No. It's all relative. Our talent level being 'down' still puts us above all but 15-20 teams in the country. Houston on the other hand was a 5-loss program in a non-power 5 conference. Our 'bad' talent is wanted by everybody, go figure.
So much for Tom Herman...
- Thread starter PacoGator19
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No. It's all relative. Our talent level being 'down' still puts us above all but 15-20 teams in the country. Houston on the other hand was a 5-loss program in a non-power 5 conference. Our 'bad' talent is wanted by everybody, go figure.
The philosophy and system are the problem here. You shall see, wait until next year
I thought that might be your response.
BTW, we did not have SEC talent on offense when McElwain took over.
You keep saying that. Yet the offense works reasonably well with a competent QB
I thought that might be your response.
BTW, we did not have SEC talent on offense when McElwain took over.
Not at all true. I've posted this before but if you compare the 'loaded' offense Meyer inherited to the one Mac inherited and what they had done prior to both coaches coming to UF, Mac actually inherited more accomplished players just about everywhere but QB. Now I'll grant you QB makes a world of difference. And if you want to say the players Mac inherited from Muschamp were undeveloped and we had poor depth then I'd agree with that too. But the roster wasn't poor and definitely good enough to not have been as bad as we were. People only think Meyer inherited a loaded roster now after the fact because Meyer took that roster, developed them, and won big. Up until then excluding Leak they were just a bunch of highly rated players who hadn't really done nothing, no different that the roster under Mac. See below:
Roster Meyer inherited:
QB- Leak: 5,632 yards, 45 TD
RB- Wynn: 757 yards, 12 TD
WR- Jackson: 648 yards, 6 TD
WR- Baker: 619 yards, 6 TD
TE- Ingram: NA, was scout team QB
QB- Harris: 1,019 yards, 9 TD
RB- Taylor: 1,073 yards, 10 TD
WR- Robinson: 833 yards, 7 TD
WR- Fullwood: 326 yards, 2 TD
TE- McGee: 769 yards, 7 TD
And those guys put up those numbers despite playing in 3 different systems with bad OC's under Muschamp. And in some cases, the stats accumulated for the guys Mac inherited was done so in less time. For example, Taylor did what he did after two years, Wynn had been on campus 3 years before Meyer got here, same with Baker. The guys Mac inherited would have been even more productive in a better system. Can't have it both ways. If Muschamps systems sucked as much as we all believe, then those players had to have had some kind of talent to produce despite it, right? So I don't agree we didn't have talent. Poorly coached with lack of depth? Sure.
I thought that might be your response.
BTW, we did not have SEC talent on offense when McElwain took over.
Our offensive talent was bad when McE took over, but I bet he had better players on offense than Herman did when he took over Houston. UF basically averaged a top-5 class in the three years before McE, while Houston averaged about 65 (CSU averaged in the high '70s). It's true that the Gator classes were defense heavy and also that the offensive recruits we did get didn't live up to their reps. But guys like Lane, D-Rob, Fullwood, Worton, Brandon Powell, KT and Grier were better recruits than what Houston was pulling.
I don't know if Herman would have won the East with UF's 2015 roster, but I do know his offense looked a hell of a lot better than ours did against FSU.
I may be wrong but pretty sure Meyer inherited Andre Caldwell and Jemalle Cornelius in addition to those other players you mentioned. Also Meyer inherited more than 6 olineman. Also the offenses under Zook were pretty good. The offenses under Muschamp were horrendous. That makes a big difference as well. Meyer also inherited one of the best QBs in UF history in Chris Leak. Treon Harris is probably the worst starting QB UF has ever had since Kyle Morris. This is a big big deal.
I am not sure why people want to make these kinds of comparisons, when the schedule played by the two teams is completely different.
McElwain did not have SEC caliber talent on offense when he first came aboard. Period.
And then REALITY strikes home with a resounding BOOM!!!
