A “No Win” Situation...

[sadgator]

Man, sadgator is just astonished sometimes about what we do with our non-conference schedule games. sadgator has been convinced for years that the head of our scheduling department is on drugs...

It is probably better than shameful games against Idaho and Charleston Southern, but still...c’mon...

https://florida.rivals.com/news/gators-schedule-three-game-series-with-usf

 

[bradleygator]

I don't think USF is too bad. USF has probably been as good a program as we have since 2010. Gator fans can go to the away game, and the away game is good for recruiting.

 

[TennesseeGator]

Why is it bad to play USF? To play a 2for1?

Not only can we get Tampa area recruits to make an official or unofficial visit to Gainesville but now we can have Tampa area (plus others) recruits watch us in person...on USF's dime.

Are you one of the few who say "UCF didn't play anybody" but are against UF playing a similar team?

 

[sadgator]

Just Meh. Not sure why we aren’t focused on higher profile non-regional non conference matchups. Stuff like with Michigan last year is fun (until they kicked our ass). Would be great to play PAC 10 or Big 12...let’s go home and home with Oregon or Texas...that would be worth getting excited for.

 

[instaGATOR]

Yeah, because 8-9 SEC teams plus FSUcks is not enough of a schedule.

Drop FSUcks and I'd be good with Ore or Tx, otherwise...

 

[Dannygator1989]

Why is it bad to play USF? To play a 2for1?

Not only can we get Tampa area recruits to make an official or unofficial visit to Gainesville but now we can have Tampa area (plus others) recruits watch us in person...on USF's dime.

Are you one of the few who say "UCF didn't play anybody" but are against UF playing a similar team?

They beat your Memphis twice and USF....yaaaaaay.

And a four loss Auburn?

Your Memphis glasses continue to blind you on this subject.

 

[TennesseeGator]

They beat your Memphis twice and USF....yaaaaaay.

And a four loss Auburn?

Your Memphis glasses continue to blind you on this subject.

You are reading into it wrong

-I never claimed UCF played a good schedule.

- I'm saying if we are going to use their schedule against them...then we should play the likes of them when available.

-How the hell else are they going to play "somebody" when all these "some bodies" won't schedule.

-And don't give me the such and such faces off against such and such. Sure while we occasionally play a Michigan or Miami...we play Idaho, Presbyterian, and such.

- While I understand a pay game and the easy revenue it brings in...the Bama's, UF's, and all else should step it up a notch instead of some of these bullcrap games they play but keep all others down and talk ish about schedule and all else.

 

[Dannygator1989]

You are reading into it wrong

-I never claimed UCF played a good schedule.

- I'm saying if we are going to use their schedule against them...then we should play the likes of them when available.

-How the hell else are they going to play "somebody" when all these "some bodies" won't schedule.

-And don't give me the such and such faces off against such and such. Sure while we occasionally play a Michigan or Miami...we play Idaho, Presbyterian, and such.

- While I understand a pay game and the easy revenue it brings in...the Bama's, UF's, and all else should step it up a notch instead of some of these bullcrap games they play but keep all others down and talk ish about schedule and all else.

I just disagree.

Same thing with FSU in the 90s.

Get up for two games a season and play trash the rest of it so that you're in much better shape than those two teams that have a pulse are.

Just annoying.

There's nothing wrong with teams in strong conferences, especially ones like Florida that play a powerhouse non-conference team EVERY YEAR, regardless, should have to somehow prove that they need to just continue to brutalize themselves all season long, so that at the end of the year, some team that had some nice wins but played poor competition can take advantage of them.

 

[TennesseeGator]

I just disagree.

Same thing with FSU in the 90s.

Get up for two games a season and play trash the rest of it so that you're in much better shape than those two teams that have a pulse are.

Just annoying.

There's nothing wrong with teams in strong conferences, especially ones like Florida that play a powerhouse non-conference team EVERY YEAR, regardless, should have to somehow prove that they need to just continue to brutalize themselves all season long, so that at the end of the year, some team that had some nice wins but played poor competition can take advantage of them.

