Recruiting Panic??

[BringBackBonner]

You guys keep throwing Muschamp's recruiting under the bus, but it was the NFL defense that he left behind that got McElwain to Atlanta last year. It certainly wasn't an offense that was 102nd in average yards per play in 2015 compared to 94th in 2014.

I think this staff is going to improve the offensive side of the ball if they can figure out the OL, but they are going to need to do so in a hurry because they are doing just as bad recruiting on defense as Muschamp did on offense, which is extremely concerning.

 

[SKSnole]

Nobody said Muschamp couldn't recruit. What has been said is he did a terrible job recruiting and developing players on the offensive side of the ball.

Obviously the latter is true. You don't finish outside of the top 90 in Total Offense for 4 straight years because the coach is doing a great job. The former is just demonstrably false though. I just looked at your offensive depth chart for your 2014 opener and it was literally chock-full of Rivals 100 and Rivals 250 members.

Rivals 100
Jeff Driskel
Kelvin Taylor
DJ Humphries
Chaz Green
Demarcus Robinson
Alvin Bailey
Treon Harris
Andre Debose

Rivals 250
Matt Jones
Mack Brown
Trip Thurman
Quinton Dunbar
Ahmad Fulwood
Latroy Pittman

Guys like Green and Debose were holdovers from Meyer, but the majority of the above were Muschamp recruits. 14 of your offensive 2 deep in Muschamp's last season were Rivals 250 members coming out of high school.

 

[Countygator]

Obviously the latter is true. You don't finish outside of the top 90 in Total Offense for 4 straight years because the coach is doing a great job. The former is just demonstrably false though. I just looked at your offensive depth chart for your 2014 opener and it was literally chock-full of Rivals 100 and Rivals 250 members.

Rivals 100
Jeff Driskel
Kelvin Taylor
DJ Humphries
Chaz Green
Demarcus Robinson
Alvin Bailey
Treon Harris
Andre Debose

Rivals 250
Matt Jones
Mack Brown
Trip Thurman
Quinton Dunbar
Ahmad Fulwood
Latroy Pittman

Guys like Green and Debose were holdovers from Meyer, but the majority of the above were Muschamp recruits. 14 of your offensive 2 deep in Muschamp's last season were Rivals 250 members coming out of high school.

I think what Paco meant, is his offensive recruiting had no balance. Remember he left the current staff with 6 scholly offensive lineman...

 

[Michi-Gator]

I think what Paco meant, is his offensive recruiting had no balance. Remember he left the current staff with 6 scholly offensive lineman...

Yes, for example the 4 OL total in his first two classes for a guy who didn't realize the forward pass was legal

 

[Michi-Gator]

I will go ahead and throw out the lofty expectations. No not next year because it isn't long enough to bring in his style of players just yet. He has to balance out Muschamps imbalances. If he wins 9 games next season, By year three I expect 11 wins and a top tier bowl.

There...happy?

You will be disappointed in 2017, we will not win 11 that year.

 

[MDM9093]

You guys keep throwing Muschamp's recruiting under the bus, but it was the NFL defense that he left behind that got McElwain to Atlanta last year. It certainly wasn't an offense that was 102nd in average yards per play in 2015 compared to 94th in 2014.

I think this staff is going to improve the offensive side of the ball if they can figure out the OL, but they are going to need to do so in a hurry because they are doing just as bad recruiting on defense as Muschamp did on offense, which is extremely concerning.

This guy get its.

 

[SKSnole]

I think what Paco meant, is his offensive recruiting had no balance. Remember he left the current staff with 6 scholly offensive lineman...

It would be one thing if that were true, but it's not. McElwain having 6 scholarship OL for a Spring Game in April and Muschamp leaving him with 6 scholarship OL when he was fired in November isn't really the same thing. Nolan Kelleher and Drew Sarvary were medically DQ'd. DJ Humphries and Tyler Moore both left early for the Draft. Rod Johnson suffered a career ending injury. All of those things occurred after Muschamp's firing.

 

[PacoGator19]

Muschump didn't recruit/develop the oline or the QB position well at all. Period. That can't be argued. That's just a fact.

