ADVERTISEMENT

Bama-F$U 2017

You're starting to sound like BONG. Repeating something enough times doesn't make it true. FSU went 34-4 and played in 3 straight title games from 1998-2000. Their SOS those years was #5, #11, and #11. FSU won the 1993 title and played 7 ranked teams that year. Anyone that thinks FSU was dominant in the 90's because they played a "Charmin soft schedule" is simply delusional.

The difference is, when SEC teams play, no matter how good they are, somebody has to lose, where, when ACC teams play, no matter how bad they are, somebody has to win.

You measure SOS on W/L by opponent, as if an ACC conference game, where both teams end up 1-1, is the same as an SEC game, where equally, both teams end up 1-1. What you manage to avoid discussing is the SEC being consistently the top rated conference, while the ACC manages most years to squeak ahead of the MAC for #7.
 
The difference is, when SEC teams play, no matter how good they are, somebody has to lose, where, when ACC teams play, no matter how bad they are, somebody has to win.

You measure SOS on W/L by opponent, as if an ACC conference game, where both teams end up 1-1, is the same as an SEC game, where equally, both teams end up 1-1. What you manage to avoid discussing is the SEC being consistently the top rated conference, while the ACC manages most years to squeak ahead of the MAC for #7.

Bragging about your neighbor's house again?
 
You should. Because the SEC is better than the ACC by almost any objective measure. The SEC is stronger that the ACC in most sports. The SEC members receive far more financial benefit than the ACC members.

The ACC has won women's soccer FSU, football FSU, basketball Duke and the college World Series UVA, all in the last year. I think we're doing just fine.
 
The ACC has won women's soccer FSU, football FSU, basketball Duke and the college World Series UVA, all in the last year. I think we're doing just fine.
Good for them. That is fewer than the NCs Florida has won in the last three years
 
For the third time, why are you trying to twist this into a SEC/ACC thing? You claimed that FSU played a "Charmin soft schedule" and then failed to provide any facts that supported that claim.

How could it not be a ACC/SEC analysis? If we are to claim that FSU plays a Charmin Soft Schedule, then we must provide some context.We must provide some facts. What better context than comparing the strongest football conference with one of the weakest? So why not compare the conference that FSU chose to join, the ACC, with the conference that FSU turned away from, the SEC. After all, THAT was part of the original point.

To review, the original point was me complimenting FSU on seeing the need to beef up what is usually a pretty pathetic schedule most years. That ANY ACC program that want to be taken seriously on a national stage has to do that, if they want some kind of benefit of the doubt when it comes to the playoff selection committee.

FSU was undefeated last year. Yet they were only seeded third. Behind at least one team with one loss. That is the context.

The point then morphed into a discussion of how FSU benefited from a Charmin Soft Schedule even when they were consistently good. A point that their own coach made not once, but twice.

SKNole, danoleman, hardliner and other FSU sychophants have to try and pretend that FSU has a legitimate schedule, past and present. But their analysis falls short.

Every objective measure of conference rankings usually has ACC down anywhere from 3rd best to 7th best. Every final top ten ranking, poast and present rarely includes more than one ACC program. These are the facts. These are the objective points.

FSU plays in the ACC. Of the top five football conferences, the ACC is one of the weakest. Hell, even the less sycophantic fans admit that.
 
Trust me dude, you'll be going in circles with MJ for days and he will keep posting arguments irrelevant to the original topic.

Only a sycophant of monumental proportions would say the final rankings and conference rankings are "argument irrelevant to the original topic."

High Marks for reinforcing the stereotype of stupid FSU fans though.
 
MJ, you're like the old guy that keeps blurting out things and people have to remind you what the subject it. You ignore it and keep rambling on and on about an argument you made up in your head. It's actually entertaining to see you squirm like this. Now go ahead and hit me with some of your best name calling. Lol
 
Context. Learn it. Don't brag about SEC football when your team is an afterthought.
We are aware that our team is an afterthought. What has that to do with the discussion at hand? The discussion was FSU football, and why they felt the need to bolster their schedule. What better way to bolster the schedule than schedule teams from the very best football conference?