I get that. The deal with FSU compared to a USF...UCF... Houston...and etc (and yes a Memphis with or without my glasses on) is that FSU chose that route with plenty of other options back in the early 90's...late 80's or whenever that was. The others have to take what's presented to them.

But in turn FSU made the right investments into the football program while Memphis was focused on basketball and such. USF and UCF are still somewhat youngsters to D1 football. Houston on the other hand had Texas and OU putting a thump press on them. Houston is who I feel the worse for as far as the G5 schools are concerned.

 

[sadgator]

Remember when FSU lost to USF at home???

That was awesome.

 

[Nolec]

I just disagree.

Same thing with FSU in the 90s.

Get up for two games a season and play trash the rest of it so that you're in much better shape than those two teams that have a pulse are.

Just annoying.

There's nothing wrong with teams in strong conferences, especially ones like Florida that play a powerhouse non-conference team EVERY YEAR, regardless, should have to somehow prove that they need to just continue to brutalize themselves all season long, so that at the end of the year, some team that had some nice wins but played poor competition can take advantage of them.

Since FSU averaged a top 20 SOS per Sagarin in the 90's and then top 10 SOS the next 5 yrs, I just wonder about your definition of " teams with a pulse" UF is currently predicted to play a SOS in the 50's this yr. and FSU in the top 5-10 range.

 

[PacoGator19]

Since FSU averaged a top 20 SOS per Sagarin in the 90's and then top 10 SOS the next 5 yrs, I just wonder about your definition of " teams with a pulse" UF is currently predicted to play a SOS in the 50's this yr. and FSU in the top 5-10 range.

FSU plays in a crappy conference. When is the last time UF had an SOS in the 50s?

 

[Nolebra Kai]

FSU plays in a crappy conference. When is the last time UF had an SOS in the 50s?

UF plays in the SEC East. Spare me the crap conference part. You’ve gone under .500 two of the last five years.

We’ve never been afraid to play anyone OOC the last 40 years. You guys on the other hand never play anyone.

We built a brand playing who ever, when ever. It’s why we are more respected nation wide and have been since the 80s.

 

[sadgator]

UF plays in the SEC East. Spare me the crap conference part. You’ve gone under .500 two of the last five years.

We’ve never been afraid to play anyone OOC the last 40 years. You guys on the other hand never play anyone.

We built a brand playing who ever, when ever. It’s why we are more respected nation wide and have been since the 80s.

The truth is somewhere in the middle...

sadgator gives FSU a ton of props for the balls they show in going out of conference (i.e. Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Alabama, etc). It is very impressive, and our admin just does not have the balls to do that same...Our non conference schedule is shameful...and on the rare occasion that we play a team like Miami or Michigan, they kick our asses.

That said, if FSU played in the SEC, they wouldn’t have had nearly close to the National success they have had over the past few decades. Bash the current SECE all you want, but the fact that Florida has won 3 titles since ‘96 and has had as much conference success as it has is more impressive than almost any other P5 team in the Nation. Our western division slate always is bitch, and we are always a target in conference.

You are right that our recent 2 losing seasons are not helpful to our cause, but hopefully that garbage is over now that we have a competent coach...we’ll see.

 

[TennesseeGator]

UF plays in the SEC East. Spare me the crap conference part. You’ve gone under .500 two of the last five years.

We’ve never been afraid to play anyone OOC the last 40 years. You guys on the other hand never play anyone.

We built a brand playing who ever, when ever. It’s why we are more respected nation wide and have been since the 80s.

Since we are talking about the 1990's and who and what FSU did...and throw in the SEC East...how well would it have went for FSU playing both UT and UF every year in the 90's? Sure they would have had the occasional year they would have beat both teams but it would not have been a consistent every year thing. 1996 and 1998 post season Title games proved that. Add in playing one or two of the annual SEC West opponents plus a conference title game.

I mean since we are moving goal posts from the 90's schedule to the current state of the SEC East.

