SEC In Bowls

[ocalaman]

Starting off horribly. 1-4 after 12/29. The only win is by a 6-7 Miss. St. team that was lucky to beat Miami of Ohio! Looking more & more like it's Alabama and the little 13. The quality depth that made the SEC the best conference in the nation over the last 20 years is gone. The weakness of the SEC has become more & more prevalent over the last 3-4 years and now the West doesn't look so good either. I'm a lifelong SEC guy, but have to say that it looks like the Big 10 and even the ACC are better conferences this year.

 

[46885]

The teams losing are unranked and underdogs.

 

[Gator Fever]

Damn the SEC is struggling with non Power 5 teams also. The ACC has handled the SEC all season. I know Bama has been an exception this year but I would love to see Washington add them to the list.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Down year for the SEC

 

[ocalaman]

The teams losing are unranked and underdogs.

You missed my point. In the past it didn't matter whether an SEC team was unranked or not favored in a bowl. We had the depth to win 75% of our bowl games almost every year. That's no longer the case. The SEC no longer has quality teams in the middle of the pack and even the upper echelon, except for Bama, is not up to our standards. We have slipped as a conference the last few years and it's obvious when you look at the Top 15 and see only Alabama and Auburn there, and I really don;t think Auburn is one of the 15 best teams in the country. We just aren't the SEC of 8-10 years ago anymore.

 

[Gator Fever]

I wonder why that is? The SEC is still dominating recruiting like it has in recent years and players put in the NFL I think (not 100% sure on the NFL numbers however).

 

[46885]

the teams that just lost these games just aren't very good this year, the SEC doing what they have every year is just showing how hard it is, and just how much everyone else hates it.

 

[kellylexy]

I wonder why that is? The SEC is still dominating recruiting like it has in recent years and players put in the NFL I think (not 100% sure on the NFL numbers however).

I have had this debate for many many years with people and I will tell you my opinion on the matter. Many people go along with the saying "it is not the x's and o's but the Jimmy's and the Joe's". I think that is a false narrative on many fronts, however I will focus on the crux of my position. Head coaches are critical. They make so many decisions in regards to picking their staffs, program infrastructure, vision, etc. Just getting a top ten class every year only gets you in the 'potential' conversation for conference and national championships. The rest comes from the head coach and his overall program. Can he game plan, coach during game day, motivate his players and staff, evaluate his staff, etc etc on a consistent basis?

To your question....the coaching in the SEC is subpar minus Saban. Franklin and Richt were two of the better coaches that have recently left the SEC (yes, I know Richt never got over the hump, but he at least put up consistent ~10 win seasons and could win the bulk of his ooc games). Who is there besides Saban? Miles got canned. Jury is out on Mac. HF at Ole Miss looked good early, but the skeletons are falling out of the closet. Mullen is decent. Muschamp just got recycled from UF to USCe. Again, I would take the overall coaching in the ACC and I do not think it is much of a debate sans Saban.

 

[Gator Fever]

Yep but it seems 3 of those coaches in the West had a lot of praise until their recent slumps - Freeze, Mullen and Sumlin. People did seem to be skeptical of Malzahn doing good long term however even right after their Championship game appearance.

 

[oozie7]

I wonder why that is? The SEC is still dominating recruiting like it has in recent years and players put in the NFL I think (not 100% sure on the NFL numbers however).

That's part of the problem. SEC teams have been putting a crazy amount of players in the draft the past couple years and eventually that kills depth. Especially when you have record numbers of underclassmen declaring. The only team it hasn't affected is Bama because they've had the #1 class for damn near a decade straight and they oversign. So because of all those losses to the draft teams are basically starting from scratch every year and that's hard to do no matter who the coach is.

 

[oozie7]

And the coaching in the SEC is not that different than it was when they were dominating. Saban has been there all along, Miles has been there all along, Mullen has been there all along, Sumlin has been there all along, Freeze is the best coach Ole Miss has had in forever, etc. Gene Chizik won a national title at Auburn and he's not a better coach than Malzahan who is at Auburn now. But why did he win a title? Talent.