 

[SKSnole]

Muschump didn't recruit/develop the oline or the QB position well at all. Period. That can't be argued. That's just a fact.

Why do you keep using the word "recruit"? He didn't recruit the QB position well? He signed Driskel, Brissett, and Grier. All of those guys were big time recruits. Obviously he didn't develop them or put them in a position to succeed. I don't think anyone is disputing that. Signing 3 Rivals 100 QB's in 4 years is recruiting pretty dang well though.

 

[TNole902]

Why do you keep using the word "recruit"? He didn't recruit the QB position well? He signed Driskel, Brissett, and Grier. All of those guys were big time recruits. Obviously he didn't develop them or put them in a position to succeed. I don't think anyone is disputing that. Signing 3 Rivals 100 QB's in 4 years is recruiting pretty dang well though.

Muschamp never had a chance. In all likelihood, his first OC was forced on him. Then he had no margin for error in his second selection and he made an error. There are a whole lot of Muschamp Offensive recruits cashing NFL paychecks right now. Muschamp was a lot closer to getting it right than Gator fans will ever give him credit for...Two NFL QB's an NFL RB...a couple of NFL WR's....a slew of OL all on the same Offensive team. Muschamp recruited O better than McElwain is recruiting defense right now.

 

[PacoGator19]

Muschamp never had a chance. In all likelihood, his first OC was forced on him. Then he had no margin for error in his second selection and he made an error. There are a whole lot of Muschamp Offensive recruits cashing NFL paychecks right now. Muschamp was a lot closer to getting it right than Gator fans will ever give him credit for...Two NFL QB's an NFL RB...a couple of NFL WR's....a slew of OL all on the same Offensive team. Muschamp recruited O better than McElwain is recruiting defense right now.

Hilarious on so many levels. Muschcamp was close to getting right? In what universe was that?

He never had a chance? Really? He went 4-8 and lost to Georgia Southern and he was allowed to come back for another year and run the program a little bit further into the ground. He had plenty of chances.

 

[PacoGator19]

Why do you keep using the word "recruit"? He didn't recruit the QB position well? He signed Driskel, Brissett, and Grier. All of those guys were big time recruits. Obviously he didn't develop them or put them in a position to succeed. I don't think anyone is disputing that. Signing 3 Rivals 100 QB's in 4 years is recruiting pretty dang well though.

You did see I used the word "develop" right? Yes he signed Brissett and Driskel. Neither one of them finished their careers at UF and both just got drafted. If that isn't an indictment on just how bad Muschamp's philosophy on offense was then I don't know what is.

In fact has that ever even happened before?Two QBs getting recruited in the same recruiting class only to transfer and then get drafted. I bet that has never happened before. That is really how bad Muschump was.

 

[TennesseeGator]

You guys keep throwing Muschamp's recruiting under the bus, but it was the NFL defense that he left behind that got McElwain to Atlanta last year. It certainly wasn't an offense that was 102nd in average yards per play in 2015 compared to 94th in 2014.

I think this staff is going to improve the offensive side of the ball if they can figure out the OL, but they are going to need to do so in a hurry because they are doing just as bad recruiting on defense as Muschamp did on offense, which is extremely concerning.

I throw his recruiting under the bus for two reasons
1. Character. The stories of shooting at pregnant girlfriends. Setting up robberies at the local weed supplier. Failed drug tests before big division rivalry games. Laying down in Bowl games. The list goes on.

2. Imbalance. WR and OL standout the most. Mc's first spring game with 6 scholly OL. Who has that?

 

[SKSnole]

You did see I used the word "develop" right? Yes he signed Brissett and Driskel. Neither one of them finished their careers at UF and both just got drafted. If that isn't an indictment on just how bad Muschamp's philosophy on offense was then I don't know what is.

In fact has that ever even happened before?Two QBs getting recruited in the same recruiting class only to transfer and then get drafted. I bet that has never happened before. That is really how bad Muschump was.

You said "recruit/develop". No one is arguing that the offense didn't develop under Muschamp. He clearly recruited at an elite level though. Now TG is saying he didn't recruit WR. What!? You guys just hate Muschamp and want to dog on him over any and everything. His recruiting was awesome at UF. He just didn't do anything with them once they got there. Similar to Zook.