 

[footnfan1]

I wish UF had scheduled UCF. Darn it. To UF's credit, they are actually leaving Gainesville for a OOC game, well done.

 

[Nolec]

Since we are talking about the 1990's and who and what FSU did...and throw in the SEC East...how well would it have went for FSU playing both UT and UF every year in the 90's? Sure they would have had the occasional year they would have beat both teams but it would not have been a consistent every year thing. 1996 and 1998 post season Title games proved that. Add in playing one or two of the annual SEC West opponents plus a conference title game.

I mean since we are moving goal posts from the 90's schedule to the current state of the SEC East.

FSU did play UF 12 times in the 90's and I'm told those were SOS's glory years. FSU went 7-4-1. Instead of a weaker UT matchup, Noles played Miami each yr. and neither team was ever ranked worse than 13th. Noles went 6-4. That's why the strength of schedule was top 20.

 

[instaGATOR]

Remember when FSU lost to USF at home???

That was awesome.

2017 FSUcks 3 - 35 @ BC 7-6

2016 FSUcks 35 - 37 NCa in Tallycrappy

2015 FSUcks 16 - 22 @ GaTech (3-9)
2015 FSUcks 24 - 38 Houston

2012 FSUcks 16 - 17 @ NCSt

2011 FSUcks 30 - 35 @ Wake Forest (6-7)

2010 FSUcks 24 - 28 @ NCSt
2010 FSUcks 35 - 37 NCa a week later in Tallycrappy

2009 FSUcks 7 - 17 USF, by double-digits in Tallycrappy

2008 FSUcks 3 - 12 Wake Forest in Tallycrappy

But my all time favorite criminole loss (outside of 52-20), was this one:
1989 10-2 FSUcks 26 - 30 Sourhern Mississippi (5-6) in Jacksonville.....

PS
Speaking of significant South Florida wins, 2 years after beating FSUcks:
2011 USF 23 - 20 @ Neutered Lame
So while the Bulls are not a P-5, it's not like they've never beaten a P-5 team...

 

[instaGATOR]

I wish UF had scheduled UCF. Darn it. To UF's credit, they are actually leaving Gainesville for a OOC game, well done.

You moron types always like to forget or brush over that UF plays OoC FSUcks to end every season - home/away, the week before the SEC-C game is played.

When is the last time (never) that one of you chumps played LSU, TN, UGA in the same season? UF does so every year, plus SCa and Mizzou are not exactly joke games.

 

[TennesseeGator]

FSU did play UF 12 times in the 90's and I'm told those were SOS's glory years. FSU went 7-4-1. Instead of a weaker UT matchup, Noles played Miami each yr. and neither team was ever ranked worse than 13th. Noles went 6-4. That's why the strength of schedule was top 20.

We aren't moving it to "instead of UT we played..." Let's say you were in the SEC East of the 90's. Played UT, UF, occasionally Bama during the Stalling days and later Shaun Alexander with a bad coach but good talent. The occasional Baby Bowden AU teams. And still played Miami.

Would the path been as simple? Would FSU have won 2 titles in that span?

You just rattled off 5 games you didn't win playing an SEC East opponent. Add in the 98 loss to UT and that 6 games FSU didn't win. I don't feel like looking up old stats but did y'all lose 5 games and tie 1 against ACC competition back in the 90's?

And was UT honestly"weaker" compared to Miami from 95-99?

 

[sadgator]

The occasional Baby Bowden AU teams.

sadgator’s favorite broadcast television sign of the 90’s...

Child
Bowden
Sucks

 

[Nolec]

We aren't moving it to "instead of UT we played..." Let's say you were in the SEC East of the 90's. Played UT, UF, occasionally Bama during the Stalling days and later Shaun Alexander with a bad coach but good talent. The occasional Baby Bowden AU teams. And still played Miami.

Would the path been as simple? Would FSU have won 2 titles in that span?