TH, comimg in as the part-time backup QB for 2 years in a row:
Harris - 174 of 346, 50.3%, for 2,695 yds, 15.5 yds/comp, 18 TD's, 10 Ints, QBR 132.2
Del-Apple - 58.8%, 1,468 yds, 124 of 211, 11.8 yds/comp, 10 TD's, 6 Ints - QBR 127.2
The only thing that the 2 Claribel's have that's better is the completion %, but since they throw so many 2-8 yard passes, that's not really a plus imoho.
Define worst, because I must not know what it means....
I am not sure why you insist on comparing the offensive talent McElwain inherited compared to what Meyer inherited?
My contention is that McElwain did not inherit SEC caliber talent on offense. Very few people dispute that. He started what, two and sometimes three true freshman on the OL? He had to start a red shirt freshman at QB. There were no real play makers at WR that Muschamp left him. The backs have been decent, especially Scarlett. But that is about it.
Because you and many others claim that Meyer inherited a 'loaded' roster while what Mac inherited wasn't even SEC caliber.
The information I posted doesn't agree with you. If these players were not SEC caliber, and they played in bad offensive systems for 3 years, then how did they manage to have more on-field accomplishments that the bunch that Meyer inherited. Luck?
I only listed the starters in the skill group. If you want to do the rest of the research, feel free.
And again, I've already said that Leak>>> whatever Mac inherited and that Meyer inherited more depth, but that's where the drop-off ends. And you're making my point for me. Zook's offenses were good, Mushamps weren't. Muschamp's group also had to deal with terrible QB play and constantly changing OC's and yet on the whole those skill players still had more on-field accomplishments everywhere but QB. That couldn't have happened if they're as terrible as y'all claim they are. They were poorly coached, they didn't lack talent.
Mac inherited an awful QB and oline situation. Maybe Mac inherited a decent RB and TE in Taylor and McGee.
Look how many of Mac's recruits on the offensive side of the ball are already starting in just his 2nd year. I think that explains the lack of talent he inherited. Hell we don't even have a QB or RB on the roster that was recruited by Muschamp. How man olineman are even left on the team that were recruited by Muschamp? 2?? This is just Mac's 2nd year with the program. There should be many more players contributing on offense from a Muschamp recruiting classthan there is. It's really bad. In a season and a half all our QBs and RBs are players that Mac has had to bring on. None are Muschamps. That is a disaster.
Look how many of Mac's recruits on the offensive side of the ball are already starting in just his 2nd year. I think that explains the lack of talent he inherited. Hell we don't even have a QB or RB on the roster that was recruited by Muschamp. How man olineman are even left on the team that were recruited by Muschamp? 2?? This is just Mac's 2nd year with the program. There should be many more players contributing on offense from a Muschamp recruiting classthan there is. It's really bad. In a season and a half all our QBs and RBs are players that Mac has had to bring on. None are Muschamps. That is a disaster.
They were more than decent. They accomplished more in a shittier situation than a bunch of guys who eventually won us a title with Leak being the obvious exception. And I'd argue pound for pound Grier was more talented than Leak, though he obviously never got to have the accomplishments because of his situation.
Our QB situation behind Leak wasn't all rosy either. We had Gavin Dickey who much like Treon was a 5'9 athlete who alternated between WR, QB, and return man and then a true freshman Josh Portis who ended up transferring. Seems loaded for sure. Like I said before, the perception about the rosters are largely myth, half-truths at best, with a lot of revisionist history.
Our QB situation behind Leak wasn't all rosy either. We had Gavin Dickey who much like Treon was a 5'9 athlete who alternated between WR, QB, and return man and then a true freshman Josh Portis who ended up transferring. Seems loaded for sure. Like I said before, the perception about the rosters are largely myth, half-truths at best, with a lot of revisionist history.
