What's the scoop on Callaway and Treon

[Gator22222]

Oh brother. Goss most certainly applies to public universities. Furthermore, UF is covered by the Dixon decision of the Fifth Circuit.

Lol. This started with you declaring that anyone who is suspended has already been judged guilty and has degenerated into you declaring UF in violation of the constitution.

That is quite a large handful of straws you have grasped there.

Get back to me when the Supreme Court orders UF to lift the suspension on Callaway.

 

[mnole03]

Lol. This started with you declaring that anyone who is suspended has already been judged guilty and has degenerated into you declaring UF in violation of the constitution.

That is quite a large handful of straws you have grasped there.

Get back to me when the Supreme Court orders UF to lift the suspension on Callaway.

No, this started because I correctly believe that suspending students from school pending an investigation is wrong.

 

[MJWilliamson]

No, this started because I correctly believe that suspending students from school pending an investigation is wrong.

I have to agree with nole here. Especially since there does not seem to be criminal charges pending.

 

[MJWilliamson]

It is common for the public to dislike successful defense lawyers. They often advocate for people that the public have deemed guilty. When the client walks free the public then turns its displeasure to the defense lawyer.

However, it is very uncommon for an inept defense lawyer to be disliked by the public. If the lawyer were inept then the client would be found guilty.

I can see why some might dislike Johnson, but it is unfathomable how anyone could label him inept. He is able to obtain a favorable outcome for a very high percentage of his clients.

Another lawyer that sometimes posts here shared this 2001 verdict against Huntley and his law firm why Huntley is not to be trusted.

A former Huntley employee brought civil charges against Huntley and his law firm, where he was found guilty of causing emotional distress to that person.

None of it means Huntley is a bad lawyer. But it does suggest he is not a very good man.

 

[instaGATOR]

No, this started because I correctly believe that suspending students from school pending an investigation is wrong.

Yeah, because at FSUcks they will not even have an investigation for over a year, and then they will drag it out until the player in question is already drafted into the NFL. The victim's rights are a far-away 2nd on their usual scale of just-us....
That's a sure-fire criminole solution alright....

 

[Gator22222]

I have to agree with nole here. Especially since there does not seem to be criminal charges pending.

This circles the argument back around to the beginning.

There are no criminal charges because the alleged victim decided to retain anonymity by going to the student conduct council instead of law enforcement. When a case comes before the student conduct council the Dean of Students must determine if the accused should be suspended pending the outcome of the case. According to the student conduct code section 6C1-4.044 subsection (1), a student would be suspended if they are deemed to pose a serious physical threat to himself or others or if a suspension is necessary to protect the health, safety, welfare or property of a student or members of the public.

http://regulations.ufl.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/4044.pdf

The Dean of Students suspended Callaway because he determined that he was a threat.

Mjnole03's argument is that this violates the Goss ruling and is therefore unconstitutional. However, the "Court ruled that in an emergency situation, students could be suspended immediately and a hearing held at a later date. The Court did not rule that students had a right to an attorney, to cross-examine witnesses, to call witnesses in their defense, or to a hearing before an impartial person."

http://www.phschool.com/atschool/ss_web_codes/supreme_court_cases/goss.html

An example of an acceptable reason to suspend a student before the hearing is if they are deemed a threat to themselves or others.

 

[MJWilliamson]

If the alleged victim goes to the DoS and SC instead of the police, and the DoC and SC thinks a crime has been committed, are they obligated to report the matter to the police?

 

[Gator22222]

If the alleged victim goes to the DoS and SC instead of the police, and the DoC and SC thinks a crime has been committed, are they obligated to report the matter to the police?

Florida does have mandatory reporting laws, but since most college students are 18 or over I am not sure if that applies to this situation.

Regardless, even if UF reported an alleged crime the police would not get involved unless the alleged victim chose to press charges.

If the alleged victim were to file charges her identity would be all over the internet the next day and life would become more challenging. However, student conduct council cases fall under the umbrella of laws that protect the records of students. This would prevent the details of the case from becoming public. The only person that has publicly talked about the fact that a student conduct case even exists is Callaway's attorney.

It's not hard to see why an alleged victim might choose to go before the student conduct council instead of the legal system.

 

[Gator22222]

If a student that has been accused of a violent crime is allowed to remain on campus then there is a possibility that the accused may harass the alleged victim or victimize another student. If that were to happen then UF would have a very difficult time explaining why they allowed the student to remain on campus.

It is certainly unfortunate for the accused to be suspended. I still think it is the correct thing to do and I know it is not unconstitutional.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Another lawyer that sometimes posts here shared this 2001 verdict against Huntley and his law firm why Huntley is not to be trusted.