 

[PacoGator19]

You said "recruit/develop". No one is arguing that the offense didn't develop under Muschamp. He clearly recruited at an elite level though. Now TG is saying he didn't recruit WR. What!? You guys just hate Muschamp and want to dog on him over any and everything. His recruiting was awesome at UF. He just didn't do anything with them once they got there. Similar to Zook.

He was actually worse than Zook. No I don't believe he recruited great on the offensive side of the ball. He recruited some very good offensive players here and there but not enough quantity/depth wise and his offensive recruiting was getting worse and worse the longer he stayed at UF.

 

[kellylexy]

You guys keep throwing Muschamp's recruiting under the bus, but it was the NFL defense that he left behind that got McElwain to Atlanta last year. It certainly wasn't an offense that was 102nd in average yards per play in 2015 compared to 94th in 2014.

I think this staff is going to improve the offensive side of the ball if they can figure out the OL, but they are going to need to do so in a hurry because they are doing just as bad recruiting on defense as Muschamp did on offense, which is extremely concerning.

I throw his recruiting under the bus for two reasons
1. Character. The stories of shooting at pregnant girlfriends. Setting up robberies at the local weed supplier. Failed drug tests before big division rivalry games. Laying down in Bowl games. The list goes on.

2. Imbalance. WR and OL standout the most. Mc's first spring game with 6 scholly OL. Who has that?

TG, maybe your points are correct, but I think BBB raises a good point about the success of the team last year goes to the outstanding defense Muschamp recruited/developed versus the offense not getting much traction.

 

[TNole902]

Hilarious on so many levels. Muschcamp was close to getting right? In what universe was that?

He never had a chance? Really? He went 4-8 and lost to Georgia Southern and he was allowed to come back for another year and run the program a little bit further into the ground. He had plenty of chances.

He never had a chance b/c he had an OC forced on him and then made a poor selection for his second. You rarely recover from an OC change in your first year, besides the fact that it almost never happens. Then choosing Pease was the deathknell. His fate was sealed a year after he was hired.

 

[oozie7]

Muschamp's issue was one I've been saying for years...depth. A lot of guys in our starting 22 could play with anybody, but the depth after that sucked. And that's why we couldn't compete with a lot of teams even though a lot of our starters are/were getting drafted in the NFL.

What doomed him is that he never could settle on an offensive philosophy. He inherited a roster full of spread players and insisted we run a downhill, power offense when he probably would have been better off slowly transitioning to that type. Then Weis screwed us over leaving when he did and he panicked on the next hire. So we basically spent 3 years recruiting for this power offense he wanted to run then in year 4 we decide to switch and go spread.

The odd thing all the while is that our decisions on who to start/recruit never matched what we were trying to run. For example under the offense Muschamp wanted to run Brissett should have been his QB but instead he goes with a guy who can't stand in the pocket and make throws and is better off running some kind of read option. Then except for Robinson our WR's were jitterbug types who needed to play in space, so they were useless to us close to the line of scrimmage trying to block for a power game, and on and on. Or recruiting a guy like DJ Humphries who came here at like 260 with great feet and who could play in space and ask him to get in a 3-point stance and power block, why? We recruited a decent amount of talent, we just didn't know how to use them for sh*t.

 

[PacoGator19]

He never had a chance b/c he had an OC forced on him and then made a poor selection for his second. You rarely recover from an OC change in your first year, besides the fact that it almost never happens. Then choosing Pease was the deathknell. His fate was sealed a year after he was hired.

The best offense Muschamp had while at UF was with Weis as his OC.

 

[PacoGator19]

Muschamp's issue was one I've been saying for years...depth. A lot of guys in our starting 22 could play with anybody, but the depth after that sucked. And that's why we couldn't compete with a lot of teams even though a lot of our starters are/were getting drafted in the NFL.