You just rattled off 5 games you didn't win playing an SEC East opponent. Add in the 98 loss to UT and that 6 games FSU didn't win. I don't feel like looking up old stats but did y'all lose 5 games and tie 1 against ACC competition back in the 90's?

And was UT honestly"weaker" compared to Miami from 95-99?

We aren't moving it to "instead of UT we played..." Let's say you were in the SEC East of the 90's. Played UT, UF, occasionally Bama during the Stalling days and later Shaun Alexander with a bad coach but good talent. The occasional Baby Bowden AU teams. And still played Miami.

Would the path been as simple? Would FSU have won 2 titles in that span?

You just rattled off 5 games you didn't win playing an SEC East opponent. Add in the 98 loss to UT and that 6 games FSU didn't win. I don't feel like looking up old stats but did y'all lose 5 games and tie 1 against ACC competition back in the 90's?

And was UT honestly"weaker" compared to Miami from 95-99?

You asked how FSU would fare with UF and UT on the schedule. UF was on the schedule and FSU did better vs them than UT did. Miami was also on FSU's schedule and you can only extrapolate that the Noles would have played UT similarly to Miami since Miami was ranked higher than UT on avg. through the 90's.
Throughout the 90's FSU avg. a top 20 SOS. Largely since UF, Miami and a top bowl gave 3 very top ranked opponents.

 

[instaGATOR]

FSU's killer 1990 schedules:

1990 -- In Depends
D2 GaSo
Cincy 1-10
Memp 4-6-1
Tulane 4-7
ECa 5-6
--- 5 losers
VaTech 6-5
SCa 6-5 -- In Depends
With some nice timing on the 2 SECw opponents:
LSU 5-6
AU 8-3-1

1991 -- In Depends
D2 MTNSt
Tulane 1-10
UL 2-9
SCa 3-6-2 -- In Depends
VaTech 5-6
LSU 5-6 -- caught then in a rare slump.
--- 6 losers
W.Mich 6-5

1992 -- Joined the All Cupcake Conf, ACC-C
Duke 2-9
Tulane 2-9
Mary 3-8
Clem 5-6
--- 4 losers
Va 7-4

1993 -- ACC-C
WF 2-9
Mary 2-9
Duke 3-8
GaTech 5-6
Kan 5-7
--- 5 losers
Va 7-5
NCSt 7-5

And that why Blobby went to the ACC instead of the killer defense SEC.
Even the SEC teams with average to below W/L records can still beat you up physically.
==========

UF's occasional weaker 2018 SoS, comparatively speaking... (using the 2017 W/L)
CharSo 6-5 -- FCS, Southern Conf.
Idaho 4-8 (rescheduled do to Hurricane cancel)
ColoSt 7-6 (rescheduled do to another Hurricane cancel)
FSUcks 7-6
--- only 3 losers
Tn 4-8
VU 5-7
UK 7-6
Mizz 7-6
SCa 9-4
MsSt 9-4
LSU 9-4
UGA 13-2

As weak as it is supposedly, only 3 teams with 2017 losing records, with none below 4 wins.

 

[Nolec]

FSU's killer 1990 schedules:

1990 -- In Depends
D2 GaSo
Cincy 1-10
Memp 4-6-1
Tulane 4-7
ECa 5-6
--- 5 losers
VaTech 6-5
SCa 6-5 -- In Depends
With some nice timing on the 2 SECw opponents:
LSU 5-6
AU 8-3-1

1991 -- In Depends
D2 MTNSt
Tulane 1-10
UL 2-9
SCa 3-6-2 -- In Depends
VaTech 5-6
LSU 5-6 -- caught then in a rare slump.
--- 6 losers
W.Mich 6-5

1992 -- Joined the All Cupcake Conf, ACC-C
Duke 2-9
Tulane 2-9
Mary 3-8
Clem 5-6
--- 4 losers
Va 7-4

1993 -- ACC-C
WF 2-9
Mary 2-9
Duke 3-8
GaTech 5-6
Kan 5-7
--- 5 losers
Va 7-5
NCSt 7-5