A former Huntley employee brought civil charges against Huntley and his law firm, where he was found guilty of causing emotional distress to that person.

None of it means Huntley is a bad lawyer. But it does suggest he is not a very good man.

Gator22222, thanks for all the great analysis on the Callaway situation. Any comment about the above civil case as it pertains to Johnson?

 

[mnole03]

This circles the argument back around to the beginning.

There are no criminal charges because the alleged victim decided to retain anonymity by going to the student conduct council instead of law enforcement. When a case comes before the student conduct council the Dean of Students must determine if the accused should be suspended pending the outcome of the case. According to the student conduct code section 6C1-4.044 subsection (1), a student would be suspended if they are deemed to pose a serious physical threat to himself or others or if a suspension is necessary to protect the health, safety, welfare or property of a student or members of the public.

http://regulations.ufl.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/4044.pdf

The Dean of Students suspended Callaway because he determined that he was a threat.

Mjnole03's argument is that this violates the Goss ruling and is therefore unconstitutional. However, the "Court ruled that in an emergency situation, students could be suspended immediately and a hearing held at a later date. The Court did not rule that students had a right to an attorney, to cross-examine witnesses, to call witnesses in their defense, or to a hearing before an impartial person."

http://www.phschool.com/atschool/ss_web_codes/supreme_court_cases/goss.html

An example of an acceptable reason to suspend a student before the hearing is if they are deemed a threat to themselves or others.

This isn't an emergency situation. It's a PR decision. They've been on interim suspension for two semesters. In both this case and in the previous Treon case the allegations are of sexual assault. What threat is prevented by his going to class? The Dean of students has the power to restrict conduct and interaction. Not to mention that the alleged victim could get a sexual assault TRO. So there are other ways to avoid harassment. And the idea that student conduct hearings somehow maintain anonymity better than police investigations is ludicrous. As is the notion that you somehow know the alleged victim's motivations.

So the kid's been suspended for six months with no visible progress in the case and at least four months where the school didn't give him information at all on the matter. The suspension's been noted in his academic record. And going forward he will likely fall behind in academic progress metrics.

 

[Gator22222]

I have known a lot of lawyers of questionable character. It seems to be fairly common in the profession.

However, most of them were very good at their jobs.

 

[Gator22222]

This isn't an emergency situation. It's a PR decision. They've been on interim suspension for two semesters. In both this case and in the previous Treon case the allegations are of sexual assault. What threat is prevented by his going to class? He's certainly been on campus enough since January. The Dean of students has the power to restrict conduct and interaction. Not to mention that the alleged victim could get a sexual assault TRO. So there are other ways to avoid harassment. And the idea that student conduct hearings somehow maintain anonymity better than police investigations is ludicrous.

So the kid's been suspended for six months with no visible progress in the case and at least four months where the school didn't give him information at all on the matter. The suspension's been noted in his academic record. And going forward he will likely fall behind in academic progress metrics.

You must be a lot of fun at parties. LOL

You seem to be a little full of yourself when you think you alone can determine what circumstances would create an exception to Goss (if Goss even applied). Perhaps this information from Cornell University Law School will clarify it for you.

"Generally, notice and hearing should precede the student's removal from school, since the hearing may almost immediately follow the misconduct, but if prior notice and hearing are not feasible, as where the student's presence endangers persons or property or threatens disruption of the academic process, thus justifying immediate removal from school, the necessary notice and hearing should follow as soon as practicable. Pp. 577-584."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/419/565

It seems that you are alone among legal scholars in declaring the system unconstitutional.

A police report is a public record. It identifies the alleged victim. That information has famously found it's way to the public on numerous occasions. For example, the girl that accused Winston of rape was publically outed, vilified and eventually withdrew from school. The student conduct council certainly provides a better chance of remaining anonymous. You are still grasping at straws and alone in your flawed conclusions.

No visible progress? That would be because student privacy laws prevent the release of information to the public. What you mean is not visible to you. It is truly a shame that they are not giving you daily progress reports.

You claim "at least four months where the school didn't give him information at all on the matter." Please provide a link to that information.

 

[mnole03]

You must be a lot of fun at parties. LOL

You seem to be a little full of yourself when you think you alone can determine what circumstances would create an exception to Goss (if Goss even applied). Perhaps this information from Cornell University Law School will clarify it for you.