And yes I agree the roster SHOULD have been better than it was. But keep in mind a lot of things happened after that season that left us where we were not all of it was due to Muschamp's incompetence. DJ Humphries unexpectedly went pro as did Tyler Moore and then we lost some guys to medical hardships. So yea...no one expected Mac to win any kinds of championships or be lighting up scoreboards, that isn't the argument. Just please stop this myth that he was left with absolutely nothing and because of that couldn't do better than 100+ in offense. It ain't true.
The issue is the guy he has dialing up plays. Nuss coordinated an offense ranked 104th the year before coming to UF. Everybody said Michigan didn't have any talent either. Then Harbaugh comes in and completely turns the offense around. Funny how that works huh?
The issue is the guy he has dialing up plays. Nuss coordinated an offense ranked 104th the year before coming to UF. Everybody said Michigan didn't have any talent either. Then Harbaugh comes in and completely turns the offense around. Funny how that works huh?
I'm not a huge Nussmeir guy but to be fair to him wasn't he only at Michigan for 1 year? Brady Hoke should get the blame for Michigan's offense not Nussmeir. Just like I would put the blame of our offense on Muschamp and not Roper.
And then REALITY strikes home with a resounding BOOM!!!
TH, comimg in as the part-time backup QB for 2 years in a row:
Harris - 174 of 346, 50.3%, for 2,695 yds, 15.5 yds/comp, 18 TD's, 10 Ints, QBR 132.2
Del-Apple - 58.8%, 1,468 yds, 124 of 211, 11.8 yds/comp, 10 TD's, 6 Ints - QBR 127.2
The only thing that the 2 Claribel's have that's better is the completion %, but since they throw so many 2-8 yard passes, that's not really a plus imoho.
Define worst, because I must not know what it means....
Del Rio is better than Treon, I'd say much better.
But players change, results stay relatively the same, everyone keeps blaming the players. Thats the common theme.
Yes. But it only took Harbaugh 1 year to turn that same offense around. With a guy that got benched at Iowa no less. I've seen enough from Mac to know that he gets it on offense, his OC is the problem.
I think we should be sending LSU letters as to Nuss' greatness and he should be their next head coach.....
The problem is MeatChicken actually got WORSE under Nuss. That is saying a lot.
Other than '09 and '10 when Saban had 7 NFL OL and 3 NFL RB, when exactly has this offense worked well?
We are a much better offense than last year. Not what we want to see but the line is better and we have good/great talent at the skill positions. We are actually throwing the ball DOWN THE FIELD. I don't know how good we will be but we are much better than we were last year.
Right. That's why I disagreed with Michi.
When it comes to scheme we run a spread for all intents and purposes. Where we lack is in talent in some areas (QB and oline) and then play calling. I have zero problems with Mac's system.
I watched the NC game in 2012 again last week late at night... they were running the exact same plays, shifts, formations everything as we do now... except with Eddie Lacy, Yeldon Cooper and other NFL backs, wideouts, TE's and lineman.. even a back up NFL QB
The schedule is different but they did play a common opponent, a good one. Herman blew their doors off while we struggled to string first downs together. Do you think Herman inherited SEC caliber offensive talent?
Michi will appreciate this so called excuse, but that argument is one we have generally scoffed at, specifically in regards to FSU fans regarding the 90s.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the offensive scheme or philosophy that we use right now. That isn't the issue.
You won't blame the talent, HC, OC or scheme. So tell me, why does our offense suck against a very easy schedule this far.
To be fair, conversely, you blame all of it.
So when we run the glorified clipboard holder out there at QB again next year how will it be any different??
But the offense has sucked. So the guy blaming everyone is inherently more reasonable than the guy blaming nobody.
As usual you haven't read one word I've said about the offense and the issues with it. You have your agenda and that is what your going with no matter what. It's like talking to a wall.
My statement was a general one. If you see yourself in it, that is your business. You also used the incorrect form of "You're."
It was a general comment directed at who? Because I have seen nobody say the offense is fine. So no it wasn't a general statement. It was intended for somebody. But again not 1 person has made the comment that the offense is good or has no issues.