There were only two elite coaches in the SEC during that decade of dominance...Saban and Meyer. The rest like Miles and Richt were above average coaches at best but they always had stacked rosters. But that advantage goes away when you're recycling huge parts of your roster every season like a lot of the top SEC teams have had to do as of late.

 

[TexanNole]

I wonder why that is? The SEC is still dominating recruiting like it has in recent years and players put in the NFL I think (not 100% sure on the NFL numbers however).

imo, it is the downgrade of the coaching staffs and poor QB play in the SEC.

 

[kellylexy]

And the coaching in the SEC is not that different than it was when they were dominating. Saban has been there all along, Miles has been there all along, Mullen has been there all along, Sumlin has been there all along, Freeze is the best coach Ole Miss has had in forever, etc. Gene Chizik won a national title at Auburn and he's not a better coach than Malzahan who is at Auburn now. But why did he win a title? Talent.

There were only two elite coaches in the SEC during that decade of dominance...Saban and Meyer. The rest like Miles and Richt were above average coaches at best but they always had stacked rosters. But that advantage goes away when you're recycling huge parts of your roster every season like a lot of the top SEC teams have had to do as of late.

Evolution. Coaches need to do this or they downgrade. Miles is the latest. Malzahn and Sumlin came close to following Miles. Muschamp is still Muschamp, etc. Chizik caught lightning in a bottle with Cam and a mature team. After that season his 'vision' for a program was quickly exposed and he was out on his rear shortly after '10.

imo, it is the downgrade of the coaching staffs and poor QB play in the SEC.

Agreed about them both. Even some of the better Qbs did not develop and were wash outs or mediocre if they played. LSU, Auburn, UF, USCe, etc...Whose job is it to recruit, coach, develop, etc?

 

[Gator Fever]

Well it wont be a total joke at least. I really don't care about this conference bowl mess much anyway and would love for Washington to beat Bama so people could really talk about it.

 

[Countygator]

Last year the sec was 9-2. Conference is the weakest its been in 25 years. The early defections and poor qb play biggest culprit.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Looks like 5-5 now

W: LSU, Bama, UGA, UT, MSU
L: UK, SC, Arky, A&M, Vandy

Remaining: UF, Auburn, Bama

http://www.cbssports.../postseason/16/

 

[Gator Fever]

Looks like 5-5 now

W: LSU, Bama, UGA, UT, MSU
L: UK, SC, Arky, A&M, Vandy

Remaining: UF, Auburn, Bama

http://www.cbssports.../postseason/16/

Hopefully the SEC pulls a 7-6 record with Bama being the loss.

 

[46885]

Auburn will end up being the defining team to make it a winning record, we should probably win but even then we are still a part of it too to define the end

 

[fsu939913]

I think the ACC was the best conference this year. The SEC has been slipping the past 5 yrs or so but dang they were dominant for so long it was bound to happen. Give it a few years and the SEC will be back. They need better QB's in their league. Thats a big difference right now.

 

[oozie7]

How have they been slipping the last 5 years when they just set a record for most bowl wins by a conference last year? I mean I know y'all have wanted the SEC to fall off for that long, but your wishes ain't reality. It was down this year, stop trying to make more of it than it is.

 

[METSWIN]

oozie, I still think the SEC is the best/most entertaining conference in the country but when there are 589 bowl games the total # of wins by a conference is a little misleading.

 

[oozie7]

Ok but then if that's the case that means other conferences have the same chance to rack up bowl wins. Why haven't they done it?