"Generally, notice and hearing should precede the student's removal from school, since the hearing may almost immediately follow the misconduct, but if prior notice and hearing are not feasible, as where the student's presence endangers persons or property or threatens disruption of the academic process, thus justifying immediate removal from school, the necessary notice and hearing should follow as soon as practicable. Pp. 577-584."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/419/565

It seems that you are alone among legal scholars in declaring the system unconstitutional.

A police report is a public record. It identifies the alleged victim. That information has famously found it's way to the public on numerous occasions. For example, the girl that accused Winston of rape was publically outed, vilified and eventually withdrew from school. The student conduct council certainly provides a better chance of remaining anonymous. You are still grasping at straws and alone in your flawed conclusions.

No visible progress? That would be because student privacy laws prevent the release of information to the public. What you mean is not visible to you. It is truly a shame that they are not giving you daily progress reports.

You claim "at least four months where the school didn't give him information at all on the matter." Please provide a link to that information.

Huntley Johnson said they didn't provide information on the matter. That was in March for an incident that allegedly happened in December.

You know about Rape Shield laws right? The victim's name and indentifying information isn't actually listed in a police report, nor was the police report the source of the leak in the Winston case. That would be the girl's sorority. I have no idea who Treon's accuser was, it wasn't in any of the police documentation I saw.

It's been six months. You act like this is an emergency situation or there's a clear threat of violence. It's not, and there's not. It's a PR reaction to the Baylor and FSU cases.

I don't know what the outcome of the investigation will be, but the school's use of interim suspension is absurd, and unjust.

Process in Title IX hearings is one of the hottest issues in legal academia right now. I can assure you, I'm hardly alone.

 

[Gator22222]

Huntley Johnson said they didn't provide information on the matter. That was in March for an incident that allegedly happened in December.

You know about Rape Shield laws right? The victim's name and indentifying information isn't actually listed in a police report, nor was the police report the source of the leak in the Winston case. That would be the girl's sorority. I have no idea who Treon's accuser was, it wasn't in any of the police documentation I saw.

It's been six months. You act like this is an emergency situation or there's a clear threat of violence. It's not, and there's not. It's a PR reaction to the Baylor and FSU cases.

I don't know what the outcome of the investigation will be, but the school's use of interim suspension is absurd, and unjust.

Process in Title IX hearings is one of the hottest issues in legal academia right now. I can assure you, I'm hardly alone.

I am sure that recent events at FSU, Tennessee and Baylor all play a part in this case. However, you are stating your opinion as a fact. You are asserting that Callaway poses no threat, but obviously UF administrators and lawyers who actually have all of the facts think otherwise. It is very arrogant of you to believe that you can come to a better conclusion than very experienced lawyers that have the benefit of actually knowing what is going on.

If you insist that you can make a better judgement than UF's lawyers without knowing any of the facts or talking to anyone involved, then there is really no point in furthering this conversation as you are simply being unreasonable.

I do believe that the Student Conduct Council and student privacy laws provide a much better chance of remaining anonymous than going to the local police and charging a star athlete with a crime. Recent history I am sure you are familiar with tells us that the first thing the police do is call the head coach. From that point on the athletic department is greatly influencing the case. Once charges are filed the number of people with information skyrockets. The police, state attorneys office, the athletic department....literally everyone gains access to a really juicy story. That definitely increases the odds of a leak. Again, you are welcome to disagree, but you can not prove me wrong.

Your opinion is not a fact nor is it the bottom line.

 

[TennesseeGator]

A couple months ago and 7 pages later I have read banter back and fourth from Nole fans and a bunch of other stuff

Still, what is the scoop on Treon and Antonio? Pretty much out for next season? Pretty much goners?

 

[bradleygator]

A couple months ago and 7 pages later I have read banter back and fourth from Nole fans and a bunch of other stuff

Still, what is the scoop on Treon and Antonio? Pretty much out for next season? Pretty much goners?

This is what I'm wondering. It don't sound good. Next time we see Callaway, he'll probably be all-SEC at Auburn.

 

[MJWilliamson]

This is what I'm wondering. It don't sound good. Next time we see Callaway, he'll probably be all-SEC at Auburn.

I am afraid he is gone. But with the new rules, he won't be able to go to an SEC team. OSU or maybe FSU would welcome him with open arms.

 

[mnole03]

I am sure that recent events at FSU, Tennessee and Baylor all play a part in this case. However, you are stating your opinion as a fact. You are asserting that Callaway poses no threat, but obviously UF administrators and lawyers who actually have all of the facts think otherwise. It is very arrogant of you to believe that you can come to a better conclusion than very experienced lawyers that have the benefit of actually knowing what is going on.