Context indeed. Irony too.
 
MJ, you're like the old guy that keeps blurting out things and people have to remind you what the subject it. You ignore it and keep rambling on and on about an argument you made up in your head. It's actually entertaining to see you squirm like this. Now go ahead and hit me with some of your best name calling. Lol[

I am an old guy. But I am not delusional, as you claim. You are apparently a young guy. Which is not so bad. But you DO seem to have ADD problems.

The issue at hand is this; FSU felt the need to bolster their SOS. So what better way to do it, other than schedule another team from the best football conference in the nation?

That apparently bothers you in some strange way. Why that bothers you is obvious.
 
I am an old guy. But I am not delusional, as you claim. You are apparently a young guy. Which is not so bad. But you DO seem to have ADD problems.

The issue at hand is this; FSU felt the need to bolster their SOS. So what better way to do it, other than schedule another team from the best football conference in the nation?

That apparently bothers you in some strange way. Why that bothers you is obvious.


ADD?? That was weak man. You can do better than that. I'm not exactly young but I'm not old as you either. What are you?? 75??
 
Well, I have a 12 year old grandson that can make a more cogent argument that some of the ones you offer.
 
Well, I have a 12 year old grandson that can make a more cogent argument that some of the ones you offer.


Ya, I'm sure he can. I actually have a 12 year old son. I was thinking about sending him to a private college. Hey, what's the name of the one you graduated from in Iowa?? I want to do some research. Clearly that school is putting out some really smart guys.
 
The difference is, when SEC teams play, no matter how good they are, somebody has to lose, where, when ACC teams play, no matter how bad they are, somebody has to win.

You measure SOS on W/L by opponent, as if an ACC conference game, where both teams end up 1-1, is the same as an SEC game, where equally, both teams end up 1-1. What you manage to avoid discussing is the SEC being consistently the top rated conference, while the ACC manages most years to squeak ahead of the MAC for #7.

And, yet, during the time MJ was referring to FSU had more wins vs. teams that finished in the top 25 than any team in the SEC (and country for that matter). Doing that while playing a Charmin soft schedule is impossible. I'm sorry, but facts exist. Everything is not a matter of opinion. FSU played a weak schedule from 2011-2013. MJ tried to argue they also played a weak schedule in the 90's. He's wrong.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ktffan
And, yet, during the time MJ was referring to FSU had more wins vs. teams that finished in the top 25 than any team in the SEC (and country for that matter). Doing that while playing a Charmin soft schedule is impossible. I'm sorry, but facts exist. Everything is not a matter of opinion. FSU played a weak schedule from 2011-2013. MJ tried to argue they also played a weak schedule in the 90's. He's wrong.

Facts do exist.

So, how about you show references to these "facts" of yours?

Show me the proof of all these top 25 wins, and how FSU had more than any SEC team, and I'll retract. Fair?
 
Ya, I'm sure he can. I actually have a 12 year old son. I was thinking about sending him to a private college. Hey, what's the name of the one you graduated from in Iowa?? I want to do some research. Clearly that school is putting out some really smart guys.
It no longer exists.
 
And, yet, during the time MJ was referring to FSU had more wins vs. teams that finished in the top 25 than any team in the SEC (and country for that matter). .

From the time FSU chickened out and joined the ACC, through the ACC expansion if the early 2000s, FSU basically played a three game schedule every year. At best. They played Miami, they played Florida and they played in a bowl game. That is it. Noen of those are conference games. FSU played in the mediocre ACC during that period.

The ACC almost never put a team not named FSU in the final top ten. And they rarely put more than two or three in the top 25.

That is the definition of a Charmin Soft Schedule.

I compare it to a SEC schedule for context. The SEC never had fewer than two teams in the top ten over that period, and often had three. It was not uncommon to see half, or nearly half of the teams in the SEC finish in the top 25.
 
