmus test for how much cheating happens in the midterms.
Yep, GA is a freaking cesspool.
 

grandhavendiddy

Gator Great
Gold Member
Feb 3, 2007
4,237
2,914
113
If Herschel loses* his stance on abortion will have nothing to do with it. I've defended you here as being a decent poster but I swear when it comes to abortion you come off every bit of a @kalimgoodman / @BSC911 type troll.
I appreciate the sentiment and "defense" (not that I have seen it, lol or ask for it). I am also not here to argue, troll, or otherwise. You will note that I do not (or try very hard at least) not to attack anyone for their views and if I am wrong (e.g. Herschel wins) then I will be happy to say that my intuition was wrong on something. I appreciate the pro-life sentiment of much of this board and it is clear that it is honestly and deeply felt.

I happen to have a libertarian view on social issues. I believe in competition. I believe in choice. (#1 area - school choice)

I think, in practice, in a multi-racial/multi-religion society, to enforce top-down government initiatives be it abortion, vaccine mandates (see how that failed), etc. Even in mono-lithic race and religious societies, it is hard to enforce.

What I also think the "pro-life" and "pro-choice" discussion is truly about, to those are deeply vested in the topic, is a reaction to the 1970s "sexual revolution" and what that has done to society. It is an emblem.

I agree with many who have posted that individuals have abrogated their individual responsibilities and just use abortion as a tool to wipe away terrible decision making. I would bet, deep down, even individuals like Dion Sanders (watch some of his clips, they are pretty remarkable - in a good way) would agree.

Anyways, we will see with Hershel here in the next set of weeks.
 

Dr. Curmudgeon

Bull Gator
Oct 17, 2018
5,622
9,544
113
Get the government out of it you say? Seems like the right to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is EXACTLY something our founders defined as A GOD given right that they anticipated our Government would need to protect. Yet here we are, and here you are.
God needs to be at the top of everything we do. There is way too much separation from God is why our world is in crisis.
 

park_mike

Green Machine
Gold Member
Mar 3, 2008
455
433
63
IMO this is mostly where the left would like to go on abortion. IMO they want to focus on abortion being allowed as long as the baby needs the mother to live. They would like to start with that clearing the way for abortion up to birth. From there, they would like to extend it to AFTER birth. Then the question would be 'Well when DOES a child have the ability to live without the mother?' So you could see a scary scenario where the left could push for abortions to be extended past birth, maybe even YEARS past.

This is demonic. The left is attacking our most defenseless, children. This is a direct assault on God. If Christians on the right did NOT push back, we would likely have laws on the books saying it is legal for a parent to kill their child up till X years of age.

Everyone should educate themselves on the 'new world order' and 'great reset' that the left wants. A big part of it is they want to massively slash world population down to 500M.
I think the first battle is to recraft the argument from "fetus" to child. Once it is established that an unborn baby, regardless of the number of weeks in the womb after conception, is a human life, then the abortion argument gets much tougher. The left has controlled the narrative by treating the baby the same as a cancer tumor and dehumanizing it. If we change the parameters of the debate to when it is legally permissible to kill another human, then it will get much harder for non-extremists to stomach abortion at all.

Whether you like it or not, the government has always had the power to determine when it is legal to kill another human. In Jesus' time, the Roman empire killed people left and right. Last time I checked, Jesus did not attempt to overturn the Roman political system, as corrupt as it was, but attempted to change people's hearts which would ultimately impact society at large. That is where I believe we Christians should put the vast majority of our effort in, reaching individuals through personal relationships to lead them to Christ. Only He can change a person's heart which will change their worldview and then their perspective on abortion. I am all for voting for good people in government, but I do not believe that legislating morality will ultimately work. I am more concerned with my neighbor's eternal destination than attempting to make every law in America based on the Bible.

If we see enough people surrender to Christ and His teachings, and have a personal relationship with Him, society will reflect this as will the enacted laws. Just my humble opinion. But, I do love your zeal Ghost!
 

jfegaly

Bull Gator
Feb 1, 2006
7,639
12,695
113
I think the first battle is to recraft the argument from "fetus" to child. Once it is established that an unborn baby, regardless of the number of weeks in the womb after conception, is a human life, then the abortion argument gets much tougher. The left has controlled the narrative by treating the baby the same as a cancer tumor and dehumanizing it. If we change the parameters of the debate to when it is legally permissible to kill another human, then it will get much harder for non-extremists to stomach abortion at all.