If you insist that you can make a better judgement than UF's lawyers without knowing any of the facts or talking to anyone involved, then there is really no point in furthering this conversation as you are simply being unreasonable.

I do believe that the Student Conduct Council and student privacy laws provide a much better chance of remaining anonymous than going to the local police and charging a star athlete with a crime. Recent history I am sure you are familiar with tells us that the first thing the police do is call the head coach. From that point on the athletic department is greatly influencing the case. Once charges are filed the number of people with information skyrockets. The police, state attorneys office, the athletic department....literally everyone gains access to a really juicy story. That definitely increases the odds of a leak. Again, you are welcome to disagree, but you can not prove me wrong.

Your opinion is not a fact nor is it the bottom line.

You've stated your opinion regarding a number of things as fact. I don't know what the alleged victim's motivation for not pursuing a criminal complaint. I'm guessing you don't either. I also don't know the motivation of the Dean of Students.

I do know that there is an interim suspension system with seemingly no limitations. One person can suspend you forever without any finding of fault. While suspended you can't take online classes or classes at another school that will count towards your degree. They can take away your student housing and torpedo your financial aid. They note the suspension on your academic transcript regardless of the outcome in your case.

And if administrators and lawyers have all the facts and they're so persuasive, why wouldn't they quickly hear and dispose of the case?

 

[kellylexy]

This is what I'm wondering. It don't sound good. Next time we see Callaway, he'll probably be all-SEC at Auburn.

, well done!

 

[Gator22222]

A couple months ago and 7 pages later I have read banter back and fourth from Nole fans and a bunch of other stuff

Still, what is the scoop on Treon and Antonio? Pretty much out for next season? Pretty much goners?

Callaway will be back in the Fall. Treon is gone.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Link?

 

[Gator22222]

Link?

I have lived in Gainesville my whole life. The duties of my job frequently require me to come into personal contact with administrators in the athletic department and many athletes. I also have friends high up in the local legal system that have knowledge of the issue.

The story was pretty much common knowledge here in Gainesville back in December before it hit the media.

Callaway will be back.

 

[MJWilliamson]

I have lived in Gainesville my whole life. The duties of my job frequently require me to come into personal contact with administrators in the athletic department and many athletes. I also have friends high up in the local legal system that have knowledge of the issue.

The story was pretty much common knowledge here in Gainesville back in December before it hit the media.

Callaway will be back.

I understand the story being known back in December. Me and a few other posters had some e-mail conversations about it back then.

That said, you are the first person that claims to "know" Callaway will be back. I hope it is true, but given that the anecdotal evidence is mostly to the contrary, I have my doubts. I hope to be wrong

 

[Gator22222]

Local sports talk radio program just announced that Callaway has just been cleared to resume classes and is now allowed on campus. He has also been allowed to resume using team facilities. However, he is still suspended from the team.

They did not announce this, but he will be reinstated to the team in the Fall.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Cool. Glad it turned out that way

 

[TennesseeGator]

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/florida-football/suspended-florida-wr-receives-good-news-on-status/

Callaway is now allowed to enroll in summer classes. Good deal. First step.

 

[instaGATOR]

TH is prolly headed to 'slow-learner / poor leader' prep....

I just hope that the rest of the team has learned from the recent mistakes of others.

 

[TennesseeGator]

TH is prolly headed to 'slow-learner / poor leader' prep....

I just hope that the rest of the team has learned from the recent mistakes of others.

I hope so as well. I know it is still early but the guys Mc has brought in seem to be quiet so far. Callaway had this but so far it's nothing criminal.

 

[RentechCEO]

I am pretty sure the young lady dropped the charges when it become clear that they had little merit

As did the lady in Winston's case. She stopped cooperating until Jameis became famous (pun intended) and there was money to be had.

 

[RentechCEO]

Please outline the investigative steps taken by TPD immediately after the victim's report. I'm dying to know your idea of an "investigation."

It won't take you long.

Just read the Detective's deposition in the lawsuit. Most police investigations are flawed. BTW this was before he even knew who is was. Rape kit taken and the investigation was started until the Aunt decided that Erica would not cooperate any more. Can't do much without the victim's help.

 

[MJWilliamson]

As did the lady in Winston's case. She stopped cooperating until Jameis became famous (pun intended) and there was money to be had.

No doubt that is why FSU, and the TPD were excoriated by the DA for the way they handled the case.

No doubt that is why FSU had to play nearly a million dollars in Title IX settlements.

Because the case had no merits.

 

[RentechCEO]

No doubt that is why FSU, and the TPD were excoriated by the DA for the way they handled the case.