What doomed him is that he never could settle on an offensive philosophy. He inherited a roster full of spread players and insisted we run a downhill, power offense when he probably would have been better off slowly transitioning to that type. Then Weis screwed us over leaving when he did and he panicked on the next hire. So we basically spent 3 years recruiting for this power offense he wanted to run then in year 4 we decide to switch and go spread.

The odd thing all the while is that our decisions on who to start/recruit never matched what we were trying to run. For example under the offense Muschamp wanted to run Brissett should have been his QB but instead he goes with a guy who can't stand in the pocket and make throws and is better off running some kind of read option. Then except for Robinson our WR's were jitterbug types who needed to play in space, so they were useless to us close to the line of scrimmage trying to block for a power game, and on and on. Or recruiting a guy like DJ Humphries who came here at like 260 with great feet and who could play in space and ask him to get in a 3-point stance and power block, why? We recruited a decent amount of talent, we just didn't know how to use them for sh*t.

Agreed. It was poor offensive recruiting under Muschamp. He recruited some talented players but not players that fit his offense. Also they weren't developed properly and we had no depth on the offensive side of the ball.

The careers of Brissett and Driskel shows just how bad Muschamp was. Two guys that were highly recruited in the same year only to transfer and end up getting drafted in the NFL in the same year. Probably has never happened before. Muschamp should be embarrassed.

 

[bradleygator]

The best offense Muschamp had while at UF was with Weis as his OC.

With Brantley throwing. Once he went down, the offense was absolutely brutal. It was like Weiss just threw up his hands and said, "I don't have the guys to run what I want, so I'm not even going to try."
That's what started my dislike for Muschamp. It was so stubborn and arrogant to think that you can just throw away games until you get your stuff together.

 

[PacoGator19]

With Brantley throwing. Once he went down, the offense was absolutely brutal. It was like Weiss just threw up his hands and said, "I don't have the guys to run what I want, so I'm not even going to try."
That's what started my dislike for Muschamp. It was so stubborn and arrogant to think that you can just throw away games until you get your stuff together.

Correct but Brantley never even got drafted. On the other hand Muschamp recruited 2 QBs in Driskel and Brissett that both got picked in the NFL draft but yet Muschamp couldn't do anything with them to the point they both even transferred out. Again Muschamp should be embarrassed.

 

[Michi-Gator]

The best offense Muschamp had while at UF was with Weis as his OC.

With Meyer's players running the wrong system. Let that tell how bad Chump was on offense.

 

[TennesseeGator]

You said "recruit/develop". No one is arguing that the offense didn't develop under Muschamp. He clearly recruited at an elite level though. Now TG is saying he didn't recruit WR. What!? You guys just hate Muschamp and want to dog on him over any and everything. His recruiting was awesome at UF. He just didn't do anything with them once they got there. Similar to Zook.

What great WR's did Muschamp recruit? Muschamp would have passed on players like Callaway.

What great WR's did he recruit?
DeMarcus IfailedFourDrugTestAndHadToAttendRehab Robinson?
Ryan Sousa who will likely be a role player at the mighty Troy?
Ahmad OneGameWonder Fulwood
Chris Thompson & Alvin Bailey?
LaTory Pittman and the Tallahassee Lincoln kid. What did they combine for 6 receptions and 32 yards?

He recruited and used Brandon Powell as a RB.

I give him a B- for Robinson and the same for Brandon Powell.
The rest average to the grade of low C and that is being kind.

 

[TennesseeGator]

This is news, who forced Weis on Muschamp? I thought that was Muschamps guy?

And paniced on the next hire. He had his sights set on Please from the get go. Don't forget Bama was after Pease as well.

Roper wasn't a bad hire but by that time it was already too late. A true day late and dollar short.

 

[TennesseeGator]

TG, maybe your points are correct, but I think BBB raises a good point about the success of the team last year goes to the outstanding defense Muschamp recruited/developed versus the offense not getting much traction.

I can't give all the credit to Muschamps recruiting to the success of last year. Who does the offense not getting much traction fall on? Mc and Nuss? Why can't some of the defense credit go towards the current staff?