From the time FSU chickened out and joined the ACC, through the ACC expansion if the early 2000s, FSU basically played a three game schedule every year. At best. They played Miami, they played Florida and they played in a bowl game. That is it. Noen of those are conference games. FSU played in the mediocre ACC during that period.

The ACC almost never put a team not named FSU in the final top ten. And they rarely put more than two or three in the top 25.

That is the definition of a Charmin Soft Schedule.

I compare it to a SEC schedule for context. The SEC never had fewer than two teams in the top ten over that period, and often had three. It was not uncommon to see half, or nearly half of the teams in the SEC finish in the top 25.

If "top 10" is your metric of measuring a tough schedule, you might need to rethink your position on this.

From 92-99, all 12 SEC teams played a total of 118 opponents who finished top 10. That averages 1.96 for each team for each season. From 92-99, Florida State played 18 teams that finished top 10 which is 2.25 per year. Florida State's 18 top 10 opponents over that period was more than any SEC except Florida, who only had more because they regularly played an ACC team. However, using final rating fails to measure true top 10 teams because when you beat a team, they drop in the ratings. Florida State beat 58.3% of their "top 10" opponents, while the average SEC only best 16.0% of the same. If you consider that on top of those 18 teams, you have to consider that that 10 opponents Florida State beat who finished 11-15, teams would likely would have been top 10 if they hadn't played FSU, while the entire SEC only beat 26 of these teams. On the flip side, only one top 10 team FSU lost to would have likely been out of the top 10 had they not beaten FSU, while SEC teams lost to 67 teams who finished 6-10 and might have dropped from the top 10 with a loss. Looking at even this flawed metric, FSU's formula in the 90s gave them more "top 10" opponents than all SEC opponents but one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nolebra Kai
Are you seriously comparing FSU's schedule to the average of each team in the SEC? Seriously?
 
Are you seriously comparing FSU's schedule to the average of each team in the SEC? Seriously?

Me, yes. Since Florida State played more top 10 and more ranked teams and opponents won more than the average SEC team the question is why aren't you? In fact, what facts do you have to support your opinion? Maybe now would be the time to post those instead of giving us your perceptions.
 
bart-scott-can-t-wait-o.gif
 
Me, yes. Since Florida State played more top 10 and more ranked teams and opponents won more than the average SEC team the question is why aren't you? In fact, what facts do you have to support your opinion? Maybe now would be the time to post those instead of giving us your perceptions.
Why is this an analysis that an SEC schedule would have been a lot tougher for FSU, had FSU joined the SEC? Or said another way, FSU generally plays a charmin soft schedule, due mostly to a pathethic ACC matchups

That WAS the original premise. Or, at least, it was the second premise. The original premise is that FSU is smart to try and bolster their schedule by playing teams from the SEC. That the ACC gives FSU scant opportunity to have a credible schedule.

If you really want to do an analysis on one of the above points then compare the overall SEC with the overall ACC.
 
Last edited:
I don't know what all the fuss is, FSU beat the SEC's best team of the 90's, UF, more times than not (7-4-1) and went on to play in FIVE National Championship games from 1990-1999--winning twice. In fact, FSU's winning percentage vs the SEC in that span was 59% with a 9-6-1 record. Furthermore, FSU beat the following teams outside of the ACC:

BiG 10
1998 Ohio State (10-3)
1991 Michigan (10-2)

Big XII
1998 Texas A&M (11-3)
1994 Nebraska (11-1)
1993 Kansas (5-7)
1993 Nebraska (9-3)
1992 Texas A&M (10-2)

Pac 12
1998 USC (8-5)
1997 USC (6-5)

Big East
1999 Miami (9-4)
2000 Virginia Tech (11-1)
1998 Miami (9-3)
1997 Miami (5-6)
1996 Miami (9-3)
1995 Miami (8-3)
1993 Miami (9-3)
1991 Syracuse (10-2)
1991 Virginia Tech (5-6)

SEC
1999 Florida (9-4)
1998 Florida (10-2)
1996 Florida (12-1)
1994 Florida (10-2-1) (T)
1995 Florida (10-2-1)
1993 Florida (11-2)
1992 Florida (9-4)
1991 LSU (5-6)
1990 LSU (5-6)
1990 Florida (9-2)

The SEC is a better conference for football than the ACC, always has been. Despite playing in the abysmal ACC, FSU played a plethora of quality football teams from various conferences, to include the SEC to amass an amazing stretch of top 4 finishes, national championship appearances/wins and Heisman trophy winners. It happened. It's a fact. Why are we still discussing this?
 