No doubt that is why FSU had to play nearly a million dollars in Title IX settlements.

Because the case had no merits.

The case had little merit.

FSU did not pay Kinsman for TPD not doing a "good" investigation of the rape accusation. I'm surprised you misunderstand this. FSU paid because it was better economically and PR wise to settle. They were in a no win situation and they did not cross their t's and dot their i's Title IX wise (a law which has become a stupid monster when it was never intended to be used as such). Strange how FSU haters keep conflating what ever TPD did or not do with FSU. But that is what blind hatred causes. Poor thinking.

BTW, what you leave out about the DA is that the reason he did not charge Winston was because "there were problems with the accuser's story." This had nothing to do with TPD or FSU. The accusation was fraught with lies and contradictions. Willie would have lost again like he did with Travis Johnson and Dalvin Cook and he knew it.

 

[MJWilliamson]

The case had little merit.

Talk to the DA

FSU did not pay Kinsman for TPD not doing a "good" investigation of the rape accusation.

I did not claim that. Learn to read.

I'm surprised you misunderstand this.

I am NOT surprised you can't comprehend what I wrote

FSU paid because it was better economically and PR wise to settle. They were in a no win situation and they did not cross their t's and dot their i's Title IX wise (a law which has become a stupid monster when it was never intended to be used as such).

"We are settling this case for a record amount, never before paid in these types of case. Becasue we did nothing wrong and it makes snese to do so."

Strange how FSU haters keep conflating what ever TPD did or not do with FSU.

I think I made a distinction.

BTW, what you leave out about the DA is that the reason he did not charge Winston was because "there were problems with the accuser's story."

Not surprised you left the rest out. His said those holes could have been filled had the TPD and FSU done an effective initial investigation.

 

[Nolec]

Talk to the DA



I did not claim that. Learn to read.



I am NOT surprised you can't comprehend what I wrote



"We are settling this case for a record amount, never before paid in these types of case. Becasue we did nothing wrong and it makes snese to do so."



I think I made a distinction.



Not surprised you left the rest out. His said those holes could have been filled had the TPD and FSU done an effective initial investigation.

Total BS there. At no time did Meggs make any statement that even implied that the problems (holes) with EK's stories were connected or related to the TPD or FSU in any fashion. He made three observations under questions by the press about the TPD: 1) he said there was no athlete preferential treatment and 2) had his office been advised earlier they "might" have had access to better memory and more witnesses. No statement about FSU from him at all, 3) TPD fully , completely worked with the SA office " hand in glove".

 

[instaGATOR]

No statement about FSU from him at all, 3) TPD fully , completely worked with the SA office " hand in glove".

And IF that glove don't fit, then they were all NIT-WITS....

 

[GoFish2]

And IF that glove don't fit, then they were all NIT-WITS....

Serious question, how old are you? Can't be older than 12. Your parents shouldn't let you post on a grown-up website like this, probably see some inappropriate stuff.

 

[RentechCEO]

Talk to the DA



I did not claim that. Learn to read.



I am NOT surprised you can't comprehend what I wrote



"We are settling this case for a record amount, never before paid in these types of case. Becasue we did nothing wrong and it makes snese to do so."



I think I made a distinction.



Not surprised you left the rest out. His said those holes could have been filled had the TPD and FSU done an effective initial investigation.

"Talk to the DA" The media did and he declined to press charges. Case closed and as pointe out above it had little to do with TPD or FSU but the girl's phony story.

FSU had no jurisdiction since it happened off campus and properly turned it over to TPD immediately. Therefore, Meggs had no grounds to criticize FSU as the only investigation FSU COULD have done was the bogus Title IX one which Meggs would have no comment on. Please read up more on this.

I explained why FSU paid the settlement. Other schools have paid much more just not based on Title IX. See Colorado.

You are ignorant of many facts involving this but that seems to be the case with you generally. Why am I surprised?

 

[MJWilliamson]

Total BS there. At no time did Meggs make any statement that even implied that the problems (holes) with EK's stories were connected or related to the TPD or FSU in any fashion.

Wrong

 

[MJWilliamson]

"Talk to the DA" The media did and he declined to press charges. Case closed and as pointe out above it had little to do with TPD or FSU but the girl's phony story.

You morons can try and pretend FSU and TPD look good in all of this. But you are putting lipsitck on a pig

FSU had no jurisdiction since it happened off campus and properly turned it over to TPD immediately.

No doubt that is why the elected to pay out nearly a million dollars for a botched Title IX investigation. Because they had "no jurisdiction."

You guys are sad, sad, sad.