And that why Blobby went to the ACC instead of the killer defense SEC.
Even the SEC teams with average to below W/L records can still beat you up physically.
==========

UF's occasional weaker 2018 SoS, comparatively speaking... (using the 2017 W/L)
CharSo 6-5 -- FCS, Southern Conf.
Idaho 4-8 (rescheduled do to Hurricane cancel)
ColoSt 7-6 (rescheduled do to another Hurricane cancel)
FSUcks 7-6
--- only 3 losers
Tn 4-8
VU 5-7
UK 7-6
Mizz 7-6
SCa 9-4
MsSt 9-4
LSU 9-4
UGA 13-2

As weak as it is supposedly, only 3 teams with 2017 losing records, with none below 4 wins.

What you have shown is that in addition to beating the Neb, OSU, Mich, UF and UM 90's highly ranked teams , the Noles dominated the remainder of their schedule. OK--- thanks.

 

[instaGATOR]

What you have shown is that in addition to beating the Neb, OSU, Mich, UF and UM 90's highly ranked teams , the Noles dominated the remainder of their usual chump dominated schedule. OK--- thanks.

Fixed that for ya...

Every single year UF plays Tn - LSU - UGA - FSU - SCa - Mizzou - and for the next 2 years, MsSt home & away. While VU and UK were 12-13 combined last year, not 3-19 combined like some of FSUcks opponents.

 

[Nolec]

Fixed that for ya...

Every single year UF plays Tn - LSU - UGA - FSU - SCa - Mizzou - and for the next 2 years, MsSt home & away. While VU and UK were 12-13 combined last year, not 3-19 combined like some of FSUcks opponents.

It is not my contention that UF has not had a quality SOS in the past, it was usually great. In post # 9 the poster claimed FSU had only 2 quality opponents/ yr. in the 90's. I provided evidence to the contrary. Recently the Noles SOS has not been superior ( no thanks to UF) and the final 2017 SOS for FSU was # 22 while UF's SOS was # 39. This yr. the pre-season SOS has Noles top 5 and UF near 50th.

 

[sadgator]

Remember in the late 90’s when people thought Virginia Tech was a good program...

Oh man, has there ever been a bigger fraud/pretender program in all of college football? Probably the biggest one in sadgator’s life. Just throwing it out there...FSU was SO lucky to play them in ‘99...just sayin’.

 

[PlutoDroid]

I'l give FSU credit for traveling to ND, USC, and Michigan, while playing the likes of Alabama on a neutral field.

What I have wanted to see is Florida challenging themselves , but FSU had to schedule those games because they were independent in the early 90s.

You can scoff at Florida's OOC, but remember the ACC has Clemson, Miami, FSU and sometimes VT or Louisville. The SEC that Florida has to play consists of LSU, Georgia and Tennessee. In the days before conference expansion ,we also had to play a conference title game and Auburn if we ever wanted a sniff at the N.C.

The SEC was the flag bearer for C.C.Gs.

 

[TennesseeGator]

You asked how FSU would fare with UF and UT on the schedule. UF was on the schedule and FSU did better vs them than UT did. Miami was also on FSU's schedule and you can only extrapolate that the Noles would have played UT similarly to Miami since Miami was ranked higher than UT on avg. through the 90's.
Throughout the 90's FSU avg. a top 20 SOS. Largely since UF, Miami and a top bowl gave 3 very top ranked opponents.

My debate isn't what FSU's schedule was ranked. My debate isn't what UM and UT were ranked.

My debate is you are comparing the modern day SEC East to the SEC East of the 90's which featured 2 teams that averaged a consistent top ten ranking or at worst a top 20 ranking. A conference division that won two national titles during this time span.

As stated FSU was 7-5-1 against this division.

Was did FSU lose 5 games and tie 1 game during the entire ACC during this time span.

On another topic what was UT average ranking vs Miami from 95-99?

And it's not always a guarantee that FSU would have beat UT because UF beat UT during a season and FSU beat UF that same season. So the times UF beat FSU in the same season that FSU beat UM that it's guaranteed UF would have beat Miami?