 

[instaGATOR]

Two kinds of recruiting for a HBC, Players - Coaching Staff.
Without both in quality and matching systems, you will struggle vs SEC teams.
Muschamp, in 4 years, had 3 different OC and 4 different WR coaches, and that's just the tip of his fiasco staffing iceberg.
===============

2016 DE Jachai Polite 6-2 259 Fr - Daytona Beach, FL
The recruiting services rate him as barely a 4 star recruit.
However, Florida HS #1 OT (committed to Tenn) says that Polite is way better/tougher than 5 star Bryan Cowart, and he's gone against both on the field.
Note: Cowart has not lived up to his recruit rankings while at AU, plus he was just arrested for weed.

March 2015 - Border-line 4 star J.Polite was voted the MVP of a Nike 'Opening' Regional Camp. * Trust the Gator coaches to know who to bring in to compete at UF!

 

[TennesseeGator]

Obviously the latter is true. You don't finish outside of the top 90 in Total Offense for 4 straight years because the coach is doing a great job. The former is just demonstrably false though. I just looked at your offensive depth chart for your 2014 opener and it was literally chock-full of Rivals 100 and Rivals 250 members.

Rivals 100
Jeff Driskel
Kelvin Taylor
Treon Harris
.

Right there. I don't think anybody ever questioned Muschamps ability to attract and sign the star players and finished with a pretty ranking. But look at that. He always had the philosophy of being a downhill running team. Kelvin Taylor was not the downhill running power back. Yes I understand Kelvin was the son of a legend and Kelvin was indeed a good RB. However Kelvin was a complimentary RB for a Muschamp type philosophy. Let's remember he recruited D. Henry as a LB.

Then the next two. Two QB's that should be in a spread type system. Not a power attack system. Champ wanted to be a Bama type team, not an Auburn type. When under Saban has he started a dual threat QB.

Neither of these QB's were pocket passers who could run. They are and always will be players who use their athletic ability to make plays.

 

[MJWilliamson]

You guys keep throwing Muschamp's recruiting under the bus, but it was the NFL defense that he left behind that got McElwain to Atlanta last year. It certainly wasn't an offense that was 102nd in average yards per play in 2015 compared to 94th in 2014.

Try and be a little intellectually honest. The offense that helped Florida get to Atlanta was the one with Grier.

I think this staff is going to improve the offensive side of the ball if they can figure out the OL, but they are going to need to do so in a hurry because they are doing just as bad recruiting on defense as Muschamp did on offense, which is extremely concerning.

You are really drawing these kinds of conclusions...in May?

 

[TNole902]

I was never impressed with D Henry as a RB. He went to the ideal place for him to succeed. I do not think he would have been nearly as successful at another school, like a Florida or AU. He is a guy who needs the OL to push for him....he is not quickfooted and needs that extra yard. Good for D Henry...it worked out and he is cashing an NFL paycheck, but I would not be in the least bit surprised to see him out of the league in 3 years or less.

 

[MJWilliamson]

I was never impressed with D Henry as a RB. He went to the ideal place for him to succeed. I do not think he would have been nearly as successful at another school, like a Florida or AU. He is a guy who needs the OL to push for him....he is not quickfooted and needs that extra yard. Good for D Henry...it worked out and he is cashing an NFL paycheck, but I would not be in the least bit surprised to see him out of the league in 3 years or less.

This is like saying that Tebow would have been less successful at UGA than he was at Florida and Matthew Stafford would have been less successful running the spread at Florida than running a pro-style offense at UGA.

 

[TNole902]

This is like saying that Tebow would have been less successful at UGA than he was at Florida and Matthew Stafford would have been less successful running the spread at Florida than running a pro-style offense at UGA.

And all would be true.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Thanks captain obvious. So, you were never "impressed" by your Daddy, Tim Tebow?

 

[BringBackBonner]

Try and be a little intellectually honest. The offense that helped Florida get to Atlanta was the one with Grier.



You are really drawing these kinds of conclusions...in May?

On the first point, Oozie has debunked the myth that the offense was playing very well with Grier. For clarification/reminder, we averaged 4.92 yards per play with Grier in the 4 SEC games in which he played. This was actually lower than the 5.01 yards per play we averaged in all SEC games. Both of these metrics would put us at 12th in the SEC; our offense was bad last year, Grier or not.