 

[ocalaman]

6-6 for this year's SEC is respectable. With Alabama being the only team in the conference to have fewer than 4 losses, there's no doubt this was a down year for the best conference in the NCAA over the past 20 years. Some say the Big 10 was the best conference because they had 4 teams in the Top 10. I've thought that myself, but with 3 of those 4 teams losing their bowl games, plus the fact that 4 teams didn't qualify for a bowl (the SEC only had 2 non-qualifiers), plus the fact that they went 3-7 overall in bowl games, tarnishes that perception. The ACC probably ended the year as the best overall conference, with an 8-3 bowl record (3 non-qualifiers), a team playing for the national title and probably 7 teams that will finish in the Top 20. But having 1 off year, especially after the SEC dominance in bowl games last year, does not mean that the SEC is still not the most consistent conference. It was a down year, though.

 

[METSWIN]

I think the ACC did? I honestly don't care too much. I care about FSU and winning the state. Mission accomplished....again. The bowl season has just become a joke to me. When 5-6 teams are playing in bowl games it tells me college football has become a participation, rec type league. My kids 10U select softball competition is tougher and less rewarding for mediocrity.

 

[93nole99]

6-6 for this year's SEC is respectable. With Alabama being the only team in the conference to have fewer than 4 losses, there's no doubt this was a down year for the best conference in the NCAA over the past 20 years. Some say the Big 10 was the best conference because they had 4 teams in the Top 10. I've thought that myself, but with 3 of those 4 teams losing their bowl games, plus the fact that 4 teams didn't qualify for a bowl (the SEC only had 2 non-qualifiers), plus the fact that they went 3-7 overall in bowl games, tarnishes that perception. The ACC probably ended the year as the best overall conference, with an 8-3 bowl record (3 non-qualifiers), a team playing for the national title and probably 7 teams that will finish in the Top 20. But having 1 off year, especially after the SEC dominance in bowl games last year, does not mean that the SEC is still not the most consistent conference. It was a down year, though.

Good points. In addition to the bowl results, in 2016 the ACC was 9-4 over-all against the SEC, and 6-2 against the big 10. Notably...the ACC was a perfect 5-0 against the Big 10 East...lauded as the best division in CFB...prior to the bowls that is.

 

[MJWilliamson]

I think the ACC was the best conference this year.

Based entirely on bowl records, it would be hard to argue with this

 

[MJWilliamson]

Good points. In addition to the bowl results, in 2016 the ACC was 9-4 over-all against the SEC, and 6-2 against the big 10. Notably...the ACC was a perfect 5-0 against the Big 10 East...lauded as the best division in CFB...prior to the bowls that is.

All facts. But I find it incredibly amusing that one of the original "hey, conferences don't play against each other" proponent would make this argument.

I guess conference pride is not important. Until it is.

 

[METSWIN]

MJ, while you are busy pointing fingers didn't you say something along the lines of you had lost a lot of interest in college football because of the continued off field issues surrounding the sport? If that wasn't you or exactly what you said my apologies but I swear it came up during a gymnastics conversation last off season.

 

[93nole99]

All facts. But I find it incredibly amusing that one of the original "hey, conferences don't play against each other" proponent would make this argument.

I guess conference pride is not important. Until it is.

Agreed 100% that how well your "conference" does makes no difference in a team's individual performance. Conferences do not play each other. I wasn't making an argument, just added the regular season numbers to the point a UF fan made. Here's why:

It's fun now because of how important it seemed for weaker teams to glom on to their conference success for individual validation. Been happening here and in the SEC for years, and this season with the Big 10. Tired of listening and reading the nonsense...but now it's quiet. So who do all those "conference" fans claim is best now? I am enjoying this mostly for who is not capable of making the claims...

Losers typically complain that bowls don't matter...so I added the regular season to the mix. I won't be here claiming the ACC is college football's best conference if Clemson beats 'Bama. I am in the minority though. You can bet there are plenty of "conference fans" who will claim "best".

 

[MJWilliamson]

MJ, while you are busy pointing fingers didn't you say something along the lines of you had lost a lot of interest in college football because of the continued off field issues surrounding the sport? If that wasn't you or exactly what you said my apologies but I swear it came up during a gymnastics conversation last off season.