I'm not debating that FSU would have had a winning record vs UT during the 90's. I seriously doubt FSU would have went 9-1 vs UT during the 90's.

Did FSU lose 5 games and tie 1 game against the ACC during the 90's?

The original comment made by @Dannygator1989 was that FSU only had to get ready for 2 big games a year. He was basically comparing the 90's version of the ACC to the current AAC. Not FSU's record vs UF and/or Miami during the 90's.

 

[TennesseeGator]

Remember in the late 90’s when people thought Virginia Tech was a good program...

Oh man, has there ever been a bigger fraud/pretender program in all of college football? Probably the biggest one in sadgator’s life. Just throwing it out there...FSU was SO lucky to play them in ‘99...just sayin’.

Well in fairness they had basically the model at QB what numerous current college teams are hoping for in a QB. They were ahead of their time but could never capitalize on it.

Sometimes one player with a little bit of supporting cast is all it takes to win big. Hence why Gene Chizik has a title to his resume.

 

[PacoGator19]

I’m still waiting for the FSU homer to show me when UF has had an SOS in the 50s??

 

[sadgator]

Not to get too far off topic, but speaking of easy conference schedules...the fourth happiest day of sadgator’s college football fan career was the day that Donna Shalala voluntarily and willingly gave up Miami’s Big East annual free pass to the National Title game. It is still, to this day, the most mind-blowing blunder sadgator can remember in his 30 + years of religiously following this sport. Whenever sadgator is having a bad day, he thinks of that day (and the day they knocked down the OB), and it makes him smile.

 

[Nolec]

I’m still waiting for the FSU homer to show me when UF has had an SOS in the 50s??

Reading comp is crucial. No one made any such claim. Read post #27 again.

 

[Dannygator1989]

Lol I mention that FSU played largely awful opponents in the 90s and they all lose their minds.

 

[GatorGray]

In the 90s, fsu started practicing for Miami in fall practice. After the Miami game (usually in mid October), they began practicing for UF. fsu players have admitted to this. What other P5 team has the luxury of doing this? Revisionist history doesn't change the fact that your schedule was hot trash.

 

[Nolec]

Lol I mention that FSU played largely awful opponents in the 90s and they all lose their minds.

I can give you the facts, I can't make you understand them it seems.

 

[Nolec]

In the 90s, fsu started practicing for Miami in fall practice. After the Miami game (usually in mid October), they began practicing for UF. fsu players have admitted to this. What other P5 team has the luxury of doing this? Revisionist history doesn't change the fact that your schedule was hot trash.

Seems you do not comprehend the meaning of strength of schedule, unless top 20 is your definition of hot trash. Gator myths can't change the facts of an top 20 SOS throughout the 90's.

 

[TennesseeGator]

Seems you do not comprehend the meaning of strength of schedule, unless top 20 is your definition of hot trash. Gator myths can't change the facts of an top 20 SOS throughout the 90's.

Thats all good but did the Noles lose 5 games and one tie vs the ACC during that span? That's all I am asking.

 

[bradleygator]

I looked at the FSU schedules from '87 to 2000, generally their heyday, and it looked to me like they averaged about 4-6 top-20 teams a year, playing 12-game seasons, including the bowl. Some of those ACC teams were probably over-ranked at the time they played, but I don't think their schedule was so weak that it diminishes a pretty amazing run of top-5 finishes. The SEC was definitely a better, deeper league (I don't think FSU lost a game in the ACC for like 8 years), but both UF and FSU were at a level above their respective leagues in the '90s. When I was at UF, I only caught Spurrier's last two years, but I didn't sweat anyone in the SEC. LSU, Vanderbilt, whatever. I regarded them all as a bunch of nobodies that we would trample by 40-50 points.

 

[Nolec]

Thats all good but did the Noles lose 5 games and one tie vs the ACC during that span? That's all I am asking.


Had to look it up. No the Noles only lost 3 games to the ACC in the 90's. No ties.