On the 2nd point, I am drawing that conclusion in May... after seeing his first two recruiting classes. CB and DT recruiting has been just as bad as QB and OL was for Muschamp, probably worse. Obviously, plenty of time to change our fortunes with this class, but I'm not betting on it with this group for sure.

 

[SKSnole]

You guys keep throwing Muschamp's recruiting under the bus, but it was the NFL defense that he left behind that got McElwain to Atlanta last year. It certainly wasn't an offense that was 102nd in average yards per play in 2015 compared to 94th in 2014.

I think this staff is going to improve the offensive side of the ball if they can figure out the OL, but they are going to need to do so in a hurry because they are doing just as bad recruiting on defense as Muschamp did on offense, which is extremely concerning.

To be fair, it is much easier to be good on defense than offense.

 

[TNole902]

Thanks captain obvious. So, you were never "impressed" by your Daddy, Tim Tebow?

As a QB who would do anything beyond the system he was in? no..I knew he had no chance of making it in the NFL and probably only 1 or 2 other programs in college he would have even made a dent. Percy Harvin was the guy who made Tebow elite. DC's were petrified of him, Rainey and Demps and kept their safeties well off of the line...often had a LB on their heels too...right place, right time. Not the first time it has happened and won't be the last.

 

[BringBackBonner]

It does make me happy that our rivals are still suffering from Post Tebow Stress Syndrome. It makes you say ridiculous things.

 

[Dannygator1989]

This thread is ridiculous.

And even though I've been drinking and intheorybshould be quite content.

But no, you people are ridiculous and frustrating.

It's May of 2016 and we are bemoaning both Muschamp AND Mac now? Why? WHHHHHYYYYY?

Dear lord.

 

[TNole902]

It does make me happy that our rivals are still suffering from Post Tebow Stress Syndrome. It makes you say ridiculous things.

Florida being better than FSU when Tebow was there would not have much to do with any of the points made. Did you really look at Tim Tebow at any time and think "elite NFL QB" ...how about even regular NFL player? Did you really see him fitting in at UGa? How about Alabama? He might not have been anything but a wildcat back had he actually picked Bama. No way he fit in with what Saban was trying to do. Is it inaccurate that Tebow would have struggled in other offenses? Tebow produced when UF had speed advantage on the edges, which was just about every team they faced. When UF didn't have that advantage, the offense struggled....look at the drop off in 2009 without Harvin. Still had Rainey...still had Demps. But struggled badly against the teams with decent D's like South Carolina, and looked like a high school offense against Bama and LSU.

Tebow is one of the greatest one on one QB's in the history of the game, but few offensive squads would have allowed him to isolate like the opportunities he had under Meyer.

I am not saying anything crazy...I have heard similar comments from many of your regular posters, like Oozie. It was a common theme from the NFL guys. This has nothing to do with FSU

 

[bradleygator]

Florida being better than FSU when Tebow was there would not have much to do with any of the points made. Did you really look at Tim Tebow at any time and think "elite NFL QB" ...how about even regular NFL player? Did you really see him fitting in at UGa? How about Alabama? He might not have been anything but a wildcat back had he actually picked Bama. No way he fit in with what Saban was trying to do. Is it inaccurate that Tebow would have struggled in other offenses? Tebow produced when UF had speed advantage on the edges, which was just about every team they faced. When UF didn't have that advantage, the offense struggled....look at the drop off in 2009 without Harvin. Still had Rainey...still had Demps. But struggled badly against the teams with decent D's like South Carolina, and looked like a high school offense against Bama and LSU.

Tebow is one of the greatest one on one QB's in the history of the game, but few offensive squads would have allowed him to isolate like the opportunities he had under Meyer.

I am not saying anything crazy...I have heard similar comments from many of your regular posters, like Oozie. It was a common theme from the NFL guys. This has nothing to do with FSU

Who was the last FSU qb to throw for 300 yards and win an NFL playoff game?

What were Percy Harvin's numbers in the 2008 SEC title game against 'Bama?

Josh McDaniels thought he was an NFL starter. But you probably know more about offense than him.