Whether you like it or not, the government has always had the power to determine when it is legal to kill another human. In Jesus' time, the Roman empire killed people left and right. Last time I checked, Jesus did not attempt to overturn the Roman political system, as corrupt as it was, but attempted to change people's hearts which would ultimately impact society at large. That is where I believe we Christians should put the vast majority of our effort in, reaching individuals through personal relationships to lead them to Christ. Only He can change a person's heart which will change their worldview and then their perspective on abortion. I am all for voting for good people in government, but I do not believe that legislating morality will ultimately work. I am more concerned with my neighbor's eternal destination than attempting to make every law in America based on the Bible.

If we see enough people surrender to Christ and His teachings, and have a personal relationship with Him, society will reflect this as will the enacted laws. Just my humble opinion. But, I do love your zeal Ghost!
Conservatives have done a horrible job of properly framing the discussion. Horrible is putting it nicely.
 

Capt Ron 1

Bull Gator
Gold Member
Nov 29, 2021
6,858
10,915
113
61
Fort Walton Bch, Fl
I think the first battle is to recraft the argument from "fetus" to child. Once it is established that an unborn baby, regardless of the number of weeks in the womb after conception, is a human life, then the abortion argument gets much tougher. The left has controlled the narrative by treating the baby the same as a cancer tumor and dehumanizing it. If we change the parameters of the debate to when it is legally permissible to kill another human, then it will get much harder for non-extremists to stomach abortion at all.

Whether you like it or not, the government has always had the power to determine when it is legal to kill another human. In Jesus' time, the Roman empire killed people left and right. Last time I checked, Jesus did not attempt to overturn the Roman political system, as corrupt as it was, but attempted to change people's hearts which would ultimately impact society at large. That is where I believe we Christians should put the vast majority of our effort in, reaching individuals through personal relationships to lead them to Christ. Only He can change a person's heart which will change their worldview and then their perspective on abortion. I am all for voting for good people in government, but I do not believe that legislating morality will ultimately work. I am more concerned with my neighbor's eternal destination than attempting to make every law in America based on the Bible.

If we see enough people surrender to Christ and His teachings, and have a personal relationship with Him, society will reflect this as will the enacted laws. Just my humble opinion. But, I do love your zeal Ghost!
I think really that this has already been done. Go kill a pregnant mother and see how many murder charges there are.
 

park_mike

Green Machine
Gold Member
Mar 3, 2008
455
433
63
I think really that this has already been done. Go kill a pregnant mother and see how many murder charges there are.
I absolutely agree. The law does not make any sense as it treats an unborn baby as a human if the mother wants it and a parasite if the mother does not want it. Do we define a human being as only human if someone wants it? That is one of the main logical problems with those who promote abortion. They compartmentalize everything into mutually exclusive boxes based on feelings and desired outcomes without worrying about a comprehensive consistent world view. For example they believe the following mutually exclusive things...

Evolution vs. Every human is equal,
Gay marriage vs. Evolution / Natural Selection,
Protecting unborn sea turtles vs. killing unborn humans,
Judging past generation's actions vs. relative morality,
Trans women in women's sports vs. Feminism,
Absolute freedom to insult conservatives beliefs vs. quelling all speech they don's agree with,
Shutting down the economy for everyone else while getting a haircut without a mask (Pelosi, lol)...

...the list could go on forever.

I can disagree with but respect someone who has different views than me, even diametrically opposed views, provided they are consistent in their world view. I cannot respect anyone who bases their worldview and actions on feelings which demand different outcomes depending on the factual situation.
 

NavigatorII

Bull Gator
Dec 8, 2004
13,616
26,308
113
No but the Texas law should allow my sister to be induced early. It’s awful to make her carry to full term, her baby won’t live 24 hours.
Wait. The Texas law won't allow babies to be delivered prematurely? That's freaking nuts. How is that protecting either the mother or baby????