I did say something similar. I am not sure the two situations are comparable though.

College football is of less interest to me than it used to be. For a variety of reasons. That does not mean it is of no interest. Which is what you seem to posit should be my stance.

nole and igloo, (among others, you probably being one), on the other hand, spent a LOT of time lecturing us that conferences don't play each other, and that conference pride was stupid. Yet here they both are, showing us that it does matter, when they like the result.

BTW, I have no problem with people beating their chest about the ACC vs the SEC in regular season games and bowl games. It is a record for which to be proud, given how unusual that outcome.

It is just amusing when it comes from those two.

 

[METSWIN]

I hardly lecture. I have lost interest in doing that sort of thing.

 

[hardliner]

The coaching and commitment to winning ($$$) is what set the sec apart. The talent gap, especially to the acc was never as great as people thought. Now the sec has a bunch of average coaches and one dominant team.

Does anyone really think Ed Orgeron is going to be able to beat Saban? Mullen treading water at a terrible program. Ole Miss flew too close to the sun and is getting ready to be hammered. Texas AM is always a tease.

 

[TennesseeGator]

Coaching and QB play are down compared to years past.

At one-time you had Saban, Meyer, Richt, Spurrier, and Miles (at his peak) plus you had guys that are now head coaches that were holding coordinator positions. Mullen, Strong, Muschamp, Smart, Malzhan, and others for example.

I know guys like McCarron, Murray, Leak, Campbell, Tebow, Manzel, Bray, Wallace, and others may not have been NFL talent but they were real good college QB's. Then there was Cam Newton and other great NFL QB's that passed through the league over the years.

When Chad Kelly and Josh Dobbs are the preseason All Conference QB's it just shows that QB play is down in the league.

It runs in cycles. Right now the SEC is somewhat down but I don't expect it to last for long.

 

[fsu939913]

All facts. But I find it incredibly amusing that one of the original "hey, conferences don't play against each other" proponent would make this argument.

I guess conference pride is not important. Until it is.

I hate conference pride and think its stupid.... But perception is worth money. The perceived best conferences get more money in tv deals.

 

[MJWilliamson]

I hardly lecture. I have lost interest in doing that sort of thing.

Yet there you were, attempting to lecture me.

The memes sometimes write themselves

 

[Michi-Gator]

Coaching and QB play are down compared to years past.

At one-time you had Saban, Meyer, Richt, Spurrier, and Miles (at his peak) plus you had guys that are now head coaches that were holding coordinator positions. Mullen, Strong, Muschamp, Smart, Malzhan, and others for example.

I know guys like McCarron, Murray, Leak, Campbell, Tebow, Manzel, Bray, Wallace, and others may not have been NFL talent but they were real good college QB's. Then there was Cam Newton and other great NFL QB's that passed through the league over the years.

When Chad Kelly and Josh Dobbs are the preseason All Conference QB's it just shows that QB play is down in the league.

It runs in cycles. Right now the SEC is somewhat down but I don't expect it to last for long.

But still the down SEC will more than double the next closest conference in first round NFL picks. The overall talent in the sEC is still light years ahead of any other conference, maybe just not at QB

 

[METSWIN]

Weak

 

[Dr. Nole]

Weak

(Here's where he will tell you "Bless your heart")

 

[TennesseeGator]

But still the down SEC will more than double the next closest conference in first round NFL picks. The overall talent in the sEC is still light years ahead of any other conference, maybe just not at QB

That's true but I guess when the talent is spread out amongst the 14 teams.

In my area (Memphis) it usually produces the highest rate of D1 and overall college athletes in the state. Some years the area teams represent great in the state playoffs. This past season was one of those years. However some years there isn't more than a handful of teams that advance far in the playoffs despite having quality talent in the area. Some years it's spread too thin. Some years it aligns and the occasional teams get a large percentage of the talented players.

On another note, goes to show how important the QB position is.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Weak

Indeed, if that is all you got.

Don't be such a baby. Own it.