I have no problem with saying FSU had some very, very good teams in the 90s. They did. I have no problem with FSU winning those two titles with those teams. Those two teams deserved it, the argument about ND for the first title not with standing.

My contention is that FSU benefited from having such easy conference schedule (a Charmin soft schedule, if you will). But that also hurt them. Witness the 2-3 record in national title games.

FSU might well have won 2 national titles during that period had they played in the SEC. But they would not have had such an easy path.

BTW, a good portion of those tough OOC games were in bowl games.
 
I don't know what all the fuss is, FSU beat the SEC's best team of the 90's, UF, more times than not (7-4-1) and went on to play in FIVE National Championship games from 1990-1999--winning twice. In fact, FSU's winning percentage vs the SEC in that span was 59% with a 9-6-1 record. Furthermore, FSU beat the following teams outside of the ACC:

BiG 10
1998 Ohio State (10-3)
1991 Michigan (10-2)

Big XII
1998 Texas A&M (11-3)
1994 Nebraska (11-1)
1993 Kansas (5-7)
1993 Nebraska (9-3)
1992 Texas A&M (10-2)

Pac 12
1998 USC (8-5)
1997 USC (6-5)

Big East
1999 Miami (9-4)
2000 Virginia Tech (11-1)
1998 Miami (9-3)
1997 Miami (5-6)
1996 Miami (9-3)
1995 Miami (8-3)
1993 Miami (9-3)
1991 Syracuse (10-2)
1991 Virginia Tech (5-6)

SEC
1999 Florida (9-4)
1998 Florida (10-2)
1996 Florida (12-1)
1994 Florida (10-2-1) (T)
1995 Florida (10-2-1)
1993 Florida (11-2)
1992 Florida (9-4)
1991 LSU (5-6)
1990 LSU (5-6)
1990 Florida (9-2)

The SEC is a better conference for football than the ACC, always has been. Despite playing in the abysmal ACC, FSU played a plethora of quality football teams from various conferences, to include the SEC to amass an amazing stretch of top 4 finishes, national championship appearances/wins and Heisman trophy winners. It happened. It's a fact. Why are we still discussing this?

FSU wasn't in the ACC in 1990 and 1991.
 
Why is this an analysis that an SEC schedule would have been a lot tougher for FSU, had FSU joined the SEC? Or said another way, FSU generally plays a charmin soft schedule, due mostly to a pathethic ACC matchups

That WAS the original premise. Or, at least, it was the second premise. The original premise is that FSU is smart to try and bolster their schedule by playing teams from the SEC. That the ACC gives FSU scant opportunity to have a credible schedule.

If you really want to do an analysis on one of the above points then compare the overall SEC with the overall ACC.

An SEC schedule would have been tougher for Florida State. Has that been disputed? Even the ACC schedule was tougher than the average charmin-soft SEC schedule, though.
 
Curious, as I honestly don't know....Were they ranked when you played them or at the end of the season?

Pass, that's sort of a shocking question. It matters on the day you play them as much as the end of the season. I'm thinking that most Gators are proud of how their team upset FSU at Doak in 2012 when we were highly ranked and it didn't matter that it was the end of the season, or the beginning, or the middle.
 
Pass, that's sort of a shocking question. It matters on the day you play them as much as the end of the season. I'm thinking that most Gators are proud of how their team upset FSU at Doak in 2012 when we were highly ranked and it didn't matter that it was the end of the season, or the beginning, or the middle.
Many teams are over-rated at the beginning of the season and end up being mediocre to bust.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT